So? Peta's never heard of realistic training?

Semper gumby · 07-18-2008, 06:20

-Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasen't this been happening in Army school for some time now? I wonder what happened to the "distraught soldier" who called PETA.

From CNN:

Army will shoot live pigs for medical training

- Soldiers shoot pigs to care for their wounds in preparation for Iraq,
Army says
-Training is done with a license, under supervision from veterinarian
-PETA says they were notified by a "distraught" soldier
-Soldier said plan was to shoot pigs with M4 carbines and M16 rifles

HONOLULU (AP) -- The Army says it's critical to saving the lives of wounded soldiers. Animal-rights activists call the training cruel and outdated.
Despite opposition by the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, the Army is moving forward with its plan to shoot live pigs and treat their gunshot wounds in a medical trauma exercise Friday at Schofield Barracks for soldiers headed to Iraq.
Maj. Derrick Cheng, spokesman for the 25th Infantry Division, said the training is being conducted under a U.S. Department of Agriculture license and the careful supervision of veterinarians and a military Animal Care and Use Committee.
"It's to teach Army personnel how to manage critically injured patients within the first few hours of their injury," Cheng said.
The soldiers are learning emergency lifesaving skills needed on the battlefield when there are no medics, doctors or facility nearby, he said.
PETA, however, said there are more advanced and humane options available, including high-tech human simulators. In a letter, PETA urged the Army to end all use of animals, "as the overwhelming majority of North American medical schools have already done."
"Shooting and maiming pigs is outdated as Civil War rifles," said Kathy Guillermo, director of PETA's Laboratory Investigations Department.
The Norfolk, Virginia-based group demanded the exercise be halted after it was notified by a "distraught" soldier from the unit, who disclosed a plan to shoot the animals with M4 carbines and M16 rifles.
"There's absolutely no reason why they have to shoot live pigs," PETA spokeswoman Holly Beal said.
The bloody exercise, she said, is difficult for soldiers because they sometimes associate the animals with their own pet dogs.
Cheng said the exercise is conducted in a controlled environment with the pigs anesthetized the entire time. He had "no doubt whatsoever" in the effectiveness of the instruction, which he called the best option available at the base.

**Pete** · 07-18-2008, 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semper gumby

-....."Shooting and maiming pigs is outdated as Civil War rifles," said Kathy Guillermo, director of PETA's Laboratory Investigations Department......

Guess she ain't seen what a .577 - 554 gr rifle/musket round would do to a thigh bone.

Yes, depending on who made it they vary from 551 - 661 grs and .571 - .577 diameter - mostly.

Ret10Echo · 07-18-2008, 07:10

OK, good grief...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semper gumby

-"There's absolutely no reason why they have to shoot live pigs," PETA spokeswoman Holly Beal said..

Yes there is...because shooting dead pigs would be a waste of time....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semper gumby

-"because they sometimes associate the animals with their own pet dogs.

If your dog looks like a pig, then you got more troubles than that...

**Kyobanim** · 07-18-2008, 07:19

Quote:

Soldiers shoot pigs to care for their wounds in preparation for Iraq

I think that shooting pigs is very appropriate. Sounds like realistic training.

**The Reaper** · 07-18-2008, 08:06

Clearly, the complainant hasn't thought through what will happen if they are shot and the medic is inexperienced, and the PETAhead has no knowledge of anyone associated with the military who might potentially need the services of a competent combat medic. Maybe if it was Holly's brother shot and bleeding out while the medic blew chunks and tried to figure out what to do she might care.

Why is it inhumane to shoot an anesthetized pig, and then kill them, but fine to hammer them to death without any anesthesia in a slaughterhouse? Do they think pigs live a Disney like existence with the other animals?

TR

Books · 07-18-2008, 08:39

PETA, PETA, PETA (shaking head sadly). . . you bloody effing morons. Many medical schools have already rid themselves of this evil practice? Well, perhaps that's why I taught so many clueless medical students the basics of trauma when I worked my rotations. Those grass-eating #$%^&. Oh, did I say that?

Sten · 07-18-2008, 08:41

Can we shoot PETA members instead of pigs? Kind of a win win

.

**Dan** · 07-18-2008, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sten

Can we shoot PETA members instead of pigs? Kind of a win win

.

It might be more realistic live tissue training, especially because:

Quote:

Shooting and maiming pigs is outdated as Civil War rifles

FMF DOC · 07-18-2008, 10:55

Having been through this training it is by far the best and most realistic I ever went through. But we all know PETA don't give a damn how many lives this training has helped save and especially when the complaint comes from a serviceman. Gives them all the more ammo to cause us problems...

Ret10Echo · 07-18-2008, 11:10

Those herds of pigs would be dancing and frolicking in the woods, perhaps dressed in snazzy little grass skirts...if it weren't for all these humans making a mess of the natural habitat. I mean waaaaay back when there were herds of pigs that would stretch on to the horizon. And they were happy too...very happy. In fact happy as a pig in.......

ZonieDiver · 07-18-2008, 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Why is it inhumane to shoot an anesthetized pig, and then kill them, but fine to hammer them to death without any anesthesia in a slaughterhouse?

TR

I'm pretty sure that PETA wants to do away with this, too. In fact, I am pretty sure they want us all eating "tofu pork" asap.

mac117 · 07-18-2008, 15:14

I have always favored using deathrow inmates and hardened criminals, and now we have a new set of prisoners at our disposal. If they survive, parole.....if they are a repeat offender....recycle back to the lab!

I always felt sorry for the kaprines.....even though they reaked to high heaven! Pigs should be barbequed....not used as a training aid!

**Roguish Lawyer** · 07-18-2008, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sten

Can we shoot PETA members instead of pigs? Kind of a win win

.

Beat me to it!

Surgicalcric · 07-18-2008, 15:22

ALL I am gonna say about this subject for those posting in the future, be careful about whats posted in regards to this subject. It is a very touchy situation right now, even at the schoolhouse...

These knuckleheads are at their old tricks there again too.

Noone has said anything out of line yet, but just be careful.

That is all...back to the PETA bashing.

Crip

nmap · 07-18-2008, 16:06

As a preface, I'll freely admit that I consume lots of bacon.

So I'm not on PETA's side.

If PETA succeeded - and I hope they do not - would it be possible for medics to get trauma training in big-city emergency rooms? In San Antonio, we get quite a number of gunshot and knife wounds. For example, a 7-month old child received a gunshot wound to the stomach from a .22 cal rifle in a drive-by shooting.

Or do the various miscreants use weapons that don't create trauma typical of the battlefield?