Why is SF NG and not ER?

[PSM]

I can't figure out how to word this question online to get a good answer.

I ask in large part out of curiosity, and because my son is trying to decide between AD and NG or ER after college.

Pat

[RichL025]

What do you mean by "ER" - do you mean "AR" as in "Army Reserve"?

If that is what you are asking, then the reason is that in the mid (?early?) 90s the army re-organized the "reserve component" (AR and NG) so that the bulk (if not the totality) of the combat arms units were NG (I think there were political reasons for this. Also, combart arms units are better organized to do things like civil defense, riot control, natural disaster response, etc)

Until then there _were_ two army reserve SF groups - the 11th and the 12th.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by RichL025

What do you mean by "ER" - do you mean "AR" as in "Army Reserve"?

If that is what you are asking, then the reason is that in the mid (?early?) 90s the army re-organized the "reserve component" (AR and NG) so that the bulk (if not the totality) of the combat arms units were NG (I think there were political reasons for this. Also, combart arms units are better organized to do things like civil defense, riot control, natural disaster response, etc)

Until then there _were_ two army reserve SF groups - the 11th and the 12th.

Correct. In my day it was Enlisted Reserve.

My understanding is that NG is still under the command of the states governors.

Pat

[RichL025]

It is- the national guard falls under the command of the states except when they are "federalized" (combat deployments, national emergencies, etc).

My personal hypothesis as to why NG got all the combat arms units is that the governors thought owning a tank brigade was much sexier than a water-purification unit....

[PSM]

Originally Posted by RichL025

My personal hypothesis as to why NG got all the combat arms units is that the governors thought owning a tank brigade was much sexier than a water-purification unit....

Worked well in Louisiana, didn't it?

That's a joke, guys! No salmonella laced tomatoes, please.

Pat

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by PSM

I can't figure out how to word this question online to get a good answer.

I ask in large part out of curiosity, and because my son is trying to decide between AD and NG or ER after college.

Pat

Sounds like a question only he can answer.

As was posted above there are no longer SF Reserves and not every state has SF NG.

Then there that pesky little thing called the Special Forces "Q" Course to make it past.

Anyone can talk about joining SF, few actually make it.


Team Sergeant

[sofmed]

Having originally come from Co A, 1st BN, 20th SFG (ABN) out of Auburn, AL (same unit as Crip) I can say I asked the same question initially.

It has been stated already and I will simply confirm the issue as being spot on...the governors of each state have a valuable resource from which to pull experienced personnel in the event of a massive natural disaster, or even an uprising/riot situation. When the local SWAT and state police are unable to contain a situation or specialized equipment that only the NG owns is needed, viola!. Mobilize the NG unit.

Also, the NG SF units have been utilized in some states (along with some smaller elements of the active components) in aid of FBI and DEA for drug interdiction (CONUS) and anti-terrorist ops over the years (also CONUS), mainly as advisors in language skills and intelligence gathering and interpretation. That last bit has been declassified and can be read about in "Masters of Chaos" by Linda Robinson, as well as others.

Wishing you the best!

Mick

[PSM]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Sounds like a question only he can answer.

As was posted above there are no longer SF Reserves and not every state has SF NG.

Then there that pesky little thing called the Special Forces "Q" Course to make it past.

Anyone can talk about joining SF, few actually make it.


Team Sergeant

My son's not talking about SF, just NG in general. I was just interested in how the Reserve and Guard got re-organized over the years and how it effected Group Command to have to deal with the various states governors.

Pat

[T-REX]

My son's not talking about SF, just NG in general. I was just interested in how the Reserve and Guard got re-organized over the years and how it effected Group Command to have to deal with the various states governors.

Pat

__________________________________________________ _____________

Pat,

The re-organization of the NG and Reserves took place during budget cuts and military downsizing of the early 80’s. As of part of reduction in force legislation, a plan was drafted and approved to retain all combat arms units in the National Guard. Combat support and service support in the reserve. This plan allowed states to maintain combat arms units in the event of a state emergency. It also provided for federal funding to the state in order to maintain, support, train and employ these units. The caveat is that the federal government, during a presidential call-up can mobilize these units.
Thus, SF reserve units had to disband because they were combat arms. So although, at one time there was 11th and 12 SFGA (Army Reserves), today only 19th and 20th SFGA (NG) remain. Not the best situation for a SOF unit because you serve under several masters. We fall under SOCOM, USASOC and USASFC and that is where we get our funding, but we also have state requirements that sometimes conflict.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by T-REX

Pat,

The re-organization of the NG and Reserves took place during budget cuts and military downsizing of the early 80’s. As of part of reduction in force legislation, a plan was drafted and approved to retain all combat arms units in the National Guard. Combat support and service support in the reserve. This plan allowed states to maintain combat arms units in the event of a state emergency. It also provided for federal funding to the state in order to maintain, support, train and employ these units. The caveat is that the federal government, during a presidential call-up can mobilize these units.
Thus, SF reserve units had to disband because they were combat arms. So although, at one time there was 11th and 12 SFGA (Army Reserves), today only 19th and 20th SFGA (NG) remain. Not the best situation for a SOF unit because you serve under several masters. We fall under SOCOM, USASOC and USASFC and that is where we get our funding, but we also have state requirements that sometimes conflict.

So he's looking only at AD or NG.

Actually, the plan makes sense. How'd that happen?

Thanks to everyone for clearing that up for me.

Pat

[2018commo]

The comments from T-Rex are dead on, although the final exodus of folks we received from the 11th, I thought was post Desert Storm, but it doesn’t matter. Sometimes we also had issues given we were different line companies from different battalions’ in different states. Our relation with our battalion was always great, our sister companies relation was not always wonderful, but I suspect it was personalities, not policy.
Now that I have left SF and see policy on a national scale, money and mission are the big differences.
The Guard has the ability to lobby congress and has advocates from the Governors’ Association pressing hard for adequate funding. Our facilities are a part of the community, used for sports, hurricane evacuation and use by FEMA for post crisis consequence management. I specifically am apart of a joint MILCON project with the USAR, they are forced to build to budget rather than program to criteria, and it seems like the entire project is a compromise. They get what the Army gives them and given the current needs of the active component, it is not enough. The states must contribute to the funding of the National Guard; 25% for MILCON, there are also state paid employees which maintain our sites, man our education offices and even out Adjutant General is a State Employee who sits on the governors special staff. Some of this funding is laundered federal dollars, some is not.
Overall we (reserve component) cost 12% of the active components, but are currently conducting 40% for the forward mission.
The guard trains for two missions, which of course there is some common skill overlap, but if you look at the Guards response in Iowa and Wisconsin right now you can see the difference. We spend a considerable time training our folks to be part of a quick reaction force, but this is not always an armed venture. We teach our folks to evacuate causalities, drive in high water and respond to CBRNE events, to name a few.
Yes I am an advocate for the Guard, 27 years will do that, but there are good people in the USAR shoveling an unbelievable load.
The current Head of the National Guard Bureau is a former SF Officer; that alone is worth considering.
I wish your son the best of luck.