Viscosupplementation

OIFDan · 05-20-2008, 17:18

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greenberetTFS · 09-26-2008, 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by OIFDan

Does anyone have any experience with these injections? I was just recommended a series of injections in the cartilage both of my knees. I have read about the injections online, but am somewhat curious if there might be anyone in this forum that has had personal experience with them. From my understanding they simply juice up the knee cartilage with little or no side effects, and that the shots can last up to a couple of years. Any personal experience is appreciated.
-Dan

OIFDan,

Belated response to your post....I've just noticed your request for some feed back on visco supplementation. I was offered the same injections,however I have had "negative" feed back on it from several guys who told me it didn't work for them. This is a late response, so you may have had the shots already. If you've had them I'm interested in what, if any, help it's given you.

GB TFS

Boomer-61 · 09-29-2008, 09:06

I'm a practicing Ortho PA of 20 years. I've been injecting folks for about four years now with either Syncisc or Supartz. Synvisc is a three injection series and Supartz recommends 5. If you have no sensativities to poultry you are good to go. It's extracted from the rooster comb. In my experience, if you have mild to moderate (your Ortho Doc can tell you this) arthritis there is about a 60% chance of showing signs of improvement. The lasting effects are unpredictable, some go three months, some a year. It has some mild initial antiinflammatory effect. The theory is that by increasing the viscosity of the joint fluid it will enhance lubrication, decreasing friction and the inflammatory response. The cost is generally about $600 for the three Synvisc injections plus the cost of having them administered. In my mind, it's cheaper than surgery.

greenberetTFS · 09-29-2008, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boomer-61

I'm a practicing Ortho PA of 20 years. I've been injecting folks for about four years now with either Syncisc or Supartz. Synvisc is a three injection series and Supartz recommends 5. If you have no sensativities to poultry you are good to go. It's extracted from the rooster comb. In my experience, if you have mild to moderate (your Ortho Doc can tell you this) arthritis there is about a 60% chance of showing signs of improvement. The lasting effects are unpredictable, some go three months, some a year. It has some mild initial antiinflammatory effect. The theory is that by increasing the viscosity of the joint fluid it will enhance lubrication, decreasing friction and the inflammatory response. The cost is generally about $600 for the three Synvisc injections plus the cost of having them administered. In my mind, it's cheaper than surgery.

Boomer-61,

Thank you for your feedback...Have you ever used Hyaluronate? I read it's the latest synthetic joint fluid.

GB TFS

Boomer-61 · 09-29-2008, 11:51

TFS,
Hyaluronate is Hyalgon (sp) I believe, which is Hyaluronate sodium which is essentially the same as Synvisc (hyaluronic acid) so I gotta believe the results would be the same.
Boomer

MVS2 · 09-29-2008, 12:04

I used Joint Soother for some knee problems - worked well (less pain and less crunchy/scraping feeling) after taking it regularly for a few weeks.

greenberetTFS · 09-29-2008, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVS2

I used Joint Soother for some knee problems - worked well (less pain and less crunchy/scraping feeling) after taking it regularly for a few weeks.

MVS2,

Is this an OTC product ?

GB TFS

MVS2 · 09-29-2008, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenberetTFS

MVS2,

Is this an OTC product ?

GB TFS

Yeah - here's a link to the company's website

http://www.vitaminworld.com/pages/Ca...911B8F2&CID=31

Red Flag 1 · 09-29-2008, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boomer-61

I'm a practicing Ortho PA of 20 years. I've been injecting folks for about four years now with either Syncisc or Supartz. Synvisc is a three injection series and Supartz recommends 5. If you have no sensativities to poultry you are good to go. It's extracted from the rooster comb. In my experience, if you have mild to moderate (your Ortho Doc can tell you this) arthritis there is about a 60% chance of showing signs of improvement. The lasting effects are unpredictable, some go three months, some a year. It has some mild initial antiinflammatory effect. The theory is that by increasing the viscosity of the joint fluid it will enhance lubrication, decreasing friction and the inflammatory response. The cost is generally about $600 for the three Synvisc injections plus the cost of having them administered. In my mind, it's cheaper than surgery.

Boomer,

Is this a parenteral Glucossamine?

RF 1

shr7 · 09-29-2008, 15:06

RF1

Sodium hyaluronate. It works on the synovial fluid, increasing viscosity/protection of the joint. It is injected intra-articularly. It's also used in eye drops to protect tissues during certain eye surgeries. (I don't know anything more about that.) It is supposed to be decently effective, similar to intra-articular steroid therapy. It therefore has a good steroid/NSAID sparing effect. I don't know a whole lot about it, I will leave the rest to those who actually have some experience with the drug.

SR

Red Flag 1 · 09-29-2008, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by shr7

RF1

Sodium hyaluronate. It works on the synovial fluid, increasing viscosity/protection of the joint. It is injected intra-articularly. It's also used in eye drops to protect tissues during certain eye surgeries. (I don't know anything more about that.) It is supposed to be decently effective, similar to intra-articular steroid therapy. It therefore has a good steroid/NSAID sparing effect. I don't know a whole lot about it, I will leave the rest to those who actually have some experience with the drug.

SR

Thanks.

That is what I thought. This then has little effect, if any, on the articular surfaces.

There is an injectable Glucossamine that the Vets are using. I can say that because we just finished a series of six on my Lab, she blew out her knee.

Glucossamine is a dietary supplement. As such, not well regulated by the FDA. The problem with OTC Glocossamine is what portion of the oral dose actually winds up in the joint space. If there is a human injectable Glucossamine preperation, I have not heard of it.

RF 1

MVS2 · 09-29-2008, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by shr7

RF1

Sodium hyaluronate. It works on the synovial fluid, increasing viscosity/protection of the joint. It is injected intra-articularly. It's also used in eye drops to protect tissues during certain eye surgeries. (I don't know anything more about that.) It is supposed to be decently effective, similar to intra-articular steroid therapy. It therefore has a good steroid/NSAID sparing effect. I don't know a whole lot about it, I will leave the rest to those who actually have some experience with the drug.

SR

Would that be similar to hyaluronic acid?

shr7 · 09-29-2008, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVS2

Would that be similar to hyaluronic acid?

Yes, sodium hyaluronate is the conjugate base of hyaluronic acid. I'm assuming some sort of solubility or stability issue. However, for all intensive purposes, we are talking about the same thing.

RF 1 -
I have not heard of nor seen any type of injectable glucosamine for humans. I have seen a few instances of IM, IV, or IA injection in studies, but I don't know of any commercial preparation. And you hit upon an interesting point about the availability and distribution of oral glucosamine. To bad no drug company would ever risk it's profits to try to prove their drug actually worked in an objective study.

Boomer-61 · 09-30-2008, 04:24

RF1,
As above, no injectable preparations of Glucosamine/Chondroitin sulfate that I am aware of. I posted a reply to a thread about Cosamin DS and our experience with it.
What I see with these products, Synvisc, cosamin, is that they are no cure for arthritis. I think of them as joint nutrition suppliments whether it be by mouth or injection. If it keeps you out of the operating room then it's done its job. If your joints are bad enough, they just delay the inevitable.
I think there is a lot of research yet to be done with these products. But like vitamins it is hard to select out who they actually help or prevent arthritis in versus who just has good genes.
So for now, I tell my patients to stay as fit as possible, in ways that do not affect their aching joints and that's usually in a pool or with non-impact loading ways. Stay as close to their ideal body weight as possible. Avoid activities that exacerbate their symptoms. Use the products if they help. Use a trekking pole if they don't.
Boomer

greenberetTFS · 10-02-2008, 13:07

Guys,

I've bitten the bullet...The VA said no more cortisone shots but did approve the viscosupplement shots. However they will only allow one shot per week for a total of 6 shots over a 6 week period for both knees. The cortisone shots were given,both knees at the same time over a 3 month timeframe. They said it should last at least 6 months and hopefully longer. Sincere thanks for all the feedback you guys gave me,I really do appreciate it.....

GB TFS