Conceal Carry Instructors around Fayetteville

[11Ber]

Let me begin by saying I searched for "Conceal Carry Instructor" and could not find the answer I am looking for. Having just moved here from Ft Drum and ditched my Maryland residency, my wife and I are looking to get our concealed carry permits. We visited Jims on Yadkin today for some range time and did some inquiring into their course. I am now asking for the advice of the QP's as to any reputable courses around Fayetteville. On another note, I am a member of open carry.org, a pro-open carry website and forum. I know NC is a state that does not ban open carry. Therefore it is legal. I am wondering if anyone has any experience carrying openly around Fayetteville and how those instances went. I.E. any trouble with LEO or regular citizens. Thanks in advance.

[kgoerz]

Ed's Gun shop out in Southern Pines runs one about every weekend. The Instructor is squared away. He was the Principle when my Kids were in Elementary School.

[Peregrino]

Open Carry is overrated and necessarilly underutilized. In plain English that means restrict it to (your) private property. Even in the woods it pays to be discrete. It's not just for tactical reasons; NC has a law about "terrorizing the public". Open carry in a public place virtually guarantees a complaint to law enforcement. It's all in the eye of the beholder and LEOs have to respond to the citizen's complaint. (We all know how the general public is programmed to respond to firearms - and the people who are willing to exercise their rights.)

As for CCW classes - Go ask the guys at Shooters. They rank right at the top of the local SF friendly businesses and have decent prices. They will recommend a quality instructor and you don't have to drive all the way to Southern Pines unless you just "want" to (Ed's is worth the trip, they're good people too.) Personally I would pay 10-15% more for an item somewhere (anywhere) else before I would spend money at Jim's.

Take the CCW class. Even if you never get the permit the course (from a quality instructor) is well worth the money because of its strong emphasis on NC law. Everyone needs to know the law with respects to deadly force if they intend to carry a weapon.

As for ranges - check out McKellars. Personally I'm not enamored of the businesses that own the two indoor ranges in F'nam and I'm willing to vote with my checkbook. McKellars range has changed management and it's a lot more "user friendly". You can't beat the price or the convenience and you'll probably meet a few people you know (lots of "kids" from the "Q"). Besides; during the week, the lunch buffet is "maximum troughage".

[11Ber]

Thanks for the quick replies. Peregrino-I have to disagree with you on your views on OC. I spent a fair amount of time in the Northern VA area where, if you keep your eyes open, you can see OC a good amount. I feel it is not overrated. VA has a much lower crime rate than states that restrict OC. As for the "to the terror of the public" law. There are 4 items that must be met.

Going Armed to the Terror of the Public

This is a common law offense (272 N.C. 535; 32 N.C. App 495).

A person guilty of this offense

(1) arms himself or herself with unusual and dangerous weapons (firearm)

(2) for the purpose of terrifying others

(3) and goes about on public highways

(4) in a manner to cause terror to others.

In order to be charged, all four conditions need to be met. If you are going about your business acting in a reasonable manner, and your weapons holstered properly, there is no danger in getting charged for this crime. Now, why I do like to OC, I do not want to be wrongly detained by the FPD and screw up what I got going for me. Not trying to start a argument, just pointing somethings out. Thanks again for the advice.

[Peregrino]

11Ber - You are absolutely right. That's also completely irrelevant when one of the "sheeple" complains about your lawfully carried firearm. If the effect of your actions "created terror in the mind of the complaintant", it doesn't matter what your intent was, you will be charged. You then get to defend yourself in court. You might even get the charges dismissed (there is no "win" in this case, you just avoid jail). My CCW instructor was a practicing attorney with experience in NC firearms cases. He was actually qualified/empowered to give legal advice, unlike myself. His advice was to "use discretion in the exercise of your rights" and he is an ardent advocate of the right to carry. I'm just passing along information that I consider to be prudent advice. Maybe if the pendulum swings the other way some day, an "in your face" defense of a "right" won't unnecessarilly alienate potential converts. Here's a hint - If you really want to succeed in SF and operate in a UW environment, you might want to learn to consider 2nd and 3rd order effects. FWIW.

[11Ber]

I can not agree with you more on the sheeple comment. That is why I am interested in gettting my CC permit. While I am all for excercising my rights and trying to challenge people's views, I know now is not the time. I took it as you were not clear on the "armed to the terror" law, obviously you were. I apologize for pointing out the obvious. I did look into Shooters and I think I will be making a trip there tomorrow. Got to see if the little lady can work the action on a Glock.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by 11Ber

Thanks for the quick replies. Peregrino-I have to disagree with you on your views on OC. I spent a fair amount of time in the Northern VA area where, if you keep your eyes open, you can see OC a good amount. I feel it is not overrated. VA has a much lower crime rate than states that restrict OC. As for the "to the terror of the public" law. There are 4 items that must be met.

Going Armed to the Terror of the Public

This is a common law offense (272 N.C. 535; 32 N.C. App 495).

A person guilty of this offense

(1) arms himself or herself with unusual and dangerous weapons (firearm)

(2) for the purpose of terrifying others

(3) and goes about on public highways

(4) in a manner to cause terror to others.

In order to be charged, all four conditions need to be met. If you are going about your business acting in a reasonable manner, and your weapons holstered properly, there is no danger in getting charged for this crime. Now, why I do like to OC, I do not want to be wrongly detained by the FPD and screw up what I got going for me. Not trying to start a argument, just pointing somethings out. Thanks again for the advice.

You need to stop talking and start listening to the people who live here.

You CAN carry openly, and I guarantee that if you are doing it in public view, like a mall, a business, or a restaurant, you WILL be arrested within the first day. The mere complaint will be viewed as sufficient evidence of the "terrorization of the public".

Then you can bail yourself out of jail, hire an attorney, and pay him thousands of dollars to defend yourself while the government lawyers do it for free as part of their job. Furthermore, you will probably have to initiate a separate action to get your weapon returned. Additionally, if you get convicted, you may not be able to get a CCW in the future.

Finally, when you come out on the blotter report, it may affect your day job. Think about it.

You may be technically correct, but you will be poorer in the end.

Do as you think best. Good luck.

TR

[TheShootist]

Reaper hit the nail on the head as usual. Public image of those who do carry is an important factor to consider as well. Fact is the general public does not wish to see firearms displayed in the open...those that do carry in the open IMHO are simply using the gun as an extension of their manhood. It gains nothing for our cause. I would encourage you to keep it concealed.

[kgoerz]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

Open Carry is overrated and necessarilly underutilized. In plain English that means restrict it to (your) private property. Even in the woods it pays to be discrete. It's not just for tactical reasons; NC has a law about "terrorizing the public". Open carry in a public place virtually guarantees a complaint to law enforcement. It's all in the eye of the beholder and LEOs have to respond to the citizen's complaint. (We all know how the general public is programmed to respond to firearms - and the people who are willing to exercise their rights.)

As for CCW classes - Go ask the guys at Shooters. They rank right at the top of the local SF friendly businesses and have decent prices. They will recommend a quality instructor and you don't have to drive all the way to Southern Pines unless you just "want" to (Ed's is worth the trip, they're good people too.) Personally I would pay 10-15% more for an item somewhere (anywhere) else before I would spend money at Jim's.

Take the CCW class. Even if you never get the permit the course (from a quality instructor) is well worth the money because of its strong emphasis on NC law. Everyone needs to know the law with respects to deadly force if they intend to carry a weapon.

As for ranges - check out McKellars. Personally I'm not enamored of the businesses that own the two indoor ranges in F'nam and I'm willing to vote with my checkbook. McKellars range has changed management and it's a lot more "user friendly". You can't beat the price or the convenience and you'll probably meet a few people you know (lots of "kids" from the "Q"). Besides; during the week, the lunch buffet is "maximum troughage".

OOPS, Forgot about the Boys at Shooters. But if they don't have enough participants to justify running a class. Check with ED's, the sign up sheet always has a bunch of names on it.
If you take the one at Ed's you will get more of a History lesson about Guns,CCW and the 2nd Amendment then actual Weapons training. Which was fine by me. Very interesting Instructor.

[abc_123]

Originally Posted by 11Ber

I spent a fair amount of time in the Northern VA area where, if you keep your eyes open, you can see OC a good amount.

I would imagine that the majority of the OC sightings in NoVA area are in establishments that have a liquor license (even restaurants). I can't make sense of it, but in those places CC is not legal even for those with a CCW permit. SO even with a CCW permit the choice when going out to eat with your family to a place that has a liquor license is to go in un-armed, or OC and risk getting asked to leave by the management.

However, how things work in NoVA has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with how things work in NC.

[11Ber]

Originally Posted by abc_123

I would imagine that the majority of the OC sightings in NoVA area are in establishments that have a liquor license (even restaurants). I can't make sense of it, but in those places CC is not legal even for those with a CCW permit. SO even with a CCW permit the choice when going out to eat with your family to a place that has a liquor license is to go in un-armed, or OC and risk getting asked to leave by the management.

However, how things work in NoVA has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with how things work in NC.

I couldn't agree more. OC but no CC in a restaraunt makes no sense. I, myself, have to OC in VA all the time due to no CC permit. I have hit up Red Robin in Fair Lakes and Red Lobster at Dulles Town Center with no problems. The following link has many many more stories of OC in NoVa. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/

The main thing is what you said "NoVA has nothing...to do with..NC." I am going to play it safe and heed the advice given here and get a permit to conceal. I went to Shooters but they are closed on Sunday's. Had to get some cleaning supplies so I went to Gander Mtn. Checked out the pink Taurus Pro Millenium for the wife and will hopefully sell her on it. She shot one yesterday and felt very comfortable with it.

[Eagle5US]

Unless I was on my ranch or backwoods property where I would need to readily defend myself against bears, mountain lions, wild dogs and killer turtles; OC points me out as a potential threat (and therefor a primary target) to anyone who is observing the population of any establishment that they may intend to cause mischief in.
Not to turn this into a discussion for or against - just placing my opinion and why.
That being said, I would absolutely prefer to be a discreetly armed citizen, with the ability to unexpectedly disrupt and engage, than to have my weapon clearly visible and therefor be "detained" (or otherwise neutralized) being the obvious threat in the absence of law enforcement.

Good luck in your CCW class.

Eagle

[abc_123]

Originally Posted by Eagle5US

OC points me out as a potential threat (and therefor a primary target) to anyone who is observing the population of any establishment that they may intend to cause mischief in.
Not to turn this into a discussion for or against - just placing my opinion and why.
That being said, I would absolutely prefer to be a discreetly armed citizen, with the ability to unexpectedly disrupt and engage, than to have my weapon clearly visible and therefor be "detained" (or otherwise neutralized) being the obvious threat in the absence of law enforcement.

Eagle

Absolutely.

CCW holders in Va are trying to get the law changed to permit CC in places with a liqour license that liqour isn't the primary money maker (like the law is written in most other CC states) but no joy so far...so we have the peculiar situation that we have.

[cold1]

Originally Posted by Eagle5US

OC points me out as a potential threat (and therefor a primary target) to anyone who is observing the population of any establishment that they may intend to cause mischief in.

While working in a convenience store at nights and weekends during college, I was advise to carry a pistol by the local PD. I broke out the 1911 and put it on my hip. The first night I carried, one of the older, VN Vet, local PD came in for a visit. He asked what I was doing with that on my hip. I told him that it was advised that I do so. That is when He explained how stupid I was for having it in the open where they know you have it and they will plan accordingly. They will just shoot you as soon as they walk in the door instead of giving you a chance. Never again was that pistol seen on my hip or did I ever discuss having one with me or not.

Thank God for the FOGs.

[ODA 226]

I am former Virginia Law Enforcement and currently possess a Virginia Concealed Handgun Licence. Being former LE, and an active concealed carrier, I feel the need to chime in here.

I agree with my QP's that it is prudent to carry concealed whenever possible. Unfortunately due to our idiot Governor, there are places that we Virginians go during the course of our everyday lives that REQUIRE us to make a decision to either:
1. DISARM ourselves to comply with (stupid) state laws.
2. ILLEGALLY carry into prohibited areas, such as restaurants that serve alcohol.
3. Open Carry into restaurants and take the chance of:
A: Letting everyone know that we are armed. OR:
B: Taking a chance of being asked to leave the premises.

I always exercise option B Open Carry as distasteful as I find it. I too, am a member of OpenCarry.org and regularly attend their meetings to garner support for all Second Amendment rights and to politicize how stupid it is for our governor to FORCE CHL holders to expose that fact that they are armed to everyone and his mother. There are currently over 150,000 CHL holders in Virginia and we are quickly becoming a political force to be reckoned with.

While I disagree in principle about about open carry in most instances, it IS a right guaranteed under the 2A and the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia.

I strongly disagree with my fellow QP's that open carry in a state that does not expressly PROHIBIT it, such as NC, will automatically result in an arrest. Open carry in and of itself is NOT a crime and does not automatically warrant a "Terry Stop". (See Terry v. Ohio).

A good example of a recent illegal Terry stop and subsequent ILLEGAL ARREST in Virginia can be found here:

Szymecki v. The City of Norfolk

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/9374.html

Mr. Szymecki and his wife are soon to be $350,000 richer and the arresting Deputy is sure to get fired or at least, severely spanked.

I WILL NOT leave my $1,300.00 Springfield .45 in the glove compartment of my rag-top Jeep to be stolen and used in a street-crime! if asked to leave an eatery, I will gladly do so, but in the past months, I've never been asked to do so. I have been asked about my weapon by management in the past and I simply tell them that I have a CHL, but in order to comply with state law, I am open carrying and that I, as a responsible citizen, have a moral duty to ensure that my weapon is not stolen to be used in a crime.

It is also my duty as a citizen of the US and the Commonwealth of Virginia to support other citizens that are exersizing their rights under the 2A and the Virginia Constitution even if I don't think it is the most "prudent" thing to do. Unfortunately in Virginia, Open Carry under these circumstances is the ONLY thing to do.

226