Weapons training advice

[Team Sergeant]

Ever wonder why we have millions of golfers (hackers) and only a handful of individuals playing the game on a professional level? Many will tell you they can play golf but only at a very basic level.
Same goes for professional runners, bowlers, tennis players etc. What separates the pro's from the amateurs, it begins their training and then continues with their commitment to their sport.

When I train individuals I always ask at what level does that person believe he or she is currently at in their weapons training the answers very from a beginner to intermediate and I've had some that will answer "I'm a weapons instructor" I then usually ask them to shake my hand and attempt to crush my hand at the same time. This action identifies their strength level in their wrist and forearm.

A weak grip tells me the individual is not an advanced shooter and will have a long road ahead to become a great shooter. Conversely a strong grip tells me that they have the necessary physical strength to become an advanced shooter and if they have been shooting a long time there might be some quarks to watch for such as a "controlled jerk".

Most golfers are hacks and play just to relax. They might have taken a few lessons and then feel they know enough to play. And most just learn the game from their buddies and don’t bother taking any lessons. Again, they don’t mind as I mentioned they are there to relax and enjoy the atmosphere. The same goes for the weekend shooting enthusiasts, they also have taken a few lessons, maybe none and off they go to the range, and like the golfers they go to relax, shoot and enjoy the company of like minded individuals.

Some are game shooters, some are cowboy six shooters, some serious target shooters, clay birds, paper targets, there are the metallic silhouette shooters and the list goes on. Then there are the serious minded shooters, the ones that fall into the category of "defensive shooters".

These individuals are the CCW holders, the females (and males) that take responsibility for their own welfare and most law enforcement. (And some are those tinfoil hat wearing sorts that believe the United Nations will soon be attempting to disarm American citizens by force.)
These weapons aficionados are the ones that think/hope they know enough that if ever faced with lethal force to fight and hopefully prevail. They are law abiding citizens and take advice and just enough training to get by, they hope.

In my opinion their training is adequate, only because the evil men they face usually possess no weapons training at all.

Think about this, you’ve been playing golf for years, you can break 100 on a good day but you are anything but pro. Now enter that beginner, his first day and he barely knows which direction to swing his club, has six clubs in his bag, is hyped on drugs and adrenalin, challenges you to best of 18 holes competition. Not much of a challenge right? Food for thought.

Like golf weapons training depends on what you want out of it, do you want to beat that beginner or take on Tiger Woods? Or are you looking for a happy place in the middle?

That’s the first step in your weapons training, knowing what you want out of it. As in any decision, you first need to set your goal and then move to accomplish that goal.

I have little doubt Tiger Woods could show you the proper swing in an hour, but without practice and a lot more training & commitment you don’t have a snowballs chance in hell beating Tiger one on one.

Same goes for weapons training, again food for thought.

I really enjoy the individuals that tell me: “I want to shoot like you!” to which I answer, "fine, you only have a few more years of hard training ahead."

Set your training goal, then set out to meet it.

Team Sergeant

[monsterhunter]

Great analogy Team Sergeant, I think I'll spread your words around my area if you don't mind. Thanks for posting.

[Sten]

Would you elaborate on "controlled jerk" a bit.

[NoRoadtrippin]

Excellent post. Its just one more among many that is helping me to learn the correct mindset as I get started in my military career.

In a couple weeks, I'm taking AWG's basic BRM course, having this thread and others in mind will hopefully help me to get as much as possible out of such an opportunity.

Thanks Team Sergeant.

[Dragbag036]

TS

You hit the nail on the head. Can we take it to another level? What really is our shooting program? Does sending one to an advanced school imply that he is now a great shot. Its only the beginning. Going downrange and shooting a bunch of bullets also does not make one an expert, but it does give a person insight into what he really needs to focus on. Many times concentrating on advanced skills instead of the basics and fundamentals of shooting gives individuals false sense of skill. I see it every class. (I've been there, done that, have two years time...but I can't shoot a group at 25m with my M4)

Just my .02cents

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Sten

Would you elaborate on "controlled jerk" a bit.

Yes I could, especially since I made up the term.

It's simply jerking the trigger the same way everytime causing a "shot group" but not in the place the individual was intending. The shot group looks fine and no one would ever question the fact it was not where the individual was actually aiming.
A way to check if someone has indeed a controlled jerk is by using the "ball and dummy" drill.

I've seen it many times and in every case its a seasoned shooter.

Team Sergeant

[Tubbs]

Gentleman, I have a question for the Professional Soldiers.
If you could only shoot 100 rounds of centerfire ammo a month as practice in your handgun how would you shoot it?

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Tubbs

Gentleman, I have a question for the Professional Soldiers.
If you could only shoot 100 rounds of centerfire ammo a month as practice in your handgun how would you shoot it?

I would tell you to read this thread before asking again.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ad.php?t=11553

TR

[Tubbs]

Roger that sir.
I have that thread saved to my desktop.
I also took Perigrino's idea from the "pistol coaching via e-mail" thread.
I should have been more specific and to the point in my original post.
I have a 100 round drill that I came up with as a hodgepodge of what I have read here and in a copy of American Handgunner where Clint Smith addressed this topic. I have been using it for roughly a year. I would like some critique on it.
NDD said "I disagree with "self-diagnosis" in neophytes. And most people in general. If you knew what you were doing wrong, you could just stop it."
I am looking for a more experiecned perspective on this than my own.

My targets are paper plates. If I hit the plate the shot counts, if not it doesn't.

Slow Fire- 30rnds
10rnds @ 7m
10rnds @ 15m
10rnds @ 25m

Draw and Fire and Reloading- 30rnds @ 7m
3rnds one mag, 2rnds second mag
Load 3rnd mag and holster pistol.
Draw, fire, reload, fire.
I do this drill 6x

Then I set up two plates vertically, one on top of the other and an index card on the top.
I draw from holstered, fire 2rnds at the top plate, followed by two at the bottom plate and finally one to the notecard. I preform this drill 4x @ 7yds.

Next I fire 10rnds @ 7yds in rapid succession.

Finally I shoot 5rnds weak hand supported and 5rnds weak hand unsupported both at @ 7yds.

I average 90% accuracy overall in the exercise. I seem to be stuck here. I keep a shot log of how many rounds I shoot, the type of ammo, time and date and my accuracy. If I have a friend with me I get them to load the mags for me and slip in a snap cap to simualte a malfunction.
TS, I can do 100 proper pushups immediately followed by 6 proper pull-ups so I am still working on the physical fitness aspects of proper shooting.

[frostfire]

Thank you posting the link, Reaper Sir. Years ago when I went through it, there were many terms I did not understand. But now, everything mentioned made complete sense and felt nostalgic.

Originally Posted by Peregrino

There are enough legitimate, high quality training tips already on this board to create an uber gunfighter if the aspirant can put it all together. (That's easier said than done.)

I'm no uber gunfighter, but I've put my skills against those who attends numerous shooting classes and more years of experience. Sometimes I beat them, but they were always impressed. The search button is indeed the best thing since microwave

Originally Posted by Tubbs

TS, I can do 100 proper pushups immediately followed by 6 proper pull-ups so I am still working on the physical fitness aspects of proper shooting.

FWIW

IIRC, the TS did tell someone to go learn how to shoot from him once he can execute proper 100 push-ups and 20 pull-ups (got the pull-ups done, working on the push-ups, TS). However, in a different thread, grip and forearm strength were mentioned being necessary to shoot properly each and every time. I imagine one would do exercises more specific to these two areas. I do these:
- 6 and 10 pounds dumbbell/brick lifts, then held in right and left offhand position (gripped by finger tips, eye focused on the weight when up, then on the distance when down) for 1 to 2 minutes
- Forearm weight-roller
- Crossfit hammer drills.
I could be way off on the proper names of these exercises. These are for pistol. I do something else for rifle

Back to my lane...

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Tubbs

I average 90% accuracy overall in the exercise. I seem to be stuck here. I keep a shot log of how many rounds I shoot, the type of ammo, time and date and my accuracy. If I have a friend with me I get them to load the mags for me and slip in a snap cap to simualte a malfunction.
TS, I can do 100 proper pushups immediately followed by 6 proper pull-ups so I am still working on the physical fitness aspects of proper shooting.

90% accurate..... not good enough. Slow down and become 100% accurate, then slowly turn up the speed.

I think The Reaper has written this a number of times on here:

"Speed is fine but accuracy is final."

Do yourself a favor, stop reading anything Clint Smith is professing and start reading all that Paul Howe is writing.

Team Sergeant

Originally Posted by frostfire

FWIW

IIRC, the TS did tell someone to go learn how to shoot from him once he can execute proper 100 push-ups and 20 pull-ups (got the pull-ups done, working on the push-ups, TS). However, in a different thread, grip and forearm strength were mentioned being necessary to shoot properly each and every time. I imagine one would do exercises more specific to these two areas. I do these:
- 6 and 10 pounds dumbbell/brick lifts, then held in right and left offhand position (gripped by finger tips, eye focused on the weight when up, then on the distance when down) for 1 to 2 minutes
- Forearm weight-roller
- Crossfit hammer drills.
I could be way off on the proper names of these exercises. These are for pistol. I do something else for rifle

Back to my lane...

Sounds like you're on the right road!

TS

[swatsurgeon]

I have to throw this in here, TS and I have had this discussion before with DocT.

Efficiency breeds speed, speed breeds mistakes. The fastest are THE MOST efficient masters of their trade, whether it's a surgeon, shooter or what ever requires multistep actions.

TS hammers his points and they are all true....I am a believer because he has has the pleasure (yeah right), I mean privilege of training my sorry ass to shoot better/more efficiently, and it works. Now I am working on consistency; once my arm heals.....

ss

[Tubbs]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

90% accurate..... not good enough. Slow down and become 100% accurate, then slowly turn up the speed.

I think The Reaper has written this a number of times on here:

"Speed is fine but accuracy is final."

Do yourself a favor, stop reading anything Clint Smith is professing and start reading all that Paul Howe is writing.

Team Sergeant

TS

Solid copy sir. I will be on google.
What is wrong with Clint Smith?

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Tubbs

Solid copy sir. I will be on google.
What is wrong with Clint Smith?

Absolutely nothing if you are in the market for antiquated defensive training & techniques.

[mumbleypeg]

Having reread TS's op and reread Reaper's link I went to the range and slowly worked through TS's training.

I then went home and learned all about vivo y pedejo, mostly pendejo. I went for a bike ride, fell off and received a Radial head fracture for my effort.

The good news I'm left handed and fractured my right arm. The bad news, I shoot right handed. I will be working on left handed snap cap drills for a while.

As my mother is fond of saying "everyday is a school day".

I would also like to mention that TS is a masterful teacher.