03-04-2008, 23:28
|
#1
|
|
SF Candidate
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posts: 9
|
Sub sonic loads
I'm looking for some advice on reloading 5.56 sub-sonic ammo. Info such as bullet type and weight, powder type and amount, primers, and anything else that is necessary. I am aware that sub sonic 5.56 doesn't usually cycle and the risk of getting a sqiub or blow up the rifle itself. I have tried devoloping a load from the reseached I gathered at the time and the 1st load worked fine but the 2nd with a grain more powder costed me an upper receiver. I would like to try again but there is little margin for error and like to compare notes with someone else. If you do have some infomation but don't want to reveil because of the risk involved I understand. But feel free share any knowledge on the subject for it is not pacifically discussed in this forum. Thanks.
|
|
Daredevil63 is offline
|
|
|
03-05-2008, 06:15
|
#2
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,810
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daredevil63
I'm looking for some advice on reloading 5.56 sub-sonic ammo. Info such as bullet type and weight, powder type and amount, primers, and anything else that is necessary. I am aware that sub sonic 5.56 doesn't usually cycle and the risk of getting a sqiub or blow up the rifle itself. I have tried devoloping a load from the reseached I gathered at the time and the 1st load worked fine but the 2nd with a grain more powder costed me an upper receiver. I would like to try again but there is little margin for error and like to compare notes with someone else. If you do have some infomation but don't want to reveil because of the risk involved I understand. But feel free share any knowledge on the subject for it is not pacifically discussed in this forum. Thanks.
|
The terminal ballistics of a sub-sonic 5.56 are going to be pretty bad.
And unless you have a suppressor, it won't matter.
Have you considered a .22LR conversion kit and some CB Longs or subsonic .22LR?
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
|
|
The Reaper is offline
|
|
|
03-05-2008, 11:14
|
#3
|
|
SF Candidate
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posts: 9
|
Roger
Roger that my prepose for the subsonic is I'm designing a suppresser and I'm trying to see how quiet I can get it without the use of wipes. With the cost of a new upper, material, tools, and the $200.00 for the class 3 approval I'm already over what I attended to spend. I would try to use wipes but I'm not sure what type of plastic or rubber that is used. If you could shed any light on that it would be deeply apprecaited as well. Thanks alot again.
|
|
Daredevil63 is offline
|
|
|
03-05-2008, 11:21
|
#4
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,810
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daredevil63
Roger that my prepose for the subsonic is I'm designing a suppresser and I'm trying to see how quiet I can get it without the use of wipes. With the cost of a new upper, material, tools, and the $200.00 for the class 3 approval I'm already over what I attended to spend. I would try to use wipes but I'm not sure what type of plastic or rubber that is used. If you could shed any light on that it would be deeply apprecaited as well. Thanks alot again.
|
We will not be discussing home suppressor construction on this forum.
Thanks for asking.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
|
|
The Reaper is offline
|
|
|
03-05-2008, 11:23
|
#5
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central TX
Posts: 1,390
|
Be advised, Rubber wipes are considered internal suppressor parts and anyone playing with such things is doing so at there own risk. The ATF has given folks a lot of grief over such things in the past. As for subsonic load data, there was some chatter elsewhere about using Trail Boss powder for that application but I do not know any more than that. Subsonic .223 is highly specialized and can be a pain in the ass as far as actually cycling the weapon. If you are looking for movie quiet with anything resembling reliability and useful payload, I recommend taking a look a .300 Whisper. YMMV, but you are treading a slippery slope.
Blake
|
|
Air.177 is offline
|
|
|
03-05-2008, 11:46
|
#6
|
|
SF Candidate
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posts: 9
|
Thanks again. I would bet this type of discusion could get someone in trouble or hurt if they have no experience in this type of thing. Sub-load, silencers and suppressers is someting that interest me and would like to study more about it. If anyone has suggestions for any books or articles that be great. Have a good day.
|
|
Daredevil63 is offline
|
|
|
03-05-2008, 12:09
|
#7
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,701
|
Not a good idea. There's a reason for rounds like the .300 Whisper. If you want to continue, I would recommend allocating a significant portion of your budget to medical insurance. You haven't destroyed your last receiver. The next time it happens, you might not be as lucky. Having witnessed squib loads, bulged barrels, and split receivers I'm not terribly sympathetic of injured experimenters.
|
|
Peregrino is offline
|
|
|
05-16-2008, 21:30
|
#8
|
|
Auxiliary
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North
Posts: 79
|
another vote for .300 whisper. it is the perfect round for suppressed work. cycles flawlessly as long as you modify the gas system to compensate.
a good buddy of mine just built and tested a .300 wsp upper on his class III lower... thing cycles like a dream on FA. if I recall, the tweak that made it all come together was tapping the barrel for the gas port where it would be if it were in a pistol configuration.
be advised though, that ammo is not cheap.
|
|
Animal8526 is offline
|
|
|
05-17-2008, 05:08
|
#9
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 18 yrs upstate NY, 30 yrs South Florida, 20 yrs Conch Republic, now chasing G-Kids in NOVA & UK
Posts: 11,901
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daredevil63
I'm looking for some advice on reloading 5.56 sub-sonic ammo.
|
WHY bother?? If you have a nut for .556,, look at Engle Ballistic Research's MM Ultra Stealth Match Ammunition.. It is sub-sonic but will not cycle an M4 action. That's by design. Cycling the action can make as much noise as the sub-sonic crack...
If you want quite, read up on the development of the .300 Whisper (as mentioned) or the 9x39 VSS "Vintorez", a necked up 7.62x39.
ALthough there are .22 cal rounds that are quite,, They are typically limited to short ranges, because of feeble terminal ballistics, lobing trajectories, and wind drift inaccuracies..
The other end, big and slow, is not only easer(read safer) to develop,, but there is a world of ammo already available..
Before you spend a bunch,, you may want to sit down and state the obvious,, what is the range, what are the expected terminal ballistics, what is the target penetration requirements.
I think you might find the .22 cal lacking in almost all areas...
Good Luck,,,
__________________
Go raibh tú leathuair ar Neamh sula mbeadh a fhios ag an diabhal go bhfuil tú marbh
"May you be a half hour in heaven before the devil knows you’re dead"
|
|
JJ_BPK is offline
|
|
|
05-17-2008, 18:24
|
#10
|
|
Auxiliary
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North
Posts: 79
|
oh, and I just remembered... if you do go .300 whisper, you won't have to change anything other than the barrel. bolt face is the same, mags are the same... you'll be good to go. makes it nice when the only thing you have to change out is your upper. swap the bolt carrier group and your good to rock... very quietly of course. 
|
|
Animal8526 is offline
|
|
|
05-18-2008, 09:42
|
#11
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: DFW Texas Area
Posts: 4,741
|
PEOPLE!!!
Be advised and I mean VERY advised that there are a few ATF/FBI Agents that lurk on here. I have had PMs with them and they are not looking for anything, but if they happen upon it, trust me they will take action!!
I have manufactured a Machinegun, legally licensed (see http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ead.php?t=1705), and have many Class III Dealers as friends. Even discussing how to manufacture something can be construed into "Conspiring to Manufacture"!! While discussing Sub-sonic ammo is not illegal, the external mechanics of keeping it quiet are!! BE CAREFUL!!!
Take care.
Martin
__________________
Martin sends.
|
|
Ambush Master is offline
|
|
|
05-18-2008, 17:47
|
#12
|
|
Auxiliary
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North
Posts: 79
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambush Master
PEOPLE!!!
Be advised and I mean VERY advised that there are a few ATF/FBI Agents that lurk on here. I have had PMs with them and they are not looking for anything, but if they happen upon it, trust me they will take action!!
I have manufactured a Machinegun, legally licensed (see http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ead.php?t=1705), and have many Class III Dealers as friends. Even discussing how to manufacture something can be construed into "Conspiring to Manufacture"!! While discussing Sub-sonic ammo is not illegal, the external mechanics of keeping it quiet are!! BE CAREFUL!!!
Take care.
Martin |
Yup, its a big no no for sure... unless you are doing it legally. he did mention paying the $200 tax stamp. it is legal (at least thats what letters from the BATF have led me to believe) to manufacture suppressors yourself provided 2 things...
1.) you CANNOT manufacture them for commercial purposes, and you may never transfer them to another individual.
2.) you MUST physically make it yourself. someone may guide you, but your hand needs to be running the tool the entire time.
3.) be aware that the can needs to be serialized just like a commercial one.
still, you are skating in a dangerous gray area when you start doing shit like this... much better to just buy one off the shelf and not worry about the ATF kicking down your door.
|
|
Animal8526 is offline
|
|
|
05-19-2008, 19:11
|
#13
|
|
Asset
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 4
|
There is nothing wrong with building your own suppressor, as long as you first file an ATF Form 1. Keep in mind that any part of a suppressor is considered a registered part. You cannot make any extra baffles, wipes, tubes, etc. Follow the rules and stay within the law. Unless you have a full machine shop and extensive experience, though, it is probably better to buy one from a registered manufacturer.
|
|
300LW is offline
|
|
|
05-19-2008, 19:25
|
#14
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,810
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300LW
There is nothing wrong with building your own suppressor, as long as you first file an ATF Form 1. Keep in mind that any part of a suppressor is considered a registered part. You cannot make any extra baffles, wipes, tubes, etc. Follow the rules and stay within the law. Unless you have a full machine shop and extensive experience, though, it is probably better to buy one from a registered manufacturer.
|
Did you not get a registration message with instructions when you signed-up here, or do you feel they do not apply to you?
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
|
|
The Reaper is offline
|
|
|
05-20-2008, 08:13
|
#15
|
|
Asset
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 4
|
I was certain that I had posted an introduction, but was apparently thinking about my public profile. Memory's not what it used to be.  I apologize.
|
|
300LW is offline
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:01.
|
|
|
Linear Mode
