What do you all think of U.S.M.A and R.O.T.C officers?

Silent Storm151 · 02-15-2008, 07:03

Hello everyone, the topic is pretty self explanatory, the reason I ask is because I am currently a candidate for West Point, as well as a 4 year A.R.O.T.C scholarship winner, my main goal is to be the best officer possible. It should be noted that this topic is open to anybody with any sort of military experience. While I have been researching what makes a good officer, I want to know what you all think.

Thanks.

longrange1947 · 02-15-2008, 07:11

The man NOT the school makes the officer.

Go the route that you feel comfortable with and don't worry about which will make you a better officer. All will give you the basic tools. If you go the route you think others want then you will not be comfortable and you will not learn properly.

The one thing to do though, is look at yourself and see if you need discipline, if you need the discipline then go West Point. IF you can discipline yourself, then go whatever route is your choice.

The old ring knocker, you must be a Point Grad to be any good and make General is no longer even close to true. There are West Point Grads that do not make it to LTC and there are OCS grads that were former enlisted that wear two and three stars.

My two cents, I am sure more will stop by and add to this, just remember that it is your life and we can only point the different routes and give advise based on OUR experience and life.

You have to live your life and gain your experiences. Otherwise the trip is not worth it.

PSYOP Rob · 02-15-2008, 07:27

The man NOT the school makes the officer.

That right there is the gospel truth! In the big world nobody cares how you got your commission, they will care about what you do with it once its yours. You want to go to West Point because of its storied tradition and start living a military life right now, have at it. If you want to go to San Diego State because they have hot chicks and its near the beach, rock on. Once they pin your bars on, then you are officially on the clock and you get judged by what you bring to the party, and it better be good.

**Kyobanim** · 02-15-2008, 08:26

FWIW,

I've been out a long while but with keeping in mind; what I remember of the officers I served under, I will offer this piece of advice: Just because you went to college and are an officer doesn't mean you know everything. Listen to your troops. They will help make you a better officer.

Penn · 02-15-2008, 09:15

Long term, 10 years out, the credentials of a top tier school opens many doors. As an employer, if I have the pleasure of choosing btw two remarkable individuals, the one from a service academy has the opportunity enhanced. While the other school may be important, West Point instills a unique set of skills that in comparison are not matched by other school's ROTC programs.

PSYOP Rob · 02-15-2008, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penn

Long term, 10 years out, the credentials of a top tier school opens many doors. As an employer, if I have the pleasure of choosing btw two remarkable individuals, the one from a service academy has the opportunity enhanced. While the other school may be important, West Point instills a unique set of skills that in comparison are not matched by other school's ROTC programs.

And that may be one of the true benefits of going to an Academy, employers like the sound of it.
But if you are as stated earlier only concerned with being the best officer possible, its what you do after school is out that matters. Me, I'd go for a school with excellent academics, a kickass sports program, and hot chicks, somewhere warm, but thats just me. Enjoy your time in college, once its over big green will send you someplace where ticks and red cockaded woodpeckers will outnumber the sorority girls 1,000,000 to 1

jwt5 · 02-15-2008, 09:52

Much like LongRange said, it's not the school.

That being said, there is a noticeable difference between those who went to the Academy and those who went the ROTC route. In my limited experience, most of the ROTC grads I met only went through ROTC for the scholarship and are just there because they have to be. Some where more concerned about getting out and getting a good job then they were about taking care of their soldiers. (Not all)

Where as the two Academy grads I served under WANTED to be there and it showed.

Like posted previously, take a look at yourself and see where you think you need to be.

Good luck.

JGarcia · 02-15-2008, 09:53

You really have to ask yourself what you want to do with your education. Officers don't wear signs that say USMA, ROTC, VMI, etc. As it was said earlier it just depends on the man, not the education.

I had a PL once, West Point Grad that couldnt write checks at the PX anymore, I had a CO - also West Point that wasnt allowed to drive a vehicle on post anymore, he had to ride a bicycle to work. But I've also had PL's from West Point that were awe inspiring, and the best officer I ever had the priviledge of working for was a former enlisted ranger - now that man I would follow to hell and back - he was an ROTC guy.

So it really does depend on the man. If you become an officer indentify the NCO's that other NCO's respect, admire, or try to emulate. Keep them in mind when you need to learn something or ask questions, solicit their advice and suggestions. If you're lucky one of these types of NCO's will be your PSG. The bad thing about being an officer is that as soon as you get good at being a PL or a CO you get re-assigned somewhere else, there are always those few that seem to know what they are doing from day one.

Silent Storm151 · 02-15-2008, 10:41

First I would like to thank everyone for posting and sharing their opinions and knowledge. In all likeliness I will probably end up going the route of ROTC because lets be realistic, getting into a service Academy is incredibly hard. However, should I make it into a service academy you can bet that's where I will be. Like I said my goal is to become the best officer possible and not to seem full of myself, but when I set my mind to something I find that I always accomplish it. On a more final note, I should be hearing from U.S.M.A soon, so time will tell.

Opinions, stories, and experiences are still very welcome, thanks everyone!

Aequitas · 02-15-2008, 10:53

I went to WP and if you have any questions feel free to PM me. Also, just b/c it is hard to get in don't sell yourself short. You need to try b/c the worst thing they can tell you is no. Good luck with your journey!

Silent Storm151 · 02-15-2008, 10:55

Thanks sir!, PM inbound.

Stay Safe,
TJ

02-15-2008, 11:21

West Point. I recommend "A Soldier's Heart" by Elizabeth Samet. She is a professor who came to the Point to teach, and the book is an excellent read, and will really go a long way toward explaining the difference in ROTC and USMA.

**Razor** · 02-15-2008, 11:36

Both commissioning sources (as well as the unmentioned OCS) produce their share of outstanding officers and oxygen thieves alike. There is a slight advantage to service academies over ROTC for those with no Army experience in that you leave with four years of experience in dealing with leadership, accountability, service ettiquette, responsibility and fitness as a lifestyle. This advantage is only temporary, however. Once you're commissioned and enter the "real" Army, personal ambition and drive to become a better leader will even the playing field between commissioning sources in short order, in many cases, less than a year.

I qualified for a 4 year ROTC scholarship and was appointed to USMA. I chose USMA because of their strong engineering program, the school's reputation, and the "full immersion" into a military lifestyle. I don't regret it at all, but I also realize that I missed out on a great deal of the more enjoyable aspects of going to college. Instead, I have lifelong friendships and bonds with many of my classmates that were created in an environment of demanding standards and pressure to perform, and those kinds of bonds tend to have longevity.

RTK · 02-15-2008, 11:42

I'm an ROTC product, which, coupled with a quarter, will get me a refill at 7-11. After you raise your right hand the first time, it doesn't matter.

COL Moroney put it best a while back, IMHO:

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...cer#post180380

"I was a soldier that happened to be an officer"

I think once you step outside of that mindset, then you're destined for failure. We officers are appointed because of the path we took - that's it.

This isn't a "me," "I," or "my" industry. This is all about the team. Words like "we" and "us" should surround any accomplishments.

I remember a quote from football coach Paul "Bear" Bryant that epitomizes leadership in my mind:

"If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, then we did it. If anything goes really good, then you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games."

We do nothing by ourselves and accomplish nothing without our NCOs and Soldiers. Those that remember that fact do quite well. Those that believe their commissioning paperwork was a gift from God that gave them this mysterious "greater-than-everyone" leadership ability fail quickly. Just because an "O" precedes your paygrade does not entitle you to respect, honor, or extraordinary ability.

All that is earned and learned through the close interactions with stellar non-commissioned officers who teach you what right looks like.

If you remember that, it doesn't matter where you go to school.

swpa19 · 02-15-2008, 12:17

Every previous post pretty much covers it. Ive worked with officers from all three avenues. Good, Bad and Indifferent. The consensus of the board is correct. Its the individual. The CG of SF Command is an R.O.T.C. grad of a small college (then) University(now). A very, very large 5th Gp. Major (retired as a Ltc) told me once. "Some commanders DEMAND respect, Others COMMAND it". Its strictly up to you and your efforts to decide which category you will fall under. Good Luck.