SFSC pre-shoot

longrange1947 · 02-13-2008, 17:02

Guys - Make sure that the students coming to our school can shoot. We have a very simple pre-shoot that must be passed to get in. It is simply three of five, five round groups within 1.25 inches, outside to outside at 25 meters. We have new M4s with BUIS s for this shoot and we test the weapons first to insure it can be done and not the weapon screwing up.

Don't get the boot because you can't group. You would be surprised at the number that have lost basic marksmanship skills.

Justinmd · 02-13-2008, 20:42

What is SFSC exactly? Is that what used to be SOTIC? I heard some things like that were going on over there.
Justin

longrange1947 · 02-14-2008, 05:22

Special Operations Target Interdiction Course (SOTIC) became the Special Forces Sniper Course (SFSC) last year by order of the General.

AxeMan · 02-14-2008, 06:11

LR1947,
Thanks for the posting. One guy on my team failed the initial shoot last year. He didn't know anything about it until three days prior. I am sending a guy this year and we have a range on our compound so he can work on this while we are deployed. A couple of questions for you:
Are the BUIS the issue top rail, or an aftermarket flip-up sight?
Are they shooting prone?
Supported or unsupported?
Time standard for the 5 shots?
Regular green tip 5.56?

Any part of this you can reveal would be great. I will get this guy on the range and get him prepared.

**Razor** · 02-14-2008, 21:12

If it makes anyone feel any better, to earn the Rifle Shooting merit badge, a Boy Scout has to shoot five groups of five rounds each within a 1.125" circle at 50 feet with a .22 rifle.

longrange1947 · 02-15-2008, 07:00

Axeman - The position is prone supported on a sandbag and the BUIS is the issue ones we use at SFAR. The time limit eludes me right now. It is plenty of time to fire the rounds. Keep track of where you fire the rounds as we have guys the shoot four and six sometimes as they forget what they are doing (attention to detail). The rounds do not have to be on the aim point only a group, we do not care where that group is located. We use the "zero target silhouette" as the aim point. Ammunition is green tip but will use 77gr when we have it.

Main thing is that the shooter has the basic marksmanship ability to group his weapon.

Razor - That reinforces what we are saying, to shoot expert, you must be able to shoot a tight group. They all have paperwork claiming expert, we are just having them "show us".

Psywar1-0 · 02-15-2008, 10:31

This thread made me to measure the zero circle on a M16A2 zero target, which is 1 5/8s outside to outside measured on the Horizontal center line, and just slighty larger Vertical.

Im going to suggest that the FTU folks do this exercise as an opening to the DM course they teach. Makes a whole lot of sense to do this, instead of just scoring in the top (95%?) on the M4 qual.

Now its off to the range, Thanks for giving me something to do other than eat a greasy burger at lunch

Dragbag036 · 05-09-2008, 17:00

Looks like the shoot is starting to get around. we had an 84% pass rate

. Now if the guys could only realize that its a school to learn a skill and trade craft, not so the instructor can be your friend. Our purpose is to give the QP the necessary skill to kill in combat from long distance as well as various other techniques that we teach in the course now. Any who... I think the CoC is getting the point now, make sure your guys truly are suited for the job, not just because he has down time to waste.

thats just my .02 cents

cowboykpy · 05-19-2008, 14:45

The one thing other instructors and I joked about at the Guard Sniper School was you figured out pretty quick who pencil whipped their rifle qual when it takes a class of 25 two hours to zero an M24.

It wasn't a Guard specific problem either. We had plenty of AD guys come through with multiple deployments under their belt who'd lost some of the basic fundamentals.

We'd end up spending the entire first week on the range reteaching things students should have already been doing, while trying to teach them how to shoot movers.

Unfortunately, we didn't have the time or resources to implement an M4 zero and qual to the POI or get Benning to add it when I worked there.

Thanks for the info Longrange. PM inbound.

kgoerz · 05-19-2008, 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by longrange1947

Special Operations Target Interdiction Course (SOTIC) became the Special Forces Sniper Course (SFSC) last year by order of the General.

Thats a travesty

longrange1947 · 05-19-2008, 17:22

Should have heard me, Dragbag can attest to my comments on the "change". Not really very polite.

Psywar1-0 · 05-19-2008, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by longrange1947

Should have heard me, Dragbag can attest to my comments on the "change". Not really very polite.

But your soon to have a new general right? So it can change back......

mcarey · 05-20-2008, 12:06

Longrange1947 - I guess our SOTIC coins are collectors items! Did you get a SFSC coin made yet?

I need to come by sometime, let me know on a PM when it is a good time for me to stop by your office.

longrange1947 · 05-20-2008, 16:57

Yep, got a new SFSC coin a while back, just kept the numbering going from the last SOTIC coin.

PM heading your way.

**18C4V** · 11-03-2009, 18:48

LR,
Any changes to the pre-shoot? I'm sending a guy in the Jan class, I want to make sure he's good to go for the pre-shoot.