State Dept is full of Elitist Selfish Jackasses

[Abu Jack]

[URL="http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=69982"]

This story has me so pissed I can't see straight. I hope they fire the ones that refuse to go.

“It’s one thing if someone believes in what’s going on over there and volunteers, but it’s another thing to send someone over there on a forced assignment,” said Jack Croddy, a senior foreign service officer. “I’m sorry, but basically that’s a potential death sentence and you know it. ... Who will raise our children if we are dead or seriously wounded?”

I don't know how he can take the taxpayers dollars as salary then spew this crap.

The State Department says three foreign service personnel — two diplomatic security agents and one political officer — have been killed in Iraq since the war began in March 2003.

Don't sound like a death sentence to me.

Anyway, Thomas Paine said it best over two hundred years ago.

I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink, but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death. Thomas Paine

These are times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Thomas Paine

Abu Jack

[Roguish Lawyer]

Next time you start a thread, please try to be more candid in the title.

[blacksmoke]

I eat at the Iraq embassy dfac as much as possible. From the interaction I have had with the civilins there I would say most of them are decent people. IMHO The ones who refuse ought to be fired.

[tom kelly]

Another case of a whiner "who is in the rear with the gear"I bet he complains everyday he drives to work about the traffic on the beltway.I hope Sect. Rice deployes Mr. Croddy to the sandbox ASAP...tom kelly

[AGaillard]

I wonder if Jack Croddy asks who raises the children of our fallen military as he undermines their mission from the comfort of Washington DC. If you do not believe in the policy leave. He swore an oath, which is meaningless to people like him, to serve anywhere. Fire them all and start over with good people.

[The Reaper]

Bear in mind that these career federal employees are making a lot more than an E-5 (or even an O-3), living pretty much a sheltered life in the Green Zone, with some fairly significant bonuses being offered as well.

They do have their own union though.

TR

[Goshawk]

I've worked with DOS guys and gals out of embassies in South America and the majority of them are very good, intelligent patriots. Like the military they are required to go where they are needed (needs of the State Department as opposed to needs of the army). Like today's military they are an all volunteer force. They know all this before they get hired on. Unlike the military, if they don't like an assignment they can quit and go find another job somewhere else. If they are not willing to go serve where they are needed to defend and further the interests of the United States they should leave without throwing a temper tantrum like a four year old. They are an embarrassment to their collegues and the rest of the State Department. It doesn't matter if they agree with the war or not, that's irrelevant, they still are required to do their job as representatives of the United States and give 110% in the process. They should be honored that they are among the few that are qualified to go. It just goes to show that it's not our nation, not even our government at war, it's just the military at war.

[Warrior-Mentor]

I also had a visceral to this ... especially the "it's a virtual death sentence." crap.

3 dead...in how many YEARS? Would like to see how many State Department folks have died in that same period from car accidents or heart attacks.

"...and who will take car of our children."

You sorry piece of shit. Who takes care of military service members children? I would have loved to have been on that podium. "Is your life more important than that of our service members?" He couldn't answer it honestly (clearly he believes it is).

[60_Driver]

I've also worked with quite a few State people in LATAM. Most aren't bad for civvies.

I don't care for a general assumption I've noticed among them, that a guy in uniform is a retarded knuckle-dragger.

[82ndtrooper]

Have to admit that when heard this on the news my first thought was "what a bunch of little whiny pansies"

My impression was that of someone talking the talk and then when asked to toe the line, they simply take a powder or begin the pseodo jujitso of "how dare you question my patriotism" That backward walk, sometimes a run for cover under the guise of "I'm better than this, he's a neanderthal for trying to toe the line with me" This person does not toe the line, he avoids it at all costs and reverts to hoping that his colleagues or friends see him as "More mature"

Personally I enjoy the man that toes the line when asked. Puts forth his best effort and still kicks when down. I have much more respect for at least keeping ones dignity even if it means failing somewhat in the process.

Just my .02

[x-factor]

A couple facts to add to the argument:

- Since 2003, 1500 State department employees have volunteered to go to Iraq. In a department of only about 11,500 people already spread all over the world thats more than 1 in 10.

- 3 dead out of 1500 is 1:500. By comparison, (if my estimates are right) about 500,000 soldiers have been deployed to Iraq at one point or another since 2003 with about 4000 dead. Thats about 1:125. Not a death sentence in either case, but certainly (and unsurprisingly) more dangerous to be a soldier.

- The people at State Department are still very bitter over the way they percieve Powell was treated. Powell was tremendously popular at State for the soldierly way he "took care of his people." In a recent survey only 12% believed that Secretary Rice was looking out for them. This backlash has to do with more than just directed assignments to Iraq. It has to do with the overall intra-department relations between the political appointees at the top and the career service folks.

- If State employees seem more hesitant about going its not necessarily because they're cowards. They are not trained or prepared to face physical danger. Soldiers spend their entire professional existence being trained and equiped to operate in combat zones. State department folks receive almost no training at all. I'm not sure if FSOs in danger/war zones even carry a weapon. (I don't think they do, but one of you might know for sure.)

Furthermore, when a soldier goes over he goes as part of a cohesive unit. When a State guy goes over he goes over as an individual. They're entirely dependent on their security forces (esp Blackwater) who they've never met or worked with and which are at times suspect due to lack of numbers and many other issues discussed here.

How would you feel about going to Iraq if you were going over by yourself, with no weapon, and only rudimentary training and told "don't worry, the Blackwater guys will protect you"?

Point being, the State folks have some legitimate concerns in play here. Its not just State Department being soft, elitist, etc.

That said, my own opinion is that the guy quoted in the first post is pathetic. If you want to raise substantive issues about training or security shortfalls, that is your right and responsibility, but to stand up just to go on some petulant harangue of no substantive value to the mission is incredibly lame.

Tell me what you need to be able to go, don't just tell me you can't go.

[Guy]

x-factor:

Remember where you are posting! This site has qualified individuals who are more than capable: to travel the world alone!

Maybe the DoS should consider more veterans with certain skill-sets in their selection process?

Stay safe.

[x-factor]

Guy - My point exactly!

I think Iraq has been an real wake up call for State on what it means to practice diplomacy (especially the diplomatic component of COIN as talked about in the other thread) in semi-permissive and non-permissive environments. At the very least, I would think they'll plus up their protective service by hiring some of the more qualified guys back from the PMCs.

[GratefulCitizen]

Originally Posted by Guy

x-factor:

Remember where you are posting! This site has qualified individuals who are more than capable: to travel the world alone!

Maybe the DoS should consider more veterans with certain skill-sets in their selection process?

Stay safe.

Duncan Hunter has a proposal along these lines.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=58494

[Guy]

x-factor:

You don't learn how to practice diplomacy in "semi-permissive and non-permissive" environments; In college.

Stay safe.