Additions to the 18C course.

exsquid · 08-20-2007, 15:58

As my time in the 18C course starts to wind down I have begun writing my end of course critique EOCC. I have a list of things I would like to see added to the POI, but I would like input from guys who have BTDT to compare my list with. So for you experienced guys, what skills would you like to see junior engineers show up with that they currently do not?

x/S

**18C4V** · 08-21-2007, 09:54

I'm breaking in a new jr. It's the admin stuff that he needs help in. Ie knowledge in computers to do the endless inventories among the other paper work that drives the team.

Buy a laptop you'll need one to do work on it. You should be shadowing your sr and you should know where every item is in your team room, ISU, to include the arms room.

Come into the team room quiet and humble and don't beat your chest. The stuff you know that you can add to the table will come out. For example my jr is our combatives instructor since he was on the SWC's combative team.

SF18C · 08-21-2007, 16:36

exsquid,

I may be too many years removed from the course but one thing that I see now that is an issue is power generation. I know that when I went through we seemed to have the two extremes, how does a coal plant work vs. how to do local wiring in a house. But these days with all the commo gear and various C2 devises that require electricity what do they teach about generators, tapping local sites for electricity, figuring electrical power requirements for a team, FOB, or MSS. Yeah most of this stuff could be dumped on the Echo but chances are the Team Sgt is going to come looking for you, the Mighty Charlie to solve the teams electrical needs.

Good luck on your team!

Matta mile · 08-21-2007, 17:18

The ability to break down some of the more technical concepts into an easily translated block of instruction for translators and those with little knowledge of the engish language so they may benefit fully and quickly.
Best of luck and congrats!
MM

**Jack Moroney (RIP)** · 08-21-2007, 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by exsquid

I have a list of things I would like to see added to the POI,

Now don't take this the wrong way, but this makes me smile. You do realize that the current POI is driven by, among other things, in put from the Groups. There are many things we all wanted to put into the POI in each of the branch courses, however what you get is basically the initial skill sets that will allow you to cross the threshold of your team room door. Your real maturation and skill development is going to happen on your team in accordance with the mission profiles and demands of your area of operations. While I always valued EOCCs, those that had the biggest impact were the ones that talked to how effectively you were able to learn what was being taught, what the training distractors were, how well we did meeting the course goals and standards we set for you, among others.

kgoerz · 08-21-2007, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by 18C4V

I'm breaking in a new jr. It's the admin stuff that he needs help in. Ie knowledge in computers to do the endless inventories among the other paper work that drives the team.

Buy a laptop you'll need one to do work on it. You should be shadowing your sr and you should know where every item is in your team room, ISU, to include the arms room.

Come into the team room quiet and humble and don't beat your chest. The stuff you know that you can add to the table will come out. For example my jr is our combatives instructor since he was on the SWC's combative team.

First thing I would start doing once I settled in. Start digging, snooping and organizing. I always made it a habit to know where everything was in that Team Room. I knew I was good to go when someone would yell out "How the Fu$*k did you know where that was" Team Rooms are not as big as most people think. Next thing I would do is take over the Team Fund and start making Money. Start selling Hats, Mugs or T-shirts. Once you had enough stock built up. You could start giving VIPS and people you trained with good gifts.
Best idea I ever saw. When a VIP would show up to get a Range Demo. We would get a group picture with him, tell him it would be emailed later. The camera man would disappear behind the Range shed where they had a printer plugged in. Print it out, put it in a Frame. Then give it to the VIP before he left.
Guys retiring always got the best. My last three assignments guys retiring off the Team were presented Guns. Nothing to high speed. But a 30/30 lever action with the guys name, active dates and SF logo engraved. Beat a plaque any day.
Only thing that ever rubbed me wrong were people asking for cash. They just assumed they were going to get a $390 gift and wanted money instead. First time I was told to hand someone cash I thought it was a joke. Maybe two or three guys ever saw this as being wrong. The rest saw nothing wrong with it, I was always out voted.
Worst ever was my first week on a Team, fresh out of the QC. Saw a guy who was getting ready to ETS. Wanted to use the Team Fund and design his own Plaque. I remember thinking, glad this winner is getting out. To myself of course. They let him do it. Biggest plaque I ever saw.
Giving the Rifle was the best. Most guys never saw it coming. Especially at their Team Party. To this day, I never look at the ones who took cash the same way. Never was about money to begin with.

**The Reaper** · 08-21-2007, 20:23

As the Colonel noted, adding something comes at a cost.

For every hour you add, soimething else has to come out.

What training would you remove to add what you recommend?

KG, I am with you. I never saw anyone ask for money, that is just wrong. Next month, the money is gone and you have nothing left but memories. Plaques are nice. Guns are better.

TR

exsquid · 08-22-2007, 16:42

Thanks for all your replies, the input is greatly appreciated and valued. IRT to Reaper's comment, I do not advocate removing any areas of concentration. IMO the course as currently taught is way too short. I think the course should be much longer, and I can honestly say I have heard almost every member of the cadre voice that opinion as well. The cadre keep telling us that the headshed takes our imput seriously so I figure why not shoot for the stars when asking for more training. In the end it is not going to benefit me and I do not expect much to change, but at least I tried to make it better for the guys behind me. Thanks again.

x/S

**The Reaper** · 08-22-2007, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by exsquid

Thanks for all your replies, the input is greatly appreciated and valued. IRT to Reaper's comment, I do not advocate removing any areas of concentration. IMO the course as currently taught is way too short. I think the course should be much longer, and I can honestly say I have heard almost every member of the cadre voice that opinion as well. The cadre keep telling us that the headshed takes our imput seriously so I figure why not shoot for the stars when asking for more training. In the end it is not going to benefit me and I do not expect much to change, but at least I tried to make it better for the guys behind me. Thanks again.

x/S

After working in SWCS for six years total, having sat on numerous curriculum review boards, and spending two years running SF Engineer training, I can tell you that is not a realistic view. I have seen plenty of critiques suggesting that, but it has never been seriously considered.

In fact, if anything, leadership is probably trying to figure out how to make the course shorter, not longer.

TR

exsquid · 08-23-2007, 19:28

Reaper:

That is pretty much what I figured, but hey, at least I voiced my opinion. I will find a way to get the training I need. Some guys just are not as creative or resourcefull. Thanks again for your input.

x/S

MtnGoat · 08-25-2007, 09:02

As a 18C getting to your first ODA.. like its has been posted. Sit back, read the team out, don't get out of shape.. time to get in better shape and find out what the ODA all has as far as the equipment. If your single its ten times better, you will need to burn some midnight oil learning what every thing is on the ODA hand receipt.

1- EOCA course. With all of the UXO and IED stuff going this is a good 18C course. Hazards Devices School (HDS) is also and other good one to go to.

2- Electrical training. I feel that during TO block they don't cover electrical power sources enough. I saw three different ODAs at two different fire Bases not knowing how to fix there Generators when they went down. Called a local to come and fix them. Great, but if you can do it. It can be faster. SO many students leave the 18C-Q not knowing how to wire up a generator to a house. During the course you build one TO building and you didn't even get to go over to that every "part" of the work site. SO you lost out on the some of the training. They need to add in 4-5 Generator at the build site so that every student can see if not do a wiring set-up on a generator to provide a power source. Go to your local College and sign up for a basic electric class. It will pay off on most FB so you don't have to wait around for KBR or a local national.

3- Computer skills. Most have a laptop if you don't get one like posted. Skill Soft on AKO will help you here or get that video professor program. You need to know WORD, Power Point and EXCELL and a 18C. ACCESS work great for your ODA property account ability and tracking team gear.

3- Sometimes a good welding class helps out down range. But, that's up to your Grps AOR.

Guess what exsquid even the instructors on the Committee want to add more time and subject matter. Can't get more time to the total course hours. So who (instructor) will give up time to provide more time for a new subject or add to another one. Thats what CTRB are for and yes something just stay around (TA) that we don't really use OCONUS. Remember all you students; Q-course is the basic course to make you a 18 series. So you need to go to additional schooling for your MOS. At your local College to military schools and ANCOC. SWTG teaches you enough to know how to operator within your MOS to support your Groups AOR and your ODA its mission.

VG