M3A offset for 500m zero

[KSC]

I recently obtained an M14 w/M3A to take care of some neighborhood pests we've been dealing with. I got some great holdoffs for a 500m point of aim/point of impact, but, given my living conditions I don't have a 500m range available aside from the two-way variety.

So my question(which I, of course forgot to ask the B4s), using M80 ball(I know), what would my offset be on a 25m short stop or can I obtain close enough results using something 50m or shorter?

I'm not going to be using it for HVT hits or anything like that. I'm pretty confident in my range estimation, which I do using mil-relation. Since most of the times I've ever needed one it's been in the sub 400m range, I'm confident that the M80 rounds will be sufficient.

[82ndtrooper]

Are you referring the the McMillon M3A stock system ?

[The Reaper]

I do not advocate pest control with a 7.62 unless they are over 200 lbs. and in a rural setting.

You may want to chat with a local LE member and see how they will react to a report that someone is firing a "big gun" near their home.

If you are currently deployed and are using this for sanctioned two-legged pest control, disregard and carry on.

TR

[Gene Econ]

Originally Posted by KSC

I recently obtained an M14 w/M3A to take care of some neighborhood pests we've been dealing with. I got some great holdoffs for a 500m point of aim/point of impact, but, given my living conditions I don't have a 500m range available aside from the two-way variety. So my question(which I, of course forgot to ask the B4s), using M80 ball(I know), what would my offset be on a 25m short stop or can I obtain close enough results using something 50m or shorter? I'm not going to be using it for HVT hits or anything like that. I'm pretty confident in my range estimation, which I do using mil-relation. Since most of the times I've ever needed one it's been in the sub 400m range, I'm confident that the M80 rounds will be sufficient.

KSC:

Well, seeing as you are blasting M-80 from what is probably a service grade M-14 whose barrel has probably been trashed already, zero your M-3A optic point of aim / impact at 25 meters using 300 on the optic if the BDC is calibrated for M-118. I am betting it will be within 1 1/2 minute up or down at 500. This isn't linear.

You will also find that M-80 doesn't go 2800 fps from an M-14. Maybe 2750 but most likely between 2700 and 2750. So things can get problematic but you will find very little difference in trajectories of M-80 and M-118 to 500 M anyway so due to all of these small problems, I still predict you will be within + - 1 1/2 minutes at 500.

Gene

[KSC]

82nd- Nah, the M3A mildot scope.

Reaper, sorry, I was talking about the IED emplacing, pot shot taking pests.

Gene- 1.5 sounds good to me. 8 inch strike area at 500m gives me about 5 inches on either side to play with. I like to range Iraqis as having 18 inch shoulders over the 20 inch ivans. Probably better off calling it 17.

[Gene Econ]

Originally Posted by KSC

82nd- Nah, the M3A mildot scope. Reaper, sorry, I was talking about the IED emplacing, pot shot taking pests. Gene- 1.5 sounds good to me. 8 inch strike area at 500m gives me about 5 inches on either side to play with. I like to range Iraqis as having 18 inch shoulders over the 20 inch ivans. Probably better off calling it 17.

KSC:

Sometimes you find a BDC for M-80 in the deployment kit if you have one.

What I gave you is sufficient for your spotter to easily read your trace at 500 so your best bet is to find something that is 500M and after you zero at short range, take a couple of shots at 500 with good calls and work with your spotter to get a better zero.

Short range zeros are not a good idea to trust for life or death situations.

Not sure if you are using a service grade or Supermatch. Do you know?

Gene

[KSC]

Nah, we're using delinked M80 ball. There's no M118 special ball or long range available right now- sad, deffinetly sad.

[Gene Econ]

Originally Posted by KSC

Nah, we're using delinked M80 ball. There's no M118 special ball or long range available right now- sad, deffinetly sad.

KSC:

Not what I 'axed'. Let me 'axe' you 'pacifically'. Are you shooting rack grade or Supermatch M-14's?

You would be surprised at how well M-80 can shoot in a Supermatch.

Gene

[Gene Econ]

Originally Posted by KSC

Nah, we're using delinked M80 ball. There's no M118 special ball or long range available right now- sad, deffinetly sad.

KSC:

Oh yes -- sorry -- but 'Nah' isn't polite. My name is Gene. Not 'Nah'.

If I ask a question, I always say 'thank you'. It pays sometime and somewhere.

I am polite to my fellow professionals here, be they Servicemen, Servicewomen, LEA, or Civilians. I start my posts to them with their names -- not "Nah".

So, be a professional. You have the time -- let me assure you. LR1947 and I have shot more White Box M-118 Match out of M-14's than you have shot M-80. In fact, we have shot more damn M-80, 852, 118 SB, and 118 LR out of about every generation of M-14 known to man than you have.

So be polite -- you have the time.

Thank you

Gene

[Tacticalinterve]

Major Econ, hard for me to call you Gene. but I bet that beats Nah?

I have been working on something new for you to play with. Give me a month and it will be ready.

[Gene Econ]

Originally Posted by Tacticalinterve

Major Econ, hard for me to call you Gene. but I bet that beats Nah? I have been working on something new for you to play with. Give me a month and it will be ready.

MM:

You bet it beats 'nah'.

Can't wait myself. Deep into the match season you know but always time to play with new things.

Gene

[HOLLiS]

Originally Posted by Gene Econ

LR1947 and I have shot more White Box M-118 Match out of M-14's than you have shot M-80. In fact, we have shot more damn M-80, 852, 118 SB, and 118 LR out of about every generation of M-14 known to man than you have.


Thank you

Gene

Make note to self, Self you need to shoot more and computer less. Take your 14's out of the safe and heat them up.

Great read, thank you everyone.

H.

[regular guy]

Just in case any more SDM's or sniper teams minus the new SR-25 come searching for more info on their 14's, I would love to add to the forum. The 14 that is on typical line companies varies, any where from 1-3 MOA (per the schoolhouse, and AMU) depending on the SWS itself. Just as Mr. Gene Econ said, the barrel is going to be beat. To ensure you get the 850 M the M-21 book says you can, you need the match grade barrel. The trigger assembly gets re-done if it does have the match grade barrel too. If that is the case, you sir, have halfway to a 21 SWS. The only real thing left is the match grade sights, which the peep hole will be tiny. If you put a leupold 5X at a minimum that qualifies as the m-21.

Sage Tactical makes a rail kit for $900 that is completely worthless, except that you can put a PEQ-2 on it so you don't have to carry 2 weapon systems for day and night. Yet the Army insisted on spending thousands on it. The cheek weld is beyond awkward and hand position is unnatural. So avoid it if there are possible other options. But if unit SOP's dictate you need it, i guess adapt and overcome.

If you get all of the aforementioned goodies, even still the weapon can have issues grouping. Cold bore might be fine, but give the weapon some use and see what it does.

Everyone wants to look as high speed as they can, and I see too many line company E-5's and E-6's carrying the SWS thinking that they are now qualified to shoot it, when they can't even tell me the formula for elevation, much less the definition of an MOA. If you are not intimately familiar with the weapon, as in your DOPE book looks like a Dr. Seuss book, then I highly advise leave it at home. If you don't even know what DOPE is leave it in the armory. Max effective range of the M-4 is 500 M, and a JDAM is infinite.