Iran fuel rations spark violence

[BMT (RIP)]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6243644.stm





BMT

[nmap]

It's good that they're experiencing some instability - still...I can't help but think that the activities with Hamas in Gaza, combined with this, hint at some larger strategy.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by nmap

It's good that they're experiencing some instability - still...I can't help but think that the activities with Hamas in Gaza, combined with this, hint at some larger strategy.

Nmap,

As one American officer stated when the unit he was commanding met the enemy in 2003 war with saddam hussein and his cronies and he reported his status;

"We have engaged the enemy, they are determined, yet stupid"

The only strategy they employ is terror and violence, they can plan no-further than the end of their noses. They are nothing more than tribes that when not fighting with the rest of the world will fight amongst themselves. This has been going on for over two thousand years with no end in sight. A bee-hive is more organized and enjoys a higher collective IQ. Ever really wondered why the insurgents iraq have employed such a high number of IED’s rather than fight American soldiers face to face?

You might find it interesting the number of foreign workers in the wealthy middle eastern countries as compared to the actual natives of those countries. Without foreigners most would still be desert nomads. Ninety nine percent of everything they have was built by foreign construction companies.

Being some of the richest countries on the planet have you ever heard of the middle eastern space program? How about the middle east car company? Aerospace? Besides oil I cannot think of one industry they as a collective they are involved in.

I do find it amusing that iran does not possess the refineries needed to support its own fuel requirements and would rather focus its efforts on building an atomic bomb than building these much needed refineries. Another shining example of middle eastern islamic ideology.

We need to end our middle east oil dependency ASAP. We need to stop funding those that would see us destroyed.

Team Sergeant

[x-factor]

A couple facts to add to TS's statements:

Only 4% of Saudi exports are non-petroleum products. Most of those are specialty foodstuffs (dates, for example) and assorted cultural arts and crafts.

In 1989 foreigners accounted for 79% of Saudi labor. That total has since come down due to efforts by the government, but it is still incredibly high.

Literacy in Saudi Arabia is about 70% for men and 50% for women. (Bear in mind that the measure for literacy varies widely from study to study. In much of the world its simply being able to write your own name.) Those women who are allowed educational opportunities do statistically much better than the men.

Of those Saudis (and by that I mean natives, not the imported technical experts from Pakistan, India, China, and the West) who do get higher educations most major in religious studies (or some variant).

[longjon]

I will defer to those with more varied experience in the region... but look at who is manning the majority of the rank and file of many of their militaries as well.

[smp52]

Originally Posted by x-factor

Of those Saudis (and by that I mean natives, not the imported technical experts from Pakistan, India, China, and the West) who do get higher educations most major in religious studies (or some variant).

A madrassa education is considered 'literacy' in the Islamic world.

The only country I see taking any steps of trying to leverage itself in the global economy from that area is the UAE. There may be others, but the bulkof these nations have not invested in any scientific/mathematical/trade education for their populations.

A nation flush with oil like Norway on the other hand, while socialist in it's structure (it works for them due to a small and homogenous population), has been saving up all its oil cash and pumping it into it's own people. It's not being hoarded by the top. Middle eastern royal families are the real life Beverly Hillbillies.

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

I do find it amusing that iran does not possess the refineries needed to support its own fuel requirements and would rather focus its efforts on building an atomic bomb than building these much needed refineries. Another shining example of middle eastern islamic ideology.
....We need to end our middle east oil dependency ASAP. We need to stop funding those that would see us destroyed.

Instead of asking their Russian buddies for a reactor, maybe they could have asked those Russian oil tycoons for some refineries. We've got the worlds largest oil deposits if you count shale oil. Hopefully technology catches up to where we can tap this at reasonable prices.

Originally Posted by smp52

Instead of asking their Russian buddies for a reactor, maybe they could have asked those Russian oil tycoons for some refineries. We've got the worlds largest oil deposits if you count shale oil. Hopefully technology catches up to where we can tap this at reasonable prices.

IIRC the Russians are also in need of new equipment. I think that is pumping, not sure how the refineries are.

[x-factor]

I'd put Qatar and maybe Bahrain in the same developmental category as UAE, but thats a fraction of the world in question.

[nmap]

Team Sergeant wrote:

You might find it interesting the number of foreign workers in the wealthy middle eastern countries as compared to the actual natives of those countries. Without foreigners most would still be desert nomads. Ninety nine percent of everything they have was built by foreign construction companies.

Being some of the richest countries on the planet have you ever heard of the middle eastern space program? How about the middle east car company? Aerospace? Besides oil I cannot think of one industry they as a collective they are involved in.


Thank you, sir. This is exactly the kind of understanding I'm looking for. A lot of facts are available, but there are few distillations of the critical elements.



Team Sergeant wrote:

I do find it amusing that iran does not possess the refineries needed to support its own fuel requirements and would rather focus its efforts on building an atomic bomb than building these much needed refineries. Another shining example of middle eastern islamic ideology.

We need to end our middle east oil dependency ASAP. We need to stop funding those that would see us destroyed.


I agree completely.

One of the lenses I view the world through (some might call it a bias) is energy cost and availability. Back in 1980, Exxon (before they combined with Mobil) was selling at $30 per share and paying $3 per share in dividends. Had someone bought the shares and held them until today, they would have made 16 times their original investment - not counting any of the dividends. Sadly, I wasn't wise enough to do that...but the point is, a large and growing amount of money is going into energy (especially oil) as the US and global economies grow. And much of the flow, as you point out, goes to the Middle East where it funds various bad things.

I suspect that isn't the worst of it. The income from oil has supported a massive increase in population in the region over the past half century. Without oil revenues, that population cannot be sustained - and, in some cases, not even fed. There's a growing body of work (see especially Twilight in the Desert by Simmons) that suggests that the Saudi fields, and perhaps other oil fields in the ME, are peaking - which means they're going to decline in production. Additionally, the various countries are experiencing increased domestic consumption which reduces their exports, hence their export earnings.

So, I ask myself, what happens when a large, young, and growing population hits the economic wall, they're in dire poverty, and largely without hope. I suspect it won't be pleasant. Of course, declining availability of oil could well trigger a sharp U.S. recession, as happened with the oil shock back in the 1970's.

As you point out, the sooner we insulate ourselves from such dependency, the better. I think the time to do so grows short.