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Old 06-19-2007, 09:44   #1
The Reaper
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NYC Poor to Get Cash for Good Behavior

If this isn't evidence of the descent of this country down the toilet of entitlement progams, income redistribution, "bread and the circus", and the leadership in NYC, I do not know what is. Bloomberg for President anyone? Cold hard cash for your vote.

"Poor people are trapped in a cycle of repeated setbacks that keep them from climbing out of poverty." Right.

Follow my modest alternate proposals for success.

1. Stay in school. Study hard and do your best academically.
2. Stay away from drugs and alcohol.
3. Do not plan on a career in professional sports.
4. Do not have babies.
5. Get a job. Work hard.
6. Be responsible.
7. Do not commit crimes.
8. Save your money for important things, like a house, car, etc. Not grilles, not rims, not drugs, not Kristal, not bling.
9. When you have completed these previous steps, get married and have kids. Teach them the same process.
10. Live large and watch your kids succeed and go even farther. Repeat.

I fear that we are living in the last years of the American Dream.

God Bless America.

TR

NYC Poor to Get Cash for Good Behavior

Jun 19, 12:39 AM (ET)

By SARA KUGLER

NEW YORK (AP) - Poor residents will be rewarded for good behavior - like $300 for doing well on school tests, $150 for holding a job and $200 for visiting the doctor - under an experimental anti-poverty program that city officials detailed Monday.

The rewards have been used in other countries, including Brazil and Mexico, and have drawn widespread praise for changing behavior among the poor. Mayor Michael Bloomberg traveled to Mexico this spring to study the healthy lifestyle payments, also known as conditional cash transfers.

In New York, the two-year pilot program with about 14,000 participants will use private funds Bloomberg has raised because he did not want to spend government money on something that is highly experimental. More than $43 million has been raised toward the $53 million goal, Deputy Mayor Linda Gibbs said.

The theory behind cash rewards is that poor people are trapped in a cycle of repeated setbacks that keep them from climbing out of poverty. A person who doesn't keep up with his vaccinations and doctor's visits, for example, may get sick more often and struggle to stay employed.

Bloomberg, a billionaire Republican, said he believes paying people in such circumstances to make good decisions could help break those patterns. The program "gives New Yorkers in poverty a financial incentive to look ahead and make decisions that will improve their prospects for the future," he said in a statement.

But some critics have raised questions about cash reward programs, saying they promote the misguided idea that poor people could be successful if they just made better choices.

"It just reinforces the impression that if everybody would just work hard enough and change their personal behavior we could solve poverty in this country, and that's not reflected in the facts," said Margy Waller, co-founder of Inclusion, a research and policy group in Washington.

Waller, who served as a domestic policy adviser in the Clinton administration, said it would be more effective to focus on labor issues, such as making sure wage laws are enforced and improving benefits for working people.

Among the possible rewards in New York's program are $25 for attending parent-teacher conferences, $25 per month for a child who maintains a 95 percent school attendance record, $400 for graduating high school, $100 for each family member who sees the dentist every six months and $150 a month for adults who work full time.

The World Bank model for cash reward programs in other countries is that the value of the incentive should equal about a third of a household's income to have any lasting influence on changing behavior. The average amount that a family or adult can earn through the rewards each year is about $3,000 to $6,000; a family of three living in poverty earns about $17,000 a year.

Recipients, who are being selected this summer before the program begins in the fall, will be able to have the money deposited directly into their bank accounts. If they don't have accounts, they can get cards that are like debit cards but cannot be overdrawn.

The city is asking the federal government to excuse the payments from being taxed. Participants will be divided into three smaller programs that have different criteria and awards: one for about 2,550 families, one for 2,400 single adults and another for 9,000 children in grades 4 to 7.

To measure the effectiveness of the rewards, control groups of similar size will not be paid but will be studied by participating in regular surveys and reviews from an outside social policy research group, Gibbs said. The control participants will receive small incentives, such as weekly MetroCards for paying bus and subway fares, for their time and trouble.
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Old 06-19-2007, 10:10   #2
SOGvet
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I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit..
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Old 06-19-2007, 13:42   #3
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NYC is a s**t hole. That article is disturbing, what next.
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Old 06-19-2007, 13:49   #4
echoes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
Follow my modest alternate proposals for success.

1. Stay in school. Study hard and do your best academically.
2. Stay away from drugs and alcohol.
3. Do not plan on a career in professional sports.
4. Do not have babies.
5. Get a job. Work hard.
6. Be responsible.
7. Do not commit crimes.
8. Save your money for important things, like a house, car, etc. Not grilles, not rims, not drugs, not Kristal, not bling.
9. When you have completed these previous steps, get married and have kids. Teach them the same process.
10. Live large and watch your kids succeed and go even farther. Repeat.

I fear that we are living in the last years of the American Dream.
God Bless America.
TR
TR--

Very well said Sir. I think if my Grandpa were alive to see this, he would be disgusted! For one thing, I cannot believe they actually believe this sh** that they're shoveling.

It is transparent, IMHO, and shame on those who have enacted this plan!
Hard work for hard-earned money...not no work for buy-off's.

Holly
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Old 06-19-2007, 15:27   #5
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Headline, Teacher busted taking kickbacks from Blomberg's good behavior reward.
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Old 06-19-2007, 15:36   #6
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NYC is the capital of entitlement, which is another reason why I am so happy to be finally leaving this state for good in 5 more days.
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Old 06-19-2007, 16:34   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper

Follow my modest alternate proposals for success.

1. Stay in school. Study hard and do your best academically.
2. Stay away from drugs and alcohol.
3. Do not plan on a career in professional sports.
4. Do not have babies.
5. Get a job. Work hard.
6. Be responsible.
7. Do not commit crimes.
8. Save your money for important things, like a house, car, etc. Not grilles, not rims, not drugs, not Kristal, not bling.
9. When you have completed these previous steps, get married and have kids. Teach them the same process.
10. Live large and watch your kids succeed and go even farther. Repeat.
I'd add one. Don't count on winning the lottery.


Ridiculous proposal, beyond comprehension.
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Old 06-19-2007, 16:56   #8
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Thumbs down

At least he had the decency of using money from private sources instead of taking it from citizens at gunpoint.

My guess is these folks are just going to start making stupid decisions again when they graduate the program and no longer qualify for the "Attaboy Bonus."
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Old 06-19-2007, 17:41   #9
Roguish Lawyer
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I have the pleasure of having to pay New York state income taxes even though I don't live there. I just love doing that.
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Old 06-19-2007, 17:43   #10
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(one of) the cause

the pursuit of instant gratification aka. feelin good

It's a phenomenon of today's modern society, and the conveniences of these day and age only support and perpetuate it further i.e. credit & financing. I worked at a basketball camp years ago and the coach showed me an illustration using a dollar bill, an obstacle, and a $15. Most of the kids would rather do the minimum and get the dollar bill than putting the extra effort to get the latter. This translates to: Why should I work hard for a stable career when I could spend most (or all) of paycheck on the latest "where yo at" mobile and look cool to my peers and feel good already (even for just a brief period). This same mindset is shared by simpleton guys who think with their little head, their gals who just want to cuddle cute babies and get ahead of their peers in the race to first get married, have kids etc. etc. When these folks do not care for their own future, there is no way they give a damn of their society or country.

Solution?

I believe and have observed that when one continually strives to remove oneselves from his/her comfort zone, he or she becomes a responsible and productive member of society in no time. No matter what one's nature and nurture are, he/she has the freedom to choose. OK, choosing = having initiative, so probably the choice will have to be made for these folks. Not sure if the rewards program is actually removing them from their comfort zone. Another solution is role model. Some athletes are doing that, but not everyone belong in the professional sports.

Well, so which state will follow NY rewards program next? Louisiana?
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Last edited by frostfire; 06-19-2007 at 17:47.
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Old 06-19-2007, 18:08   #11
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer
I have the pleasure of having to pay New York state income taxes even though I don't live there. I just love doing that.
RL--
Okay...I give. How come? That doesn't seem right. (Forgive me if I am asking a stupid question...lack of sleep etc...)

Holly
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Old 06-19-2007, 18:34   #12
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This is great, more socialist programs (even if it isn't government money) ...

Have any of these folks given micro credit schemes a shot? Last year's Nobel Prize winner is a pioneer in micro credit. I found their setup quite interesting. Instead of giving money away, you provide small loans to poor folks, who other people have essentially vouched for (a trust worthy person), and people use that to establish themselves.

I don't know if such a scheme would be feasible here, but it definitely reinforces the right attitudes of hard work, NO free money, and being independent/industrious. Above all, it empowered poor women (who apparently pay back micro loans vs poor men).
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Old 06-19-2007, 18:49   #13
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To measure the effectiveness of the rewards, control groups of similar size will not be paid but will be studied by participating in regular surveys and reviews from an outside social policy research group, Gibbs said.
I'll make a prediction. With this large a test group, there will be sufficient power to show statistical significance - which is not necessarily the same as practical significance. Scholarly papers will be written, and soon the premise will be accepted doctrine.

Based on that, advocates of the program will force through a new entitlement program, funded through taxation.

And so the decline of the dollar and economy continues as we squander the wealth of past generations and choose the path of national oblivion.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:21   #14
longjon
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If this could be worked into a credit program, similar to the ridiculous "carbon credit" program, I'm all for it. I'll pay for his good behavior through buying the right to engage in "bad" behavior.

In other words, if I could pay $300 for the right to slap the taste out of the next loser's mouth I see holding a "Wounded Vitenam Vet" (misspelling on my part intentional, his... not so much) sign and wearing chocolate chips with a glider badge and row of ribbons he stole from the Army/Navy store, it would all be worth it.

The fact that the term "entitlement society" even exists will likely mark the beginning of the end.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:48   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echoes
RL--
Okay...I give. How come? That doesn't seem right. (Forgive me if I am asking a stupid question...lack of sleep etc...)

Holly
If his legal residence is in NY but he works out of Ca. then he has to pay both state income taxes, but can write the Ca. tax bill off on his NY state income tax return. I don't know RL's situation but I used to live in NY and my firm moved to NJ so I got bagged both both state taxes. It stinks.
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