05-26-2007, 08:02
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#1
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,205
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Mahdi Army Basra Leader 23 yoa?
Al Sadr has a 23 year old leading his militia in Basra? It is nice to know he will not get a 24th birthday, but am I the only one who finds this a bit odd that he was in a reported leadership role?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18875126/
Basra militia leader slain
The Mahdi Army received a blow when its Basra leader, Wissam al-Waili, 23, also known as Abu Qadir, was shot and killed along with his brother and two aides during a gunbattle with British and Iraqi troops, police and the British military said.
"...along with his two aides.." Were these his nannies?
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CoLawman is offline
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05-26-2007, 08:20
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CoLawman
Al Sadr has a 23 year old leading his militia in Basra? It is nice to know he will not get a 24th birthday, but am I the only one who finds this a bit odd that he was in a reported leadership role?
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Now what might we deduce from that fact detective? 
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"The Spartans do not ask how many are the enemy, but where they are."
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Team Sergeant is offline
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05-26-2007, 09:30
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#3
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Buckingham, Pa.
Posts: 1,746
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Team Sergeant
Now what might we deduce from that fact detective? |
I can come up with three things. The first is all the veterans are dead and Mookie's has to go very deep into his bench to find his next leader, or even his followers realize that being Mookie's right hand man is a no win proposition so no one wants the job, or the guy is a patsy named as leader only to take the heat off the guys really calling the shots.
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rubberneck is offline
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05-26-2007, 10:21
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#4
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Quiet Professional
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by rubberneck
I can come up with three things. The first is all the veterans are dead and Mookie's has to go very deep into his bench to find his next leader, or even his followers realize that being Mookie's right hand man is a no win proposition so no one wants the job, or the guy is a patsy named as leader only to take the heat off the guys really calling the shots.
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I was thinking along the same lines..... 
TS
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"The Spartans do not ask how many are the enemy, but where they are."
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Team Sergeant is offline
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05-26-2007, 20:49
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#5
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,952
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At a recent conference in Jordan, King Abdullah noted that of an Arab population of 325 million, over 200 million are under the age of 24. The Arab world enjoyed an immense baby boom in the 1980s and 1990s.
Saudi Arabia's population has more than doubled since the mid-1980s. So has that of Jordan, Oman and the United Arab Emirates. Syria's by 80-90%. Bahrain's has increased by about 67%. Egypt's has increased by more than 60%. Both Algeria's and Morocco's have also increased by more than 50%. Same goes for Lebanon.
Despite all the wars and other problems, Iraq's population has increased by about 80% since 1985.
By way of contrast, the U.S. population has increased by about 25% in that period. Europe's population increased by 5% between 1980 and 2005. France and the Netherlands are among the few Western European countries with relatively robust growth (about 12-15%) in that period, and much of that is due to immigration, mainly from Muslim and Arab countries. Germany's and Russia's populations are falling.
The greatest source of recruitment for terrorist groups and militias are among these millions of young Arabs with few prospects. They can move quickly up the ladder in these organizations, not just because their superiors find themselves on the wrong end of a JDAM or a rifle bullet, but because these organizations, especially al-Sadr's "Mahdi Army", are effectively little different from street gangs with ideological pretensions.
Compare another gang with ideological pretensions: Bobby Seale was a relatively old 30 when he co-founded the Black Panther Party with Huey P. Newton, who was 24. H. Rap Brown was 25 when he became "Justice Minister" of the Black Panthers. Stokely Carmichael was 27 when he became honorary "Prime Minister" of the Black Panthers. Geronimo Pratt was the 21-year old "Minister of Defense". Malik Rahim (Donald Guyton) was 22 when he tried to set up the Louisiana chapter of the Black Panther Party. Eldridge Cleaver, 31 when he became "Minister of Information", seems like the old man of the group.
By the way, Muqtada al-Sadr himself is only 33. His main problems with the Shi'ite hierarchy have come from the fact that he is viewed as little more than a thug and punk kid trading on his father's venerated name.
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Airbornelawyer is offline
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05-26-2007, 21:09
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#6
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Quiet Professional
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Location: LA
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Ilich Ramírez Sánchez was only 26 when they hit OPEC. Andreas Bernd Baader was 27 when he co-founded the Rote Armee Fraktion...
It is a young man's game.
It is not uncommon that they graduate from university with their heads full of shit, then are disillusioned by what they found in the job market/real world.
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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05-26-2007, 21:11
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#7
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 462
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Be careful not to project Western norms about age onto the adversary. In addition to the three ways listed earlier, he could have risen to early leadership through any number of other ways:
- family/clan ties
- special skills/training
- battlefield performance
- religious credentials
- access to special resources
- more senior leaders splintering away from Sadr's central control
- ?
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x-factor is offline
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05-26-2007, 21:16
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
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Good point
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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05-27-2007, 06:41
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#9
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Baghdad Iraq & Springfield Mo
Posts: 239
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Old age and experiance more often than not BEATS youth and skill. 
As one QP told me,"Experiance is something you wish you had had 15 minutes ago". I suspect Wissam al Waili wishs he had more experiance right now.
On a serious note I'm reading Mark Bowden's book on the Iranain Hostatge Crisis, in the book it seems like the students had far more politcal power than the actual govt of Iran. It seems insane to me to allow a bunch of college students to drive the ship of state.
Then after being in the ME nothing really surprises me anymore.
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504PIR is offline
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05-27-2007, 08:24
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by 504PIR
Old age and experiance more often than not BEATS youth and skill.
As one QP told me,"Experiance is something you wish you had had 15 minutes ago". I suspect Wissam al Waili wishs he had more experiance right now.
On a serious note I'm reading Mark Bowden's book on the Iranain Hostatge Crisis, in the book it seems like the students had far more politcal power than the actual govt of Iran. It seems insane to me to allow a bunch of college students to drive the ship of state.
Then after being in the ME nothing really surprises me anymore. |
Thank Jimmy Carter for sropping support for the Shah. 
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
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