13 minute ruck mile...

[Goat Bandit]

I thought I would start this thread to see if anyone can offer advice for myself or anyone that might be in the same boat. I have read the most of the posts here and I have started to get frustrated with my ruck times. Mainly, what I'm looking for advice on is the 12'30" to 13' minute mile average that some people can do WITHOUT running. I have been training seriously for about 8 weeks now, rucking 2-4 times a week. (just over 190 miles logged) I seem to be stuck on a plateau of 4.2 mph, which puts me at about 14'15" per mile. (This is with a foot drill, that takes under 5 minutes and happens at about mile 8).
-My training started at 35lbs. My average speed for my first 4 miler was 3 mph.

-It didn't take long to get up 4mph, for 4 miles. When I would get up to 4 mph, for that distance I would increase the distance by 2 miles and the weight by 5 lbs.

-Once I got to 12 miles with 55lbs at 4mph, I did not increase the weight, just the distance by 1 mile. The farthest I have gone is 13 miles.

-I have gone back 12 miles now trying to increase the speed, and I seem to be stuck at 4.2, when I need to be at 4.8 to make the 12'30" time that has been suggested here.

-I do the 12 miler once a week, and the other hikes are 5, 6 and 8 miles and I really try to focus on speed on those.

-Some other notes:
- I ruck on a half mile strip of hard dirt and gravel on one side of my FOB. Very Boring and I've worn a nice track into it now. I use a GPS to keep distance and time.
-Gear: Large ruck with frame, rivets are now popping, and the rocks in the radio pocket have rubbed holes in the nylon where it touches the frame. I wear a pair of smartwool sock liners and Marine issued "dive socks" over them, which just are some really thick old school wool socks. Desert Jungle boots, minus the heel cups, skip laced. I don't wear an LBV, because I don't have one here.

-I carry my M4, that has all of the bells and whistles on a sling. I just recently noticed a picture where some SFAS students didn't have slings, so I'm going to ditch mine.

If anyone can offer some advice on how they got up to the 12'30" mile, how their training plan differed, or any other notes I'd appreciate it.

[x SF med]

1. read Major Martin's book - "Get Selected"
2. FOG advice - prior to prep courses - mind over matter - you don't mind, it don't matter. Quit thinking, and do - load your ruck, and go.
3. ditch the smartwool - only issued socks at SFAS.
4. If it's really inside, you'll find it (this is the key point, you either are or you aren't)

Oh, the best final piece of advice - USE THE SEARCH BUTTON - this has been covered ad nauseum - every friggin sluggo asks the same friggin question about rucking, and it really is getting old - minus 50 for bad SA - drop and push, then put on the ruck and walk.

My search on "rucking" turned up 36 hits... Are you lazy or stupid? SF doesn't take either.


edited to add - My apologies for lack of Military Courtesy, LT. I failed to read your profile prior to my post.

[The Reaper]

Stop looking for immediate gratification and personal assistance and take the time to read ALL of the rucking posts here.

A search will quickly show quite a few of them. I have personally answered this question several times before here.

The Search button is your friend.

Good luck, LT.

TR

[Goat Bandit]

I think this may have come off the wrong way, I only posted the specifics of the training program to avoid answering those annoying questions that I often see later in the thread, "well, what kind of boots do you wear? What kind of socks? How far, long and how fast..." etc. I'm legitimately looking for some mentoring here, and interaction between people who may be or were stuck in the same spot. I know I'm not the only one. Not immediate gratification. Personal assistance, to some degree, but I posted this for all to see knowing full well that new posts about rucking are often met with hostility. There are a lot of other guys out there that might be in the same boat that might be afraid of losing 50 points for SA or being publicly berated by people in a community that they want to be a part of. None of that bothers or discourages me from seeking advice, nor do I have problem with ever sticking my neck out for my fellow warfighter.
I do use the search button, and I use it multiple times before I post anything. I may be a Lt, but I'm not a total retard. Maybe I missed something. Our standard in the MC is a blazing 3 mph. Expect to get canned if you exceed that speed with your men behind you. Finding someone who knows how to move out at close to 5mph without running where I'm at will get you nowhere. I read "Get Selected", and I'm familiar with the Socratic method of questioning/mentoring. The book is what led me to start this thread. “Ask for directions and you’ll get to your destination much quicker” (page 11-1). I understand that this is your house, with your rules. I consider myself to be a professional as well, and understand that I am guest in your home and I don’t live here. I’m not looking for a pat on the back, just advice from one or many professionals to another. If the thread can't help anyone, then please delete it.
--x SF med, no worries. Does this mean I get my 50 SA points back?

[lksteve]

Originally Posted by Goat Bandit

I think this may have come off the wrong way, I only posted the specifics of the training program to avoid answering those annoying questions that I often see later in the thread, "well, what kind of boots do you wear? What kind of socks? How far, long and how fast..." etc. I'm legitimately looking for some mentoring here

you want mentoring...but you don't want to be asked annoying questions...LT, when i was a Captain training lugnuts in IOBC, mentored quite a few folks...it entails asking a lot of annoying questions...

hit the search button, read the threads and then maybe someone will take the time to answer YOUR annoying questions....

quoth Tom Rush "Kids these days"...

[x SF med]

Originally Posted by Goat Bandit

... I may be a Lt, but I'm not a total retard. ...--x SF med, no worries. Does this mean I get my 50 SA points back?

NO LT, it just means I get -20 for not using SA. I really didn't want to do extra PT tonight, I'm old and fragile - not to mention, a naked troll, and it's friggin cold out.

[Warrior-Mentor]

LT - No worries.

Couple thoughts for your consideration:

Pace: I used a 1/4 mile track to help accurately track my pace and to get used to it.

12.5 minutes/mile = 4.8 miles/hour

Call it 4.75 mph (for easy math) = 19 laps/hour (on a 1/4 mile track)

Pace in:
Min/Mile | Miles/Hour | Laps/hour | Min/Lap | Laps/Min
12.0 | 5.0 | 20.0 | 3.00 | 0.33
12.5 | 4.8 | 19.2 | 3.13 | 0.32
13.0 | 4.6 | 18.5 | 3.25 | 0.31
13.5 | 4.4 | 17.8 | 3.38 | 0.30
14.0 | 4.3 | 17.1 | 3.50 | 0.29
14.5 | 4.1 | 16.6 | 3.63 | 0.28
15.0 | 4.0 | 16.0 | 3.75 | 0.27

In other words, to do cover 1 mile in 12.5 minutes, you've got to get used to walking 1/4 mile lap every 3 minutes. Broken down further, you could say you've got to cover a 1/3 of the track every 60 seconds.

You've got the benefit of a GPS to track your speed, so you might not want/need to use a track. I recommend it at least once [even wth a GPS] so you can get the "visual" feel of the pace as well.

The next logical question [which you asked] is, "How do I speed up to get to that pace, WITHOUT running?"

Stride: Consciously work to lengthen your stride. At 5'10", I worked to get my comfortable, fast ruck stride to match that of guys who were 6 inches taller than I was. It feels a little ackward at first, but you can get used to it.

Arms: This pays the biggest, and fastest dividends in terms of immediate return on effort. Concentrate on swinging your arms very quickly and at a full swing. For whatever reason, your legs respond to the speed of your arms. It's strange, but it works. Without a weapon, swing your arms straight forward and back. With a weapon, I swung the weapon rapidy from side to side [or carried it in one hand, swinging it forward and back].

Good luck.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Warrior Mentor

At 5'10", I worked to get my comfortable, fast ruck stride to match that of guys who were 6 inches taller than I was.

Unless those of us over 6' were striding out, too. Must've sucked for you "little guys".

[x SF med]

LT-
W-M just confirmed what I told you in the pm - stride and arm swing - the keys to rucking faster.... And W-M wrote the book - which wasn't around when I went through the course.

[LongWire]

My real nice RIP Instructors set the pace for me back when I started doing this stuff, way back when.........I kept up then, and realized that my Basic Course Had been Easy, and I was finding the challenge I had been looking for. Since then I know what the standard is.........


Ditch all the feel good stuff......Ruck up and walk........then walk faster...........then even faster, lean forward and push yourself into a pace that feels like you are moving way too fast.......this is your pace!!!!!!!!


You will have to dig deep.....the first few times will be real uncomfortable and will literally wear some seriously nice blisters into places they've never been before.......you will get used to this, and the body will adapt and either not give you blisters after a while or give them to you anyways........the by-product either way is character!!!!!!!


Dig deep, LT.

[x SF med]

Originally Posted by Razor

Unless those of us over 6' were striding out, too. Must've sucked for you "little guys".

That it did Razor, that it did - at 5'8", it sucked to keep up with you tall guys, but, you do what you need to do.

[Pete]

Goat;

You reach a point where no mater how long a stride you take and how fast you pump your arms you just can't get any faster. Your boots just take too long to move from the back to the front.

To go any faster you will need to shorten your step and move your feet and legs "faster". At 6'3" I had a good long, steady pace that would eat the miles but some of the shorter guys had a blazing short step, like a range walk that would burn down the road. To keep up with them I felt like I was walking on my heels and my thighs would be buring within a 1/4 mile.

As others have said find a measured 1/4 somewhere, a local track maybe. Get out and do a few miles and come up on the track. Go around at your normal pace to check time, then do another with a shorter step but pick up the speed, really pumping the arms side to side as if you were holding your rifle.

You may find you make better time overall by using a combination of steps over the measured distance. Up hill, down hill, flats, sand and road.

Pete

[Warrior-Mentor]

Originally Posted by LongWire

My real nice RIP Instructors set the pace for me ...

Ditch all the feel good stuff......Ruck up and walk........then walk faster...........then even faster, lean forward and push yourself into a pace that feels like you are moving way too fast.......this is your pace!!!!!!!!

You will have to dig deep... the first few times will be real uncomfortable and will literally wear some seriously nice blisters into places they've never been before.......you will get used to this, and the body will adapt and either not give you blisters after a while or give them to you anyways........the by-product either way is character!!!!!!!

Dig deep, LT.

LW - something about those Rangers...they can ruck fast...luckily, as a 2LT, our pre-Ranger instructor (at FAOBC) was a FIST in one of the Ranger Battalions. He was shorter than me, but showed us the way to ruck...and then wore us out.

LT - When your SHINS feel like they're going to explode, you're getting there. Make sure to do a good stretch BEFORE and AFTER to help prevent or minimize the pain of shin slints.

[funnyman]

I found it was easier to take more short strides rather than fewer longer ones. Having a stride that's too long for your body will exert too much force on the rear of your heel since all the impact of each step will occur there. That will cause blistering and possible stress fractures. Too many blisters/swelling and you'll end up cutting the front and back of your boots off and end up walking around in a nice new pair of leather Tevas.

Like others have said, I definately found swinging my arms back and forth worked well. Let your arms extend all the way so your muscles don't work extra to hold up your weapon (obviously for non-combat environments only).

I always tried to trot a little extra on the down hills - gravity is your friend in this case.

Maybe rucking the same path over and over subconsciously subdues you a bit. Try varying your terrain.

Don't zone out, but stay in a slightly detatched mental state. It'll relax you and you'll fall into a 'groove'.

Picture yourself after you graduate the Q and you find yourself in Iraq, separated from your team, with 100 locals chasing you so they can cut your head off and put the video of it on YouTube.

-Good luck LT.

[AusDigger]

Lots and lots of hills. If you can keep a good pace going up and down hills, you will keep an even better pace when you get to flatter ground. You also want to throw in a few long distance marches each week so that your legs get used to it (6 hours or more). That way when you do a 20km march it will seem like nothing. When you reach a point where you think you have it down pat, start adding more weight to your pack.

Also, when you practice the your timed marches, find someone who can keep pace with you and get them to walk with no weight in their pack so you have to battle to keep up with them.