SOG Abn/HALO Ops.

QRQ 30 · 04-13-2004, 04:58

A few weeks ago someone had asked about SOG Abn insertions. My reply was that they may have been attempted but were not IMHO practical because of the necessity of recon teams to stay together. Below is a declassified document from that period. Note that one HALO and four static line operations were conducted. Even though the staff in the "Puzzle Palace" determined these to be viable means of insertion, all five operations were aborted since the personnel became separated upon insertion.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/tailwind/twc.htm

BMT (RIP) · 04-13-2004, 05:30

CCS had about 5 or 6 SL inserts the year I was there. Drop off Ban Don SCU was hurt on jump and extracted the next morning. Team cotinued the mission.

BMT

CommoGeek · 04-13-2004, 06:25

Plaster's first book on SOG had a chapter devoted to HALO jumps by RT's. I can dig it up tonight and post a synopsis if y'all want.

Solid · 04-13-2004, 16:25

If I remember correctly, it says that only a handful were performed; that they overcame several difficulties; but were rarely successful because of the limitations of MFF over the Indochinese terrain. As a direct result of these MFF missions, one SOG soldier lost his life.

Please treat this as a filler until a proper synopsis is posted, it is all off the top of my head.

Solid

QRQ 30 · 04-13-2004, 17:11

The report I cited gives a synopsis of abn ops conducted by SOG during 1970. This is contained on the last page. Get it from the horsy's mouth.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/tailwind/twc.htm

I served with one man who made a HALO drop with SOG -- Sammy Hernandez. About all you could pry out of him was: "Yep. We did!".

My take is that the operations were conducted but the actual recon missions failed. I jump qualified my team in Special Projects -- TM Cutlass. We were prepared to jump and if you read into some pictures on my web site you will see some selected drop zones. The following is my doctrine and not that of the Military. Abn insertion for recon activity can only be effective at night, (I'm refering to the jungle terrain of SEA) if you are going in daylight you may as well make a nap of the earth insertion. Assembly is difficult in daylight. On one insertion my second ship set down on the wrong LZ about 500 M away from us. The reassembly of my two elements was, to say the least, harrowing. Imagine assembling at night. You will notice that on the one HALO insertion cited the team was separated and picked up on four separate LZs.

From personal experience, I have to ask if the operations were the best way to go or if certain people were in the business of "Ticket punching". I have heard of "Combat Jumps" made just for the purpose of getting a star on one's wings.[SIZE=1][SIZE=1]

**Razor** · 04-13-2004, 21:55

cough-oneseventythirdiniraq-cough!

**The Reaper** · 04-13-2004, 22:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Razor
cough-oneseventythirdiniraq-cough!

Didn't they secure the airfield that the SF and Kurds had been on for a while?

TR

Solid · 04-13-2004, 23:02

What's the definition of a Combat Jump?

Thank you,

Solid

QRQ 30 · 04-14-2004, 07:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Solid
What's the definition of a Combat Jump?

Thank you,

Solid

In all seriousness I was trying to find an answer to your question but couldn't find one immediately through GOOGLE. I am sure there is someone here who knows the "DA Approved" definition. I would say that the first pre-requisite is that it be a combat operation. I believe that DA places a size parameter in there which eliminates SOF operations from being "Official" Combat Jumps.

I wasn't thinking of the 173d in the Middle East but they also conducted a Combat Jump in "War Zone C"

I found an interesting site. If you have any "Airborne Blood" in your veins it will perk you right up:

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/7963/paratrooper.htm

It is a history of most airborne combat operations from the first by the Italians in WWI to the latest in the Middle East. You will have to scroll about half way down to get to the present. Almost all airborne troops are documented with the obvious absence of Russian and Soviet operaations. With all of the links, this is a huge site and equivalent to reading a book.

The piece on the 5th SFGA/Mike Force operation in RVN has a link to photos taken by Scott Whiting who was my room mate in Germany.

Makes me want to holler "AIRBORNE"!!!

Solid · 04-14-2004, 09:38

LOL I think we over-loaded the site

**Razor** · 04-14-2004, 10:13

Quote:

Originally posted by The Reaper
Didn't they secure the airfield that the SF and Kurds had been on for a while?

TR

So I've been told, by guys that were sitting in lawn chairs and watching the jump not far from the DZ.

Solid · 04-14-2004, 10:18

Maybe they did it as a show for the guys in the lawn chairs? Sort of like fireworks.

Solid

QRQ 30 · 04-14-2004, 10:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Razor
So I've been told, by guys that were sitting in lawn chairs and watching the jump not far from the DZ.

That's like the B-Team sitting on the deck overlooking Qui Nhon Bay, sipping cool ones and watching the Marines conduct an "amphibious assult" on Viet Nam.

Sinister · 04-14-2004, 19:29

If I remember correctly, lots of the old-timers were in on those jumps. John "Spider" Trantanella was the NCOIC of the school in Okinawa, and I think Frank Norbury Sr. was the static jumpmaster on a couple of the insertions. SSG Madison Stroheim (sp) was the NCO that was captured killed and body never recovered.

**The Reaper** · 04-14-2004, 20:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Sinister
If I remember correctly, lots of the old-timers were in on those jumps. John "Spider" Trantanella was the NCOIC of the school in Okinawa, and I think Frank Norbury Sr. was the static jumpmaster on a couple of the insertions. SSG Madison Stroheim (sp) was the NCO that was captured killed and body never recovered.

Roger.

Sergeant Major Billy Waugh, Staff Sergeant James "JD" Bath and Sergeant Jesse Campbell were on the jump with Sergeant Madison Strohlein.

TR