Moral decline?

[sg1987]

U.S. Military Letting in More Recruits With Criminal Records
Wednesday, February 14, 2007

WASHINGTON —
The Army and Marine Corps are letting in more recruits with criminal records, including some with felony convictions, reflecting the increased pressure of five years of war and its mounting casualties

Story here
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_frien...251878,00.html

[Kyobanim]

IMO, it's entirely possible for someone with a felony conviction to be rehabilitated. Everyone isn't a child molester/rapist/etc. That's what the waver system is for.

If they can prove to the enlistment board that they're fit for duty then who cares?

If congress is worried about 'low morals' they never should have let me in.

[incommin]

Same thing happened during the Vietnam era......standards on education/mental requirements and criminal activity were lowered. The Army paid the price for it years down the road.....

Jim

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Kyobanim

IMO,
If congress is worried about 'low morals' they never should have let me in.

Congress needs to get its own house in order before they worry about the caliber of the patriots that they are willing to send in harms way to further their own self-serving agendas.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally Posted by incommin

Same thing happened during the Vietnam era......standards on education/mental requirements and criminal activity were lowered. The Army paid the price for it years down the road.....Jim

True, but that was also the result of the draft where we hauled in a bunch of folks kicking and screaming. While I am sure we will get some "undesireables" the kids that join today seem, for the most part, to be joining to actually serve their country.

[Pete]

The majority of the military is under 6 years service. A private is a private and does a private's job. It is during that time that an individual is judged and makes a judgement about military life. They will chaptered, re-up bar, get out or re-up.

I think the military does a good job, for the most part, in weeding out the chaff.

On Macnamara's 100,000. It was real easy to know them when you ran into them. The problem with them was they were promoted wayyyy above their paygrade by the late 70's. It was a joke at the time "He's one of Mac's 100,000."

[incommin]

I don't think congress sets enlistment standards.....However, I think congress should raise theirs.......the standards to be an American serviceman or woman is more stringent than getting into congress....

Jim

[82ndtrooper]

"More than half the Marine recruits required a waiver in 2006" Guess that gives new meaning to a "Few good men" In all fairness, minor traffic offenses, and having written a bad check are hardly what I'd call a "CRIME" I'd be willing to bet that almost every house hold has had a returned check at one time or another. As for minor traffic offenses, why even mention them? unless it's a charge of aggravated driving under the influence. Aggravated being that special circumstances occured, such as an accident, injurious to others, or a second or subsequent charge for driving under the influence. Is this normally a deal breaker for SOF service ?

"Moral decline" ? Thats funny coming from a democrat in this current day and age.

[Eagle5US]

Sorry folks-

All against this one. This recruit population has a stated and demonstrated problem with authority. Why can't that be recognized??? The standards are too low as it is, not mentioning the current state of accellerated, and automatic, promotion. Promo is utilized as a retention tool, not as a grooming of future leadership for the betterment of the service. Where before we could usually count on these bozos being bounced...no longer. They get multiple tries at Basic, even ALLOWABLE AWOL with re-insertion and no prosecution. Numbers drive the train. Numbers ONLY. Most AIT programs are not only "will not fail"s, but are "CANNOT FAIL"s, with the reasoning that "your NCO's will teach you that when you get there and we can't show a negative number on the training vs graduation slide in TRADOC. Not in a time of war. Trouble begets trouble...and it moves it's sorry performing ass right on up the NCO support channel.

I am currently living this nightmare and it sickens me to see what "my Army" has "evolved into" over the past 23 years. Though I am sure that there were Vietnam Veteran CSM's who said the same thing when I was a PV1 and they were at their 20+ time frame-sadly, I now feel their pain.

Already we are inundated with a culture of kids who joined up to get their college bankroll and who know that they are getting out as soon as they get back from deployment. As a result, they stay on sick call, in trouble, on the FOB (because they did not care to participate in ANYTHING outside the gate) and could care less if they are on the 1SG's hit list, because it means nothing. He is generally as big a turd as they are and HE made it.
These recruits aren't going into the MOS's to fight and die for their country either-they are primarily (from my experience) flooding the support functions and rolls where they can skim off the system for various freebies, stay locked as far away from harm as is possible in this arena, and stay clean, dry, fed, around the proverbial (and ever present) "tail", and yet STILL find crap to complain about because they aren't being treated right by "the man". Big Army OWES ME for signing up. Sure he does-here is your E-4 in 18 months and promotion to E-5 in 30. Please stay in the Army-we are short

I would rather have 10 quality dudes than 100 low end duds.

Lower the standards....yet one more idiotic idea from people who obviously won't have to deal with these clowns.
Five more years.....just 5 more years. Lord please grant me the strength.

Eagle

[incommin]

Originally Posted by Eagle5US

Sorry folks-

All against this one. This recruit population has a stated and demonstrated problem with authority. Why can't that be recognized??? The standards are too low as it is, not mentioning the current state of accellerated, and automatic, promotion. Promo is utilized as a retention tool, not as a grooming of future leadership for the betterment of the service. Where before we could usually count on these bozos being bounced...no longer. They get multiple tries at Basic, even ALLOWABLE AWOL with re-insertion and no prosecution. Numbers drive the train. Numbers ONLY. Most AIT programs are not only "will not fail"s, but are "CANNOT FAIL"s, with the reasoning that "your NCO's will teach you that when you get there and we can't show a negative number on the training vs graduation slide in TRADOC. Not in a time of war. Trouble begets trouble...and it moves it's sorry performing ass right on up the NCO support channel.

I am currently living this nightmare and it sickens me to see what "my Army" has "evolved into" over the past 23 years. Though I am sure that there were Vietnam Veteran CSM's who said the same thing when I was a PV1 and they were at their 20+ time frame-sadly, I now feel their pain.

Already we are inundated with a culture of kids who joined up to get their college bankroll and who know that they are getting out as soon as they get back from deployment. As a result, they stay on sick call, in trouble, on the FOB (because they did not care to participate in ANYTHING outside the gate) and could care less if they are on the 1SG's hit list, because it means nothing. He is generally as big a turd as they are and HE made it.
These recruits aren't going into the MOS's to fight and die for their country either-they are primarily (from my experience) flooding the support functions and rolls where they can skim off the system for various freebies, stay locked as far away from harm as is possible in this arena, and stay clean, dry, fed, around the proverbial (and ever present) "tail", and yet STILL find crap to complain about because they aren't being treated right by "the man". Big Army OWES ME for signing up. Sure he does-here is your E-4 in 18 months and promotion to E-5 in 30. Please stay in the Army-we are short

I would rather have 10 quality dudes than 100 low end duds.

Lower the standards....yet one more idiotic idea from people who obviously won't have to deal with these clowns.
Five more years.....just 5 more years. Lord please grant me the strength.

Eagle

Eagle, I have felt your pain........ 20 years ago!

Jim

[504PIR]

I have to agree with Eagle5US on this one...with one exception. But IMHO the biggest issue that some (not all) of these troops can be turned around through "Strong NCO" leadership ie:'a good kick in the ass' never hurt anybody.

There are many weak NCOs in many of the units that the problem children tend to go to. Without discipline even good units go to hell, now imagain a CS or CSS with weak NCO CoC and a whole bunch of these kids......you have a unit of shitbags!

The discipline has to start at BCT with hard charging DS who are allowed to do their job with the support of their Cmdrs. All that BS "touchyfeely TRADOC" crap need to go out the window. All soldiers need discipline and role models. The NCOs who train and lead the kids must have a low BS tolerance and maybe a copy of "Wall to wall Consuling for Beginers".


I wonder if we could get "The Purd" to come back on active duty????

Back to lurking.

[Sionnach]

I have mixed feelings about this, and I can see both sides.

I was a young punk who did stupid things. I barely managed to get into the Army. Moral waiver? Yep, I needed that. The Army, along with good, old-fashioned introspection, helped me become who I am today. If you lower the standards, you're sure to get some duds. On the other hand, you can get some guys who shine. Is a worthless slug with a clean record worth more than a guy who stepped on his crank and later determines to square himself away?

I'm more concerned about relaxed training standards than I am about relaxed admittance standards. BCT needs to be toughened up to allow civillians to be broken down and remade into soldiers. Letting troublemakers enlist probably makes this job more difficult, but I'd be more inclined to fully endorse it if 1SGs and COs had the authority to "square away or chapter" asshats without a lot of political consequences.

$0.02

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Pete

On Macnamara's 100,000. It was real easy to know them when you ran into them. The problem with them was they were promoted wayyyy above their paygrade by the late 70's. It was a joke at the time "He's one of Mac's 100,000."

We had a Battalion CSM in 2/7 who was one of that august group.

He had the second lowest GT score in the Battalion (right after one of the 76Ys in the Supply Room).

So many troops came by the Battalion S-1 Shop to take out his records and see for themselves that the CSM pulled his own records and locked them up in his desk.

Then you had to be on SDNCO and have graduated Locks and Seals to view them.

Or so I heard.

TR

[CPTAUSRET]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

We had a Battalion CSM in 2/7 who was one of that august group.

He had the second lowest GT score in the Battalion (right after one of the 76Ys in the Supply Room).

So many troops came by the Battalion S-1 Shop to take out his records and see for themselves that the CSM pulled his own records and locked them up in his desk.

Then you had to be on SDNCO and have graduated Locks and Seals to view them.

Or so I heard.

TR

Sad state of affairs!

[sg1987]

Originally Posted by 504PIR

I wonder if we could get "The Purd" to come back on active duty????

That would DAMN sure do it!!!!!