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Dateline: To Catch A Predator
Old 02-06-2007, 19:35   #1
Broadsword2004
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Dateline: To Catch A Predator

Anybody seen these? They do them once in awhile, but jeez, they've caught a Navy sailor, an Infantry Marine, a Marine Corps sniper, a cancer doctor, computer engineers, software developers, a truck driver, etc...all sorts of guys. They've even caught the same guy a couple times; the one guy was caught, then they caught him again.

A couple guys were even aware of the show and asked the "girl" (decoy) to meet at a park (so they wouldn't get caught), where they got caught anyway b/c the police surrounded the park. Another guy was very suspicious and they still managed to get him. They get so many guys that they'll be arresting one when another arrives to the undercover home.

Some of these guys have violent pasts as well, others are upstanding individuals of society.

Next week, they said they are setting up in Texas, where they have caught men ranging from their 20s to age 60, such as successful businessmen, a schoolteacher, an even an assistant district attorney in a neighboring district!

A lot of perverted people out there it seems.

Last edited by Broadsword2004; 02-06-2007 at 19:44.
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Old 02-06-2007, 19:44   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadsword2004
Anybody seen these? They do them once in awhile, but jeez, they've caught a Navy sailor, an Infantry Marine, a Marine Corps sniper, a cancer doctor, computer engineers, software developers, a truck driver, etc...all sorts of guys. They've even caught the same guy a couple times; the one guy was caught, then they caught him again.

A couple guys were even aware of the show and asked the "girl" (decoy) to meet at a park (so they wouldn't get caught), where they got caught anyway b/c the police surrounded the park. Another guy was very suspicious and they still managed to get him.

Some of these guys have violent pasts as well, others are upstanding individuals of society.

They get so many guys that they'll be arresting one when another arrives to the undercover home. A lot of perverted people out there it seems.


Thanks for this info.

Now go and find some good military news to equal your bad news.

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Cases in jeapordy
Old 08-11-2007, 11:52   #3
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Cases in jeapordy

This is on the front page of the Santa rosa, CA Press Democrat


http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/articl...31/1033/NEWS01

Attorneys raise questions about arrests made in Petaluma as part of Dateline's, 'To Catch a Predator.'

By LORI A. CARTER
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT

Defense attorneys are raising legal and ethical questions about the collaboration among police, TV producers and a self-proclaimed vigilante group that provided critical evidence in the arrests of 29 men in a "sex-predator sting" in Petaluma last year.
Fourteen of the 29 men arrested over three days last August during a filming of "Dateline NBC's" popular "To Catch a Predator" series are fighting felony charges of attempted lewd and lascivious conduct with a child.
Their cases hinge on whether judges and juries believe police followed proper legal procedures in collecting evidence while ensuring defendants' rights aren't violated by an overzealous desire to catch men suspected of sexually preying on children.
"I'm not against stopping child molesters or predators," said Santa Rosa attorney Steven Turer, who represents two men nabbed in the sting. "But when you kind of seduce people whose behavior is otherwise law-abiding, it's not fair and it's not right."
The biggest fish caught in the net, a successful, married cancer doctor from the East Bay, is represented by a high-powered Los Angeles attorney who has thus far provided the most vigorous defense to the charges.
Blair Berk, the attorney for Dr. Maurice Wolin of Piedmont, argued in court this week that Petaluma police and "vigilante informants" from the advocacy group Perverted Justice illegally entrapped her client.
Wolin also challenged the authenticity of the chat logs Perverted Justice provided to police allegedly showing his intent to commit the illegal acts and the motivation of police and Perverted Justice decoys used in the sting.
On Monday, two local attorneys, Bob Bratberg and Wallace Coppock, representing another man arrested in the sting, will ask Judge René Chouteau to order prosecutors to turn over records of any negotiations between Petaluma police, NBC and Perverted Justice.
"It goes to bias," Coppock said. "We also may argue at some point about discriminatory law enforcement."
11 convictions so far
In court, prosecutors have dismissed the defense claims as efforts to divert attention from the issue of predatory behavior.
District Attorney Stephan Passalacqua said he couldn't discuss details of the cases, but pointed to the 11 convictions so far and said he was satisfied with how police handled the investigation.
"On all these cases, we've worked closely with law enforcement and they have acted in a professional manner, as they do on a daily basis, to make this a safe community," Passalacqua said.
But Judge Raima Ballinger, who is presiding over Wolin's preliminary hearing, has yet to decide if she will accept logs of Internet chats created by Perverted Justice as evidence.
Issues of bias have been raised by other defense attorneys, who argue that Perverted Justice representatives have financial or other motives that could taint the evidence
Producer fired
Bias also has been raised by a former "To Catch a Predator" producer, Marsha Bartel, who in May sued NBC, claiming she was fired for questioning the ethics and motives of those involved in the stings.
Her suit says Perverted Justice doesn't provide complete transcripts from its chats and that network officials cannot independently verify the accuracy of the transcripts. She said police and NBC have cooperated so much that both sides' ethics are subject to question.
In Sonoma County, the reliability of the chat logs is shaping up to be one of the most contentious issues.
One of the most crucial issues for prosecutors will be whether judges admit into evidence the logs purportedly detailing Internet chats between decoys posing as minors and the defendants. Without that evidence, proving the men believed the person was underage and their intent was sex could be difficult, attorneys say.
In Collin County, Texas, prosecutors declined to go forward in 23 "Dateline"-Perverted Justice cases because they couldn't verify the evidence.
"We applied the applicable legal standards and ultimately found that the cases were legally deficient," one of the prosecutors said.
Turer said that in addition to questioning the chat logs' authenticity, he has concerns whether the decoys acted legally.
"They walked a very fine line between entrapment and nonentrapment," he said. "My client said no, but then she said, 'C'mon, I'm alone, why don't you come over.' "
He said if a decoy makes the first contact with a potential predator, it could spell entrapment -- defined as inducing an otherwise law-abiding citizen to break the law.
Question of supervision
Steve Spiegelman, who represents two Petaluma sting defendants, questioned whether the amateur decoys' unmonitored activities will pass legal muster.
Generally, citizens acting at the direction of law enforcement must adhere to legal rules similar to those of police. According to its Web site, Perverted Justice says its decoys can't be guilty of entrapment because they don't
work under police supervision.
"Who's telling who what to do? Who's monitoring what?" Spiegelman said. "When it's all said and done, there are so many mistakes and parts of it that are not reliable, the whole scenario is tainted. When some of these go to trial, that will come out."
Petaluma Police Lt. Matt Stapleton testified in Wolin's preliminary hearing this week that Perverted Justice decoys conducted multiday chats with potential suspects without police oversight. After a suspect was taken into custody, he said, a Perverted Justice representative would provide detectives with a printout of the chat.
In some cases, as in Wolin's, the transcript that police initially received was incomplete. Perverted Justice later provided fuller versions of the chats, Stapleton testified.
At issue in court has been whether the chats can be legally authenticated, given that no police representative witnessed their recording. Police rely on the word of Perverted Justice that they are complete and unaltered.
Editing chats denied
Perverted Justice has told police it cannot edit the chats, Stapleton said.
"They can e-mail portions of it, but they can't edit what they have in their computers?" Spiegelman said. "That's suspicious itself. I have no confidence at all that it hasn't been edited, that it hasn't changed form or that it's complete."
The alliance between the news magazine show and police, too, raises questions.
To maintain their position as neutral observers, journalists usually avoid alliances with newsmakers, including sharing information or otherwise assisting in police investigations.
But in these stings, NBC paid to rent the Petaluma sting house and provided all the recording equipment, Stapleton testified. No money changed hands, but Petaluma police do not have the resources to conduct such a large-scale, high-tech sting by themselves, he acknowledged.
NBC also provided its live video feeds and unused video outtakes to police for use in their investigations. For their part, police allowed "Dateline" host Chris Hansen first crack at interviewing their suspects, and then were provided unfettered access to the interviews for prosecution.
"It seems like police could do this on their own and keep control over it," Spiegelman said. "But they completely lost control by partnering with entertainment TV and a vigilante group. Police are in the middle saying they're in control, but who's in control of who?"
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NO SHIT!
Old 08-11-2007, 15:15   #4
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Thumbs up NO SHIT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Sergeant
Thanks for this info.

Now go and find some good military news to equal your bad news.

Team Sergeant
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Old 08-11-2007, 15:25   #5
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I like the one where the cop was wearing one of those giant commercial Gillie Suites He would jump out of the bushes when they nabbed the Guy. Only reason for using the Gillie Monster I could come up with. They were on TV.
Google Convicted Sex Offender. Couple of sights containing Data Bases will come up. Type in your Zip Code. A map like Google earth will pop up. Find your house. Click on any of the icons near your house. A picture and criminal record of the offender will pop up.
I have about five living with in five miles of my house. Thats a lot when you realize I live close to Camp Mackall. They finally figured out there is no way to stop these people from doing it again. Just defense.
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Old 08-11-2007, 15:40   #6
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I am curious how others feel about luring these guys into a trap like this. The lawyers are of course arguing that "seduces" otherwise law abiding citizens and it is "not fair."

I am not following that logic. Law abiding citizens do not prey on young people.
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Luring my ass!!!!!
Old 08-11-2007, 15:56   #7
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Luring my ass!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMI
I am curious how others feel about luring these guys into a trap like this. The lawyers are of course arguing that "seduces" otherwise law abiding citizens and it is "not fair."

I am not following that logic. Law abiding citizens do not prey on young people.
You're talking about predators using a different "avenue-of" approach!

Stay safe.
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Old 08-11-2007, 16:02   #8
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I searched Megans Law website

http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov/Search.aspx?lang=ENGLISH


One of my sales people showed up as well as a few of our contract drivers.

I have about 5 also living near me-but these guys are a few hundred meters away in the near by trailer park. If what they are doing on the Tv show is entrapment I have no problem with it.
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Old 08-11-2007, 16:02   #9
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You're talking about predators using a different "avenue-of" approach!

Stay safe.
I agree. I guess I am asking if we should maybe not be allowed to go a step or 2 further to catch these guys.
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Under fifteen?
Old 08-11-2007, 17:35   #10
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Under fifteen?

JMHO,

A grown "man" a-hem, PEDOPHILE, and a girl under fifteen...hmm, let's see?

Usually the Dateline show provides the neccessary IM or emails to back up the encounter, so yep, chemical castration on site would be a good option, and save the taxpayers lots of $$$ for prison etc...again, JMHO.


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Old 08-11-2007, 21:10   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgoerz
I like the one where the cop was wearing one of those giant commercial Gillie Suites He would jump out of the bushes when they nabbed the Guy. Only reason for using the Gillie Monster I could come up with. They were on TV.
Google Convicted Sex Offender. Couple of sights containing Data Bases will come up. Type in your Zip Code. A map like Google earth will pop up. Find your house. Click on any of the icons near your house. A picture and criminal record of the offender will pop up.
I have about five living with in five miles of my house. Thats a lot when you realize I live close to Camp Mackall. They finally figured out there is no way to stop these people from doing it again. Just defense.
The ghillie, in my humble opinion, is unnecessary and stupid. On a related note, I was recently on a float trip when I saw a member of the State Water Patrol jump up, in full ghillie, from his hiding position within the woodline just off the bank. He waded out into the river, grabbed the front of another canoe, and guided them to the bank....... then he issued them tickets for drinking out of glass containers, not having a safety vest on the minors, etc......

Then he walked back up and disappeared into the woodline.....

I thought that I had seen it all in my LE career..... rolling gun battles, drive by's in progress, you name it........ but that made me go "Holy Sh#t, did you see that?"

Back on point....... Unfortunately, this is a subject on which I have waaaaay to much training, but....

You have to be careful with those "sex offender" lists..... don't let them get you too worked up. Depending on the state, damned near anything can get you on one...... For example, have you ever taken a drunken whiz on the side of a building? In my state, that can be written up as "sexual misconduct" whereas the suspect "knowingly exposed his genitals in public." That can get you on the list. So can running around the parking lot of a NFL stadium (in a drunken stupor) with a 16" strap on hanging out of your pants, chasing sorority chicks and trying to "smack" them with it....... that kid was a law student, btw, and I didn't write him for it..... He was stupid, but not a threat to society, so I gave him a "disorderly conduct" instead. No need to ruin his life.

There are multiple other offenses, such as "indecent conduct with a minor," which could be anything from letting your 16 year old buddy (if you are 18) borrow your porn stash, to smacking a girl on the ass as a HS prank when you are a senior (and 18). Both can get you labeled as a "sex offender."

So just being on that list doesn't necessarily make you a baby raper, threat to society, or John Wayne Gacy.

Also, it has been shown time and time again that "sex offenders" in general, have much lower recidivism rates than robbers, drug dealers, burglars, and most other criminals. Serial pedophiles (people who want to have sex with children) are the ones for whom there is no cure, but they are a small segment of those lists.

So before I sold the home or gathered a posse, I would see what the people in my AO had been convicted of....... maybe they are a child rapist, maybe they were at a party and had sex with a 14 year old freshman (who swore she was a 17 year old junior) when they were a senior in HS........ I've seen both end up on lists.

Now where's my ghillie?

Last edited by mdb23; 08-11-2007 at 21:16.
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Old 08-12-2007, 10:28   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdb23
You have to be careful with those "sex offender" lists..... don't let them get you too worked up. Depending on the state, damned near anything can get you on one...... For example, have you ever taken a drunken whiz on the side of a building? In my state, that can be written up as "sexual misconduct" whereas the suspect "knowingly exposed his genitals in public." That can get you on the list. So can running around the parking lot of a NFL stadium (in a drunken stupor) with a 16" strap on hanging out of your pants, chasing sorority chicks and trying to "smack" them with it....... that kid was a law student, btw, and I didn't write him for it..... He was stupid, but not a threat to society, so I gave him a "disorderly conduct" instead. No need to ruin his life.
I've not found one that states "drunken whiz on a wall".....

Most states only list the real bad ones, not the ones you're writing about, class 2 (Intermediate) & 3 (High) seem to make the internet watch groups.

(2) Intermediate
ATTEMPTED SEXUAL CONDUCT WITH A MINOR

(2) Intermediate
Offense(s): SEXUAL ABUSE / MOLESTATION OF A CHILD

(3) High
Offense(s): MOLESTATION OF A CHILD

(2) Intermediate
Offense(s): SEXUAL ASSAULT

I don't care much about these DoJ lists, there are 10's of thousands of them running around unaccounted for.... hell after Katrina we lost track of some 50,000 convicted sex offenders....

Trust no one.

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LOL!
Old 08-12-2007, 10:50   #13
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LOL!

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I agree. I guess I am asking if we should maybe not be allowed to go a step or 2 further to catch these guys.
When I was younger...pedophiles were "fair" targets! My sisters and I, could ride bikes all day long however: It was known...fucking with someone kid in an unnatural way was forbidden.

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Old 08-12-2007, 10:58   #14
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I don't care how they were caught.

I don't care who their lawyers are.

I don't want to hear their excuses about why they invited a minor to a sexual encounter, or why they traveled to consummate it.

This entrapment claim is like stating that putting expensive merchandise in a store window unfairly encourages people to steal it.

These "men" are sick predators of the worst kind.

They need to be identified, tried, punished, and tracked to ensure that it never happens again.

Frankly, I am not exactly sure why a wife would support a husband who would do something like this.

You look at that picture of Jessica Lunsford, and read about what happened to her, and think about what you would feel like if that were your child.

The majority of the offenders in our area appear to be the typical young guy, with a younger (not juvenile) underage girlfriend.

TR
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Old 08-12-2007, 11:51   #15
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I've not found one that states "drunken whiz on a wall".....
Because that isn't what they were charged with, they were charged with "Indecent sexual conduct," or "indecent exposure," "lewd sexual conduct in public" whatever the charge was in that state.

My point was that there are numerous offenses which can land you on one of the lists that don't involve raping children or being an active threat to society. The lists, and criteria for having to register, differ from state to state.

I am not an apologist for molestors, pedophiles, rapists, etc........ they can all be shot for all I care. Hell, I would do it for free. I can't stand anyone who hurts children or old people (those are my pet peeves on the job). I am just someone who works within the system and has seen cases where I have said, "Wow, someone had to register for life for that?"

For example, I had an internship with probation and parole while in college. One of the guys under our supervision was the example from my first post....... HS senior who met a girl at a party, he was 18, she said that she was 17, the went to different schools, he had never met her, etc. ........ turns out she was 14, and her mommy and daddy found out that she had slept with this guy. They were not happy, and called the police.

It was consensual, that was never disputed. The girl also testified that she had lied to the guy and said that she was 17 (we had the files)..... it didn't matter. He got 7 years in the pen for statuatory rape, and has to register for the rest of his life as a sex offender, can't live around schools, be near parks with kids, etc.

Also, in my experience as an officer, I have seen how many times parents have used their kids as pawns in divorce and child custody battles....... It is amazing how many "mothers" discover that their children are being "abused" by their soon to be ex's during child custody battles. It's a game, people trying to hurt each other and work the system. The adults can't even look you in the eye when telling the story. It's absurd, but it happens every day.

My main point was that it is important to look at the charge when assessing your "threat level" based on these lists. Some of the people on them have no reason at all to be there, others on there have no reason to still be alive.

Hell, there is currently a case getting national attention where a 17 year old HS kid got 10 years in the pen (and a lifetime of registration) for receiving consensual oral sex from a 15 year old girl at a party. Another judge overturned the sentence....... and it isn't an isolated case. My mother works for the department of correction (as a clerk in inprocessing), and she recently told me that they got in a 18 year old who is doing 5 years for stat rape with his HS girlfriend.

As far as the guys on dateline are concerned, they can rot for all I care. They drove to another location to have sex witha 14 year old. They should be shot.

Take care.

Last edited by mdb23; 08-12-2007 at 13:23.
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