Freedom To Fascism

[JPH]

I would like to post this link to this video for the review and comment of the members of this forum.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...30277175242198

That is the link to the film, which is 1h49m in length.

It starts out on one subject and morphs into a different but related topic as the film progresses.

I would be interested in what those wiser and more experienced members of this forum have to say about both quality of the film and the information presented within.

JPH

Edit: More information as requested however I did leave it vague as to not sway opinions or provide any bias framework.

This film talked about the tax code, RFID chips, globalization, world banking and other related topics. It touches on a long list of other topics but doesn’t go in to detail on them so I will not list them.

If more info is required or requesting I will gladly provide it.

[Kyobanim]

How about a little more description of what it's about.

[Peregrino]

Time to put a foot down. Lately there seems to be a spate of inviting people to explore/share controversial opinions about the state of the Republic and components thereof. If you don't like the way things are/are going, VOTE. GET YOUR FRIENDS TO VOTE. As one lightning rod I know of says - "fight the soft fight now so the hard fight won't be necessary later". In the meantime this board is not about tin-foil hats and black helicopters "coming to take you away". There are other places on the internet to engage in conspiracy theories and seditious behavior. Let's get back to the original intent. Peregrino

[tk27]

delete

[JPH]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

If you don't like the way things are/are going, VOTE. GET YOUR FRIENDS TO VOTE. As one lightning rod I know of says - "fight the soft fight now so the hard fight won't be necessary later".

Originally Posted by Peregrino

There are other places on the Internet to engage in conspiracy theories and seditious behavior. Let's get back to the original intent. Peregrino

First off I love this country and understand that even if the first half of that film is true, this country still needs an income to provide the services that we enjoy everyday. My goal here is not to engage in conspiracy theories or the like.

My goal is to discuses, with educated people who do not engage in name-calling or other forms of schoolyard debate, how we the people can with our vote and other constitutional rights prevent the fall of this country. Although this film WAS NOT the light that showed me that neither party, Republican or Democrat, is truly on the right track IMO, it did spark me to post in this forum and seek the opinions and advice of those my senior.

I have voted in every election that I have been of the legal age to vote in. I have driven my friends to get registered to vote and then driven them to the polls… So I feel I have fulfilled the “vote. get your friends to vote” requirement above.

With all that said, I would like to prevent, by every legal means at my disposal, what is in my view the socialization of The United States of America. That would include preventing RFID chips, National ID cards, Amnesty for illegal aliens, The export of American jobs, and the total reliance on foreign resources of food, energy, or technology…

I do not believe we should be isolationist, I understand that we must be players in the global economy, but to what extent, at what point are we letting outsiders write our laws?

Again if this is a discussion that you all whish not to have in your house I respect that but again let me make it clear that I am not looking to talk about conspiracy theories. Instead I would like to have a civil adult conversation on what we the people can do today, in 08 and beyond to preserve what so many on this board have fought to protect. And to my knowledge this is the only online forum that I have ever been to that is capable of having such a discussion.

With all do respect,
JPH

[Warrior-Mentor]

"If Fasicm ever came to America,
it would be called Anit-Fascism."
- Huey Long

Any video that starts with questioning the legality of taxes is out there...

If one thinks you can live in a civilized society for nothing, they are sorely mistaken.

Roads, schools, public transit, trash collection, postal services...[insert endless list here]

who's to pay for them?

Gotta do better than a fringe, fruitloop video...

[The Reaper]

Not to put on a tinfoil hat, but how long do you think we have had a personal income tax?

How were services funded before that?

Do you think it is more efficient to hire a garbage collector yourself, or to have the government collect your money and do it for you?

The vast entitlement programs (and the ponzi scheme of Social Security and Medicare) would not be possible without it.

Are schools better now than they were before income taxes were established? They are tremendously supported by Federal tax money today, but without results based accounting.

And the process of taking it out of your paycheck (as a convenience) before you get it makes it more palatable, because you never see the money.

If more Americans had to stroke a check every year for 28-45%% of their income to the Federal Government, 5% more for SS and Medicare, and another 5-15% to the State and local governments, there would be a lot of political changes and more accountability in spending.

Just my looney fringe opinion.

TR

[tk27]

Originally Posted by Warrior-Mentor

"If Fasicm ever came to America,
it would be called Anti-Fascism."
- Huey Long

What does it imply then if we say we are fighting "Islamofascism"?

[Warrior-Mentor]

Originally Posted by tk27

What does it imply then if we say we are fighting "Islamofascism"?

It paints the terrorists with the Nazi paint brush.
Makes it appeal to the "Greatest Generation."

[Warrior-Mentor]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Not to put on a tinfoil hat, but how long do you think we have had a personal income tax?

How were services funded before that?

Do you think it is more efficient to hire a garbage collector yourself, or to have the government collect your money and do it for you?

The vast entitlement programs (and the ponzi scheme of Social Security and Medicare) would not be possible without it.

Are schools better now than they were before income taxes were established? They are tremendously supported by Federal tax money today, but without results based accounting.

And the process of taking it out of your paycheck (as a convenience) before you get it makes it more palatable, because you never see the money.

If more Americans had to stroke a check every year for 28-45%% of their income to the Federal Government, 5% more for SS and Medicare, and another 5-15% to the State and local governments, there would be a lot of political changes and more accountability in spending.

Just my looney fringe opinion.

TR

There is no doubt that private industry is exponentially more efficient that the governement in running commercially profitable programs. Look at low income housing. Government run results in "The Projects." Government incentivized [to private investors] results in efficient, affordable (yet profitable) low-income housing.

Who would have had the vision [and the funding] in the 1960's to start a complete the space program. How many benefits have globally grown out of that program?

I am no friend of government entitlement programs. It [the entitlement mentality] is the bane of our nation. Yet the very sound of it, creates a palatable sound byte for politicians.

Taking it out of your pay check was an efficient necessity of WWII.

America NEVER promised an entitlement.
It only promised an OPPORTUNITY.
That is the foundation of the American Dream.
Somewhere that message has been lost.

Who would fund our national defense without income tax?

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Warrior-Mentor

Who would fund our national defense without income tax?

I ask you again, how long have we had a personal income tax?

Where did the federal funding come from before that?

TR

[Peregrino]

Originally Posted by JPH

With all do respect,
JPH

JPH - You did ask and you do deserve a considered reply. The Libertarian "expose'" in the video that started this thread is correct. It is also irrelevant. As WM and TR have pointed out - taxes are necessary. As TR is driving home, they've been around a long time. Few complained because early collections weren't payroll taxes imposed on the average citizen. Today, the majority of this country cannot exist/function without the services the government provides. Many of those services are "extra-Constitutional". Again - it really doesn't matter the way the conspiracy theorists would have people believe. The People have the government they want/deserve. If you disagree, and want an accountable Congress, responsible to whatever you perceive the "Will of the People" to be, then the only legal option is to participate fully in the political process. As you implied in your post, simply voting is not really enough. Push for a Constitutional Amendment forced from the State level imposing term limits on the congresscritters. In the meantime, you're beating a dead horse.

As for the larger issues - welcome to the pendulum theory of societal evolution. (I prefer the wheel as an analogy; pendulums never go anywhere whereas (living) cultures are in constant motion. The same point of a wheel always comes around; it's just a little further down the timeline - always similar, never the same. And lessons from the past still influence the present/future.) The country has not "fallen", nor is it going to fall. It's just going to continue evolving. Some of us don't/won't like the direction but it can only happen IAW the "Will of the People". When enough of us don't like the direction, it will change. The only issue in doubt is the mechanism.

FWIW you can trace the overt decline of the Republic to "The War of Northern Aggression". The measures Lincoln instituted to preserve the Union (suspending the Constitution and usurping the will of the people and States Rights by force of arms) were as pivotal as throwing a switch in a rail yard. The train is on a different track and has been moving away from the "original intent" for at least 160 YEARS. The next major turning point (in my mind) was FDR and the Great Depression. Enter Socialism (actually it can be argued that it's the American Fascism your video complains about). As the pace of society increases so too do the opportunities to "influence" the train's route, e.g. Johnson's "Great Society". Since the original usurpation, whenever a decision point has been reached, it has become easier to shift further from individual freedoms (and responsibilities)/States Rights and closer to a tyrannical (as defined by the Libertarians) stateist regime.

"The body of the American people is substantially republican. But their virtuous feelings have been played upon by some fact with more fiction, they have been the dupes of artful manoeuvres, & made for a moment to be willing instruments in forging chains for themselves."
- Thomas Jefferson

Returning to the path envisioned by the Founding Fathers will require a profound shift in the American psyche. Change is either evolutionary or revolutionary. We've gotten where we are today as the result of a perfectly natural evolution. We no longer have the government the Founding fathers envisioned, mainly because the vast body of "the People" don't want it. (Most of them have no understanding of it, nor do they care so long as their lives aren't inconvenienced.) Maybe it will come back around though probably not in our lifetimes. Freedom exists best on a frontier. We'll need a new one before conditions exist again to foster the "rugged individualism" that is the antithesis of modern society yet is required for true freedom to thrive. A few points to ponder:

If you’re insistent on exploring the Libertarian mindset, check out Backwoods Home Magazine at http://www.backwoodshome.com. Two of their authors, John Silveira and Claire Wolfe regularly contribute thought provoking (regardless of your political orientation) articles. Both have decidedly Libertarian viewpoints and they do their homework. Expect to be forced to think, and to examine why you believe whatever you do. Unfortunately most will respond with a “knee jerk”.

You should also read more by Alexis de Tocqueville. For a 19th century Frenchman he had an amazing grasp of the motivating forces behind democracies in general and America in particular. Applicable quotes really are too numerous to repeat here.

He's not the only one. "The fate of every democracy, of every government based on the sovereignty of the people, depends on the choices it makes between these opposite principles, absolute power on the one hand, and on the other the restraints of legality and the authority of tradition."
John Acton

You might also want to examine lessons learned from the "Rise and Fall of the Roman Republic". IMNSHO there are a lot of parallels.

The only important question is: “where do you draw the line and what price are you willing to pay to hold it”?

FWIW - Peregrino

[The Reaper]

Couldn't say it better myself, other than to add the quote that the fall of the Roman Empire began when the people discovered that they could vote to give themselves money from the public coffers.

TR

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

FWIW you can trace the overt decline of the Republic to "The War of Northern Aggression". The measures Lincoln instituted to preserve the Union (suspending the Constitution and usurping the will of the people and States Rights by force of arms) were as pivotal as throwing a switch in a rail yard. The train is on a different track and has been moving away from the "original intent" for at least 160 YEARS.

"War of Northern Aggression," LMAO!

BTW, do states have the right to enslave people by majority vote?

[kgoerz]

I just stroked a check for $22000.00. I use to get money back. But work harder and longer to provide a better life for the family and this is what you get. What ever happened to the flat tax across the board some politicians were proposing except for the multi rich. Always sounded like a good idea to me. Most of us PMC guys make a little over 100,000 a year which puts us in the lowest end of the highest tax bracket and it hurts. Even claiming every bullet and pen I buy it seems like I am paying to much. The CPA I use said thats just the way it is, a lot of PMC guys use the CPA I use and are in the same boat as far as giving up 20 to 30 percent of your check to the Govt. Sometimes I think getting a job around Bragg that pays less will actually pay more in the long run with out having to deploy half the year. Just my thoughts on freaking TAXES and Govt wast.....