Guardsmen overrun at the Border and RETREAT

**Team Sergeant** · 01-06-2007, 10:06

This was MSM headline news and no one posted it. I was actually waiting for someone to write something about the incident.

Our soldiers are fighting and dying in foreign countries for people they don't know.

Yet those NG soldiers that defend OUR BORDER RETREAT.

They Retreated on our own soil, American soil.

Now I understand why we're allowing 20 million illegals a free ticket to citizenship, as a nation we have no guts. We've lost the ability to take a stand against anything or anybody.

This is got to be the saddest crap I've read in years.

Someone please let me know when you need the American flag lowered in tucson arizona and I'll come and get it and defend it with my life.

Team Sergeant

Guardsmen overrun at the Border
12 News
Jan. 4, 2007 02:44 PM

National Guard unit stormed while patroling the border
Border attack raises security concerns

A U.S. Border Patrol entry Identification Team site was overrun Wednesday night along Arizona's border with Mexico.

According to the Border Patrol, an unknown number of gunmen attacked the site in the state's West Desert Region around 11 p.m. The site is manned by National Guardsmen. Those guardsmen were forced to retreat.

The Border Patrol will not say whether shots were fired. However, no Guardsmen were injured in the incident.

The Border Patrol says the incident occurred somewhere along the 120 mile section of the border between Nogales and Lukeville. The area is known as a drug corridor. Last year, 124-thousand pounds of illegal drugs were confiscated in this area.

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news...ry0104-CR.html

Five-O · 01-06-2007, 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Someone please let me know when you need the American flag lowered in tucson arizona and I'll come and get it and defend it with my life.

Team Sergeant

TS you would not be alone.

Max_Tab · 01-06-2007, 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-O

TS you would not be alone.

Before I make any comments on this, I would like to know what there ROE's are, and if they even had any ammo with them. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, you can't blame them for retreating IF they were taking fire, and didn't have any bullets to return fire.

dr. mabuse · 01-06-2007, 10:37

*

Surgicalcric · 01-06-2007, 10:55

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=51417

Quote:

When Border Patrol Agent Ignacio Ramos pulled the trigger last February, all he knew was that his partner was lying on the ground behind him – bloodied from a struggle with a fleeing suspect – shots had been fired and now, it appeared, the drug smuggler he was pursuing had turned toward him with what looked to be a gun in his hand.

In the split-second he had to respond, Ramos determined the course of his and his partner's lives – federal prison for the next 20 years for assault with serious bodily injury, assault with a deadly weapon, discharging of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence, violating civil rights and obstruction of justice...

Maybe the NG soldiers were apprehensive to stand their ground after the above happened or maybe their ROE wasnt well defined. There are other articles which mention the CANG being sent to the border unarmed.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16483867/

Quote:

TUCSON, Ariz. - National Guard troops at an observation post near the Mexico border were forced to flee a group of armed people, who later ran into Mexico, authorities said.

The troops, who are not allowed to apprehend illegal border crossers, withdrew safely and no one was injured, said National Guard Sgt. Edward Balaban...

When are we gonna take the leashes off our watch dogs (LEO, USBP, Military) and let them do their damn jobs?

Crip

Gypsy · 01-06-2007, 10:56

From what I've read the NG are unarmed, and are not allowed to apprehend illegals from entering. What the hell...

**Kyobanim** · 01-06-2007, 10:56

I do know that they are not allowed to apprehend anyone, but I can't find any info on the ROE for this situation. They are just supposed to be there to observe and report.

ObliqueApproach · 01-06-2007, 10:57

To the last cartridge......!

Gypsy · 01-06-2007, 11:00

http://www.lincolntribune.com/module...p?storyid=5749

Quote:

A Border Patrol agent, who requested anonymity, says that the well-armed intruders were drug traffickers who are fully aware US National Guard troops are prohibited from carrying any type of weapon and have been ordered not to confront lawbreakers coming across the border. The Guard troops are not allowed to apprehend illegal entrants, as well.

"Basically, the National Guard troops are doing what private groups such as the Minuteman Project have done at US borders -- observe and report," said a Homeland Security Department official.

Max_Tab · 01-06-2007, 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gypsy

http://www.lincolntribune.com/module...p?storyid=5749

Except the minutemen are armed.

**Team Sergeant** · 01-06-2007, 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gypsy

A Border Patrol agent, who requested anonymity, says that the well-armed intruders were drug traffickers who are fully aware US National Guard troops are prohibited from carrying any type of weapon and have been ordered not to confront lawbreakers coming across the border. The Guard troops are not allowed to apprehend illegal entrants, as well.

"Basically, the National Guard troops are doing what private groups such as the Minuteman Project have done at US borders -- observe and report," said a Homeland Security Department official.

lincolntribune.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5749

Ever wonder “how” the drug traffickers became fully aware of this little known fact?

WHEN SPECIAL FORCES USED TO PLACE SOLDIERS ON THE MEXICAN BORDER WE NEVER PLACED THEM IN HARMS WAY WITHOUT THE ABILITY TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.

ANY HOMELAND SECURITY, STATE OR FEDERAL AGENCY PLACING SOLDIERS IN HARMS WAY WITHOUT THE ABILITY TO DEFEND THEMSELVES SHOULD THEY THEMSELVES BE RELIEVED OF COMMAND AND CHARGED WITH GROSS NEGLIGENCE IF AND WHEN ANY MEMBER OF THE UNITED STATES MILITARY IS INJURED OR KILLED BY AN ARMED DRUG RUNNER.

HAVE WE ALL LOST OUR F***ING MINDS? DOES ANYONE IN LOCAL, STATE, OR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT POSSESS AN IQ HIGHER THAN A COMMON FIELD MOUSE?

All I can think is corruption on a huge level, local state and federal.

"Sgt Smith I see armed drug runners."

"Let’s all retreat."

"But who will stop them if not the US Military."

"No one Pvt Jones, no one."

(Just pray the jihadist never confront us on our soil.)

**Ambush Master** · 01-06-2007, 11:44

Have '60 WILL TRAVEL!!!!

Gypsy · 01-06-2007, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Ever wonder “how” the drug traffickers became fully aware of this little known fact?

I have no doubt how, TS.

And though I support our President on most matters...this is complete and utter BS. I absolutely cannot wrap my brain around the logic, actually the lack thereof.

CoLawman · 01-06-2007, 12:12

One needs to read "The Reapers Line" by SA Lee Morgan II to fully appreciate the gross negligence in posting UNARMED US military in that area. There should be heads rolling over this decision!

The Mexican Federal Judicial Police are bought and paid for by the Cartels. Our federal agents have exchanged gunfire on numerous occassions with these corrupt FEDERAL law enforcement agents of the Mexican Mafia, I mean Mexican Government. A corrupt government that rises all the way to Vicente Fox and now Felipe Calderon. For years the Mexican government has not concerned itself with diplomatic sensitivities. Yet our government has determined that it is best to remove any risk of creating an "international" incident by not arming our soldiers.

I believe the placing of the US military on our borders is proving to be nothing more than a press release. It is window dressing to the n-th degree.

Even more bothersome is that the Mexicans recognize this operation as nothing more than a paper tiger and will continue to exploit this sham. By placing the National Guard on the border, have we reassigned the armed border patrol agents to other areas? I would assume this is the case.

Our National Guard did not RETREAT they FLED for their lives. To retreat implies that we were formerly on the attack or managing a defensible position. IMO this was not the case, thus they FLED as any unarmed civilian would have done under similar circumstances.

God help America!

Snaquebite · 01-06-2007, 12:23

My company (B/2/3) did over 12 months (two deployments 92/93) doing JTF6 missions. The ROE was really screwed up...I'll do some digging and see if I can find it. Bottom line was you couldn't even have a mag inserted until you were fired upon. We forgot to read that part though... In 97 a marine almost went to prison for defending his and others lives...the jury refused to indict though.

Snaque (looking through old files)

EDIT: Still looking but ran across this...shows how screwed up ROE can be for the guy on the ground....
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a524da543e3.htm