10-29-2006, 17:05
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#1
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Afghanistan
Posts: 104
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Rock River Arms M-4
I was talking to a shop here in town and they mentioned that Rock River Arms is having a huge problem supplying contractors overseas with a rifle that doesn't malfunction due to dust/dirt. He said that because RRA rifles are so accurate and built so tight they don't hold up well in the desert; and that they basically urge people to purchase Bushmasters here in town since we are in the same type of environment. Do you think this sounds right? The first thing that I thought was the shop makes more of a profit off of the Bushmasters than the RRA's. I just want a second opinion before I drop a grand on a Bushmaster.
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"Only the dead have seen the end of war." -Plato
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Intel_Airman is offline
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10-29-2006, 17:21
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,804
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BS.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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10-29-2006, 17:28
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#3
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Afghanistan
Posts: 104
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Thanks TR, I thought it sounded fishy.
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"Only the dead have seen the end of war." -Plato
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Intel_Airman is offline
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10-29-2006, 19:50
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#4
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The Machinist
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Springfield Oregon
Posts: 172
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We have found that people are not wanting to wait for a Rock River when Bushmasters are generally an "instock" item. Rock River has gotten their production speed up so your wait will not be too long for delivery. Rock River builds a beautiful rifle.
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gunnerjohn is offline
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10-29-2006, 21:18
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,701
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Total BS. I have one of each. The BM has been demoted to "safe queen" (quality control/reliability problems) and will eventually be replaced when I get another RR. Besides, I like the guys at RR better - they treated me well and gave me what I wanted (non-std upper) without hassle/second guessing. All-in-all a pleasant shopping experience. FWIW - Peregrino
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Peregrino is offline
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10-29-2006, 21:39
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,475
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Im sort of leaning to DSA's new M-4
http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cf...age=Z4CROS.gif
Same gas system as the FN-FAL You can order just a upper if you already have a lower.
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7624U is offline
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10-29-2006, 21:44
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,804
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Here is a thought.
They are lying to you about this, wonder what else they might have steered you wrong on?
Sounds to me like they should not be trusted, why would you do business with them in the future?
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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10-30-2006, 07:49
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#8
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,403
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by 7624U
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That's what I did, put that POF upper on a LMT lower. I have a couple thousand flawless rounds through it on a flat range - it'll eat anything. I have a young friend who borrows it for 3-gun matches/training who swears by it. I'm trying to get him to introduce himself and write up a short review.
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mugwump
“Klaatu barada nikto”
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mugwump is offline
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10-30-2006, 11:49
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#9
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Asset
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: GA
Posts: 27
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What is the delivery time, I talked with Chris at POF a week or so ago and he said they were 3 to 4 months out on their uppers...L&W has their gas piston uppers ready to ship now...I am trying to clear some financial hurdles and plan to put one of them on a RRA lower...
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fish78 is offline
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10-30-2006, 11:58
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,804
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by fish78
What is the delivery time, I talked with Chris at POF a week or so ago and he said they were 3 to 4 months out on their uppers...L&W has their gas piston uppers ready to ship now...I am trying to clear some financial hurdles and plan to put one of them on a RRA lower...
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Not sure, an individal at the SHOT told me that the POF, HK, and Colt designs were all in violation of existing patents and that he was the designer.
I like the concept, but think that the prices are out of line, given the fact that a well-built, maintained, lubed, AR with good ammo and mags should run for several thousand rounds between stoppages. Crane claims that the M-4 should run well for 2,000 rounds between cleanings. IMHO, a lot of the AR reliability issues relate to Frankenguns that people are assembling from junk parts, bad ammo, and bad mags, with inadequate lubrication.
I sent an email to POF a long time ago and IIRC, never got a reply, so I gave up on them. The HK 416 could be a good choice for the future if the price was right.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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10-30-2006, 12:54
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#11
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Asset
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: GA
Posts: 27
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The folks I know with L&W conversions, complete guns and uppers speak highly of them...they are working on getting the prices down....
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fish78 is offline
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10-30-2006, 12:59
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: South Georiga
Posts: 797
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All this talk of guns, guns, guns! Why can't we all just get along?
Jim
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Breaking a law or violation of a regulation is not a mistake. It is willful misconduct.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." [Samuel Adams]
Jim
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incommin is offline
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10-30-2006, 17:37
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,475
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by incommin
All this talk of guns, guns, guns! Why can't we all just get along?
Jim
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Couse everyone would like bigger guns 
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7624U is offline
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10-30-2006, 19:43
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#14
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: People's Republic of Pineland
Posts: 94
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I was in a class last week in WV and there were two L&W guns there. One was a 10.5" sub gun and the other was a 16" carbine. The guns ran flawlessly.
Last edited by STR8SHTR; 10-30-2006 at 20:03.
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STR8SHTR is offline
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10-31-2006, 18:40
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lacey Washington
Posts: 737
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by 7624U
Im sort of leaning to DSA's new M-4 Same gas system as the FN-FAL You can order just a upper if you already have a lower.
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7624U;
Still is kind pricey. Question for you as you seem interested in this design.
What do you see in this design that will give you a quantum improvement over a standard design?
Gene
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Gene Econ is offline
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