Title Etiquette Question

CoLawman · 08-24-2006, 22:49

When an individual is a LTC retired is he referred to as Colonel or Lt. Colonel.
My guess is Lt. Colonel . This has come up twice in the past couple of weeks.
Thanks in advance.

**Jack Moroney (RIP)** · 08-25-2006, 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoLawman

When an individual is a LTC retired is he referred to as Colonel or Lt. Colonel.
My guess is Lt. Colonel . This has come up twice in the past couple of weeks.
Thanks in advance.

In normal conversation and non-offical correspondence (other than in the address line either on the correspondence or envelope or in the signature block) the Lieutenant is dropped. Just like all generals are referred to general and Lts have no distinction between 2nd and 1st. If they use their title in retirement (which they are authorized to do socially and in conjunction with commerical enterprizes) there are some restrictions, but in every case they have to indicate that they are in fact retired and that the use of their title in no way has anything to do with the military nor can it be used to bring discredit upon the military.

Now that is the generally accepted procedure. However you always have some peckerhead that wants to make sure everyone knows he was a "full" bull or a "senior" lieutenant, etc. You can usually spot them just by checking the laundry hanging out on the clothesline because their will be to two little pin holes from their insignia on the lapels of their pajama shirt where they wore their pin on rank to bed.

Matta mile · 08-25-2006, 06:04

Hi Sir,
I agree with your response within at least the Army, however in a Marine environment they are picky in comaprison when it comes to rank. Staff Sergeant is not Sergeant, LTC is not Colonel etc.. I learned this lesson the hard way.

Chet

Soft Target · 08-25-2006, 06:59

Colonel, you hit it very well. Although, when I was on active duty, I never referred to myself as Colonel, but was called that often as you said. I remember being told by my boss at the time that I came out on the list, that I should never become a "telephone Colonel" and I never did.

incommin · 08-25-2006, 14:24

This old CSM's military education says COL Moroney had it right!

PSM · 08-25-2006, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by incommin

This old CSM's military education says COL Moroney had it right!

As for NCOs, I know, after almost 40 years, that I never called a Sergeant Major "Sergeant".

Pat

Tubbs · 08-25-2006, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matta mile

Hi Sir,
I agree with your response within at least the Army, however in a Marine environment they are picky in comaprison when it comes to rank. Staff Sergeant is not Sergeant, LTC is not Colonel etc.. I learned this lesson the hard way.

Chet

This is correct, if the individul was/is a marine, the correct rank and title should always be used regardless of the situation. The only exception being that a LT is always just a LT regardless of grade.

CoLawman · 08-25-2006, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by incommin

This old CSM's military education says COL Moroney had it right!

This leads to the next etiquette questions then. Do you refer to a CSM as Sgt. Major when adressing them in conversation, or Command Sgt. Major.

Is the term "Top" strictly for First Sergeants?

lksteve · 08-25-2006, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoLawman

This leads to the next etiquette questions then. Do you refer to a CSM as Sgt. Major when adressing them in conversation, or Command Sgt. Major.

always referred to them as "Sergeant Major" when addressing them...

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoLawman

Is the term "Top" strictly for First Sergeants?

had a First Sergeant when i was a company commander that asked to be address as "First Sergeant", and under no circumstances as "Top"...told my lieutenants as much at the morning meeting...my scout platoon leader must have been napping...a few days later, he erred and address the 1SG as "Top" in front of some NCOs...

"Sir, if you think you can pull my *****ing string and watch me spin around the *****ing room, bouncing off the ******ing wall, you are -******ing wrong...!"
the LT beat a hasty retreat into my office where i told him "I told you so..."

Radar Rider · 08-25-2006, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by lksteve

always referred to them as "Sergeant Major" when addressing them...

had a First Sergeant when i was a company commander that asked to be address as "First Sergeant", and under no circumstances as "Top"...told my lieutenants as much at the morning meeting...my scout platoon leader must have been napping...a few days later, he erred and address the 1SG as "Top" in front of some NCOs...

"Sir, if you think you can pull my *****ing string and watch me spin around the *****ing room, bouncing off the ******ing wall, you are -******ing wrong...!"
the LT beat a hasty retreat into my office where i told him "I told you so..."

Such is the disparity of the enlisted force. I am a First Sergeant of a Company on Fort Meade; an MI Company. My troops call me "Top". That is an appellation that I encourage, because I like it. I will be Top, and to hell with anyone that doesn't like it. Call me Top!

kgoerz · 08-25-2006, 18:46

Myself along with lots of my friends and I am sure many others. After 20 years of mostly Team Time and spotless Records we are called Sergeant First Class after we retired. Wonder why so many retired as soon as eligible. Best time of my life was in SF, only regret was the NCO Rank promotion procedures worked out. But you can all address me as Keith.

NousDefionsDoc · 08-25-2006, 19:34

I have several other epithets for "Keith"

I always saw "Top" as more of a conventional thing. We don't have First Sergeants in SF and I never called my Team Sergeants "Top". I called them by their nicknames or if I was pissed, I would call them "Team Sergeant" in that special tone usually known as Smart Ass-ese. As in, "Yes, TEAM SERGEANT, the med package is GTG." Translated as, "I've done this shit before, go bother the Bravos." LOL I mostly saw "Top" used in conventional units by good Junior NCOs - it was sort of a priviledge thing.

Calling a Sergeant Major "Top"? LOL - no freakin' way. The Sergeant Major or CSM is always "Sergeant Major" - as in "What are you doing shithead?"
"Serving proudly Sergeant Major!"

The BC and Group Commander are usually "The Old Man" - never to their face, but it is a term of respect. Context is important in knowing the subject of the conversation. Company Commanders can also be "The Old Man" - if they are very well liked.

Usually in the SF units I was in, the more formal the address, the less well they were liked - situation dependent of course. Sort of like a Southern Mom addressing a child by their full name in order to get their attention. LOL

Quote:

You can usually spot them just by checking the laundry hanging out on the clothesline because their will be to two little pin holes from their insignia on the lapels of their pajama shirt where they wore their pin on rank to bed.

That was funny Sir.

Monsoon65 · 08-25-2006, 20:38

As everyone here knows, things in the AF are a lot more "relaxed", not that I like it any. For me, officers are addressed by their rank or "Sir/Ma'am". I figure they worked hard to get where they are, why shouldn't I address them by their title?

Same with the enlisted. My Chief (E-9) is "Chief", even tho I've known him for 10+ years.

In the ANG, it's really weird. Several of the pilots I fly with are Captains, and at one time, I outranked them when they were E-4s and E-5s. Our intel officer is a 2LT that I knew as a MSgt (E-7). (I tell him that his commissioning was the waste of a perfectly good NCO). These gentlemen I might address by their first names, if no one else is around.

08-26-2006, 05:51

Do you begin or finish every voicing with the title, or just at the beginning of a conversation?

I am not very used to titles.

Thanks!

Martin

lksteve · 08-26-2006, 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin

Do you begin or finish every voicing with the title, or just at the beginning of a conversation?

depends on the conversation...no more than one per sentence, lest the listener confuse you with one of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children...