Blackwater

BMT (RIP) · 07-23-2006, 03:40

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories...7946&ran=29743

BMT

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TFM · 07-23-2006, 12:57

It will be interesting to see how large this industry grows over the next decade, and how much Uncle Sam relies on them.

7624U · 07-24-2006, 05:37

So you pay them 20k so you can make them money after your trained lol

NousDefionsDoc · 07-24-2006, 06:03

Well, at least they are trying to train them and not just sending them out to die in place. Does the price seem high to you guys for an 8 week course? Doesn't really seem all that high to me, of course that would depend on the quality of instruction as well. No way to judge looking in.

I agree with TFM, it will be interesting to watch this all develop.

Five-O · 07-24-2006, 06:32

Is it the industry standard to have to pay for your own training? Most civilian companies recruit and hire the best available candidates then send them through their new hire training program...at company cost. While the new hire is in training his pay is at a lower rate until graduation. The article said certain guys with the right resume by pass the academy and go right to work....that makes sense. Although I am sure they go through some Blackwater SOP type training. Do any companies in this industry PAY for the employee training and offer the new hire a living wage while in the training program??

NDD....While the training I am sure is comprehensive......20K does sound too steep.

NousDefionsDoc · 07-24-2006, 06:43

One of the problems is company jumping. Guys will sign on with a company, get the company provided training, then move to another company for a few bucks more. I see this as a way to keep from losing money.
This type of training isn't cheap. Unfortunately in today's world, money is often the only way to get a committment. It wouldn't surprise me if that training money is made up after a reasonable period in bonuses or some such.

Five-O · 07-24-2006, 06:50

Makes sense. I think the market place will eventually have an effect. More start up companies will drive competition thus force companies to offer more attractive new hire packages. Very interesting to see also how the private companies will come to integrate (if at all) with US forces. Especially when a (down range) BN commander sees one of his former company commanders or squad leaders walking around in 5.11 pants and vest. Wonder if personal relationship will have an effect if they all ready have not?

Hugh · 07-24-2006, 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

Well, at least they are trying to train them and not just sending them out to die in place. Does the price seem high to you guys for an 8 week course? Doesn't really seem all that high to me, of course that would depend on the quality of instruction as well. No way to judge looking in.

Actually seems on the low side to me. My Experience setting up training with another commercial organization is that 10- 15 days of training for USG non-operators in pistol, carbine, driving and other very basics costs about 1/3 to 1/2 of that 8 week price.

**Team Sergeant** · 07-24-2006, 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-O

Is it the industry standard to have to pay for your own training?

One word of advice, there is "NO" industry standard when it comes to civilian weapons and training in the United States, none, zero. While I agree there is a huge industry, there is none that sets a standard.

For all you know the trainers at Blackwater were former Mall Security Specialists that have great people skills.

Point in case, there was a military channel special where a Texas SWAT Team was attending training at a civilian facility in Texas and they were using this instructors "Black Powder" breaching charge to breach doors. The instructor was an idiot and the SWAT Team was paying big money to be trained by said idiot.

There are no standards.

TS

BMT (RIP) · 07-24-2006, 07:46

http://www.hamptonroads.com/pilotonline/

More on Blackwater.

BMT

NousDefionsDoc · 07-24-2006, 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

One word of advice, there is "NO" industry standard when it comes to civilian weapons and training in the United States, none, zero. While I agree there is a huge industry, there is none that sets a standard.

For all you know the trainers at Blackwater were former Mall Security Specialists that have great people skills.

Point in case, there was a military channel special where a Texas SWAT Team was attending training at a civilian facility in Texas and they were using this instructors "Black Powder" breaching charge to breach doors. The instructor was an idiot and the SWAT Team was paying big money to be trained by said idiot.

There are no standards.

TS

+1. Buyer beware.

huntcg · 07-24-2006, 08:41

In the discussion of companies that charge their employees for expensive training, the commercial aviation industry comes to mind. It is not uncommon for regional carriers and small freight lines to charge their pilots for their type ratings at FlightSafety Int'l or SimuFlight, courses which can easily run upwards of $20,000. NDD is dead-on in pointing out that this does prevent someone from jumping ship soon after training.

As for running into former comrades downrange, in early '04 we did run into our former company commander, who had been relieved about 6 months earlier and sent home. He was back in Baghdad with Custer Battles. From our limited dealings with THAT company, it would seem that they certainly did not have any kind of training program or standard prior to sending their employees into the Middle East. They were a mess and generally a pain to deal with. That being said, the Blackwater guys were usually very professional, and squared away when compared to most of the other contractors doing business in our area.

Five-O · 07-24-2006, 08:46

TS and NDD...you guys are saying what my instincts were telling me. While I am sure that there are very HIGH caliber people employeed by BW and others...the attraction of the yahoo/stroke job/soldier of fortune wannabe type seems high. Maybe the companies suck up the 20K from those types then bless off on them never intending to send them on a job and save the real jobs for the former SOCOM boys. Just guessing.

brewmonkey · 07-24-2006, 09:58

Not only does the $20K keep them from jumping ship it weeds out those who do not really have the desire right upfront. When asked to put out that kind of cash you generally ask yourself a few questions. While I am sure a few do slip through the instructors, if they are good ones, will find them and send them packing.

uboat509 · 07-24-2006, 10:47

I tend to think that this is more than a little high. Among the people I have talked to in the community Blackwater does not have the best reputation. I have always been advised that if I was going to go into contractor work I should look at other contractors.

SFC W