Bin Laden and US law

NousDefionsDoc · 04-20-2006, 16:24

I'll move this to Terrorism later - right now I want maximum exposure.

Question is: If we capture Bin Laden and bring him to the US to stand trial, what can we convict him of? Hell, what can we charge him with for that matter?

And save the, "It'll never happen!" and "They've got orders!" and all that.

Warrior-Mentor · 04-20-2006, 16:31

Recognizing I'm no lawyer, perhaps these would fit the bill...

-- Usama bin Laden, leader of the terrorist organization Al-Qaida, is
charged in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the U.S.
embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. These
attacks resulted in the deaths of more than 200 people, including 12
American citizens, and injuries to more than 4,000 individuals, among
whom were Muslims. A summary of the facts of this terrorist act can be
found on the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation's internet web site:
www.fbi.gov/majcases/eastafrica.summary.htm

-- As a result of extensive criminal investigation, and working
closely with Kenya, Tanzania, and other nations, the U.S. Government
has indicted or filed criminal complaints against bin Laden and 16 of
his associates for their involvement in the two bombings and other
terrorist crimes. The U.S. indictment detailing the charges against
bin Laden can be found on the internet web site of the U.S. Federal
Bureau of Investigation:

Here's the link to the full story:
http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2000/12/...05-afgzss2.htm

These wouldn't be bad either...

Conspiracy to commit mass murder.

Conspiracy to commit acts of terror.

JM

**Airbornelawyer** · 04-20-2006, 16:31

Inter alia,

Conspiracy to Commit Acts of Terrorism Transcending National Boundaries
(18 U.S.C. §§ 2332b(a)(2) & (c))

Conspiracy to Commit Aircraft Piracy
(49 U.S.C. §§ 46502(a)(1)(A) and (a)(2)(B))

Conspiracy to Destroy Aircraft
(18 U.S.C. §§ 32(a)(7) & 34)

Conspiracy to Use Weapons of Mass Destruction
(18 U.S.C. § 2332a(a))

Conspiracy to Murder United States Employees
(18 U.S.C. §§ 1114 & 1117)

Conspiracy to Destroy Property
(18 U.S.C. §§ 844(f), (i), (n))

Conspiracy to Attack Defense Utilities of the United States
(18 U.S.C. § 2155(b))

**Roguish Lawyer** · 04-20-2006, 16:38

We should not try him. We should just kill him and bury his ass in a puddle of pig blood.

**Airbornelawyer** · 04-20-2006, 16:44

By the way, Bin Laden was already indicted on the last item on that list, back in 1998. Quite effective, that was.

The others are what Zacharias Moussaoui was indicted on.

dedeppm · 04-20-2006, 16:50

According to the FBI posters, UBL is wanted for "Murder of U.S. nationals outside the United States; conspiracy to murder U.S. nationals outside the United States; attack on a federal facility resulting in death."

As we saw in the moussaoui case, all the prosecution has to do is convince the jury that at least one death occurred due to actions taken by the defendant. Of course, he'll probably be guilty of all kinds of other crimes from money laundering and fraud to piracy to crimes against humanity.

While this is slightly off-topic, I did hear an interesting theory regarding his potential sentencing. To avoid allowing him to be seen as a martyr, simply throw him away to a supermax prison to live out the rest of his life in solitary. I want him dead as much as everyone else here, but this does seem to be an interesting idea. IIRC, it was very important for the Iraqi people to see Saddam checked for lice, etc. It did a lot to take away his aura of power and invincibility by showing he was just a man, and a dirty one at that.

Maybe a similar treatment of bin Laden could ensure that his mystique gets taken down a notch. He won't appear to be such a hero anymore living out his days in an orange jumpsuit. It's kind of a moot point, though, as it would be politically impossible to not execute him.

NousDefionsDoc · 04-20-2006, 17:55

Right AL, that's what I was thinking - conspiracy. Isn't conspiracy very difficult to prove, especially given we have KIAd a lot of his initial leadership team?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Bin Laden has never murdered anybody by his own hand. I also doubt he's ever given a direct order to do so.

RL - what'd I say?

Sdiver · 04-20-2006, 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Bin Laden has never murdered anybody by his own hand. I also doubt he's ever given a direct order to do so.

But yet don't we blame Hitler for killing over 6 million Jews. But I seem to remember he never gave an order to do so. I thought it was two other Nazi officers that came up with the "Final Solution".

So if we were to have captured Hitler, could we have tried him for the Holocaust, or just that he invaded Poland and started WW II ??

NousDefionsDoc · 04-20-2006, 19:06

I don't know. But Bin Laden is not the leader of a country with a standing Army.

NousDefionsDoc · 04-20-2006, 20:01

http://www.asil.org/ilib/ilib0411.htm

HEY! I'm serious here damin it!

Smokin Joe · 04-20-2006, 20:02

Screw detention, extradition, trials, imprisionment, and everything else that goes along with his prosectution. Smoke his ass as soon as he is found, don't give him the chance to surrender, then have some no name local state, "yes, I killed him". Confrim his DNA call it done.....convicted!

Convicted...for what charge you ask? I don't care, how about J-walking or conspiracy to commit J-walking or some other chicken shit charge. Either way i doesn't matter to me as long as he is D-E-D dead.

**Ambush Master** · 04-20-2006, 20:12

As I've stated before, kill him and don't say a word about it. Just load the body into an aircraft, fly it out over the ocean and feed the fish!!! No martyr, just disappeared!!!

Slantwire · 04-21-2006, 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambush Master

As I've stated before, kill him and don't say a word about it. Just load the body into an aircraft, fly it out over the ocean and feed the fish!!! No martyr, just disappeared!!!

Which course would be worst / best?

1. Public due process with trial, imprison him, and look soft
2. Public due process with trial, execute him, and have him as a martyr
3. Public "killed while resisting capture," have him as a martyr
4. "Disappear" him, and have years of rumored sightings and faked messages making him out to be some elusive, uncatchable survivor?

Opinions?

TFM · 04-21-2006, 08:51

I could not fathom an American soldier being able to refrain from blowing this man's head off. If he saw a court room I'd be amazed and upset. He needs to see treatment similar to the Saddam boys. That was a pretty picture.

**Airbornelawyer** · 04-21-2006, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

Right AL, that's what I was thinking - conspiracy. Isn't conspiracy very difficult to prove, especially given we have KIAd a lot of his initial leadership team?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Bin Laden has never murdered anybody by his own hand. I also doubt he's ever given a direct order to do so.

RL - what'd I say?

I do not think conspiracy would be difficult to prove. There is an extensive body of evidence - bin Laden's audio and videotapes, al-Qa'ida's "official" statements, testimony of captured AQ members, etc. - as to the existence of the conspiracy. There is extensive evidence of the overt acts in furtherance of the conspiracy (and some Federal statutes don't require an overt act anyway).