04-12-2006, 08:01
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#1
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 137
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I went to a War and a Garrison broke out!
No shit... I'm downrange, in the chow hall, and people are wearing their body armor with a reflective belt over it. Now I'm no expert, but in my mind, if you are in an area where you need to wear body armor, the last thing you need is to be draped in a neon-yellow reflector.
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“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." John Stuart Mill
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VelociMorte is offline
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04-12-2006, 08:31
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Safety First! 
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"The Spartans do not ask how many are the enemy, but where they are."
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Team Sergeant is offline
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04-12-2006, 08:40
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#3
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On orders to 1st SFG
Posts: 80
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Now your talking about my location. I got stopped by a CSM because I was not wearing my roadguard belt at night. Lucky, for me, his LTC was with him, so I didn't tell him what I tought.
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tyrsnbdr is offline
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04-12-2006, 09:03
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Things
Quote:
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Originally Posted by VelociMorte
No shit... I'm downrange, in the chow hall, and people are wearing their body armor with a reflective belt over it. Now I'm no expert, but in my mind, if you are in an area where you need to wear body armor, the last thing you need is to be draped in a neon-yellow reflector.
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Engaging the brain pan should work at all levels. Body armor is to stop things that are flying throught the air quickly. Not all weapons are "sight" based. Reflective belts are to help people been seen for some reason.
At you base has there been a number of individuals hit by military vehicles during times of limited visablitly? Did the CoC put out a memo that all soldiers wear the belt when wandering around on the compound? Or did some CSM just dream it up as a fashion statement.
A silly accident has been the death of many a soldier.
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Pete is offline
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04-12-2006, 09:23
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#5
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Navarre, FL
Posts: 58
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Garrison Mentality has been present since day one...
While attached to a Patriot missile battery on D-Day '03, the ADA's first sergeant came over the net, as we were rolling through the berm into indian country, and instructed everyone to make sure NO one was locked and loaded, as he didn't want any negligent discharges. 
Also, about 2 days into the invasion, we were quite alarmed when we drove by a convoy of soldiers in MOPP 4, as we were only at MOPP 2. We stopped one of their vehicles and they informed us that they were just conducting an exercise...in the middle of the Iraqi desert, during combat operations 
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huntcg is offline
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04-12-2006, 09:28
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Up in a Mountain Patrol Base, away-away / provides-provides and defendable for a short period of time
Posts: 543
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It shouldn't matter where you are. Common sense SHOULD prevail, but often times doesn't. Shit like haveing to carry around un-loaded weapons, with no magazines on your person. Why carry around the thing if you aint/cant use the thing? Or walk around making "on the spot corrections" for hands in pockets or sunglasses on heads when their troops, and themselves for that matter, are having 2-3 AD/ND's per day in the chow line. Point is, train for war, not the damn parade field! Rant over, Have a good 'un
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bubba is offline
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04-12-2006, 10:03
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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What, you mean like a roadguard vest?
Uh uh, you're making that up. Nobody's that dumb.
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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04-12-2006, 10:13
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,837
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
What, you mean like a roadguard vest?
Uh uh, you're making that up. Nobody's that dumb.
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Naw, he means the little 2" wide reflective belt that they make you wear while doing PT, wearing a ruck, or riding a bike. Roadguard vests are obsolete.
I can direct you to the 82nd's SOP for how it has to be placed on the ruck, if you want. 
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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04-12-2006, 10:26
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by huntcg
While attached to a Patriot missile battery on D-Day '03, the ADA's first sergeant came over the net, as we were rolling through the berm into indian country, and instructed everyone to make sure NO one was locked and loaded, as he didn't want any negligent discharges. |
1990 Desert Shield 1991 Desert Storm
I was a SFC assigned to SOCCENT for a mission. Was at KKMC and KFIA and other places.... I was prepared for a war.
Nothing prepared me for amount of "self inflicted" gunshot wounds, negligent discharges etc I saw in the months leading up to the war..... I personally witnessed at least 10 maybe 20negligent discharges and most came from non-combatants such as support soldiers....... I was not amazed walking on the "highway of death" I was amazed by all the self inflicted wounds our troops commited......
Having to disarm a unit is ludicrous. I would relieve the commander and 1SGT for their inability to train and lead their troops........
TS
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"The Spartans do not ask how many are the enemy, but where they are."
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Team Sergeant is offline
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04-12-2006, 10:26
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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No thanks Sir, I'll pass.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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04-12-2006, 10:34
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,837
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Team Sergeant
1990 Desert Shield 1991 Desert Storm
I was a SFC assigned to SOCCENT for a mission. Was at KKMC and KFIA and other places.... I was prepared for a war.
Nothing prepared me for amount of "self inflicted" gunshot wounds, negligent discharges etc I saw in the months leading up to the war..... I personally witnessed at least 10 maybe 20negligent discharges and most came from non-combatants such as support soldiers....... I was not amazed walking on the "highway of death" I was amazed by all the self inflicted wounds our troops commited......
Having to disarm a unit is ludicrous. I would relieve the commander and 1SGT for their inability to train and lead their troops........
TS
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This is a direct result of hoplophobia in our society, the absolute discouragement kid's learning about firearms, and the "safety first", zero defect mentality that keeps soldiers from handling loaded weapons, except on the firing line.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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04-12-2006, 10:36
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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I agree TS.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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04-12-2006, 12:15
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#13
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Navarre, FL
Posts: 58
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TS and TR,
I agree with you 100%. It was a very sobering experience for me as a National Guard infantry soldier giving classes to the RA troops(Patriot personnel) on the care and use of not only their crew served weapons, but M-16's as well. It was this lack of training that manifested itself in the 507th Maintenance Company tragedy (they were the maintenance unit assigned to our ADA parent unit). I could write a book on the lunacy that we took part in while securing and hand-holding the Patriots through the desert to Baghdad.
Luckily, most of our senior NCO's had prior combat experience (to include one Vietnam Vet) and did not allow our unit to develop the bad habits that seemed to prevail in the ADA and maintenance units.
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huntcg is offline
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04-12-2006, 12:40
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#14
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 71
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Members of this board:
It is true. Reflective vests to be worn at all times. MPs writing tickets for not wearing them.. Dont park here....dont park there. The zero defect, safety concious nazis are out of control. Those fat bastards back in the rear are so busy licking ice cream cones and going to green bean that they worry about dumb shit that doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things.
When we go down there for opfunds and whatnot we just tell them "I don't know what you're talking about". We just keep a low profile or wear a combination of t-shirts, black fleece or a ball cap to look like KBR guys. After two or three days there we are ready to get out of there and be back at the FOB.
Sorry for the rant. It just sucks that in the Land of Dairy Queen and Burger King they get paid the same as those getting shot at and shittin in a wooden box.
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Lothar
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Lothar is offline
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04-12-2006, 12:57
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Old days
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lothar
Members of this board:
It is true. Reflective vests to be worn at all times.......
Sorry for the rant. It just sucks that in the Land of Dairy Queen and Burger King they get paid the same as those getting shot at and shittin in a wooden box.
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Guys;
I'm beginging to wonder if there are any NCOs in the Army anymore. A lot of rants about something going down but no "why" yet.
As a no time in grade SF SGM I loved to wander into the nearest CSM's office of the SOF or Conventional Unit we were dealing with/near/around/for whatever. A few little chats works wonders in cooperation and understanding. In other words, I got about 80% of what I wanted and the CSM though he got about 90% of what he wanted.
I'd warn my guys not to PO the CSM's toadies over nit-noy shit but I think most of them took that as a dare into just how far they could edge over the line. Oh well, time for another chat. They worked and I chatted.
Pete
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Pete is offline
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