Immigration going gold

03-08-2006, 08:59

I use to shy away from politics, but this pulls my butt hair real hard.

Star Telegram
Page removed as of November 2007. It stated that an immigration bill would create a "gold card" program for illegal immigrants who entered the United before the beginning of 2004, and create a guest worker program.

The article said that they would not contribute to the Social Security system, but would contribute through investment accounts. I think that is not a good idea, and think that most illegal immigrants may not have enough money to put in investment accounts. Another question if they want to, considering that it would not be mandatory.

The Stein Report
The Stein Report explains that the "Gold Card" discussed suggested that illegal aliens would be allowed to enter the US at will and at any job, but would be denied naturalization ability. "Gold Card" would be valid forever.

Guest work program? OK, if that is what the US people wants.

Rewarding illegal immigration? WTF?! Gee, and here I am sitting waiting for a greencard lottery to maybe select me, to have a chance to serve in the military. Why don't they list on the USCIS website that morals have nothing to do with it.

I feel like conquering a small island.

Martin

The Dave · 03-08-2006, 10:20

Allowing them to enter the US at will? Wow, somethings not quite right here.

Looks like if this went into effect, there'd be a few more people to pay medicall bills for in the good ol State of AZ (along with EVERY other).

tcharles · 03-08-2006, 22:12

Perhaps one reason Germany does not support war with any Islamic nation is that they rely on immigration from those nations. Why would such a populous nation require such immigration? It has become an entitlement nation. Perhaps they require immigration because not enough Germans are working.

It appears the same is happening here.

**The Reaper** · 03-08-2006, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcharles

Perhaps one reason Germany does not support war with any Islamic nation is that they rely on immigration from those nations. Why would such a populous nation require such immigration? It has become an entitlement nation. Perhaps they require immigration because not enough Germans are working.

It appears the same is happening here.

I think that you are making some flawed assumptions.

Think about it.

TR

tcharles · 03-09-2006, 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I think that you are making some flawed assumptions.

Think about it.

TR

I'm thinking........., sir.

tcharles · 03-09-2006, 08:24

After thinking and doing very little research on the theory here is what I came up with.

Social assistance is provided to persons who, for any of a number of reasons, are unable to provide themselves with a decent standard of living. In 1991 some 4.2 million persons received various forms of social assistance. In the same year, the most important reasons that people needed social assistance were unemployment (34 percent; social assistance is paid once unemployment pay runs out), pensions or incomes too small to allow their recipients a decent standard of living (11 and 7 percent, respectively), refusal of divorced fathers to pay child support (11 percent), and sickness (6 percent). Half of all recipients of social assistance are single elderly women. Foreigners residing in Germany also receive social assistance at a higher than average rate because they are more likely to be unemployed or earn low incomes.
http://countrystudies.us/germany/117.htm

The cost of the social budget for an average wage earner is difficult to assess. By the mid-1990s, however, a typical wage earner was estimated to pay about one-fifth of his or her income in direct taxes (only part of which went to the social budget) and another one-fifth for the compulsory social insurance programs. In addition, there were many indirect taxes, which accounted for about two-fifths of all tax revenue. The most important of the indirect taxes is the value-added tax (VAT--see Glossary), set in 1993 at 15 percent for most goods and at 7 percent for basic commodities each time it is assessed. Given Germany's demographic trends, the cost of the social budget is certain to increase in the coming decades.
http://countrystudies.us/germany/113.htm

Although no longer recruited abroad, Germany's foreign residents remain vital to the economy, parts of which would shut down if they were to depart. They also contribute to the country's welfare and social insurance programs by paying twice as much in taxes and insurance premiums as they receive in benefits. In the long term, their presence may be seen as vital because they have a positive birth rate. The birth rate among native Germans is so low that some studies have estimated that Germany will require approximately 200,000 immigrants a year to maintain its population into the next century and support its array of social welfare benefits.
http://countrystudies.us/germany/89.htm

As of early 1994, approximately 6.8 million registered foreigners resided in Germany. Turks made up the largest group (1.9 million)
http://countrystudies.us/germany/89.htm

For a preview, look at Germany. With low growth and extremely high unemployment, the German economy is in serious trouble. Germany's demographic deficit is one of the worst in Europe, and that, along with competition from other states in a globalized environment, is forcing the slow dismantling of Germany's elaborate welfare state. Unfortunately, Germany's attempt to peel back its growth-stifling system of unemployment insurance has so far failed to jump-start its economy. Liberal politicians have turned on businessmen as scapegoats for the country's economic woes, offering wild, quasi-Marxist denunciations of capitalism. What's worse, Germany's liberals are floating "anti-capitalist" economic reforms certain to drive away investment and deepen Germany's downward economic spiral. Many are comparing the rhetoric of Germany's new anti-capitalism campaign to the language of the Nazi era.
http://www.nationalreview.com/kurtz/...0505110745.asp

Based on these excerpts I have weakly supported my assumption. Unemployment is arguably the highest in Europe, Immigration is very high making up for low fertililty replacement rates as well as keeping parts of the economy alive and paying more into the system that native Germans, immigration is led by Islamic Turkey, working individuals are paying more in taxes now than ever, and lastly, they have an elaborate welfare state that appears to be continuing on a leftist/socialist path.

One could theorize that immigration that comes predominately from an Islamic nation and supports their troubled economy would compel them to temper their jingoistic tendencies.

What do you think, sir.

Very respectfully,

Charles

03-09-2006, 14:06

Not that you addressed me directly, tcharles, but here's another thought:

What natural resources do Islamic nations such as Iran, Sudan, Iraq, UAE, and a number of other countries that may or may not have good relations to Germany, have?

Oil.

Who recently signed a deal with Sudan?

Lundin Petroleum, Sweden.

Does Germany have a large muslim community from aforementioned oil producing countries?

Yes.

Did they have deals with Iraq?

Yes. (so did Volvo)

Do they have deals with Iran?

Yes.

Furthermore, I would say that the European mentality, institutional structure and various other issues mentioned elsewhere, along with a lack of imagination, adds up to an unwillingness or inability to address any situation. Status quo and pax Europae!

Btw, didn't a number of European countries let their arms industries trade with the Middle East? I could be mistaken, though.

Martin

Sten · 03-09-2006, 14:31

Immigrant labor rarely displaces white collar or high value jobs. The Immigrant labor pool tends to do the work nobody else wants or wants to do for the wage.

**The Reaper** · 03-09-2006, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcharles

Perhaps one reason Germany does not support war with any Islamic nation is that they rely on immigration from those nations. Why would such a populous nation require such immigration? It has become an entitlement nation. Perhaps they require immigration because not enough Germans are working.

It appears the same is happening here.

1. Who says that given the right circumstances, Germany would not support war with an Islamic nation? Germany is helping us in Afghanistan right now.

2. Germany already has a large immigrant population in country, and significant unemployment. Why do you think they need to rely upon additional immigration?

3. Populous nations desire immigration because the citizens deman a standard of living above what the more menial jobs will pay. Germany is still paying for the reabsorption of East Germany and all of its people (who were raised in a socialist state with government subsidized industries).

4. I would not necessarily call Germany an entitlement nation. Certainly, among European nations, they are bettert than most.

5. I think that a more thorough analysis would demonstrate that the employment rate for Germans is likely better than that for most immigrants there.

Other than that, your analysis is fine.

Now look at this:

Why would such a populous nation as the United States require such immigration? It has become an entitlement nation. Perhaps they require immigration because not enough Americans are working.

How does that sound?

TR

12B4S · 04-01-2006, 01:22

Even While I was in Germany, they had a large population of immigrants/ guest workers from different countries. I knew quite a few. Although they were for the most part looked down on, these folks were great. Maybe because, I was in Bavaria. But...... for one, they did not enter the country illegally.

Different story story her in AZ.....CA,TX and NM. These ppl are flowing over over the our southern border at some 5000 a day. This past week, these dumbass high school and middle school kids went out wandering, protesting clogging traffic, screwing up AMERICAN's lives.

I'll pick this up in a bit.

12B4S · 04-01-2006, 02:26

Ok I just typed for 15 minutes explaining what went down in Apache Junction here in AZ yesterday. A ROTC HS kid in jail for a day and all. But I keep getting dumped after a few minutes out here. Soooooo not gonna do it again. I'm all typed out and can't type that fast.

Bob1984 · 04-01-2006, 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin

Btw, didn't a number of European countries let their arms industries trade with the Middle East? I could be mistaken, though.

Martin

You're correct, they did. For example, Heckler & Koch, based in Germany, has sold manufacturing licenses and equipment to nations such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Mexico, to name a few.

**Team Sergeant** · 04-01-2006, 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12B4S

Ok I just typed for 15 minutes explaining what went down in Apache Junction here in AZ yesterday. A ROTC HS kid in jail for a day and all. But I keep getting dumped after a few minutes out here. Soooooo not gonna do it again. I'm all typed out and can't type that fast.

Brad, type in another software program and then "copy" and "paste" to the thread..... try using "Notepad" (Start button, All Programs, Accessories, Notepad)

jon448 · 04-01-2006, 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12B4S

Ok I just typed for 15 minutes explaining what went down in Apache Junction here in AZ yesterday. A ROTC HS kid in jail for a day and all. But I keep getting dumped after a few minutes out here. Soooooo not gonna do it again. I'm all typed out and can't type that fast.

Since he can't get it up, I found an article posted on Freerepublic.com talking about what happened.Although it doesn't mention anyone going to jail overnight.

jon448 · 04-01-2006, 09:19

Quote:

Tensions over immigration reform heightened in the Phoenix area's East Valley Thursday when students raised a Mexican flag over Apache Junction High School — and then other students yanked it down and burned it. "I know (they) shouldn't have burned the Mexican flag," said Jacob Stewart, a 16-year-old sophomore. "I heard it was raised above the American flag and that just irked me."

He said the turbulence was tied to debates going on in the state Legislature and Congress, where ideas ranging from offering illegal immigrants a chance at citizenship to making them felons are being floated.

Freshman Chelsea Garcia, 15, and junior Brittany Ramage, 16, said the unrest had more to do with long-running racial tensions at the school.

The week's events might have sparked some anger, Ramage said, "but kids aren't too deep about that stuff."

The Hispanic student who brought the Mexican flag said he was responding to a remark directed at him Wednesday. The flag-raising, flag-burning, and shoving match that followed happened before most students arrived at school.

Six students — three Hispanic and three white — will be disciplined, Principal Chad Wilson said.

Officials with the Apache Junction Unified School District would not specify what punishment the six face.

Wilson did say in a letter sent home to parents that there would be "increased supervision, including additional police officers, on the campus over the next couple of days."

School flagpoles have been lightning rods across the country this week, including an incident in which a Houston high-school principal was disciplined after he flew a Mexican flag underneath his campus' U.S. and state flags.

A new political awareness among students has also been grabbing attention, as thousands have walked out on classes to join rallies in Phoenix and elsewhere. More than 100 students from Mesa's Carson Junior High and Westwood High schools marched in protest on Mesa streets Tuesday.

All I have to say is good for that kid.