Fobbits - Page 2

CommoGeek · 04-05-2005, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

To interpret AR670-1 and correct those soldiers he feels is not strictly adhering to the "standard," from the security of the FOB, or so it would appear to this E-4.

Crip

That's the view from this side of the pond.

NousDefionsDoc · 04-05-2005, 19:42

This is interesting. Where is the line between acceptable deviations and non? Who decides?

No head gear on the way to the messhall if just off patrol? Who decides how long is "just off"? How do the powers that be know? Should they not care?

No boots bloused? Does anybody here know when and why the boot blousing thing came into being in the first place?

do-rags ok?

Where's the line? Or is there no line?

lksteve · 04-05-2005, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

This is interesting. Where is the line between acceptable deviations and non? Who decides?

i'm a left-handed non-conformist who runs with scissors...but NDD has a point...i'm no big fan of CSMs with nothing better to do than dream up area beautification schemes...but there have to be standards...in Somalia, we went to chow with flak vest, k-pot, LCE and rifle...in uniform...without exception...whether i just got back from the wrong side of town and had been sniped at the whole way...we wore our battle-rattle to chow or we ate MREs...

of course the mess hall in Mogoville wasn't very nice, so it's not like wearing our gear detracted from the ambiance...

Ghostrider · 04-08-2005, 17:58

Being in the round-out squadron for the 11th and now posted at NTC while they are in the real sandbox, I've seen first-hand some of the c.s. stuff they pull.

Alot of it stems from some issues that they (Regiment) has had with quality of soldiers that the recruiters have been sending. This in turn (imho) has required their leadership to institute greater levels of control that would be considered micro-management. I personally think alot of it is reactionary, but then again they are not my troopers.

I do know for a fact that even though my unit is "just the Guard", alot of the workers (MIL and CIV) here on post feel we've been doing everything better than the Regiment. I don't think that's because we're necessarily better....(well ok maybe a little

), but rather, in my case, my troopers are more mature, have more (arguably) "outside the military" life experiences, and can thus adapt faster with less guidance.

Now having said all that I agree w/NDD, where do they draw the line? Is it once the unit gets back "inside the wire", after the debrief/AAR, when they go to the chow hall? "Normal" military discipline still must be enforced...but then again normal has always had a different interpretation here at NTC.

Oh and btw, it's no longer pc for OPFOR to be called "Krasnovians", right now we are either AIF (Anti-Iraqi Forces...insurgents) or in the case of heavy rotations "Coronans". Hey don't ask me I just work here.

But I do think Fobbits is hilarious.

**Pete** · 04-08-2005, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peregrino

And then sacrilege - tucking their modified shirts into their pants because it makes sense.

Just my .02 - Peregrino

I have a team picture taken right before infil around 1977. Everybody on the team had their shirts tucked in. We rolled out of the back of a 130 doing a touch and go and didn't want anything catching on plane parts on our way out.

Bloused at the second eyelet on the boots? That's why I retired a SGM and didn't go for CSM. Better things to do with my time.

Pete

Ghostrider · 04-08-2005, 20:06

from AR 670-1 dated 5 Sept. 2003 (I'm almost positive there is a more recent version, but in this one here is the reg on blousing boots):

Chapter 3-6 c. ......... When bloused, the trousers should not extend below the third eyelet from the top of the boot.

As we like to say in my troop when the mindless sharpshooting like this occurs..."Sound Buffoonery!"

**Pete** · 04-08-2005, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostrider

As we like to say in my troop when the mindless sharpshooting like this occurs..."Sound Buffoonery!"

The trick to slinging regs back and forth is to be straight yourself. It is fun to square yourself away on all the sore points of the "big cheese" and lay back waiting for a prime chance for a little pay back. A very public "Ahhh, CSM, don't the FOB regs call for....?" is like a sharp knife in the back.

The more of a stuffed shirt they are the more fun it is to play. I was quite good at it in my day.

Pete

Ahh, the days of to wear or not to wear the lowly watch cap.

NousDefionsDoc · 04-08-2005, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

I have a team picture taken right before infil around 1977. Everybody on the team had their shirts tucked in. We rolled out of the back of a 130 doing a touch and go and didn't want anything catching on plane parts on our way out.

Bloused at the second eyelet on the boots? That's why I retired a SGM and didn't go for CSM. Better things to do with my time.

Pete

I'd love to see your picture if you're willing to post it.

**Pete** · 04-10-2005, 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by lksteve

i'm a left-handed non-conformist who runs with scissors...but NDD has a point...i'm no big fan of CSMs with nothing better to do than dream up area beautification schemes...but there have to be standards...

I'm not picking on you lksteve but rolling all the thoughts together plus adding a few of my own.

CSMs take a lot of heat for what they put out and enforce but I'd like to point out the relationship between the unit CO and the CSM. The CSM does nothing without the blessing of the CO. While the CO and CSM might have a drop down drag out fight behind closed doors, they present a unified front once the rest of the staff comes in for a meeting.

If the CSM is a real nut cracker and the CO is worth his salt he'll say "Hey CSM, the boys are getting a little tight, you need to ease up a bit." It also works the other way around.

I've found with 1SGs, Sergeants Major, Command Sergeants Major and Commanders that the biggest dick heads were also the ones most insecure in they positions and authority. If the command element is too uptight the troops well be also.

The troops I worked with would poke fun at me now and again and I took it in stride. I knew that every time I told them to hit the bricks they did and at a dead run. I also had the pleasure of working with two fine company commanders who thought just about the same way I did.

Police call, grass cutting and other stuff like that? If there is no contracted labor to do that then somebody has to. Now if I was a CSM over there then I think I'd have the Fobbits doing most of that stuff.

Just another 2 cents from me.

Pete

lksteve · 04-10-2005, 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

I'm not picking on you lksteve but rolling all the thoughts together plus adding a few of my own.

CSMs take a lot of heat for what they put out and enforce but I'd like to point out the relationship between the unit CO and the CSM. The CSM does nothing without the blessing of the CO. While the CO and CSM might have a drop down drag out fight behind closed doors, they present a unified front once the rest of the staff comes in for a meeting.

true...some COs are a bit reluctant to confront a 1SG/SGM/CSM...some are more than willing to frustrate the NCO...some NCOs are more than willing to blow off the old man (not many), some are toadies...in my experience, most commanders want their right hand man to have a good deal of room to manuver...as a commander, i was perfectly willing to let the team sergeant/1SG handle the routine stuff while i spent time getting my ass chewed for my endearing personality and the fact that NCOs were running my unit (it used to happen nearly daily throughout my career)...it's not like i necessarily agreed with everything my right-hand man did, (although the argument could be made that i tacitly approved) but a little friction in that situation is a good thing, for the most part...

hell, pick on me if you have to...

NousDefionsDoc · 04-10-2005, 09:27

Quote:

The CSM does nothing without the blessing of the CO.

Uh, ok.

Seriously, good points on both sides. In addition to what you guys said, I think part of it is they don't really know what to do, so they revert back to what they had success with last. Hence my question about the role of the CSM in combat.

What is he supposed to be doing?

**Pete** · 04-10-2005, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

Hence my question about the role of the CSM in combat.

What is he supposed to be doing?

The CSMs role in Combat? None.

That said his role should be, as the eyes and ears of the commander, special staff kinda' guy and all that, the head ass kicker in the FOB making sure all troops are taken care of and have what they need to do the job.

The CSM has the ability and power to cruise all areas of the command area and see whats going on. He talks to everyone he runs into and gets their take on things. Based on his experience he can throw out the nitpicking BS and focus on what is important to a well running unit.

He should stand as an example of what all the troops wish to become as they rise in rank.

And also all that leadership stuff in the book.

By doing the above he is able to handle the the house keeping and standards for his command with little grumbling from the ranks.

The relasionship between commanders and the senior NCO can have a big impact on a unit. Two good ones together make for a great unit. One bad/one good can keep a unit running. Having two bad ones is like a tooth extraction.

I think I'm up to a quarter now.

Pete.

NousDefionsDoc · 04-10-2005, 10:57

Thanks Pete.

Any others have any thoughts?

Trip_Wire (RIP) · 04-10-2005, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

The CSMs role in Combat? None.

That said his role should be, as the eyes and ears of the commander, special staff kinda' guy and all that, the head ass kicker in the FOB making sure all troops are taken care of and have what they need to do the job.

The CSM has the ability and power to cruise all areas of the command area and see whats going on. He talks to everyone he runs into and gets their take on things. Based on his experience he can throw out the nitpicking BS and focus on what is important to a well running unit.

He should stand as an example of what all the troops wish to become as they rise in rank.

And also all that leadership stuff in the book.

By doing the above he is able to handle the the house keeping and standards for his command with little grumbling from the ranks.

The relasionship between commanders and the senior NCO can have a big impact on a unit. Two good ones together make for a great unit. One bad/one good can keep a unit running. Having two bad ones is like a tooth extraction.

I think I'm up to a quarter now.

Pete.

I don't think that I can say it any better then Pete has said it here and other posts.

BTW: We didn't have CSMs in the Korean War

lksteve · 04-10-2005, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

He should stand as an example of what all the troops wish to become as they rise in rank.

I think I'm up to a quarter now.

that rings true, regardless of rank...i think part of the rub is that he is the CSM of another unit, responsible for the FOB, while the young troops he's been correcting are of a different unit. the 11th ACR are the new guys in town, the Strykers have ground time...while the troops in his unit probably have respect for him from working with him, his referrent authority level is probably weak in the other unit...such is life...

i think you went past a quarter a long time ago....