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Old 01-08-2008, 09:35   #136
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Originally Posted by The Reaper View Post
Errors, mistakes, lies, and bad grammar, all from an "impartial" former employee.TR

a_gunguy is vewy, vewy stwange. I tink his spell/grammar checker has infected my compooter.
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:51   #137
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We had a good turn out for our SFA Chapter meeting tonight. A number of AD guys, and a number who have been doing contracting work. After the meeting proper, I brought up the issue of DragonSkin to see if anyone had any input.

Got some interesting replies.

A number of guys knew about it. Some knew people who had bought it and worn it in combat zones... but not for very long. I was told that the crap ended up hanging on hooks in Team rooms because it was heavy (I was told by two different people that the marketing was deceptive and it had been purchased because it was supposed to be light. It isn't), because it deteriorated (don't know if this is related to temperature, one person thought it was because of the scales rubbing against each other) and because it just didn't work.

And none of them were interested in going to war with Level III protection. They wanted Level IV. 7.62x63 AP at the muzzle? That struck them as a pretty good standard.

Nothing scientific about this. Just asking people who had seen the stuff and had some experience with it their opinion.

What's striking? That opinion consistently agrees with the Army's tests.

Maybe the Army does know what it's doing?

Oh, and before I'm accused of being involved in IBA development, I'm what we call a Fucking Old Guy. The only body armor I have EVER worn was the Vietnam-era flak vest when doing riot control training..

Last edited by brownapple; 01-08-2008 at 10:14.
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Old 01-08-2008, 14:28   #138
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"I have a stalker..."

#

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Old 01-08-2008, 15:28   #139
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Calif. body armor maker sues feds

If you make crap body armor, have it tested, then whine and call people names when it fails you should expect to lose your business.

Banned by the Armed Forces of the United States of America, decertified by the NIJ.....

Looks like a last ditch effort before dragon skin becomes extinct.

OK all you wacko blogs time to rally the your wacko followers!

Defensereview.com I don't see any new news articles concerning the mighty dragon skin?



Calif. body armor maker sues feds

Fresno company says decertification cost it millions in contracts.

By Sanford Nax,
The Fresno Bee

FRESNO, Calif. — Officials at Pinnacle Armor, saying their business is on the verge of financial ruin, are suing the federal government for removing their bullet-proof vests from a list of approved body armor.

The Fresno company says it lost millions of dollars worth of contracts after the National Institute of Justice in August decertified its Dragon Skin body armor, claiming the company couldn't prove its declared six-year warranty.

"This has been utterly devastating to the financial solvency of Pinnacle," the lawsuit says.

The company estimates it has lost about $2.3 million this year, and has reduced the number of employees from 49 to 32. "We've made major cuts," said Murray Neal, chief executive.

Pinnacle is not asking for monetary damages but is seeking an emergency hearing before a judge in hopes of getting the decertification overturned, said Layne Hayden, the company's Fresno lawyer.

http://www.policeone.com/police-prod...icles/1636990/
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Old 01-09-2008, 04:00   #140
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Looks like another Blogger has written about dragonskin. I think I would be more willing to listen to this one then "a-gunguy".

Michael Yon




Edited to add: Looks like A-GunGuy added his two cents and commented on Mr. Yon's blog:

"66.
a.gunguy Says:
As you know you were TOLD that the DS is heavier than the IBA when you bought it! It is the tradeoff for giving 120% better coverage. Suck up to the army so that they keep giving you the “sweatheart deal” you so prize!!

January 8th, 2008 at 7:16 pm "
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Old 01-09-2008, 22:32   #141
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jwt5, thats a great avatar.
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Old 01-16-2008, 15:18   #142
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DRAGON SKIN BODY Armor for sale!!!!

Now I'm laughing my ass off.

Someone contact Michael Yon and tell him about ProfessionalSoldiers.com

Edit to add, We may have had a hand in Michael Yon's decision to sell his boady armor, someone posted this threads URL on Michael Yon's website a few weeks ago......


Team Sergeant

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/...ragon-skin.htm

http://cgi.ebay.com/Michael-Yons-Dra...QQcmdZViewItem
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Old 01-16-2008, 19:31   #143
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Originally Posted by dmgedgoods View Post
ROFL

http://a-gunguy.livejournal.com/

You must have really pissed this guy off. As an impartial former employee, you'd think he might be civil.

This is fine entertainment.

Shawn
I've learned to take anything written on LiveJournal with a hefty dose of skepticism, BS seems to flow quite freely there.

As far as Pinnacle is concerned, if they really do recruit twits like this guy, I think I'll purchase my protection elsewhere.
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Old 02-17-2008, 12:56   #144
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http://www.ksee24.com/news/local/15685157.html

By Preston Phillips
Watch the story
According to Pinnacle Armor's CEO, Murray Neal, an unknown number of people could be facing some very serious charges in the weeks to come.

He still insists: "Dragon Skin" is the best protection on the market...

Pinnacle Armor CEO and President, Murray Neal: "If I get a fair day at the range, next to any body armor in the world, Dragon skin will beat it hands down."

Murray Neal claims that to this day, his body armor, better known as "Dragon Skin," has never received the fair shot, he says it deserves.

Neal: "We tested with the Army, the Army last time said we’re not gonna give you any written data, so it’s going to be my word against your word… and then they say… we failed.”

But according to Neal, a piece of armor from the same purchase order, tested by U.S. Army that allegedly failed back in May of 2006, recently surfaced on the internet, from someone attempting to sell it on Ebay.

Neal: "If that armor failed catastrophically, you wanna make sure you’ve got good control of that. Not only would you have good control of it, because they knew I was gonna come back and re-test"

Neal says his company sent 30, SOV-3000, level IV protection vests, to H.P. White Laboratory in Maryland for the U.S. Army's testing, back in May of 06'.

He says the U.S. Army told him the vest for sale on Ebay wasn't one of the vests used… and said it had a manufacture date of June 12th, 2006...

But Neal says the pictures posted on Ebay, and the purchase order signed back in May of 06’ tell a different story.

Neal: "We used a dark chocolate brown, which we don’t sell, so “A”… its kind of a give away.”

Not to mention the fact that the serial numbers from the pictures on the website also match up to the ones listed on the invoice.

According to Neal, Karl Masters, the individual who signed for the purchase order, was also to maintain full control of the vests listed on the invoice.

When we spoke with Masters today, he told us that he could not speak on the issue because it was under investigation.

But by whom?

The U.S. Army spoke with us by phone from The Pentagon today.

Lieutenant Colonel Martin Downie said he knew nothing about an investigation.

Downie: "I’m saying that right now, the U.S. Army right now is not aware of any investigation regarding these claims.”

But according to retired Lieutenant Colonel, Roger Charles, who has been studying "Dragon Skin” for years: The Department of Homeland Security is the one heading up this multi-pronged federal investigation, and currently questioning the individual who put it up for sale.

Charles says: The U.S. Army has a lot of explaining to do.

Charles: "There's gonna have to be some external federal law enforcement agency investigate and see what happened to the custody, and how did this government owned item end up being for sale on Ebay.”

Downie: "As far as the information we have, our internal investigative body, criminal investigation division, we don’t have any information that validates these claims.”

Downie later called us back to say he came across several pages on the internet that made allegations toward federal entities... And said The U.S. Army would begin looking into this matter immediately.

The U.S. Army even attempted to contact masters today, to find out why he was being investigated, but were not able to get an answer.

Phillips: did you call Karl Masters today?

Downie: “I did.”

Phillips: And what happened when you called him?

Downie: “I answered his voice mail and I left him a message for him to call me immediately."

One week prior to this attempted sale on e-bay, another piece of "Dragon Skin" body armor, purchased by the U.S. Army's Criminal Investigations Division (CID) in March of 2005, also surfaced on Ebay.

Both pages have since removed by the online marketplace, and according to Neal, all items have been confiscated.

If someone is found to be at fault, they could be looking at years in federal prison and could face felony charges for both, grand larceny, and the loss of sensitive restricted technology items during a time of war.

Click on link to view Preston Phillips’ report.
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Old 02-17-2008, 13:35   #145
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Saw this yesterday. Seems a little strange to me that a Fresno (same location as Pinnacle) news station is the only source I can find for this story. What's Murray up to now?
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Old 02-17-2008, 13:41   #146
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Sounds like a desperate attempt by Murray Neal to shift the focus of Pinnacle Armor’s Dragon Skin body armor FAILURE and its subsequent BANNING by the US ARMY, US NAVY, US MARINES & the US AIR FORCE.

I’m sure Murray Neal would say just about anything at this point in time thinking maybe there’s a few LE agencies that have not heard/read of the BANNING of Pinnacle Armor “Dragon Skin” by the entire US Military.

Don’t worry Neal, those ultra left wing blogs and defensereview.com are behind you 100% if they can’t pull Dragon Skin back into the US Military no one can……

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Old 02-17-2008, 14:10   #147
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But according to Neal, a piece of armor from the same purchase order, tested by U.S. Army that allegedly failed back in May of 2006, recently surfaced on the internet, from someone attempting to sell it on Ebay.
This has no bearing on whether Dragon Skin passed or failed. If anything, it's about a product purchased by the government being sold in a manner not authorized by procedures (if that is the case, but there isn't any credible information pointing that way). If the government decided to get rid of the vests it purchased from Dragon Skin, ensuring tax payers got some cost compensation back for it, it has every right to do so. The government routinely scraps product it purchased from private corporations in the marketplace for various reasons.
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Old 02-17-2008, 14:57   #148
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On another note. If they were scrapped or destroyed, the SN's, lot #'s, Manuf date etc are all hand written on the panels. It would be very easy to jsut enter whatever info desired on a blank set.
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Old 02-19-2008, 21:15   #149
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As a casual observance/side note, Pinnacle was NOT at SHOT Show this year!!
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Old 03-24-2008, 16:22   #150
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They were, however, just on the National Geographic Channel - "Police Tech: Catching a Crook".

I came home to the tail end of and just caught the word Dragonskin and saw Murray et al. Can't provide any information about the show content, claims, or exact purpose. I wish I knew the Police Department.

Perhaps an e-mail or call to the NGC is in order to promote awareness and possibly save lives? I believe they would take a Service Member / Quiet Professional more seriously and the situation would reach a quicker resolution than for a DEP to contact them.

National Geographic Channel : Tell us what you think of the National Geographic Channel. - comments@natgeochannel.com

Public Relations Send press inquiries here. pressroom@ngs.org

National Geographic Channel/Information or Inquiries +1 202 857 7000

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