View Full Version : A Better Definition of WMD
I was watching the POTUS address the UN this morning and he mentioned "Weapons of Mass Murder".
I am so glad he got away from the term "Mass Destruction". I never thought that the term was appropriate. The more insidious weapons are chemical and biological which kill without destroying structures or equipment. I always thought that "WMD" were better defined as "Weapons of Mass Death".
I hope it sticks.
Another interesting thing he mentioned was that more than 150 nations have sent aid to the Katrina AO. That's considerably more than the conservative media reported.
Airbornelawyer
09-14-2005, 12:44
I was watching the POTUS address the UN this morning and he mentioned "Weapons of Mass Murder".
I am so glad he got away from the term "Mass Destruction". I never thought that the term was appropriate. The more insidious weapons are chemical and biological which kill without destroying structures or equipment. I always thought that "WMD" were better defined as "Weapons of Mass Death".
I hope it sticks.
Another interesting thing he mentioned was that more than 150 nations have sent aid to the Katrina AO. That's considerably more than the conservative media reported.
He used both terms:And the world's free nations are determined to stop the terrorists and their allies from acquiring the terrible weapons that would allow them to kill on a scale equal to their hatred. For that reason, more than 60 countries are supporting the Proliferation Security Initiative to intercept shipments of weapons of mass destruction on land, on sea, and in air. The terrorists must know that wherever they go, they cannot escape justice. We must send a clear message to the rulers of outlaw regimes that sponsor terror and pursue weapons of mass murder: You will not be allowed to threaten the peace and stability of the world. and from his remarks to the Security Council: Each of us must act, consistent with past Security Council resolutions, to freeze terrorists' assets; to deny terrorists freedom of movement by using effective border controls and secure travel documents; to prevent terrorists from acquiring weapons, including weapons of mass destruction.
By the way, according to the transcript it was 115 countries, not 150.
And may I ask why the qualifier "conservative"? Have you seen any media report on international support with any great detail? Some reporters treated the arrival of Mexican forces as a cute human interest story ("first Mexican troops on US soil since the Mexican-American War"), but I don't see many news reports on the Dutch frigate that was operating off the Louisiana coast, the French navy EOD divers, the Luftwaffe flights bringing in German MREs ("Mmm, liverwurst!"), etc.
WMD always gets my attention.
Tough sonofabitches to find. Congress and the President have done a very poor job finding them so far.
So we "know" there is a great probability that WMD are on our soil, and that our borders are promoting the transportation of these weapons.
What the hell has the President done to make me safer in regards to WMD being transported here???
What has Congress done???
The Reaper
09-14-2005, 23:14
WMD always gets my attention.
Tough sonofabitches to find. Congress and the President have done a very poor job finding them so far.
So we "know" there is a great probability that WMD are on our soil, and that our borders are promoting the transportation of these weapons.
What the hell has the President done to make me safer in regards to WMD being transported here???
What has Congress done???
Funny, I have not seen any WMDs employed here in the US since the POTUS took office. Did I miss something?
Do you have any idea what a monumental task this is?
Are you privy to everything that the POTUS has done?
I think that you are way out of line on this.
TR
Sigi and all: This is a huge country with vast resources. Everything needed to produce vastly destructive weapons are readily available as well as the expertise to produce them. There is no need to import them. I would think that the OC and the first WTC bombing would have brought that home. Material needed for a dirty bomb is also available. Hopefully things have changed but low grade nuclear material used in the medical field was poorly secured the last I heard.
At most, only experts in the field need to be imported and even that isn't necessary.
If you have a good method of securing 5000 miles of land borders and a like amount of coastline please publish it.
As SFRadionman's signature says: criticism is only constructive if a solution is offered.
QUOTE=Sigi]WMD always gets my attention.
Tough sonofabitches to find. Congress and the President have done a very poor job finding them so far.
So we "know" there is a great probability that WMD are on our soil, and that our borders are promoting the transportation of these weapons.
What the hell has the President done to make me safer in regards to WMD being transported here???
What has Congress done???[/QUOTE]
WMD's are supposed to do just that - get your attention. Some federal agencies have lived since 911 off the fear and prospect of a "WMD" being deployed here in the US. All you here about is the threat of sarin, VX, GB etc being utilized. In my opinion, causing angst, anxiety, and panic within a population are huge victorys within themselves.
But OK, tell me the difference between a tanker of chlorine flipping over on a major Interstate and the same tanker being initiated by an IED on the Interstate. The answer is nothing is different, they are both treated first and formost for what they are, a haz-mat incident, and remain so until under control. And just as haz mats that occur every day, this will be handled by competent -professional fire fighters and law enforcement. The post balst, ensuing investigation and mass media attention will be the only thing that seperates both these incidents.
Tell me how many times have you've heard about an anthrax or a botulism scare here in the US? Again, panic and hand wringing abound and the media is johnny on the spot with concern for those who could be affected. Serious issues no doubt, but what is the catalyst for the scare, why the immediate response by local, state, & federal agencies, how long is the incubation period for each?
A true attack with a bio will be found by only one source - the medical profession. Yet, have you taken the time and wondered aloud to yourself.... Hey, how did the medical profession detect, and jump on SARS and Monkeypox sooooo fast, its as if they were monitoring on a National level for some strange diseases... nawww probably just got lucky.
WMD's transported here? transported here?? Everything needed for a true WMD is located in your local hardware store ! Follow the current trends - you know Madrid, London, Chechnya, Iraq etc..... The only thing transported here on a regular basis is the ideology (and your intended politically correct appeasment) of those that intend your death. (HINT - Sometimes called the religion of peace - rhymes with bilsam) Again, if your looking for the bomb (or WMD) you will find it - during the consequence manegement phase of your clean up operation. The key here is to remain proactive an focused on what the true threat is - the bombers (or like ilk).
So if I may..... stop regurgitating the sniveling battle cry of those potted plants who fail to educate themselves on just who you are at war with, scheech " what is the President doing", and propagate every gloom and doom scenario imaginable. Instead, I humbly suggest you emulate your "Fighting Iish" avatar and get involved.
Failing the latter option, I would be happy to pay for someone to water you twice a day, along with all the others on my list.
WMD always gets my attention.
Tough sonofabitches to find. Congress and the President have done a very poor job finding them so far.
So we "know" there is a great probability that WMD are on our soil, and that our borders are promoting the transportation of these weapons.
What the hell has the President done to make me safer in regards to WMD being transported here???
What has Congress done???
What have you done for your country?
I was watching the POTUS address the UN this morning and he mentioned "Weapons of Mass Murder".
I am so glad he got away from the term "Mass Destruction". I never thought that the term was appropriate. The more insidious weapons are chemical and biological which kill without destroying structures or equipment. I always thought that "WMD" were better defined as "Weapons of Mass Death".
I hope it sticks.
I'm partial to the term Weapons of Mass Casualties for BW. I think BW typically gets a smaller budget than Nuclear.. maybe thats why it dosn't get its own terminology. I could be wrong.
an interesting read is the State Department's 2005 Adherence to and Compliance with Arms Control, Nonproliferation, and Disarmament Agreements and Commitments (http://www.state.gov/t/vc/rls/rpt/51977.htm)
regarding readiness, the below may be of interest
Project BioShield Act of 2004 (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/useftp.cgi?IPaddress=162.140.64.21&filename=s15enr.txt&directory=/diskb/wais/data/108_cong_bills)
President's Initiative on Countering Bioterrorism (http://www.fda.gov/cber/cntrbio/cntrbio.htm)
Just curious:
We know what our enemy looks like, what age range they fall into, their religion, what countries they come from, what groups they belong to, etc.
Would it be a good idea to restrict all visas to the U.S. from these countries? Would it be a good idea to round up everyone here on a visa fitting that profile and deport them? If innocent people are effected, too bad.
the 9-11 terrorists were here on visas.
Oh wait - if they had been deported, 9-11 wouldn't have happened right???
Not really sure what a 25 yr old graduate student or a 40 yr old chemist who are both Muslim and hate the U.S. contribute to our society...
Guess we should just wait and see if they "set something off" right??? Wouldn't want to trample on anyone's "rights," after all.
Have they ever found a 70 yr old grandma with a shoeful of C4 at the
airport yet???
Just curious:
We know what our enemy looks like, what age range they fall into, their religion, what countries they come from, what groups they belong to, etc.
Would it be a good idea to restrict all visas to the U.S. from these countries? Would it be a good idea to round up everyone here on a visa fitting that profile and deport them? If innocent people are effected, too bad.
the 9-11 terrorists were here on visas.
Oh wait - if they had been deported, 9-11 wouldn't have happened right???
Not really sure what a 25 yr old graduate student or a 40 yr old chemist who are both Muslim and hate the U.S. contribute to our society...
Guess we should just wait and see if they "set something off" right??? Wouldn't want to trample on anyone's "rights," after all.
Have they ever found a 70 yr old grandma with a shoeful of C4 at the
airport yet???
WOW where to start?
Our enemies are those who want to bring down what this country stands for. They come in all shapes and colors. Some come from abroad and some are born and raised right here in the U.S.
"Liberty and justice for all" is one of those principles.
Sadahm had a real stable regime. Is that what you want.
I'm sorry but to turn your signature: The ends don't justify the means. :mad:
Just curious:
We know what our enemy looks like, what age range they fall into, their religion, what countries they come from, what groups they belong to, etc.
Looking for only 23 year old middle eastern men here in the US is fighting the last war, and will get you zapped again.
In late 2004 who blew up 2 airliners in Russia, a subway stop, and fought at Belsan, all within a few weeks of each other. Answer - chechen white females (two with dyed blonde hair)
Germaine Lindsay - Jamacian born black London bomber
Paul Holland (aka Jack Roche) Australian 40+ white male and al queda member captured during preoperational homicide bomber planning set to strike Israeli Embassy and Consulate in Aussieland
Wafa Samir Ibrahim al bass - deformed palestinian female who had passed thru the Erez checkpoint multiple times for treatment of her burns, attempted to pass thru said checkpoint to use an underwear bomb to blow up the same hospital
Read about the homegrown black converts in LA within the past few weeks and why they were doing stickups for allah.........
In my opinion, immigration is one of the keys to jihad, but overlooking them that are here already is a huge mistake.
Remember, a spectacular attack = spectacular media attention and support of like ilk.
WOW where to start?
Our enemies are those who want to bring down what this country stands for. They come in all shapes and colors. Some come from abroad and some are born and raised right here in the U.S.
"Liberty and justice for all" is one of those principles.
Sadahm had a real stable regime. Is that what you want.
I'm sorry but to turn your signature: The ends don't justify the means. :mad:
I agree with you wholly Terry
There are those that have been on the violent overthrow of the US kick long before the Islamic Radicals have been.
But in more recent times it seems we have our own brand of islamic jihadist that is a homegrown threat with citizenship rights by birth.
http://www.fbi.gov/terrorinfo/gadahn.htm
How would you treat the 100's or 1000's of Adam's that have a birthright that have yet to provide their brand of disliking for the US?
As far as the 70 year old grandma with C4 in the shoe. Never underestimate an angry persons capabilities or intent. She may have a bad day and lose it and decide to take as many with her as possible. And she may be a Christian, Baptist, Jewish, or Atheist. It can happen.
For the sake of sanity try not to generalize on the intent of a few as the view of the masses.
rubberneck
09-16-2005, 08:59
Just curious:
We know what our enemy looks like, what age range they fall into, their religion, what countries they come from, what groups they belong to, etc.
Where exactly in your threat matrix would the likes of John Wlaker Lindh, Richard Reid and Jose Padillia fallen? How can one know for sure if a person is Muslim if that person choses to dress and act in a western manner especially if they aren't of middle eastern descent?
What do we do in the case of female terrorists or children? It's not like Hamas has never used either to kill.
While banning all middle eastern men between the ages of 18-50 might make you feel better it won't make any difference. Just consider how easy it is to enter the country illegally from Mexico and Canada and just how easy it is for a terrorist to enter either country. Your plan seems an aweful lot like whistling as you walk past a graveyard.
So far, deformed Palestinian women, Chechen white females (two with dyed blonde hair) 40 y.o. Aussies, black Jamacans, etc., have NOT murdered Americans in terrorist acts on our own soil. Living in the L. A. area, I'm familiar with the black Muslim thing too.
Oh yeah, what about Adam Pearlman/Gadahn??? He's the guy who converted to Islam in a Garden Grove mosque (7 miles from my house). He's the jackass on the latest Al Qaeda video saying "the streets of America will run red with blood."
http://www.fbi.gov/terrorinfo/gadahn.htm
More mosques anyone???
If your religion preaches death and violence, your "religion" is not valid and is nothing more than a street gang. Funny, all gangsters and Muslims talk about is wanting "respect," yet they do nothing to earn it, since they are too busy causing fear and panic in people's everyday lives from the violence.
John Walker Lindh, Richard Reid and Jose Padillia are all what sex, age, and religion??? Let's see: They are Muslim, male, and between 20 and 40.
The isolated examples you guys are talking about just prove my point further. You can lay down and "take it" or you can be proactive. I prefer to be "proactive."
Anybody see any commonalities???
What about Americans killing Americans?
Those guys out in the middle of the forest aren't just pretending to fight the US government and the Jews you know. They're Christian fundys BTW.
If you focus on one particular group of people, those people will get wise and use people from another group. Then you're fucked.
What about Americans killing Americans?
Those guys out in the middle of the forest aren't just pretending to fight the US government and the Jews you know. They're Christian fundys BTW.
If you focus on one particular group of people, those people will get wise and use people from another group. Then you're fucked.
^^^WTF over???
If the "face" of terrorism changes, there will still be one common tie - Islam.
Keep me posted if any changes occur...
Terrorism isn't the bastion of only Islam. They might be the highest profile right now, but they're not the sole users of it.
What have you done for your country?
I am just an average man. I ain't proud to admit it, but I ain't afraid to either. I am who I am - nothing more.
I certainly don't try to be something I am not.
Knock me because I never served? That is your perogative and this is your site.
Plenty of people who contribute to this board never served.
What have I done for this country? My utmost to keep the economy running, which is all I can do at this point, no matter how small my contribution.
So if I may..... stop regurgitating the sniveling battle cry of those potted plants who fail to educate themselves on just who you are at war with, scheech " what is the President doing", and propagate every gloom and doom scenario imaginable. Instead, I humbly suggest you emulate your "Fighting Iish" avatar and get involved.
Failing the latter option, I would be happy to pay for someone to water you twice a day, along with all the others on my list.
First off I do not read potted plant liberal papers, books or blogs.
I lost confidence in the POTUS because of his administration's response to Katrina. The border is porous. I see it everyday in Nevada.
Sue me for my opinion. Just because you are smarter doesn't mean I am without reason for my concern about protecting our borders. WMD's coming through the border is a tall order???
How big do these things need to be? Hell if you can build them here, all you need is the BIO/CHEM weapons to make it across the border.
Not so hard when you consider the Los Zatas gang and the border region they have influenced.
The subject line of this thread has been buried under a pile of camel shit so I will sign off after having my last say.
A couple of you truly disgust me. Twenty years ago you would be screaming to ship all blacks back to Africa. What you propose is not the country I would choose to love and cherish. I have been around the world and seen all kinds of people and can honestly say the majority are good people.
Those who choose to be anti-american should be dealt with. To discriminate merely on the bases of appearance is juvenile. I have asked this question many times and still havan't received an answer yet. Is there one solitary person in this world who can say he chose his place of birth, race and parents?
What some propose is a return to the gestapo and/or NKVD. If that is what you want I feel sorry for you. The dictators of this world gave total safety to their people at the cost of freedom. I prefer freedom with risk.
Another hypothetical question-- If we exclude what has become the largest segment of the population of the world from our borders who will run the hotels, drive the taxis, man the hospitals and, in general, keep the economy at its present level. If you haven't noticed, the service industries in this country are run by people of Middle Eastern descent. We'll throw Indians in there since I doubt you can tell the difference. If we exclude people we also exclude their trade. We will wilt on the vine and at the least, cease to be the most prosperous country in the world.
I accept the freedom of risks.
As for the faces of our enemies you might put pictures o the likes of John Kerry, Jane Fonda and Michael Moore up!!!
I would label the above as socialists and they socialism is as real an enemy as Islam. Communism isn't dead, it is just resting and recouping while we fight the Ismamics and Islamics did while we battled communism.
I am not perhaps as eloquent as most but that's my rant for the day.
Terry, I'm with you.
Detcord, check out the photo below. How much harm did this 20-40 y.o. Iraqi-American Marine mean to you when he got his arm nearly blown off?
Your attitude sucks. :mad:
rubberneck
09-17-2005, 07:21
John Walker Lindh, Richard Reid and Jose Padillia are all what sex, age, and religion??? Let's see: They are Muslim, male, and between 20 and 40.
Oh give me a break. If John Walker Lindh, Richard Reid or Jose Padillia were standing infront of you and you hadn't seen their picture in the paper you would have no clue that they were muslin or that they were terrorists. Two of the three were citizens of the United States just exactly how are you going to bar two citizens from entering the country?
jatx/rubberneck,
They will fail to acknowledge a solution to this because they enjoy being part of the problem.
Thanks for your coherent contributions. :lifter
I am just an average man. I ain't proud to admit it, but I ain't afraid to either. I am who I am - nothing more.
I certainly don't try to be something I am not.
Knock me because I never served? That is your perogative and this is your site.
Plenty of people who contribute to this board never served.
What have I done for this country? My utmost to keep the economy running, which is all I can do at this point, no matter how small my contribution.
You came on this thread blaming the POTUS and Congress for problems. I wanted to see what your game plan was and/or is to assist in rectifying the situation.
I did not ask if you served in the military or if you are a man or not. I simply asked, "What have you done for your country?" Finally in the last paragraph of your response you answered stating that you work and pay taxes.
Typical liberal diatribe. Blame Bush for everything hoping some of it will stick. In return you offer nothing of substance outside of your comfort zone to assist. I believe that most liberals intentionally drag their feet or outright combat the forces in this country that are attempting to effect positive change just so they can see a Republican President fail. They don't care if that means we; 1. Lose the current war in Iraq or 2. Endanger the survival of the hurricane Katrina victims if it gives them something to hang over conservative's heads for the next 5-10 years. Have you ever stopped to think of the damage that liberals cause by acting this way? These type of people empower the enemy on the battlefield to continue their fight and cause extreme division in this country by making comments, "Bush doesn't like poor people so he dragged his feet on relief efforts." :rolleyes:
The POTUS has already gave a leader's response saying as the Commander he accepts what went wrong with with the hurricane Katrina relief effort and wants an inquiry to investigate the situation so that mistakes won't be repeated. Still no word from Gov Blanco or Mayor Nagin on their conduct as leaders in a crisis. There's plenty of blame to go around with this situation. It appears that Bush is the only one stepping up to the plate at this point.
As far as WMDs and the surveilance of said objects goes, the public doesn't know the half of what's going on. Operational Security measures are in effect and the government is not giving out the play book so that the enemy can change it's game plan.
To quote a Democrat, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
First off I do not read potted plant liberal papers, books or blogs.
I lost confidence in the POTUS because of his administration's response to Katrina. The border is porous. I see it everyday in Nevada.
Sue me for my opinion. Just because you are smarter doesn't mean I am without reason for my concern about protecting our borders. WMD's coming through the border is a tall order???
How big do these things need to be? Hell if you can build them here, all you need is the BIO/CHEM weapons to make it across the border.
Not so hard when you consider the Los Zatas gang and the border region they have influenced.
Do we really have to pick this apart or does it stand out on it's own.
GWOT/GSAVE happened to occur before Katrina, Hurricane vs. human action: Hurricanes are not preventable, terrorism is. How does a porous border and Katrina link?
True the border is porous, and by you saying you see it everyday, do you do anything to contribute to the safeguarding of this nation? One does not have to be a Soldier, Sailor, Airmen, or Marine to help with the security of the nation. It's called civic responsibility. I could use a profiler like you since you seem to have what it takes to pick out terrorists. Next time I'm in the sandbox I'll be sure to look you up and ask if I can borrow your skills at ID'ing threats. They all look like normal people to me at some point. They just look a little different when they happen to be in a few thousand pieces afterword.
Los Zetas is a Narco-Terrorist organization at heart. They are there to secure lines of passage for the cartels product. Not a cross border islamic org. They were trained to counter cartel activity, not set-up shop in the US and carry out terrorist attacks.
Your comparisons are vague and weak, try harder next time. :mad:
edited to add: Thanks Doc!
First off I do not read potted plant liberal papers, books or blogs.
I lost confidence in the POTUS because of his administration's response to Katrina. The border is porous. I see it everyday in Nevada.
Sue me for my opinion. Just because you are smarter doesn't mean I am without reason for my concern about protecting our borders. WMD's coming through the border is a tall order???
How big do these things need to be? Hell if you can build them here, all you need is the BIO/CHEM weapons to make it across the border.
Not so hard when you consider the Los Zatas gang and the border region they have influenced.
Please....
You lost confidence in President Bush when he "stole" the election in Florida in 2000 and then again in Ohio in 2004. Please don't insult our intelligence by saying that you loved and admired the man up right up until the forces of nature unleashed hurricane Katrina on LA and MS. :rolleyes:
There is not a country in the world that can promise 100% security. You have to go on the offense and kill the bad guys before they get to your country and harm innocent civilians. That's what we're attempting to do right now.
Detcord,
Profiling has it's pro's and con's. Don't get tunnel vision when dealing with a problem. Just like a pitcher changes what he throws at a batter, the enemy will change their tactics too.
In SF we spend a lot of time with many different types of people. There are 20-40 year old male Muslims fighting and dying right along side their American counterparts in Iraq and Afghanistan as we speak.
How should we handle them?
I am not a liberal, I do not abide by liberal principle, I do not believe the POTUS stole the election, I voted for him in 2000 and 2004.
Leadership starts at the top. Are you telling me it did not take too long for the POTUS to respond to Katrina? Why do you think he apologized?
I like the guy, and admire him for a lot of reasons, but I am losing confidence in his ability to communicate honestly anymore. He used to sound sincere.
What have I done to combat the pourous border? I sell to building contractors, working 15 hour days. I am hoping that by paying taxes my elected officials in the Fed Govt will open there own eyes and tell ME what THEY are doing to protect the borders.
Las Zatas was an example of how we have lost control of the border. I never said Hadji and Zatas were in cohoots. It is an illustration of how MY POTUS lacks the will to do something about the southern border, which when we find out just how bad it is, I am sure he will accept full responsibility for that as well.
I wasn't looking for the POTUS to accept responsibility for the Katrina mess. I was kind of hoping they actually never would have been that unresponsive to ...oh I don't know....THE WORST CATASTROPHE IN OUR HISTORY. I don't blame him for Katrina, I blame him for his lack of immediate response.
What could he have done? A helluva lot more than he did in the first week, I'll say that.
The Reaper
09-17-2005, 08:37
Gents:
Spirited discussion such as this goes on in teamrooms every day. There is nothing wrong with having a different opinion.
The ad hominem attacks, name calling, and baiting need to stop.
Hindsight is 20/20 as it always has been.
TR
The response to Katrina was faster than Hugo, or Andrew.
Red Cross pre-positioned supplies and help prior to Katrina. The levee break (local gov't responsibility) broke and flooded the area which severly impacted and halted the local response.
The mayor and governor are the first line of help for the people. If they'd stop whining and take action the big dog wouldn't have had to get involved.
Be proud that he is in charge and took control, otherwise relief effort would have only been recovery effort.
Do we really have to pick this apart or does it stand out on it's own.
GWOT/GSAVE happened to occur before Katrina, Hurricane vs. human action: Hurricanes are not preventable, terrorism is. How does a porous border and Katrina link?
True the border is porous, and by you saying you see it everyday, do you do anything to contribute to the safeguarding of this nation? One does not have to be a Soldier, Sailor, Airmen, or Marine to help with the security of the nation. It's called civic responsibility. I could use a profiler like you since you seem to have what it takes to pick out terrorists. Next time I'm in the sandbox I'll be sure to look you up and ask if I can borrow your skills at ID'ing threats. They all look like normal people to me at some point. They just look a little different when they happen to be in a few thousand pieces afterword.
Los Zetas is a Narco-Terrorist organization at heart. They are there to secure lines of passage for the cartels product. Not a cross border islamic org. They were trained to counter cartel activity, not set-up shop in the US and carry out terrorist attacks.
Your comparisons are vague and weak, try harder next time. :mad:
edited to add: Thanks Doc!
To your first point, stand on the border with my rifle and shoot at unarmed civilians. What do you mean what do I do to safeguard the nation? Do I sound like someone who should point a gun at border crossers?
Second, look me up when ID'ing threats??? You either have me confused with someone else, or somewhere you think I said ID'ing terrorists had something to do with the Katrina disaster. I am not following you here.
Third, I never said Zatas was intermingled with Islamic terrorists. They are terrorists, though. And it is a bright shining example of just how shitty the border is getting, which tells me there are areas along the border suitable for smuggling WMD's.
I gotta go work another 15 hour day in Lake Havasu City. I'll try and protect the border, but someone has to sell building materials to these $6 million dollar homes. :boohoo
The Reaper
09-17-2005, 08:41
Sigi:
I believe that the POTUS offered more than is widely known and was refused by the state and local leadership.
I also believe that the apologies are largely because the media spun it to make the POTUS the bad guy when the aforementioned state and local leaders did little to prepare till it was too late, and then actually impeded Federal relief efforts. The apology is essentially for something that he is not guilty of, because the media has a large part of the American people believing that it was the POTUS's fault.
Look at his poll numbers the past few weeks. I think this was media driven, and gleefully reported by them.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
To your first point, stand on the border with my rifle and shoot at unarmed civilians. What do you mean what do I do to safeguard the nation? Do I sound like someone who should point a gun at border crossers?
Second, look me up when ID'ing threats??? You either have me confused with someone else, or somewhere you think I said ID'ing terrorists had something to do with the Katrina disaster. I am not following you here.
Third, I never said Zatas was intermingled with Islamic terrorists. They are terrorists, though. And it is a bright shining example of just how shitty the border is getting, which tells me there are areas along the border suitable for smuggling WMD's.
I gotta go work another 15 hour day in Lake Havasu City. I'll try and protect the border, but someone has to sell building materials to these $6 million dollar homes. :boohoo
On the first point: Call the authorities, you said that you see it everyday.
Second point: refer to above. You "see it" everyday.
Third point: Understood now, there are suitable places if you know or suspect them, please report it.
Last one I'm unsure how to respond. :confused:
QP's/ Admins: remove if this is out of line if you see it fit.
I am not a liberal, I do not abide by liberal principle, I do not believe the POTUS stole the election, I voted for him in 2000 and 2004.
Leadership starts at the top. Are you telling me it did not take too long for the POTUS to respond to Katrina? Why do you think he apologized?
I like the guy, and admire him for a lot of reasons, but I am losing confidence in his ability to communicate honestly anymore. He used to sound sincere.
What have I done to combat the pourous border? I sell to building contractors, working 15 hour days. I am hoping that by paying taxes my elected officials in the Fed Govt will open there own eyes and tell ME what THEY are doing to protect the borders.
Las Zatas was an example of how we have lost control of the border. I never said Hadji and Zatas were in cohoots. It is an illustration of how MY POTUS lacks the will to do something about the southern border, which when we find out just how bad it is, I am he will accept full responsibility for that as well.
I wasn't looking for the POTUS to accept responsibility for the Katrina mess. I was kind of hoping they actually never would have been that unresponsive to ...oh I don't know....THE WORST CATASTROPHE IN OUR HISTORY. I don't blame him for Katrina, I blame him for his lack of immediate response.
What could he have done? A helluva lot more than he did in the first week, I'll say that.
Lose your attitude. By using all capital letters, you are yelling at us.
The POTUS tried to intervene before the disaster. He was turned down.
You're wrong about his will too. He's a clear example of doing the hard right over the easy wrong. What were the responses of the previous administrations to the terrorist actions initiated against this country?
Katrina was not the worst disaster in our history.
Fixed fortifications such as walls and castles are monuments to the stupidity of man. If mountain ranges and oceans can be overcome, anything built by man can be overcome as well.
Ambush Master
09-17-2005, 09:04
Sigi:
I believe that the POTUS offered more than is widely known and was refused by the state and local leadership.
I also believe that the apologies are largely because the media spun it to make the POTUS the bad guy when the aforementioned state and local leaders did little to prepare till it was too late, and then actually impeded Federal relief efforts. The apology is essentially for something that he is not guilty of, because the media has a large part of the American people believing that it was the POTUS's fault.
TR
Right after his speach, night before last, during an attempt by Ted Koppel and crew to ambush POTUS, they interviewed a group op Black People outside of the Astrodome. The responses that they got were not AT ALL what they had expected. These people, when asked if they believed what he had said was sincere and did they trust POTUS, answered that they believed in him and trusted him more than their own State and Local Politicians !!! When asked how they felt about how poorly the Feds had responded, they came back with "It's not for the Feds to do, it was a total breakdown of their City and State Governments" !!!! Then one went on to say how the local Politicians had squandered MILLIONS of dollars that were appropriated for the Levee and Flood Protection Systems !!! When the camera switched back to Koppel, he looked like he was about to puke !!! :D
I think that in spite of the negative spin that the media is trying to put on this, most of the people involved see the real picture and are not buying into the media's views.
Later
Martin
Our borders have always been a issue and always will. Ask the Brits when we were a colony.
China built a Great wall as a solution to illegal border activity, and did it work?
We have our own people who "cross other people borders" for military reason and those border are "more secured than ours". Example in Jordan, pre-Iraqi war, the Sayeret Matkol (Israel's Spec ops) operated on the Jordan/Iraq border going into Iraq.
I guess what I am driving at....... How can we practically secure our borders against all intrusions? Can it be done? If it can be done, do you want to live a society that operates that way? Nazi Germany had "super secured' borders but it did not stop people from coming in and out against the design's of the nazis.
IMHO the "uncontrolled borders" is just another Mantra used to divert attention from the real problems. Just like the WMD mantra, and before that the "Kids in Iraq are dieing because of the US, due to the UN restrictions" mantra. (after the UN's food for Oil corruption, that mantra was quickly dropped).
POTUS has offered some viable changes to improve our border security. The Key word is "VIABLE". a Great Wall won't stop Illegal activity.
Our borders have always been a issue and always will. I agree. Folks have been illegally coming across the borders since I was kid and I'm 52.
As Hollis points out, if the person or persons are sophisticated enough, they're going to come across no matter how good the security is.
I guess what is the most dissappointing about the previous discussion is that many of the folks that are saying Bush is doing a bad job seemed to be only parroting the news media. I mean the largest storm ever to hit America did so less then three weeks ago, and the City has been pretty much under control for most this time. I believe less then 1,000 people have lost their life. How amazing is that.
What's the uproar about? A group of welfare folks got stuck at the convention center because they did not have transportation? No one brought them food and water? I don't what planet these media types are from. But on my planet, who is responsible for providing them transportation? They are. Who is responsible for insuring they have water and food? They are.
Yeah they are poor. So what? You want to sit on your ass all day, well that's what happens. And please, don't give me the "its not their fault", bullshit. I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.
If we collectively say that they are not mostly responsible for their status as poor and undereducated, then we will have effectively removed any and all expectation for personal responsibility and set the bar so low that they will be mired in poverty for umteen generations in the future. I don't know a lot, but one thing I'm pretty sure about is that it was not Bush's responsibility to deliver bottled water to those folks.
Another thing, just because there is a disaster, that means folks can start looting and it's the government's fault if it happens? I don't think so. Personal f.... responsiblity. I've heard a lot of talk about the New Orleans Police and how they are underpaid. I don't think they're paid less then our GI's. If you're underpaid you're not expected to have integrity, honour, etc. ? Sounds like some commie BS to me.
Lastly, what the f... do you think Bush is going to do about the border? Let's see, prosecute the war on terrorism, handle Katrina, keep the liberal media off his back, stimulate the economy and oh yea, fix the border problem.
You see, it's not a Bush problem. The problem is us. It's our inconoclastic attitude. We expect Bush to accomplish miracles. It's our unrealistic expectations. Of Bush, of our local leaders, our spouses, our professors, our police, etc. It appears the only person who we don't expect anything from is Bill Clinton.
Oh by the way. Unless I'm mistaken, wasn't Clinton POTUS for 8 straight years? What impact did he have on the decrease of international terrorism, increasing the viability of our military, increasing our ability to react to national emergencies, increasing the ability of our intellegence agencies? If anything, he negatively impacted all of the above. But you see, we don't expect much from the village idiot, and that's why he gets a free pass.
Time to grow the f.. up. This is life. Sometimes life is cruel. We cannot control every contingency. Anyone who is relying on the government for their survival is putting themselves in harms way.
DETCORD -John Walker Lindh, Richard Reid and Jose Padillia are all what sex, age, and religion??? Let's see: They are Muslim, male, and between 20 and 40.
The crys of "get all the muslims together and throw them out" is exactly what your enemy wants to see happen. There is a good reason they "hide amongst the fishes". You're oversimplication and knee jerk reaction is an impossible logistical task, as well an unjust and illegal action. How would you identify all of your aforementioned as muslims? Herd them all into one area and make them wear red cresents on their garments, or perhaps "inking" them up with a number on their forearms? Thats been done before. Understand that we fight this enemy on multiple fronts - all of which are ours to lose. For them, (militant islam) the battle that lasts thru generations is of no consequence - its the end game that counts. For us, being "proactive" without understanding the full 360 degree scope of the battle would be a huge mistake. How would you know whats inside Hasan Akbar as he serves your McDonalds Happy Meals?
SIGI
No one is happy with our borders, they are what they are. When you post a solutionless shot against POTUS and Congress and show a basic misunderstanding of what could be a "WMD", then don't be suprised when others post a "what kind of cheese do you want with your whine" response.
I choose to take responsibility for any action, or lack thereof that I partake of. I watched the news prior to Katrina hitting for days in ADVANCE, just like the rest of America. And after it was over I watched as a forewarned gov/mayor/police chief cried and screamed like pussys "wheres the help", and I immediately thought of Rudy in NY - who had no warning of their disaster, walking around directing rescue efforts, along with those personnel that had not died during the attacks. Without commo - police, fire, med personnel swung into action in NY, not knowing if another attack was coming. You get out of what you put into yourself, if you're a healthy male or female and choose to live off the tit your whole life, and mother nature takes it away - you die. Those old, sick, or unable to transport souls who persihed, were the responsibility of the LOCAL government. I'm sure that mayor knew how to get to them, when he needed their votes.
On the transportation of WMD question - the fact is, that what is being done to prevent certain types of attack should NEVER be released within the public domain, or to anyone who really doesn't need to know. You are at war - OpSec is everything - to include the internet. Keep your eyes and ears open, report suspicious activity, and be a good witness if necessary.
Do you remember?
1. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by
a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
2. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:
a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
3. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
4. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
5. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old
American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:
a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
6. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver
trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:
a. Captain Kidd
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
7. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
8. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
9. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems
c. The World Wrestling Federation
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
10. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to
take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into
the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed.
Thousands of people were killed by:
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
11. Over the last few years, the United States has fought a war in Afghanistan
and Iraq against:
a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
12. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
a. Bonnie and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
and so on, and so on, and so on...
Nope, I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?
So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, leave Muslim Males
between the ages 17 and 40 alone because of profiling. Let's not deport
them or restrict their visas either, after all, that's how the 9-11 highjackers
got here to do their terror.
How many more cells are multiplying in the U.S. as we speak???
Liberty and justice for all, unless you are an American murdered by these
wonderful people.
As the writer of the award winning story "Forrest Gump" so aptly put it,
"Stupid is as stupid does."
The subject line of this thread has been buried under a pile of camel shit so I will sign off after having my last say.
A couple of you truly disgust me. Twenty years ago you would be screaming to ship all blacks back to Africa. What you propose is not the country I would choose to love and cherish. I have been around the world and seen all kinds of people and can honestly say the majority are good people.
Those who choose to be anti-american should be dealt with. To discriminate merely on the bases of appearance is juvenile. I have asked this question many times and still havan't received an answer yet. Is there one solitary person in this world who can say he chose his place of birth, race and parents?
What some propose is a return to the gestapo and/or NKVD. If that is what you want I feel sorry for you. The dictators of this world gave total safety to their people at the cost of freedom. I prefer freedom with risk.
Another hypothetical question-- If we exclude what has become the largest segment of the population of the world from our borders who will run the hotels, drive the taxis, man the hospitals and, in general, keep the economy at its present level. If you haven't noticed, the service industries in this country are run by people of Middle Eastern descent. We'll throw Indians in there since I doubt you can tell the difference. If we exclude people we also exclude their trade. We will wilt on the vine and at the least, cease to be the most prosperous country in the world.
I accept the freedom of risks.
As for the faces of our enemies you might put pictures o the likes of John Kerry, Jane Fonda and Michael Moore up!!!
I would label the above as socialists and they socialism is as real an enemy as Islam. Communism isn't dead, it is just resting and recouping while we fight the Ismamics and Islamics did while we battled communism.
I am not perhaps as eloquent as most but that's my rant for the day.
I'm just going to take a wild guess here and assume that I'm one of the people who "disgust" you. Please don't cast supposition in here as to what I was thinking 20 years ago, ok???
Animals of instict survive on decisions based on sight, sound, and smell. Law enforcement takes serious criminals into custody daily based on a general perp "description" or profile.
To deny this common sense means to deny being human. The more you deny this truth, the more likely you are to become a victim of another human's violence.
As far as the "gestapo" goes, they would simply murder them in ovens or whatever. Sending someone back to the country they are originally from to live out their natural life is hardly "barbaric." BIG difference.
Aren't there enough people here already, or should we become overpopulated like china and India???
I have an Indian and Syrian friend (and friends of all other colors/nationalities as well), so please don't make racial assumptions about me.
I don't think the hotel/service industry, nor our economy will collapse if people from the middle east were not here. After all, how did the hotel/service industry not to mention our economy survive all those years before people from the middle east were here???
Yes, John Kerry, Jane Fonda, Michael Moore, etc. are enemies as well. If you notice, I go after those types too...
The U.S. won't wilt. EVERYBODY on earth wants American culture, American music, American clothes, American movies, and of course American money, not to mention, EVERYBODY wants to come here to live. WE call the shots. WE have the commodity EVERYBODY wants.
It's time to act like we are in charge. The military is doing good job. At home we need to tighten the slack...
The crys of "get all the muslims together and throw them out" is exactly what your enemy wants to see happen. There is a good reason they "hide amongst the fishes". You're oversimplication and knee jerk reaction is an impossible logistical task, as well an unjust and illegal action. How would you identify all of your aforementioned as muslims? Herd them all into one area and make them wear red cresents on their garments, or perhaps "inking" them up with a number on their forearms? Thats been done before. Understand that we fight this enemy on multiple fronts - all of which are ours to lose. For them, (militant islam) the battle that lasts thru generations is of no consequence - its the end game that counts. For us, being "proactive" without understanding the full 360 degree scope of the battle would be a huge mistake. How would you know whats inside Hasan Akbar as he serves your McDonalds Happy Meals?
Well, let's see: I think I said to find people on visas and revoke them, and deny future entry from known terrorist countries. THAT'S fairly easy to do, especially the visa approval process. If they go into hiding, they automatically transform into "fugitive" status and should be hunted by law enforcement and deported once in custody. No phone, frozen bank accounts, no credit, etc. Sure people can get around that stuff, but there are a LOT of things we can do do make a fugitive's life a pain in the ass.
Everybody whines about the borders, and yes they are the greatest single tactical/geographical problem we face.
Isn't handling an administrative/paperwork function that requires approval and can be revoked a lot easier
than securing thousands of miles of border???
You know I am pretty frustrated right now. I have little time to read anymore. I can't educate myself like the last few years because I work 7 days a week, 15 hours a day.
Honestly I am a Bush fan. Hell I thought everyone knew that.
I cannot offer solutions and that doesn't have to make me part of the problem. I am not close enough to the border to stop anything, but I am close enough to see the after effects. I am serious when I say I see plenty of "immigrants" living in shithole North LV who speak zero english. ZERO. Yet they work in the back of casinio restaraunts because other "white" people can't speak Spanish.
Deflecting blame to the state and local officials is fine, because they screwed the pooch bigtime. But what a particular awesome opportunity for POTUS to step up to the plate and L E A D. But in the end he finds himself, again, behind the 8 ball...trying to rally the nation ... pimping the American "resolve."
Anyway, I love the guy. He admittedly gets harsh radio from the ultra conservative's on LV radio, but it is what it is. I will not abandon him but when I am upset with him I should be free to express that.
This is not the site to throw around accusations, especially about POTUS, and I am/was unprepared for the "prove it" challenges. But when a man I admire misses an opportunity to stand above every local and state "leader" to show how it is done, I find the excuses and finger pointing and blame deflection considerably weak and inadequate, and that is so disheartening.
Responding quicker than H Andrew? THAT is an intelligent retort??? Hey, we cleaned up the WTC 5 mos sooner, so that makes us the shit. H Andrew was a fumblefook of contractors raping locals of down payments. People could not get their insurance payments because the insurance companies were filing with the fed govt for assistance, which set back relief 2 years+. OMG please don't use Andrew as the template of how to handle Katrina.
A fumble is a fumble. LA/MI and the Gulf Coast are not saturated with leadership, so the fact they dropped the ball (and are catching the flak) is not a surprise. To say they are the real ones who fooked up is like saying the reason P Harbor was bombed was because of the Japanese. No shit sherlock. But what was POTUS' response, and was it timely? Did he grab the opportunity, or was he absent those first few days? Kinda depends on you brainwas....er....perspective.
And I am finding it more and more irritating for him to constantly be the "response" POTUS instead of the "proactive" POTUS.
I love the guy, but maybe those are the ones who disappoint the most.
Sigi - happy not to be banned for his opinions.
EVERYBODY on earth wants American culture, American music, American clothes, American movies, and of course American money, not to mention, EVERYBODY wants to come here to live. WE call the shots. WE have the commodity EVERYBODY wants.
I would have to strongly disagree there. Very strongly, actually.
I disagree also. Not one damn mention of American Women.
:p
But in the end he finds himself, again, behind the 8 ball...trying to rally the nation ... pimping the American "resolve."
I don't care for the pimping comment. Thought it was pretty disrespectful for a sitting U.S. President on this type of board.
I will not abandon him but when I am upset with him I should be free to express that.
You can't shout it from the roof tops for all I care. Problem is, you're a guest here and your SA is lacking.
This is not the site to throw around accusations, especially about POTUS, and I am/was unprepared for the "prove it" challenges. But when a man I admire misses an opportunity to stand above every local and state "leader" to show how it is done, I find the excuses and finger pointing and blame deflection considerably weak and inadequate, and that is so disheartening.
But you threw those accusations around freely in here and then called the responses weak, inadequate and disheartening. Bad SA.
Responding quicker than H Andrew? THAT is an intelligent retort??? Hey, we cleaned up the WTC 5 mos sooner, so that makes us the shit. H Andrew was a fumblefook of contractors raping locals of down payments. People could not get their insurance payments because the insurance companies were filing with the fed govt for assistance, which set back relief 2 years+. OMG please don't use Andrew as the template of how to handle Katrina.
I guess you were on the ground for both of these operations.
To say they are the real ones who fooked up is like saying the reason P Harbor was bombed was because of the Japanese. No shit sherlock. But what was POTUS' response, and was it timely? Did he grab the opportunity, or was he absent those first few days? Kinda depends on you brainwas....er....perspective.
This is what finally got you canned in here. I don't care for your attitude and your SA is lacking in here as a guest.
Sigi - happy not to be banned for his opinions.
I don't know who made that promise to you but it didn't work in here this time.
It's not what you say it's how you say it.
I accept the freedom of risks.
QRQ, I think you defined this subject in its most basic form. It is Freedom, the risks it offers, the requirements it takes to preserve it, and the resolve to hold it fast.
I am not perhaps as eloquent as most but that's my rant for the day.
I thought what you had to say was eloquent. Especially your got past all the smoke and brought out what was really at stake. IMHO the preservation of our freedoms is what is at stake. Whether by the terrorist designs or our own short sightedness in choosing a quick solution or wrong method to combat the terrorists.
SFRADIOMAN
09-18-2005, 20:56
Weapons of mass murder, destruction, casualties are all good definitions of the many things we have addressed.
What would you call all the following being blown up at the same time: all the dams in the US, all the refineries, all the nuclear energy reactors and all the bridges over main waterways?
Follow that with ULBDD2 serum being injected in all major water systems and grain storage facilities, all three US mints being raided and destroyed, not so random snipers at the most common intersections, all the cruise ships sunk in the major harbor entrances?
My bet is you would call it, chaos followed by anarchy.
Any other names?
Well done?
From a planning and execution viewpoint of course.
I would have to strongly disagree there. Very strongly, actually.
How so?
Weapons of mass murder, destruction, casualties are all good definitions of the many things we have addressed.
What would you call all the following being blown up at the same time: all the dams in the US, all the refineries, all the nuclear energy reactors and all the bridges over main waterways?
Follow that with ULBDD2 serum being injected in all major water systems and grain storage facilities, all three US mints being raided and destroyed, not so random snipers at the most common intersections, all the cruise ships sunk in the major harbor entrances?
My bet is you would call it, chaos followed by anarchy.
Any other names?
I got a Katadyn and a ruck full of loaded magazines :D
Freedom is for Americans first and everyone else second.
There's enough problems from Americans, let alone importing brutal religous zealots. People might want to check out the recent events in Germany and Holland regarding saying "no" to Islam...
Here's some of the "risks of freedom" women who are exposed to Islam suffer, and along with some videos of beheadings (all of them), stonings etc. Great site to show the real "truth" about everyday Islam.
WARNING: Very graphic. Might want to not eat before watching.
Hope the people on this board have the stomach to go through this site, there's lot's of pages of stuff, look for the numbered links on the bottom of each page.
Editted by Doc. We do not want these types of pictures linked to this site.
Ok, here's a few teaser images: RIP to that poor woman, and the unlucky guy who has his eyes removed. Islam is just so wonderful, eh??? Yeah, please, let's import more of this to America. Freedom for all???
Editted by Doc.
About Chaos, I think many of us, hopes it never gets to that. We serve our country so it doesn't get that way.
How so?
US is the biggest exporter of Culture in the world. Quick and easy and mass produced. TV shows, et el. Why should another country bother to make their own stuff when there's a multitude of mass produced crap coming from the US?
Now I hope I don't offend anyone with this next comment. It's not intended to be.
US culture is geared toward quick and easy. It's results now now now. No patience to wait for good results. This IMO appeals to "foreigners'" laziness. Which is why there are so many McD's. BKs, etc etc around the world.
Noone really "wants" it. It's just there and it's quick and it's easy.
I'll agree with you Huey that things are mass produced and on the cheap these days, but the point I was making is people around the world want American stuff whether it's movies, fast food or whatever.
The first rule of economics is there must be a "demand." If the demand wasn't there, nobody would be buying, watching, listening, wearing, etc., but they are...
About Chaos, I think many of us, hopes it never gets to that. We serve our country so it doesn't get that way.
Let's hang tough and make sure it stays that way...
I can think of a few area/people who actively work against US influence. To name just two, The Taliban and North Korea. I'm sure you can add more to the list.
Detcord, you currently have people in the US Military, fighting in Iraq, who are not yet US citizens. They are from Pueto Rico, Mexico, Iraq, Cambodia, Korea, Nicaragua, Russia, Vietnam, the list goes on. Check out Michael Yon's blog hereWelcome Aboard (http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/2005/07/welcome-aboard.html).
Some of these places are currently or have been in the past, not friendly to the US, in fact I would say actively unfriendly. Yet every single one of these people, at some time in their past, felt so strongly about a country not their own that they were willing to pick up arms and fight and die for it.
I personally can't pick out by looking at a passport or visa the good Iraqi's, Koreans, Afgani's, Cambodian's etc from the bad ones.
Are you willing to lose all those good men and women? You say" Freedom for Americans first, everyone else second". I understand the frustration behind those words, I truly do.
Yet by not saying "Freedom for all, regardless of nationality" you are condemning those same people who are currently fighting for your freedom and mine to lives with none.
One of the absolute fundamental principles the US was founded on, and one I have always admired is "Liberty and Justice for All". There was no "Americans" at the end of that sentence.
By locking down your borders, only letting through those who "look" right, or are from the "right" countries etc, you are banning from entry those who are most important, the people who come to the US from those "wrong" countries and who say "wow, I can't believe the freedom these people have, this is something worth fighting for".
Those people who go back to their country and tell their neighbours about how great democracy is. Those people who love your country and what it stands for so much, they stay and fight for it.
Whilever you have freedoms that other countries don't you will be a target. You always have been. So, you do all you can to try to identify the individuals who threaten you, within the confines of not restricting those fundamental freedoms I'm so impressed with. Sometimes you will fail and people will die. That's human nature.
Ask those men and women who don't even have citizenship fighting in Iraq whether that's a risk they are willing to take for freedom. I suspect it will be.
My apologies for the long post. Please feel free to argue.
Freedom is for Americans first and everyone else second.
There's enough problems from Americans, let alone importing brutal religous zealots. People might want to check out the recent events in Germany and Holland regarding saying "no" to Islam...
Here's some of the "risks of freedom" women who are exposed to Islam suffer, and along with some videos of beheadings (all of them), stonings etc. Great site to show the real "truth" about everyday Islam.
WARNING: Very graphic. Might want to not eat before watching.
Hope the people on this board have the stomach to go through this site, there's lot's of pages of stuff, look for the numbered links on the bottom of each page.
Editted by Doc. We do not want these types of pictures linked to this site.
Ok, here's a few teaser images: RIP to that poor woman, and the unlucky guy who has his eyes removed. Islam is just so wonderful, eh??? Yeah, please, let's import more of this to America. Freedom for all???
Detcord,
I believe you made your point that there are bad people in this world. While there is no extreme graphic's rule posted by the TS in this site's rules, I deleted the links and pictures you posted on the grounds of bad taste.
Please don't post those types of pictures in here again.
The Reaper
09-19-2005, 06:11
Detcord, you currently have people in the US Military, fighting in Iraq, who are not yet US citizens. They are from Pueto Rico....
Puerto Ricans are Americans, U.S. citizens, and carry U.S. passports.
Second, the numbers of people who are serving but are not U.S. citizens are a very small percentage of the U.S. force.
TR
My apologies Mr Reaper, thank you for the correction.
I totally appreciate that the number is very small, but I believe that the fact that you have any at all and from such a varied list of birth countries (different parts of the world, different religions, different cultures) speaks volumes about the US and it's policy of inclusion, not exclusion.
Team Sergeant
09-19-2005, 08:39
This is a good example of a discussion gone bad. Some of the rules are listed below. (Graphic (human) pictrues will now be added to the list.)
Learn to argue well or go elsewhere.
Team Sergeant
The Website by Special Forces Soldiers for Special Forces Soldiers
Bear in mind the Rules of Engagement (ROE) before registering. It is essential you read and comprehend this post prior to registering and becoming a member. If you cannot abide by the rules of this site, do not bother registering, as your stay here will be brief. In addition, check back here from time to time, as the ROE may change.
What Professional Soldiers.com is - The first thing to understand is that site is directed primarily to the Special Forces Soldier, and those interested in the SF life-style. It is our site and if you are not a member of the Special Forces, you are a guest. We welcome discussion - we demand respect be shown to all members and we will show you the same, provided you demonstrate you deserve. Respect is earned not decreed.
Professional Soldiers.com is a serious site for serious minded people.
What Professional Soldiers.com is not. This is not a playground. It is not a place to have all your questions answered in order to avoid doing your own research. Special Forces soldiers are self-motivated and we expect no less from PS.com members. While you are welcome to join, this is not a site for ninjas, air-softers, paint-ballers, etc. There are other sites dedicated to those hobbies, proceed there if you feel the need to amuse yourself. Professional Soldiers.com is not a political discussion board. If you feel the need to condemn the current administration, whatever it may be, go elsewhere. Fundamental discussions of political events impacting foreign policy in general and the Special Forces Community specifically are encouraged, as long as they are conducted in a mature manner.
Quiet Professionals - Glance at the user titles of the members. You will notice some members have the title - Quiet Professional- this is a Special Forces term of respect and members holding this title are bonafide members of the Special Forces Community. It is a small community, and most of us know each other personally. Show respect for their service. Many of our members are on the cutting edge of the War on Terrorism and other areas of US foreign policy.
Professional Soldiers is owned and operated by Quiet Professionals. While all moderators may not be Quiet Professionals, all of the administrators are and all have zero tolerance for foolish or troublesome members. Professional Soldiers moderators enjoy the total support of board administrators and Quiet Professionals. They have been chosen as moderators because they are subject matter experts in their fields and are proven supporters of the Special Forces Community. Any verbal assault on a PS moderator will not be viewed as amusing and will be dealt with unsympathetically by the board administrators.
Enjoy the site.
De Oppresso Liber