New Bates Boots - two thumbs way way way up!

[That Java Guy]

Another transplant from a different forum, what can I say - I'm lazy :D

Picked these bates up at the shot show. I don't know if they are still in the development mode or final production - but they felt great right out of the box. I strapped them on the morning of the 1st day of the shot and wore them every day (and night) for the whole thing. Not a pinch, rub or hotspot. Super grippy but not squishy sole - Great ankle support while being flexible.

I took them out into the mountains around Vegas a few days ago. 6 mile round trip up to Turtlehead peak. 1900 foot gain in elevation the last 1/3 of it. Mostly scree and gravel with big sandstone boulders and a 40ft wall to climb. Went up with a 55lb Kifaru Zulu on. After getting back down went for a 2 mile run with the pack on.

From the trailhead
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/So-far-away.jpg


Getting a bit closer
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/almost-there.jpg



The way up
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/last-third.jpg



Me - not hungover in Vegas (a rare sight)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/So-tired.jpg



The final goal
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/Getting-closer.jpg



AND......the boots
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/Bates-boots.jpg



Yup - I won't put the oakleys on again as long as I have these.

Dan

[That Java Guy]

OK - day 2.

Did about 14 miles (I think a litle more but no GPS to verify). Wore the boots - the same socks (ullfrotte - more on these later) and a 45lb pack - yup, I wussed out and had to go lighter for this hump. The route was through gravel, rocky washes, dirt, rock and snow. The elevation gain was 2,694 feet with a peak of 7,094 feet above sea level.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/Bates%20boots/a-fun-little-walk.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/Bates%20boots/great-gear.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/Bates%20boots/not-close-enough.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/Bates%20boots/snowy-trail.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/Bates%20boots/top-sign.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/Bates%20boots/looking-way-down.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/Bates%20boots/Altitude.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/Bates%20boots/what-a-view.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/Bates%20boots/Super-Zulu-2.jpg



Our goal
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/Bates%20boots/the-final-peak.jpg

Check this closeup - so close yet so far away. Footprints should help give an idea of the scale
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/Bates%20boots/the-final-peak-closeup.jpg

AND - the boots after getting off the mountain and back to the hotel
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/Bates%20boots/post-walk-boots.jpg


Again - not a pinch, rub or hotspot. The boots felt great the entire way - up and down the mountain. Excellent anke support without compromising the abbility to clime extremly steep piches. Scaled some big rocks and I felt like a damn billygoat with these on. Would not want to wear any other boots than these.

Oh yeah - I used to make fun of hikers that used those ski pole looking hiking sticks - not any more. Those things are the HEAT!!!!!

Dan

[Gypsy]

I know this is about the boots, but...beautiful pictures!

[frostfire]

ah, the new M-9

I have good experience with Bates boots as well. I wear the M-9 predecessor; the 8" Gore-Tex Enforcer with Vibram Eagle outsole. I've used it for running, hiking, rock climbing, stretching (swimming next).
The sole does "self-clean" as advertised and provide excellent traction outdoor (had no problem jogging outside last Sat when ATL was frozen), while indoor...
well, when it's raining outside I was up for some squeaky "ice skating" as I entered my dept building.

Tested it when car broke down and had to hike/run 8 miles up from Tallulah Falls to the nearest town along US 441. The boot + Thorlo combat socks gave flawless performance.
I was really thankful of the ankle-support after the sun sets down and the only light came from incoming cars: There were holes, trash, tree trunks etc. along the highway that caused my friends to stumble in their tennis shoes and hurt their ankles.
I'm going to have to ditch the pair in exchange with jungle boots for better conditioning, though

Questions, Sir:

- Does the boot sole squeaks when wet on the floor (esp. marble floor)?
- Did you take out the Gore-tex plate from the lace or did yours come without it?
- Does the protruding lace-holes/hooks lacerate the lace cord over time?

[militarymoron]

great review and pics, java - thanks for taking the time. good to see you here.
cheers,
MM

[Desert Fox]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/javahed/Gear/Bates%20boots/Super-Zulu-2.jpg

Not as high though!
Thank you for sharing!

[That Java Guy]

Questions, Sir:

- Does the boot sole squeaks when wet on the floor (esp. marble floor)?
- Did you take out the Gore-tex plate from the lace or did yours come without it?
- Does the protruding lace-holes/hooks lacerate the lace cord over time?


Holy geeze! Don't call me sir - I respond just fine to "hey you" but Dan is OK also :cool:

I don't know about the wet sole but I'll try to find some wet and tile to play with today.

Gore Tex plate??? I guess mine did ot come with that.

I've only had the boots for a week so I don't know how the laces will hold up. These boots are designed so damn well that I can't imagine that the lace holes would be any less well made.



Couple more things. The Bates folks said these were made of pigskin. I asked if that had anything to do with the ongoing conflicts overseas and delivering good solid head kicks but they denied that and said it was because the pigskin breathes better - dries quickes and will dry soft as opposed to cow hide drying stiff.

Also - the 4th set of eyelets up from the tow are self locking ones - meaning you can pull your laces as tight as you want and they will stay that way - leaving the top 3 to be tied however tight you want 'em. Great little innovation.

MM - great to be here man!

DF - nice pic!

Dan

[frostfire]

Dan,
I called you Sir out of respect, age difference, and the prospect that I might have to salute you one day anyway, so I'd better get used to it.

The picture should show the location for the supposed Gore tex plate, or Bates website should show it better:
http://www.batesfootwear.com/Catalog/buydetail.asp?IsConfigure=False&ProductID=9387&NavID=2L&SizeTypeID=&BrandId=&NavType=N&OIID=&StyleID=
Seems you got the "special edition." May I know how much you spent for those?

That self-locking feature is a great innovation IMHO.
Roller skates (esp. Hypno) have had that feature for years, 'bout time for the boot industry to catch up.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Not that I know anything, but I think this may be the greatest gear review posted here. Not because the gear itself was reviewed so thoroughly, but because its performance was documented without direct reference to the gear. Great pix, and great posts.

Welcome again to the Board.

[That Java Guy]

Dan,
I called you Sir out of respect, age difference, and the prospect that I might have to salute you one day anyway, so I'd better get used to it.

The picture should show the location for the supposed Gore tex plate, or Bates website should show it better:
http://www.batesfootwear.com/Catalog/buydetail.asp?IsConfigure=False&ProductID=9387&NavID=2L&SizeTypeID=&BrandId=&NavType=N&OIID=&StyleID=
Seems you got the "special edition." May I know how much you spent for those?

That self-locking feature is a great innovation IMHO, that'd definitely aid me tightening my boots lace in the dark at 5:30am....something I'm still really slow at.
Roller skates (esp. Hypno) have had that feature for years, 'bout time for the boot industry to catch up.



Ha ha - buddy, handshakes work just fine for me.

OK - I see what you mean by the plate. These boots are not Gore-Tex boots, they are meant to be used in the desert and jungle and are extremly breathable and quick drying.

How much did I spend - OK, you may feel bad about this one. They were giving them away to us at the Shot Show - we just had to promise to beat them up and evaluate them for Bates. Yeah - in reality that's why I went SF, for the chick and gear :D

Dan

[That Java Guy]

Not that I know anything, but I think this may be the greatest gear review posted here. Not because the gear itself was reviewed so thoroughly, but because its performance was documented without direct reference to the gear. Great pix, and great posts.

Welcome again to the Board.



Hmmm - "greatest" is a strong word but I think my ego is inflated enough to handle it :cool:

If y'all trat me nice I just may post my Hennessy hammock and Jetboil/Dragonfly reviews here.

Dan

[Bill Harsey]

Hey Dan,
Thanks for the report on the shoes and the great tour.
It's pretty unheard of, in my experience, for shoes (boots) to wear that good on the first outings.
I wish those were around, with caulked soles, when I was logging.

Speaking of logging, it looks like they got it all done in the hills around there.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Sergeant:

Where can I buy a pair of these boots? (Link?)

(Earn your free boots!) LOL

RL

[That Java Guy]

Tell ya what - I have never had boots feel this good right off the bat.


Well - I don't know if you can but them yet but I got 'em from this guy........

Onder Ors
Vice President & General Manager
Bates Uniform Footwear
PH - 616-863-3810
orson@wwwinc.com

Ask him your silly questions :D

Dan

[Mel]

Hey Bill, what did you do as a logger? I was a chokersetter for about 6 years. I got out of the woods a little over 3 years ago when I hooked up with Kifaru. The little woman said 53 was too damn old to be settin' chokers. It was good fun while it lasted. Sorry about the thread hijack Java. :)

Mel

[frostfire]

.
I took them out into the mountains around Vegas a few days ago. 6 mile round trip up to Turtlehead peak. 1900 foot gain in elevation the last 1/3 of it. Mostly scree and gravel with big sandstone boulders and a 40ft wall to climb. Went up with a 55lb Kifaru Zulu on. After getting back down went for a 2 mile run with the pack on.

On a side note, did you encounter any of those notorious mountain lions & were you prepared in case of contact?.... I wonder what that 55lb pack contained?

[That Java Guy]

No lions but I was prepared for them I went hiking with a guy that I could outrun :D

I brought a lot of water (5 L) some chow, a Jetboil stove, MSR titanium Kettle, instant cider and coco, a Kifaru Parahootch, heavyweight wool top and windbreaker, extra socks, panel marker, folding saw, strobe, lighter, Gerber multi tool, cellphone, medi kit, Miox and water filter, camera with extra batteries, space blanket - that's about it I think.

Dan

[magician]

I love this shit.

Do the Parahootch and the hammock, next, brother.

:)

[Sacamuelas]

Java-
I split the thread off to a new thread for your hammock review. It deserved its own thread as it was a very good review. I didn't want it to become lost in this Bates boot thread. :cool:
-Saca



Link to new thread: Review of hammock http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5552

[Bill Harsey]

Good morning Mel, This kind of relates to boots and I'll keep this hijack short (Sorry Java Guy). First, I thought you had that hardened look about you Mel.

I spent 10 seasons logging in the Cascade Mountains of Oregon, this was back when I was a skinny kid at 220 lbs. I wrapped many chokers around logs, mostly on the high lead and skyline sides. This has to be some of the hardest work on the planet. I was a rigging slinger, worked as a high climber and ran cat. I also worked chasing the landing for the high lead and sky line which was a 9 hour a day contest trying to stay out from under flying logs and cables while keeping all the rigging straight.
In the middle of all the above I ran just over two ton of welding rod for that logging operation both in repair and fabrication of components of heavy equipment.

This was my true start in working steel.

Logging boots, we called "corks" or caulked boots cost around 200 dollars and would last about 6 months at best. They hurt like hell to break in, all hard leather construction. Some of the new boots had "squeak heal" in them. Every time the owner stepped down he would squeak from the pain.

This is what caused me to pay attention in Java's thread here. Maybe Java is too tough to notice his feet. I'll find him some logging "shoes" to try out and see if he notices any difference. I doubt it.

[Bill Harsey]

Hey Bill, what did you do as a logger? I was a chokersetter for about 6 years. I got out of the woods a little over 3 years ago when I hooked up with Kifaru. The little woman said 53 was too damn old to be settin' chokers. It was good fun while it lasted. Sorry about the thread hijack Java. :)

Mel
Oh yeah, Your "little woman" is right.

[vsvo]

Thanks, Mr. Harsey. That was a neat glimpse into the logging world.

TJG, great review and pics!

[Prester John]

I'm impressed by what i read. Great review.

Out of curiosity, did you hate your oakley boots? I have a couple pairs i picked up, and i'm not impressed. I was just wondering if these bates boots remedy the SERIOUS problems I have seen in my oakley "Assault Boots".

I'll be on the lookout for these if they are as good as you say. The autolocking lace thing is an awesome idea.

Doug

[Mel]

Java, great review and pics! I wish I coulda stayed out in Vegas a couple more days and went hiking with you. I gotta get me a pair of those Bates and see how they work for me ;) .

Bill, sounds like you did it all in the logging business! Last pair of boots I used while setting chokers, were some caulked Danners from Hoffman Boots in Idaho. I started working with them right out of the box, with no break in, and never had a problem with hot spots or blisters. Great pair of boots, and Hoffman Boots has outstanding customer service.

Mel

[BearFlag]

Java, great review and pics! I wish I coulda stayed out in Vegas a couple more days and went hiking with you. I gotta get me a pair of those Bates and see how they work for me ;) .

Bill, sounds like you did it all in the logging business! Last pair of boots I used while setting chokers, were some caulked Danners from Hoffman Boots in Idaho. I started working with them right out of the box, with no break in, and never had a problem with hot spots or blisters. Great pair of boots, and Hoffman Boots has outstanding customer service.

Mel

Next time you are out here I'd be up for a hike, but only if you loan me an "Express" to play w/ :D

[Bill Harsey]

Java, great review and pics! I wish I coulda stayed out in Vegas a couple more days and went hiking with you. I gotta get me a pair of those Bates and see how they work for me ;) .

Bill, sounds like you did it all in the logging business! Last pair of boots I used while setting chokers, were some caulked Danners from Hoffman Boots in Idaho. I started working with them right out of the box, with no break in, and never had a problem with hot spots or blisters. Great pair of boots, and Hoffman Boots has outstanding customer service.

Mel
Fellow Logger, SIR Mel, No I did not do it all logging. No one wanted me to run shovel (log loader). I'd pick up a big log, start it moving sideways fast and fail to find the swing brakes, hit the 110 foot tower on the yarder and rung it like a bell that could be heard for 10 miles. This caused much bad langauge and no small amount of ill will, especially if someone had to dive off the edge of the landing to keep from getting kilt. I also scattered the whole rigging crew on a couple occasions so they asked me to go do something else.

Danners are the best shoes made for the woods, I couldn't afford them while logging (or so I'd thought) so I bought West Coast boots. You have to be extra tough to have worn those.

[That Java Guy]

Out of curiosity, did you hate your oakley boots? I have a couple pairs i picked up, and i'm not impressed. I was just wondering if these bates boots remedy the SERIOUS problems I have seen in my oakley "Assault Boots".
Doug

No - I don't hate them at all. It's just that they are a super hyped up pair of sneakers with lots of room for improvement. These Bates are the boots for me from now on.

Dan

[zeroalpha]

Anyone know the correct name for these boots?

Ive looked on the Net and find a few options for Bates boots... do they have a particular model / part number Java?

[Bill Harsey]

No lions but I was prepared for them I went hiking with a guy that I could outrun :D


Dan

Dan, That sounds like good thinking and would sure be an unusual test of the shoes.

In Oregon we have a very healthy population of mountain lions. I live in the middle of one of those "population centers" and have the big kitty kitties close to the house on occasion.

After reviewing a few livestock kill scenes by the cats I've noted that they go ahead and kill as much as they want and I suspect they get the fastest ones (sheeps, calves and last year, a young horse) first so they don't get away.

Let the other guy run first to see what the cat does.

[Pattaya]

Where or when are these going on the market? I've looked on the bates footware web site but to no avail.

[Bill Harsey]

Where or when are these going on the market? I've looked on the bates footware web site but to no avail.
Good questions, looks like it's time for someone from Bates to give up some info.

Dan, Did you get a card from someone at Bates?

[That Java Guy]

OK - this is twice, don't expect a third time ;)


Onder Ors
Vice President & General Manager
Bates Uniform Footwear
PH - 616-863-3810
orson@wwwinc.com

Dan

[Bill Harsey]

OK - this is twice, don't expect a third time ;)


Onder Ors
Vice President & General Manager
Bates Uniform Footwear
PH - 616-863-3810
orson@wwwinc.com

Dan

I've already got the other guys around here used to a neanderthal knifemaker...
Thanks and all noted.

[Pattaya]

Thanks for the contact info. I'm on it.

Great pics !!

[Pattaya]

Talked with the guy from Bates and here is what he said:

"Thank you for your interest. The new M-9 Desert Boots we outfitted some
of the SF teams at SHOT were for T&E and we only ran a limited
production. As you noticed the reviews have been exceptional. We will
have our main inventory sometime in mid May"

[PSYOP Rob]

Talked with the guy from Bates and here is what he said:

"Thank you for your interest. The new M-9 Desert Boots we outfitted some
of the SF teams at SHOT were for T&E and we only ran a limited
production. As you noticed the reviews have been exceptional. We will
have our main inventory sometime in mid May"Has anyone bought a pair of these yet? I am thinking of ordering some from botac in California, but am a little leary of ordering them without hearing how they run size wise. Anybody have any new info?

[Prester John]

Mine ran at LEAST a half size big. I got 9's and they have fit guys who wear size 10's WELL. I had to call them back and re-request a pair of 8.5's that fit well with my heavy wools socks.

I am not really a huge fan of them. Maybe it is how I walk, but they seem to put a lot of extra stress on my legs. I always feel like my muscles are much more stressed after using these boots for extended periods.

They are better than my oakley boots because they don't squeek on wet floors, but they don't get a lot of traction either.

One of my Cadre at drill this weekend made several comments after looking them over. He noted they would be very comfortable as truck boots or for PSD guys, but as far as anyone needing a boot for rucking and practical use they were lacking in stability and draining.

Everytime I use them they soak up a lot of sweat and don't dry out except when left overnight.

On the plus side: They are very soft, broke in easily and are VERY light. The lacing system is tits. Some very nice aspects.

These are just my observations with my T&E pair.

[PSYOP Rob]

Thanks, anybody else have the same experiences? How about any feedback on the 5.11 desert boots? Im trying to find a good hot weather desert boot without any gore-tex or sympatex lining as my feet sweat a great deal. Any help would be appreciated.

[zeroalpha]

Ive just ordered a pair of the Bates Desert boots for Eval.

Ill post it up after its completed.

[frostfire]

How about any feedback on the 5.11 desert boots?
perhaps it's time to resurrect this thread?
http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4325&highlight=5.11+boots

[Pattaya]

I just ran a pair through the dirt, catus, and rocks in the NM desert for about a week acting in an OPFOR capacity. (bought them from Botach - online)

Bottom line is that I am extremely happy with them. Even though I was daily picking catctus out of my shins - not one got through the boot.

The only thing I noticed was that there was a very small sole seperation at the toe of the boot from the leather. I was constantly in and out of the prone and kneeling positions though.

Great vibram soles !! Overall, I would buy another pair.

[VelociMorte]

I didn't want to start a whole new thread for boots, so I'll put this here.

Here's my question: What boots would the QPs here recommend for cold-weather wear, where the snow is knee-deep over ankle-twisting rocks?

[safeasmilk]

Thanks, anybody else have the same experiences? How about any feedback on the 5.11 desert boots? Im trying to find a good hot weather desert boot without any gore-tex or sympatex lining as my feet sweat a great deal. Any help would be appreciated.
I always thought that Gore-Tex was a two way membrane.It doesn't let rain in but lets perspiration out.I always buy my boots WITH Gore-Tex because my feet sweat.I drive for a living and am always in the weather,so I've always gone for footwear with G-Tex.
Have I been doing it wrong,or is it just a matter of personal preference?
Thank you.

[The Reaper]

I always thought that Gore-Tex was a two way membrane.It doesn't let rain in but lets perspiration out.I always buy my boots WITH Gore-Tex because my feet sweat.I drive for a living and am always in the weather,so I've always gone for footwear with G-Tex.
Have I been doing it wrong,or is it just a matter of personal preference?
Thank you.

Your definition is correct.

However, boots with GoreTex tend to be hot, as the membrane does not pass moisture out as fast as feet produce it while humping in the field, and if you step in water over the tops, they will fill up and not drain easily.

TR

[Smokin Joe]

I didn't want to start a whole new thread for boots, so I'll put this here.

Here's my question: What boots would the QPs here recommend for cold-weather wear, where the snow is knee-deep over ankle-twisting rocks?

I'm not a QP but...
I would recommend these:
If you are going to be using crampons:
http://www.vasque.com/products/m-alpine-gtx.cfm
or
Any Asolo that will accept crampons.

If you are not going to be using crampons I like these:
http://www.danner.com/geek_specs.asp?id=1783
Danners again (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0005234811478a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnString=_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&hasJS=true&_D%3AhasJS=+&%2Fcabelas%2Fcommerce%2FCabelasCatalogNumberFinder .giftCertificateURL=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Ftemplates%2F giftcertificate%2Fgiftcertificate.jsp%3Fid%3D00055 86990011a%26podId%3D0005586%26catalogCode%3DIB%26n avAction%3Djump%26indexId%3D&_D%3A%2Fcabelas%2Fcommerce%2FCabelasCatalogNumberF inder.giftCertificateURL=+&QueryText=Hunting+Boots&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form21&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=Hunting+Boots&noImage=0&returnPage=search-results1.jsp)
I have friends that swear by these but I have no first hand expericene with the company:
Wolverines (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0009093811544a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnString=_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&hasJS=true&_D%3AhasJS=+&%2Fcabelas%2Fcommerce%2FCabelasCatalogNumberFinder .giftCertificateURL=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Ftemplates%2F giftcertificate%2Fgiftcertificate.jsp%3Fid%3D00055 86990011a%26podId%3D0005586%26catalogCode%3DIB%26n avAction%3Djump%26indexId%3D&_D%3A%2Fcabelas%2Fcommerce%2FCabelasCatalogNumberF inder.giftCertificateURL=+&QueryText=Hunting+Boots&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form21&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=Hunting+Boots&noImage=0&returnPage=search-results1.jsp)

With snow that deep you need gortex pants or tall gaitors I like taking both because gaitors are light and pack easy. You might be able to save your ankles with snow shoes (depending on the density of the snow).

YMMV

[safeasmilk]

Your definition is correct.

However, boots with GoreTex tend to be hot, as the membrane does not pass moisture out as fast as feet produce it while humping in the field, and if you step in water over the tops, they will fill up and not drain easily.

TR
Thanks for explaining that.I never realized that Gore-Tex boots would be hotter.

[rnk779]

I've had a pair(4 years, yeah the same well worn, world traveling pair) of E00924 Men's Bates DuraShocks® 8" Tropical, http://www.batesfootwear.com/Catalog/buydetail.asp?rnd=1482603&NavID=M:B&ProductID=8424&SizeTypeID=M&NavType=undefined
The sole is really tough, the upper is canvas/cordra. I have more boots, goretex lined as well, than Imelda Marcos has shoes, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1173911.stm, these are my choice to take to the field. The steel toe has saved me a couple of times from having a heavy equipment case squish my toes. They dry fast and pack into small spaces. Have I mentioned they are comfortable. I work mostly in hot climates, these might not be great for cold weather. Needless to say when I heard a had an upcoming all expense paid government trip to the desert I ordered the desert version. The Sportsman guide website had them on sale, $59 and fast shipment. http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=140681
I don't get a kickback from any of the companies mentioned, these are just my experiences. Semper Gumby, stay flexible.

[akj1601]

Are the Bates M-9 Assault boots allowed at SFAS? Has anyone used the 8" tropicals by Bates?

[Razor]

Let this one be, folks; I'll handle it. :rolleyes:

[akj1601]

Razor put me in my place and I apologize for wasting space with this dumb-ass question. The search button is a wonderful thing.

[Shark Bait]

Found em here (http://www.botac.com/baasbo1.html) for $79.95 with free shipping.

[Shark Bait]

Damn, looks like my CSM thinks they're too sporty to wear with a uniform. Oh well.

[longtab]

Are the Bates M-9 Assault boots allowed at SFAS? Has anyone used the 8" tropicals by Bates?
Interested in SFAS? Call the recruiter and go. I was in Selection within two weeks of casting a shadow on the doorstep of the SF recruiter's office. He'll give you the approved "latest & greatest" SFAS packing list as you complete the SFAS packet... I wouldn't be concerned if a particular boot is allowed or not. Boots don't make the man... plain old jungle boots have been worn on quite a few feet of SFAS Selectees.

[Gene Econ]

I just ran a pair through the dirt, catus, and rocks in the NM desert for about a week acting in an OPFOR capacity. (bought them from Botach - online) Great vibram soles !! Overall, I would buy another pair.


Mr. 'P':

I was impressed by the original posts on this boot so bought a pair a couple weeks ago through Onlineshoes.com.

I think Bates is on to something with these boots. I can't take any type of insulated boot unless the temp goes below freezing and was worried that these boots would cause too much sweat in temps over forty and rain. However I have been wearing them almost daily for the last week in temps in the mid 50s - 60s with rain and have found them to actually be decent in terms of coolness.

I took a pretty decent tree down by my house over the weekend so abused them considerably with no ill effect. I did note after nine hours of tree removal and splitting that my quads felt like I had done a very heavy squat and dead lift work out. Very unusual for me. I think there is something to a fellows post about them being hard on the legs in terms of balance. Their soles are rugged and quite soft at the same time. Seems my legs are having to move quite a bit to keep balance due to the cushoning of the heel part of these boots and I think this may have something to do with my quads being sore.

However, my feet, knees, and back are so screwed up that any boot that allows me to stay on my feet for ten or twelve hours straight without causing agony in my feet, knees, and back is pretty good IMHO. I finished a nine hour day on a range today without one iota of agony so I am pretty happy with them.

I found the size to be absolutely perfect and they support high arches quite well in fact. My feet wll swell when they get hot so I need boots that may be a bit wider than medium and with round toes. These Bates boots are well designed for my dogs.

I am also surprised at the light weight of these particular boots. They don't make a sound when wet and moving across smooth surfaces. Very innovative. No more embarrassing moments squeeking away while walking across polished floors.

Oh yes, I stepped in a pile of relatively fresh dog ---- with them today so was able to evaluate the ability of the tread to clean out easily. They seem to 'throw' mud like substances pretty efficiently and rinse off with water quite easily. Lugged soles that throw mud or mud like substances indicates good design IMHO.

I am pretty impressed with these boots. May have taken the Army 200 plus years but perhaps they found something for the dogs that actually works.

Gene

[longtab]

Oh man... I just got my new Danner Desert Acadia's extra broke in, I have my Oakley's (2 pr), and Group keeps issuing us the ACU boot likes it going outta style. So now I'm gonna have to order a pair of these and give the old torture test too? Whaddaya think Razor? Test 'em on Bar Camp Trail after a couple Incline iterations?

[Max_Tab]

For extreme cold weather I'd go for these http://www.mgear.com/pages/product/product.asp/imanf/La+Sportiva/idesc/Nuptse+Mountaineering+Boots/level1_id/0/level2_id/0/level3_id/0/item/103676

Anyway's these boots, are good for extreme mountaineering, crampon compatible, plus they have a liner, which if it gets wet, you can pull it out of your boot, and put it in your sleeping bag, to dry. Then the next morning, knock the ice off the outer boot, and put on your dry liners. But they are pretty pricey, so only worth it, if you are going to use them alot.

[Shark Bait]

For extreme cold weather I'd go for these http://www.mgear.com/pages/product/product.asp/imanf/La+Sportiva/idesc/Nuptse+Mountaineering+Boots/level1_id/0/level2_id/0/level3_id/0/item/103676


$515 for boots?? Ouch! I think I'll go with the Bates for $79.95 from Botach.

[Max_Tab]

$515 for boots?? Ouch! I think I'll go with the Bates for $79.95 from Botach.

Like I said, only worth it if you use them alot, or you convince your unit to buy them.

[Team Sergeant]

I wore issued jungles 99% of my career. They wore like iron, dried in no time, and in my opinion they were great to fight (kick and stomp) with. The only down side was I remember was when I worked a staff job they were hard on your legs/feet when constantly on concrete or tile surfaces.

$515 for boots, not in this life time.:rolleyes:

TS

[Guy]

For the last three years...this is what I've been wearing.:lifter

Take care.

[Max_Tab]

I wore issued jungles 99% of my career. They wore like iron, dried in no time, and in my opinion they were great to fight (kick and stomp) with. The only down side was I remember was when I worked a staff job they were hard on your legs/feet when constantly on concrete or tile surfaces.

$515 for boots, not in this life time.:rolleyes:

TS

I have a slightly older model of the ones I posted, they cost 450 dollars at the time. I sure as hell didn't pay for them, luckily I was on a mountain team at the time, and we just had to have them.:D

[Prospect]

I bought a pair of the new Bates boots for my deployment to Afg, and they've held up great. We've only been here about 4 months, but i've had no problems in the construction of them at all. I made a mistake when I chose them (in a bit of a hurry, sadly) and got them a little too big; I have long thin feet, so after wearing them a few hours they tend to expand and I slide around in them a little bit, but I think that was simply a bad sizing judgment on my part. (I do think, however, that they may be better suited to those with wider feet, as the lacing system doesn't go down as far on the foot as the issue "winter" gor-tex boots, so you can't get as tight of a fit on thinner feet.)

One of the first things I noticed right away when I walked in them was how stable they feel; when compared to the issue Bellevilles, the heel is much wider, which feels a little weird at first but is great after you walk in them a bit. As mentioned by a few others earlier, the lacing lock feature works really well, and keeps them from loosening too much after a long day of walking. The boots are super light, and feel almost sneaker-comfortable for wear. Construction is solid, and after beating them up for the last four months in the rocky terrain that prevails over here, I’ve had no problems whatsoever (besides size issue mentioned above, but my fault not the boots). I would buy another pair of these great boots.

Hope this helps someone make an informed decision one way or the other.

[HOLLiS]

Prospect, You might want to try thicker socks (not two pairs). If you can find a flat insole, place it under the boots original insole to raise the foot up. That will reduce the volumne of the boot.

Problem with two pairs of thick socks ( liner and a thick sock is OK) is that they will proportionally enlarge the size of your feet. Our feet don't grow that way. That could effect the way the boot fit to your feet.

Other thing you might doe, is to have a boot fitter pad the tongue of the boot.

[Spook]

Great point Hollis. Fix it from the top of the boot to top of your foot, not bottom of your foot to bottom of the boot. Seems like you'd end up w/a more stable platform that way. Also, I think your feet will transfer more energy to the ground with less between them and the sole.

[Prospect]

The thicker socks idea works fine (i obtained some of the wigwam ingenious socks soon after i got the boots), although ultimately i decided to sell them to one of the guys on my fireteam (at an incredibly reduced price; consequence of me being in too much of a hurry). I plan on obtaining another pair when i get back to the states and am able to size them better. I appreciate the comments/ideas though, good food for thought.

[The Reaper]

As long as they are fitted properly and are appropriate for the environment, boots are probably 30% of the equation. Socks and insoles are probably worth another 10%. Conditioning is more like 60%. I know guys who wear no socks and can start a 25-mile march with newly issued jungle boots, and do just fine.

OTOH, you can Gucci out all you want with $500 boots, $50 insoles, and $20 socks, but if you do not spend the time breaking them in properly and conditioning your feet to the task at hand, at best, you are just wasting money and will be waiting by the road with your blistered feet on fire for the chase vehicle to pick you up. At worst, you will make the rest of your team carry you and you may compromise the mission and get a teammate killed.

Be smart, if you are a student, buy, break in, and train up in what you are told to. If you are a team guy, you should be smart enough (having gotten there) to pick the appropriate gear, prepare it properly (but not till it is worn out), and make sure that your feet are not the weak link. Yes, I have seen guys launch on deployment with brand new boots as well as those trying to squeeze one more mission out of a favorite pair, only to have them fall apart in the boonies. Everyone laughs at them, or curses them, depending on the situation. Don't be that guy.

Remember, what is on your feet doesn't complete the mission. What is inside them does.

TR

[HOLLiS]

As long as they are fitted properly and are appropriate for the environment, boots are probably 30% of the equation. Socks and insoles are probably worth another 10%. Conditioning is more like 60%. I know guys who wear no socks and can start a 25-mile march with newly issued jungle boots, and do just fine.

OTOH, you can Gucci out all you want with $500 boots, $50 insoles, and $20 socks, but if you do not spend the time breaking them in properly and conditioning your feet to the task at hand, at best, you are just wasting money and will be waiting by the road with your blistered feet on fire for the chase vehicle to pick you up. At worst, you will make the rest of your team carry you and you may compromise the mission and get a teammate killed.

Be smart, if you are a student, buy, break in, and train up in what you are told to. If you are a team guy, you should be smart enough (having gotten there) to pick the appropriate gear, prepare it properly (but not till it is worn out), and make sure that your feet are not the weak link. Yes, I have seen guys launch on deployment with brand new boots as well as those trying to squeeze one more mission out of a favorite pair, only to have them fall apart in the boonies. Everyone laughs at them, or curses them, depending on the situation. Don't be that guy.

Remember, what is on your feet doesn't complete the mission. What is inside them does.

TR

The Reaper, I think you nailed the major point. Too many people try to buy the short cut to success/conditioning. There are whole markets that rely on them to make a living.

[Spook]

You're both right. I think too many people in our society today will pay whatever you ask of them for that "BOX-O INSTANT GRATIFICATION", rather than the work-up to success method.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Hey Java Dude:

Links to pics don't work anymore. Want to upload some of them so people can see them?

Thanks!

RL

[Stiletto11]

I just got a pair of the Bates M9's and I found that they do not run large. If you are planning on ordering a pair you will find that most companies offering this boot have them drop shipped from Bates. This could present problems if you have to return them as it will slow down the process. If you take size 11 medium forget getting them until July 06 unless the company you're dealing with has them in stock. I'm lookong forward to taking them to the sand box to see how they hold up. They feel good but I'm not going to critique them until they have had a chance to be tested in the field.

[Roguish Lawyer]

OK, so I'm going to Whistler to ski in a few weeks. I take it that these are adequate snow boots for walking around, and way better than the Oakleys? I thought about getting some snow boots today, then thought I should just wear these. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

[MtnGoat]

$515 for boots?? Ouch! I think I'll go with the Bates for $79.95 from Botach.


When your walking in 3 to 4 different envoriments you what you pay for. Price makes the difference.

From MAX TABs know so well. If you have a good 18C on your Tm; he'll get just about anything. Do you memos or your CARPs and you'll get just about anything.

[ccrn]

I have a few buds here that are wearing the Bates M9 and the oakleys.

They both seem to hold up under moderate use (no long rucking etc) for about 6-7 months. Ive seen quite a few guys wearing the Converse too.

We have a Lt that just busted a sole on his Oakleys after 9 months including MOB. Theyre still wearable.

Ive been wearing the Wellco desert style jungle boot which have been holding up outstandingly. Only prob is theyre not the most comfortable as the soles seem paper thin. Some guys have had them resoled on leave with the ripple soles and love them.

I think Ill try the Bates M6 or the Converse Persuit just for fun, then write a review at the end of tour.

Im thinking for hard use the Wellco jungle style desert boot with ripple soles is probably the best for hard use over here. They come in half sizes and narrow widths too-

[The Reaper]

The jungle boots, including the issue ones, have no cushion in the sole at all.

Drop a set of Superfeet or better yet, the Sole Footbeds in and get a decent pair of socks like the Ingenius and they are great.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

[Roguish Lawyer]

OK, so I'm going to Whistler to ski in a few weeks. I take it that these are adequate snow boots for walking around, and way better than the Oakleys? I thought about getting some snow boots today, then thought I should just wear these. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

I would be grateful if someone from 10th Group could answer the above stupid question. :)

[Slantwire]

Drop a set of Superfeet or better yet, the Sole Footbeds in and get a decent pair of socks like the Ingenius and they are great.

Haven't tried the Sole inserts (yet). I'm a big fan of Superfeet. Gave my mom a pair for Christmas last year, she thinks they're better than the perscription orthotics she used to use.

[ccrn]

The jungle boots, including the issue ones, have no cushion in the sole at all.

Drop a set of Superfeet or better yet, the Sole Footbeds in and get a decent pair of socks like the Ingenius and they are great.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

Sir,
Thank you for the advice-

[TFM]

Does anyone have any advice on REALLY good cold weather boots?
TFM

[MtnGoat]

Does anyone have any advice on REALLY good cold weather boots?
TFM


Good Cold weather boots.. Well what will you be doing and what is your price range too. Your active(s) will drive which kind to get. :munchin

[Roguish Lawyer]

Does anyone have any advice on REALLY good cold weather boots?
TFM

Try the search button.

[TFM]

Good Cold weather boots.. Well what will you be doing and what is your price range too. Your active(s) will drive which kind to get. :munchin
I need a combat boot that can keep your feet warm in the snow and on the ice. Cost is not an issue because replacement limbs will be much more expensive, although the Army would be the one to pay. I've tried lots of cold weather gear that did not actually work. Experience with the product is what I'm looking for as online searches don't tell you if they really work in sub-zero environments.

Thanks in advance,

TFM

[Renee]

I wanted to thank Java for originally posting this boot review. As with everyone else I have found the boots to be extremely comfortable from day 1, though I transitioned from jungles so perhaps it's not a good comparison. The only thing I would disagree with some on is that this boot seems fairly warm, which is good in the Oregon fall/winter/spring moderate climate or at higher altitudes in the summer but I'm not sure I will want to wear this boot in hot weather. I think I will want a cooler boot or one that breaths more freely for that. I will proably switch back to my jungles for summer low altitude jaunts. I would be interested in hearing any feedback from people who have worn them in 80F or above temps.

Overall (and for the price), I have had no issues with wear over hilly terrain with a 60 lb ruck (and some asphault, too) or foot warmth/dryness in the moderate rainy climate here. Thanks again, Java.

Renee

[Renee]

...If you are planning on ordering a pair you will find that most companies offering this boot have them drop shipped from Bates. This could present problems if you have to return them as it will slow down the process. If you take size 11 medium forget getting them until July 06 unless the company you're dealing with has them in stock. ...

I ordered mine through a local boot shop that sells Wolverine (since Bates is made by Wolverine) so I could get the sizing right. They did not carry them in store but they could order them. I then had a real person to go through incase anything was not right. This may not help you if youre outside CONUS, though.

Renee

[MtnGoat]

I need a combat boot that can keep your feet warm in the snow and on the ice. Cost is not an issue because replacement limbs will be much more expensive, although the Army would be the one to pay. Experience with the product is what I'm looking for as online searches don't tell you if they really work in sub-zero environments.

TFM sorry for the long post, didn't see this one.

Well, TFM were are you Operating, I mean altitude wise. That can drive what you need. If the Army is covering the bill I would go high end. But What type of area, environment, WX you going to be using them in will drive what I would get.

Let me know.

VG

[MtnGoat]

Does anyone have any advice on REALLY good cold weather boots?
TFM

RL - Sorry I didn't find a Tread for Cold Boots.

TFM

IMHO if the money isn't coming from your pocket then go hit end. Look TFM, It really depends on what your going to be doing in them. SO I need that kind of info to drive in the kind I would get.

But MATF is the LHOTSE (now LHOTSE GTX (http://www.sportiva.com/products/prod/236)) by La Sportiva. They are to me the best all around mountain boot. Covered on page 4 within this tread. PM MAX TAB about his use of them in the Mtn OPS for more Options. I like them because if you looking for some that can work in both flat land at no more than 70/80 Deg to (-) 70 Deg than this boot will do it. Wet, Cold, Snow, Ice (crampons too) to mud. This is for Mountain OPS, you can live in them for sometime. There a soft but hard boot.

Also here is a site (HANWAG (http://www.hanwag.co.uk/acatalog/hanwag.html)) that will give you an idea of what style or kind of boot you should be looking at or for. It breaks down the boot type by the styles, this company if great. UK and the boots are pretty much handmade. So it can take some time to get them, but no more than any other. When I got some boots from the at that time they didn't do the GPC, we had to use an International Money Order. Just email or call them, they do mil/giv sale.

ASOLO (http://www.asolo.com/default.asp?l=3)are other good boot I have. I have the TPS 520 GV, not the best if you run into a little bit of snow and Temps under 15 Degs. Their just like the Raichle (http://www.raichle.ch/raichle/index.asp?sprache=english&sid=2&lid=0)Yatna IIs IMO. Raichles are great trekking/hiking style boots. But not really great or good for mountain OPS in really cold wet/snowy areas. Love them both, but they both have there problems. See Kit Tips > Professional Gear > Raichle or Asolo? Tread for there info differences.

Another good place for buy or look at gear is Mountain Gear (www.mgear.com). Look that site over they have some good information too.

Without know what you kind of terrain your going into and what your doing I can only provide this. So let me know, PM and I'll Post what I can for others.

[TFM]

The specs on these have caught my eye. Really I wish they made the second boot in desert color.


Matterhorn 4949 Gore-Tex 200 Gram Thinsulate Desert Tan Boots
http://workingperson.com/products/22_34_38/1/2291/Matterhorn_4949_Gore-Tex_200_Gram_Thinsulate_Desert_Tan_Boots.html

Matterhorn 9800 Waterproof and 200 Gram Insulated Black Boot
http://workingperson.com/products/22_34_38/1/2242/Matterhorn_9800_Waterproof_and_200_Gram_Insulated_ Black_Boot.html

DESERT TFX 8"
http://www.danner.com/products.asp?catid=12&prodid=2234

[Roguish Lawyer]

So I bought a pair of these back around the time the thread started. The soles just completely disintegrated on me, after fairly minimal usage. Normal with the age?

:munchin

[JJ_BPK]

So I bought a pair of these back around the time the thread started. The soles just completely disintegrated on me, after fairly minimal usage. Normal with the age?

:munchin

Sounds like a wiener.
Purchased in 2005
Good for 12 years..

Can you still spit shine them??

:munchin

[PSM]

My M-9s are the most comfortable footwear I've ever owned. My only complaint is the thin laces and eyelets.