Social Impact of Wuhan Virus

[Penn]

Multi threads on this outrageous assault on western civilization are needed, and is obvious to anyone with a social science background, there is so much to analysis. But, make no mistake, this will alter our society in the extreme. That said, the social fabric that hold a society together is the common value system, belief system, political, etc., etc, could be lost to a sever break in civility.

In moo, this a target collapse on fragile system, studied, while holding all the resources hostage due to shortsighted globalist ideals. The long game and a brilliant execution, how to respond, or if the will exist to do so.

It's only going to get worse.

https://www.jpost.com/International/Israeli-doctor-in-Italy-We-no-longer-help-those-over-60-621856

[5thgrp"C"]

Maybe?

Data from NYC shows no deaths in the 0-40 yr old range, and the city accounts for 1/3 of our Country's cases.

What if this continues until mid-late summer and then through herd immunity it peters out? Everyone comes out of their homes and the world continues without the unhealthiest/unluckiest 1%?

Everyone that has the disease today has the possibility to be back on their feet in 2 weeks. So work might not have to stop completely.

I'm not saying it can't go bad but there are no right answers in an unpredictable situation. With 8 billion people all focused on the same target we have to have some affect on this thing. Add to that the level of education, technology, communications, and organization our entire World possesses and we have never had a better chance to minimize the damage of this bug.

[WarriorDiplomat]

Maybe?

Data from NYC shows no deaths in the 0-40 yr old range, and the city accounts for 1/3 of our Country's cases.

What if this continues until mid-late summer and then through herd immunity it peters out? Everyone comes out of their homes and the world continues without the unhealthiest/unluckiest 1%?

Everyone that has the disease today has the possibility to be back on their feet in 2 weeks. So work might not have to stop completely.

I'm not saying it can't go bad but there are no right answers in an unpredictable situation. With 8 billion people all focused on the same target we have to have some affect on this thing. Add to that the level of education, technology, communications, and organization our entire World possesses and we have never had a better chance to minimize the damage of this bug.

We are talking of the bigger picture not the virus itself but the response to it that has just opened up a massive weakness in western culture that is prime for exploitation.....watch the markets and wonder if Chinese business interests are buying stock and so on and so on.....if this isn't it.....it is the perfect primer for a dramatic shift of world power

[5thgrp"C"]

I would argue this is the perfect situation for the strong to get stronger. In this universal turmoil the U.S. has the best odds to come out the furthest ahead.

[Paslode]

That said, the social fabric that hold a society together is the common value system, belief system, political, etc., etc, could be lost to a sever break in civility.

The social fabric was already stretched thin along political/ideaological lines, and Corona Virus seems to fall along those lines as well. The reason I say this is because I was shamed :D on a neighborhood app for suggesting that the lack of N95's and Test Kits might have something to do with red tape, bureaucracy and the FDA, and that the US has had 44 years to prepare for a pandemic. On top of that Libs I work for overwhelmingly fault Trump for any of the shortages due to Corona, many also believe that Medicare for All would solve this crisis and most believe in government intervention.....they parrot CNN talking points. On the other hand Conservatives are discussing numbers, making comparisons and don't believe anyone could be totally prepared for an unknown like Corona.

Now we are on a 30 day lock down and all the stores are rationing. Everybody I have run into is in good spirits, we'll see were we are in 3-4.

[Penn]

5thGrp"C"
I would argue this is the perfect situation for the strong to get stronger. In this universal turmoil the U.S. has the best odds to come out the furthest ahead.


This is not about strength, its power to execute a strategy. imo, that has been executed by the Chinese they are in control, we are reacting to a situation, a negative by any standard.

EDIT TO ADD: this is Congresswoman AOC Tweet today, do not think for moment these events and discourse are not connected:

One enormous, major lesson that I hope people realize in this moment:

Resistance to revolutionary policy was never really about a lack of money, or capacity, or logistics.

It was always about power and a lack of political will.


4:52 PM · Mar 20, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
23K Retweets 102.2K Likes

[tonyz]

This event does create the potential for massive shifts in power, policies, wealth and yes ethics as both Penn and WarriorDiplomat have observed. VDH shares some observations on these matters.

There should be no doubt now, that we need to bring manufacturing home (Trump has said this from day 1) and then hold China accountable both publicly and privately.

This economic shutdown is a high wire act that we must not lose and yes we are reacting. However, as 5thgrp”c” just suggested - the US is potentially positioned to be much stronger after this event.

Will Italy ever trust China again ? Should the EU? Never. Communists have a tendency to treat life very cheaply...and the chicoms are no different despite their cheap labor, cheap products and cheap loans. Fuck ‘em - they are parasites that will kill the host in a heartbeat. They have been exposed on the world stage for what they are to any thinking person. Now, we need to get this country back to work as soon as we can !

China Boomeranging

Victor Davis Hanson
National Review
3/17/2020

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/coronavirus-china-response-will-weaken-it-on-world-stage/

Its bad behavior in the wake of COVID-19 will leave it in its weakest global position in memory. And the U.S. will emerge stronger.


Sometime in late November the Chinese Communist Party apparat was aware that the ingredients of some sort of an epidemic were brewing in Wuhan. Soon after, it was also clear to them that a new type of coronavirus was on the loose, a threat they might have taken more seriously given the similar Chinese origins of the prior toxic SARS coronavirus and the resources of a Level 4 virology lab nearby.
Yet the government initially hid all that knowledge from its own people in particular and in general from the world at large. Translated into American terms, that disingenuousness ensured that over 10,000 Chinese nationals and foreigners living in China flew every day on direct flights into the United States (Washington and California especially) from late November to the beginning of February, until the Trump travel ban of January 31.

All this laxity was also known to the Communist apparat in Beijing, which must have been amused when Trump was roundly damned by his liberal critics as a xenophobe and racist for finally daring to stop the influx on January 31 — the first major leader to enact such a total ban.

Yet, no thanks to the Chinese, America, so far, has been comparatively lucky — despite the grave risks of damaging a multi-trillion-dollar economy with the strictest quarantining, isolation policies, and social distancing in its history. Half the country lives in the interior away from ports of entry on the coasts. Medical care, sanitation, hygiene, and meat markets operate on different premises than in China, the supposed fated global hegemon. Transparency in a consensual society together with a free-market economy is encouraging tens of millions of citizens to work in tandem and independently to figure out creative ways to ameliorate the epidemic, politically, medically, socially, and economically. The result is that as of mid-March, the U.S., the world’s foremost immigration destination and among the most visited of nations, had suffered fewer virus fatalities than some European countries a fifth or sixth of its population size.

No doubt when mass testing begins, the figures of known cases will soar, and fatalities will rise. Yet while we know pretty well the number of Americans who have died from the virus, we have in truth little idea of how many now carry it or how many have recovered from it, without knowing what sickened them or even whether they were ostensibly sick at all. In other words, the rate of new cases identified by testing may exceed the rate of new deaths, apprising us of a more precise — and perhaps lower — degree of viral toxicity.

Whereas annual flu toxicity is adjudicated by modeling case numbers, and by sophisticated and learned guesses at the number of likely infections, so far the death rate of the coronavirus is calibrated a bit differently — apparently predicated both on known deaths and known cases. When we make facile comparisons between the flu and coronaviruses, they may prove valid, but for now it’s still wise to remember that annual flu cases could be fewer than what is guessed at through modeling each year, and corona infections may be higher than the current known numbers of confirmed positives. The former reality might mean that the flu is at times a little more lethal than we think and the corona virus a little less deadly. That is not to suggest that most strains of flu are as lethal as the coronavirus, only that for the vast majority of Americans the current U.S. COVID-19 case-to-fatality ratio of 2 percent may eventually prove less, and influenza’s commonly cited 0.01 lethality rate may prove higher. In any case, 98–99 percent of Americans may well recover from the coronavirus — a rate that is not typical of most of history’s plagues.

The realities are paradoxical: If the coronavirus infects as many Americans as an average flu strain, then ten times more Americans could die — mostly over the age of 65 — even as the vast majority of all Americans will not. Statistics change hourly, but the CDC as of the afternoon of March 16 reports that there are currently 3,437 cases of known coronavirus infections and 68 deaths attributed to the virus, or about two deaths per 100 infected — the majority of them again likely over 65.

To the degree that we are suffering death and economic hurt from COVID-19, we can also attribute the toll to the Chinese Communist Party. Had it just called in the international medical community in late November, instituted early quarantines, and allowed its own citizens to use email and social media to apprise and warn others of the new disease, then the world and the U.S. would probably not have found themselves in the current panic. The reasons China did not act more responsibly may be inherent in communist governments, or they may involve more Byzantine causes left to be disclosed.

Add in the proximity of a Level 4 virology lab nearby Ground Zero of COVID-19, which fueled Internet conspiracy theories; the weird rumors about quite strange animals such as snakes and pangolins birthing the infection in primeval open meat markets stocked with live animals in filthy conditions in cages; and pirated videos of supposed patients dropping comatose in crowded hospital hallways. With all of that, we had the ingredients of a Hollywood zombie movie, adding to the frenzy.

Plus, 2020 is an election year — echoing how the 1976 swine flu was politicized. The Left and its media appendages saw COVID-19 as able to do what John Brennan, James Clapper, James Comey, and Andrew McCabe, the Mueller team, and impeachment could not: destroy the hated Trump presidency.

China will rue what it begat.

That is, it will come to appreciate fully that the supposed efficiency, ruthlessness, and autocracy of the Communist Party — what had so impressed foolish American journalists who once marveled at Beijing’s ability to enact by fiat liberal pet projects such as high-speed rail and solar industries — were China’s worst enemies, ensuring that the virus would spread and that China’s international reputation would be ruined.

The coronavirus could be the straw that breaks the proverbial back of the Chinese camel, stooped under the recent weight of a trade war with the U.S., the revelation of 1 million Uighurs in reeducation camps, the crackdown on Hong Kong democracy protesters, and news of the sprawling Chinese internal-surveillance apparat. The world is now both terrified and put off by China, and such anathemas will only harm its already suspect and misbegotten Silk Road neocolonial schemes.

Here in the U.S., COVID-19 will create bipartisan pressure to adopt policies of keeping key U.S. industries — such as medical supplies, pharmaceuticals, and military applied high-tech — in America. Americans will not again wish to outsource the vast majority of their chemotherapy-drug, antibiotic, and heart-medicine production to a government that cannot be trusted and that sees such globalized output as a weapon to be used in extremis.

Although we cannot see it now, spin-off effects from the panic and frenzy will eventually fuel more economic recovery. Oil prices are nearing record modern lows, ensuring cheap gas for spring and summer American drivers. Cheap mortgages and car loans likewise will spur buying, as will relief once the virus wanes and splurging ensue.

It will be salutary for Americans to once again appreciate the value of muscular labor, as those who grow food, transport it, and provide us energy and sanitation while protecting us from danger, foreign and domestic, have allowed millions of Americans to stay home, sequestered and quarantined but safe with plenty of food, water, and uninterrupted sanitation and public safety. In these days of crisis, we should not forget that millions of often unmentioned Americans have made us the world’s greatest energy and most diverse food producer — a singular position that China, with over four times our population, envies.

Before the outbreak, China was trying to game its trade war in terms of how best to hurt the hated Trump administration. Ironically, its abhorrence only strengthened the U.S. in ways no one in the pre-COVID-19 days could have imagined.

Call it paradox, irony, karma, or even tragedy, but China emerges from its deceit about the coronavirus outbreak in its weakest position since its Westernization began under Deng Xiaoping. And the U.S., after some rocky months ahead, if it stays calm, will likely reemerge in its strongest state in memory vis-à-vis its rivals.

[Penn]

TonyZ, imo we are way pass all that shit. If I were them, I be cocking the trigger.

A pathogen controls the political world right now, the world over every political figure is scared shitless. Find a picture of Merkel, There one of Trump that is very telling, then find one of Jinpeng, its smug.

Also, the virus has been particularly evident in the growing devastation in Europe, North America, we are just awaking to the fact that the Chinese own us.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Penn, you are wrong.

China owns Walmart, Walmart does not own America! Walmart is an American business that can change how it does business and who it gets product from.

If the FCC shut down all mass media tonight, except for official public radio and public broadcasting after a brief 24 hours of mass panic things would settle down a lot over the next 72 hours.

The “social” impact of this is being fanned for purely political reasons and it part of a continuing scorched earth policy.

[tonyz]

Penn the pathogen is serious - but reportedly 80+% survive and come out ok (less than 3% die - while very serious it should not create the panic this is creating) If it were like Ebola then yes, especially if they have a vaccine - they win. But that is not the case here.

If we don’t kill our own economy (or healthcare system) ourselves I do believe that we should come out the other side - but not without a tragic and wholly unnecessary loss of life (and big hopefully short-term hit to our economy)- loss of life (and economic hardship) because of the Chinese Communist Party.

The Chicoms have been laid bare on the public stage - this may be a Chicom opportunity - but moo given the survivability of this pathogen - this is not their time, yet.

If we are smart they will never own us again. Based on China’s actions during this event - the EU should curtail business relations with China going forward. That could result in additional opportunity for the US.

For the Chicoms and our other adversaries they are undoubtedly observing and plotting - it’s the next evolution that will be for all the marbles.

[WarriorDiplomat]

I would argue this is the perfect situation for the strong to get stronger. In this universal turmoil the U.S. has the best odds to come out the furthest ahead.

I think you are missing the point here the western societies are the ones in turmoil not so much the Russians or Chinese

[WarriorDiplomat]

Penn, you are wrong.

China owns Walmart, Walmart does not own America! Walmart is an American business that can change how it does business and who it gets product from.

Yes of course it but the U.S. political response to the tariffs on China to slow its intellectual theft etc....was an indicator of how in love America is with cheap Chinese knock offs especially those sold at Walmart

If the FCC shut down all mass media tonight, except for official public radio and public broadcasting after a brief 24 hours of mass panic things would settle down a lot over the next 72 hours.

Not so sure the leftists have still not settled down since 2016....there is political maneuvering taking advantage of this opportunity as we speak

The “social” impact of this is being fanned for purely political reasons and it part of a continuing scorched earth policy.

The social impact is being fanned and it is real the politicians are reacting to avoid political suicide in the face of this...initially it was reasonable but the opportunities are too good to ignore and they are starting to seize them...the social impact of the governed in this situation is perfect for power shifts being it is out of our hands as the government has a responsibility to act to protect us and therefore have total power over the governed as consent is irrelevant at this time. Also lets remember that any publicly traded company is fair game as far as I know under the SEC rules especially in todays global economic scheme right now the response of the government on the economy has created openings for a dramatic shift in economic power which equals world power especially when it comes to owning resources

[Old Dog New Trick]

Okay all so here’s a question.

How much control China has over America and the American psyche?

What happened when one “coach” took a position to “tweeted” support for Honk Kong protesters during the NBA International joint games in mainland China? (Immediate condemnations from everyone including the players bought and paid for by the Chinese.)

Here’s the question: What was the first national sports organization to shutter its courts and close the public access to games before abandoning the season all together? *

Bonus question: which athletes had Coronavirus before anyone else?

* not a single whimper from the players.

[WarriorDiplomat]

Okay all so here’s a question.

How much control China has over America and the American psyche?

What happened when one “coach” took a position to “tweeted” support for Honk Kong protesters during the NBA International joint games in mainland China? (Immediate condemnations from everyone including the players bought and paid for by the Chinese.)

Here’s the question: What was the first national sports organization to shutter its courts and close the public access to games before abandoning the season all together?

Bonus question: which athletes had Coronavirus before anyone else?

It isn't the control it has it is the response of western society propagated by the medias sensationalism and the resulting outcome from this.......it was an accidental release and the response was unexpected is possible.....the intentional release and the same result and response was a unexpected reaction....or this was a recce by fire scenario.....no matter how you look at it the response and current chaos is the issue as much as the virus. Case in point the media is doing a great job of spreading fear and panic just today they reported 32,000 reported cases so I went to the CDC for its most current and they say 15,000+....the culture of western society has just shown its soft underbelly to an opposing ideology

[PSM]

Heard today from RVing friends who recently moved to the south of France to be with the wife's ailing father. To go anywhere, even to walk the dog, they have to fill out and print a government form explaining why they are on the streets. They also have to have valid ID on them. Failure to do this incurs an 375 Euro fine. Again, they live in a small village in the south.

[Flagg]

I think you are missing the point here the western societies are the ones in turmoil not so much the Russians or Chinese

It does depend on the definition or category of turmoil.

I strongly suspect the Russians are going to be hurting badly too.

Their government budget cashflow has been vapourized(circa 50-75%) with the collapse of OPEC price control.

They have, at best, 2 years foreign national reserves to cover loss of government budget.

Too soon to tell on Chinese economic re-start.

But China and Russia foreign policy will be 100% incongruent when it comes to energy policy.

Warning: infantry talking Econ.

[Paslode]

It isn't the control it has it is the response of western society propagated by the medias sensationalism and the resulting outcome from this.......it was an accidental release and the response was unexpected is possible.....the intentional release and the same result and response was a unexpected reaction....or this was a recce by fire scenario.....no matter how you look at it the response and current chaos is the issue as much as the virus. Case in point the media is doing a great job of spreading fear and panic just today they reported 32,000 reported cases so I went to the CDC for its most current and they say 15,000+....the culture of western society has just shown its soft underbelly to an opposing ideology



The 30k plus number you heard, is a number being reported by CNN, the John Hopkins Tracking Corona Virus Map and sites like Worldmeters.info. The John Hopkins Map is said to be in "Real Time". Reminds me of the polling data and interactive maps from the 2016 election.


Sources for the John Hopkins Map:

What are the sources of data informing the dashboard?

The data sources include the World Health Organization, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the European Center for Disease Prevention and Control, the National Health Commission of the People’s Republic of China, local media reports, local health departments, and the DXY, one of the world’s largest online communities for physicians, health care professionals, pharmacies and facilities.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map-faq.html

Another website livescience.com as 3/22/2020 was reporting ABOUT 26,747 confirmed cases in the US.

The University of Minnesota has list of interactive maps:

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/maps-visuals

Running through the list there are 3 groups and these groups are reporting numbers of cases in the US as 30k Plus, 20k plus or 15k plus.

CNN reported the "Grim Milestone" of over 32,000 confirmed cases yesterday, but gave no source for the number. CNN also report the number of conformed cases in NY was over 15k.

To put things into perspective, the "Grim Milsteone" of 32k plus of confirmed in the US is not even close to 1% of the population. The 15k plus of confirmed cases in New York is far below 1% of the state population, in fact all the numbers being reported in each individual state are all far below 1% of the State's population. In the Great State of Kansas, the KDHE reports 975 deaths due to Influenza and Pneumonia, and 2 deaths from the Corona virus. Gov. Kelly (D) is officially shutting down at least 2 counties, Johnson and Wyandotte for 30days beginning tomorrow, in a State with 65 confirmed cases (I thought there were no tests?) and 2 deaths.

[frostfire]

Will Italy ever trust China again ? Should the EU? Never. Communists have a tendency to treat life very cheaply...and the chicoms are no different despite their cheap labor, cheap products and cheap loans. Fuck ‘em - they are parasites that will kill the host in a heartbeat. They have been exposed on the world stage for what they are to any thinking person. Now, we need to get this country back to work as soon as we can !


Not so fast. I am given daily update on China's soft power projection in the wake of devastation in the EU and everywhere else. China sent respirators, ventilators, masks, testing kits, and even doctors to Italy and various hard-hit areas. So far, at least in my own research, not word on similar move by US.

Between this and the twitter spread of US troops starting COVID in wuhan :rolleyes:, China is doing its best to turn the narrative around.
Time will tell if they are successful, but we may be helping them unintentionally.

[tonyz]

True, China sent stuff to Italy, but China has to protect its sizable investment in Italy (see JJ’s post regarding this in other threads). China was into Italy - big time.

In all fairness, we are months behind China in this - thanks to China.

China is, as usual, using its propaganda arm to deflect from its own culpability.

[Old Dog New Trick]

True, China sent stuff to Italy, but China has to protect its sizable investment in Italy (see JJ’s post regarding this in other threads). China was into Italy - big time.

In all fairness, we are [months] years behind China in this - thanks to [China] the last three US administrations starting with Clinton.

China is, as usual, using its propaganda arm to deflect from its own culpability.

Fixed that for you. ;)

Beginning with Clinton in the 90s the globalization of China unabated by US foreign policy in SEA the Pacific and elsewhere into parts west until buying up large amounts of EU debt China has been a destabilizing force around the world for the past three decades - at least.

ETA: re paragraph one: my wife just got finished reading a Thai news source where a Thai-Chinese doctor working with a team sent to Milan by China to help out reports that Italy’s continued outbreak and high infection and death toll resulted from them not changing their cultural norms even after the country was reporting very high rates of infection. Specifically - they continued going out to pubs, restaurants and social meetings and continued greeting each other with hugs, kisses and handshakes.

[tonyz]

Thanks ODNT.

The following might provide some additional insight into the depth of China’s influence in Europe.

The EU was becoming uncomfortable with China prior to the China Virus.

After the pandemic - sparked by China...well...I’ll be as polite as I can...Fuck China.

On China’s Expanding Influence in Europe and Eurasia

PHILIPPE LE CORREMAY 09, 2019TESTIMONY: TESTIMONY BEFORE THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE
Source:

https://carnegieendowment.org/2019/05/09/on-china-s-expanding-influence-in-europe-and-eurasia-pub-79094

[tonyz]

On China protecting its investment in Italy.

The China Virus should divide the EU generally and Italy specifically from China.

If I set your house aflame...its crumbling, burning down...thousands are dying... but eventually I send a couple of firemen...should you trust me ‘cause I sent a couple firemen ? You better believe I want America to beat China over the head with this.

“Many analysts say Beijing is also seeking to divide the EU, which is concerned with a rising China. These divisions were apparent even within the Italian government. The powerful interior minister, Matteo Salvini, questioned the deal, and his party successfully pushed for a watered-down version that limits Chinese involvement in telecommunications and other sensitive areas.”

China’s Belt and Road Gets a Win in Italy
By Andrew Chatzky
March 27, 2019

https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/chinas-belt-and-road-gets-win-italy

[WarriorDiplomat]

The 30k plus number you heard, is a number being reported by CNN, the John Hopkins Tracking Corona Virus Map and sites like Worldmeters.info. The John Hopkins Map is said to be in "Real Time". Reminds me of the polling data and interactive maps from the 2016 election.


Sources for the John Hopkins Map:



https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map-faq.html

Another website livescience.com as 3/22/2020 was reporting ABOUT 26,747 confirmed cases in the US.

The University of Minnesota has list of interactive maps:

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/maps-visuals

Running through the list there are 3 groups and these groups are reporting numbers of cases in the US as 30k Plus, 20k plus or 15k plus.

CNN reported the "Grim Milestone" of over 32,000 confirmed cases yesterday, but gave no source for the number. CNN also report the number of conformed cases in NY was over 15k.

To put things into perspective, the "Grim Milsteone" of 32k plus of confirmed in the US is not even close to 1% of the population. The 15k plus of confirmed cases in New York is far below 1% of the state population, in fact all the numbers being reported in each individual state are all far below 1% of the State's population. In the Great State of Kansas, the KDHE reports 975 deaths due to Influenza and Pneumonia, and 2 deaths from the Corona virus. Gov. Kelly (D) is officially shutting down at least 2 counties, Johnson and Wyandotte for 30days beginning tomorrow, in a State with 65 confirmed cases (I thought there were no tests?) and 2 deaths.

I get it but of the official sites to choose from they choose the most inflated.....this is an age old trick for maximum impact and speaks to the political maneuvering supported by a complicit media

[GratefulCitizen]

One big area of social impact may be the waning of third wave feminism.
How many of those "strong independent women who don't need no man" will suddenly recalculate?

[JJ_BPK]

Fixed that for you. ;)

reports that Italy’s continued outbreak and high infection and death toll resulted from them not changing their cultural norms even after the country was reporting very high rates of infection.

Specifically - they continued going out to pubs, restaurants and social meetings and continued greeting each other with hugs, kisses and handshakes.

My daughter talked to her father-in-law in Naples yesterday. He is 77yo and like most VFOGs, a bit of a butt head.

The fear is real now. People are very concerned. No food shortages or other commodities. BUT

One of the EU's "problems" is most families live in small flats and have very small kitchens that lack space for more than a day or two's perishables. So they shop daily. They also are more inclined to shop fresh everything and avoid frozen because of refrigeration constraints.

Also, They eat out frequently for the same reasons..

In the summer it gets HOT and 99.9% don't have AC..

This exacerbates the problem of human contact and viral spread.

If you haven't been there in a while. Here is a small (800 sq ft) flat in Naples for 500,000 EU. It is a problem at all levels of the social spectrum.

https://www.gate-away.com/property_detail.php?id=360210

[Old Dog New Trick]

JJ

I hope they are well and avoid this. Prayers out.

Italy as with most of Europe and that entire continent lacks genuine medical infrastructure like we have here in the USA or Japan, and other newer first world countries. Outside of Rome, Milan, Naples or other large metropolitan centers they are likely to not have more than a 50 bed hospital for a 100,000 more or less population or 50 remote villages. They rely on small clinics and doctors that do house calls. They also die at home surrounded by family.

It’s apples and oranges to compare us to anyone else and no one is going to be able to do what China did in a matter of weeks to build hardened isolating facilities. (Or death chambers covered for satellite protection)

[JJ_BPK]

JJ

I hope they are well and avoid this. Prayers out.

Italy as with most of Europe and that entire continent lacks genuine medical infrastructure like we have here in the USA



Thanks,,

Au contraire mon frère

They have the Superior FREE Social Medicine System, while us retards continue to think an open market for-profit medical system is good.

[GratefulCitizen]

Social impacts may include a significant long term increase in homeschooling and telecommuting.
These could, in turn, greatly affect where people choose to live.

Where people choose to live will affect tax bases for state and local jurisdictions.

[Razor]

One of the EU's "problems" is most families live in small flats and have very small kitchens that lack space for more than a day or two's perishables. So they shop daily. They also are more inclined to shop fresh everything and avoid frozen because of refrigeration constraints. Also, They eat out frequently for the same reasons.

That sounds a lot like NYC, Boston, LA, San Fran, and a host of other large, dense, urban areas in the US.

[Old Dog New Trick]

That sounds a lot like NYC, Boston, LA, San Fran, and a host of other large, dense, urban areas in the US.

Which makes transmission spread happen rather quickly (á la cruise ship with with 4,200 pax and crew practicing bad social behavior during quarantine/isolation.)

I’ll still standby my argument that a vast majority of known/reported cases will recover without medical intervention and triage needs to remain a critical factor in who goes to the hospital and who goes home to their bedroom.

[JJ_BPK]

That sounds a lot like NYC, Boston, LA, San Fran, and a host of other large, dense, urban areas in the US.

exactly, follow the infection numbers. I read this AM that the CDC or FEMA has stopped publishing location at city address level so you can't see the epicenters :mad:

[Ret10Echo]

Virginia Governor announces schools for remainder of the school year - (what happens to graduating Seniors)

West Virginia Governor issues [unenforceable] "Stay at Home" Order

Maryland Governor issues non-essential business closure notice

[Old Dog New Trick]

I just did a google area search for “hospitals with ICU” for comparison reasons it first selected my location Houston, TX the page is covered with red tags - TNTC. Scroll over to northern Italy and “search area” and you get about six outside of Milan and only about six within Milan. Narrow it down to the best hospital in Lugano and they refer to it as a clinic with an ER. I’ve seen TMCs on a military base and Indian Affairs hospitals that are larger. Maybe <200 beds for all inpatient care and <~10 ICU beds but I don’t read Italian. On any given day those beds weren’t empty before Cov19 hit them.

Switzerland had more and Munich had even more red tags.

[LongWire]

So what is going on now in Wuhan? I just heard on the news this morning reporting that there are no new cases. Call me skeptical, but it seems to me that China went radio silent a couple weeks ago, and now they are containing a story.

[The Reaper]

My understanding is that China either stopped testing, or stopped releasing the results.

TR

[Pete]

You can go here and check our numbers

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Washing state has been static with no new cases. They've been passed by NY, NJ and CA. There is a plateau out there.

[5thgrp"C"]

I think the ability to quickly reach a plateau shows how we can alter the course through the very basic measures recommended by the WHO. In each country where social distancing became the norm the growth rate was dramatically reduced.

As mentioned before, IMO this peters out as quickly as it came on. This bug isn’t as badass as most are believing. If it was, we wouldn’t be able to maneuver on it the way we are. As a society, we are by far the best positioned to minimize the damage and rebound quicker than others. I wouldn’t want to be on any other continent though. :munchin

I believe we are writing the SOPs for how a modern society responds to a novel coronavirus. If a future and truly nasty novel coronavirus does show up and we undoubtedly deploy the same countermeasures with no effect we will pay a substantially higher price. Just my .02cents but something to keep in the back of our minds. Good reason to keep that cardio PT program going.:lifter

As a disclaimer:
This is just a stay-at-home dad’s personal assessment gained from watching the WHO press conferences as well as some governors such as OH, NY, and WA. In other words, not a beltway analyst.

[Old Dog New Trick]

I think the ability to quickly reach a plateau shows how we can alter the course through the very basic measures recommended by the WHO. In each country where social distancing became the norm the growth rate.
SNIP
As a disclaimer:
This is just a stay-at-home dad’s personal assessment gained from watching the WHO press conferences as well as some governors such as OH, NY, and WA. In other words, not a beltway analyst.

I want to add a cautionary note to the accolades noted above.

The WHO is part of the UN, when I was an 18D in Group working abroad doing MEDCAPs in SEA and again working in the 96th Civil Affairs in SEA and Asia (Bangladesh) doing HA I came to believe that the WHO was just as inept and complicit with the failure of so many humanitarian issues of the day. I have personally witnessed bags of rice re-bagged from the USA with either UN or WHO markings. I don’t trust them and won’t trust them to have the best interests of the United States of America in their charter. They lie!

I have heard they have and continue to lie to protect China in this outbreak of COVID-19 and are complicit in the cover up going on right now in China. They were late to call this what it is. A worldwide pandemic of a fast moving deadly virus.

Just want to say that. They are the United Nations and they don’t like us.

Nothing against what 5thgrp”C” wanted to say. They do occasionally get something right. Much like the US after having tried everything else and failed.

[PSM]

China was also instrumental in founding the WHO.

[P36]

NC schools are closed until May.

[Ret10Echo]

China was also instrumental in founding the WHO.

WHO, UNHCR.....etc.....etc...

Zero trust.

[Old Dog New Trick]

WHO, UNHCR.....etc.....etc...

Zero trust.

Oh don’t get me wound up over the those thieving bastards at UNHCR. F-ing thieves stealing from SF accomplishments and many a US Ambassadors’ Office of Humanitarian Affairs.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Okay my highjacking the thread is over.

Return to your regularly scheduled Pandemic Flu thread.

We are doing better than expected and I feel that the steps being taken by all are making a real difference. Time will tell but let’s keep believing this too will pass into the history books of life.

[mugwump]

Double tap on a post...

The video linked below is a fascinating window into so many, many trends: state surveillance, COVID-19 case tracking and contact analysis, loss of any sense of community responsibility...

The context here is tracking the population of one small beach in Florida as they return home. Expand this to all the other beaches in FL, TX, AL and you can see why those state governors were idiots.

Anywho, the type of analysis shown in this video is what the Chinese are using to assign red/yellow/green infection risk status to individuals in China via a cellphone app. If your phone has come within 2 meters of another phone carried by an infected person, your phone turns red and you’re a social pariah with no access to stores, public transport, etc.

This is why AI is such a big deal. Not a muahaha evil computer mind taking over the world but real-time analysis of social data to control populations. And Google is helping the commies do it, but that’s another post.

https://twitter.com/tectonixgeo/status/1242628347034767361?s=21

[mugwump]

Predictions:

A push to make mandatory the use of internet-linked digital thermometers. The manufacturer of a cheap (sub $20) Bluetooth-linked thermometer can see infections flaring in the US a week before anyone in public health has a clue.

Smartphones become mandatory. Already a thing in China. You must be tracked “for the children”. Apps control access to public spaces. Also already in place in China.

Whoops, gotta run

[Pete]

Predictions:

A push to make mandatory the use of internet-linked digital thermometers. The manufacturer of a cheap (sub $20) Bluetooth-linked thermometer can see infections flaring in the US a week before anyone in public health has a clue.

Smartphones become mandatory. Already a thing in China. You must be tracked “for the children”. Apps control access to public spaces. Also already in place in China.

Whoops, gotta run

That will require (as will be pushed by the left) that the US Government furnish a phone and data plan for all the great unwashed - you know, those people running around in $200 tennis shoes.

[mugwump]

That will require (as will be pushed by the left) that the US Government furnish a phone and data plan for all the great unwashed - you know, those people running around in $200 tennis shoes.

The Dems had free phones in the bailout bill that’s awaiting vote. It may be there now, dunno

[Ret10Echo]

Predictions:

A push to make mandatory the use of internet-linked digital thermometers. The manufacturer of a cheap (sub $20) Bluetooth-linked thermometer can see infections flaring in the US a week before anyone in public health has a clue.

Smartphones become mandatory. Already a thing in China. You must be tracked “for the children”. Apps control access to public spaces. Also already in place in China.

Whoops, gotta run

I'll buy a monkey and strap my cell phone to it.

Have a nice day MFs :D

[Pete]

I should not read some of these replies while drinking Pepsi from a bottle.

[Trapper John]

I'll buy a monkey and strap my cell phone to it.

Have a nice day MFs :D

Damn that's funny rat there! On the other hand, ya got me thinkin' That's a good idea too. :D

[GratefulCitizen]

Depending on the state, governors can wield significant power when declaring an emergency.
I think a statute or amendment to a state constitution regarding use of these powers would be prudent.

Perhaps an automatic gubernatorial retention vote 3 months after ANY statewide state of emergency is declared.
It would likely temper the use of such powers.

[tom kelly]

I should not read some of these replies while drinking Pepsi from a bottle.

While I am reading the post's RIGHT NOW I am Drinking Diet Pepsi from the bottle. WATCH MY REPLIES !!!!

[Ret10Echo]

An interesting nugget here.

Curioser and curiouser

Per Bloomberg, Rhode Island Governor Gina Raimondo (https://www.mediaite.com/news/rhode-island-governor-institutes-border-checkpoints-mandatory-14-day-quarantine-for-new-yorkers-entering-state/) ordered state police to set up border checkpoints on Friday to single out cars with New York license plates so the occupants could be questioned and possibly quarantined for two weeks before interacting with her state’s residents. Currently, Rhode Island has just a few hundred confirmed cases of COVID-19, while New York’s infections have skyrocketed into the tens of thousands.

Posted: Mar 27, 2020 / 07:27 PM EDT / Updated: Mar 28, 2020 / 11:42 AM EDT

HOPKINTON R.I. (WPRI) (https://www.wpri.com/health/coronavirus/ri-state-police-national-guard-set-up-checkpoint-to-stop-log-travelers-from-ny/) ─ Rhode Island State Police troopers and National Guard members began actively stopping passenger vehicles with New York license plates on Friday after Gov. Gina Raimondo ordered anyone traveling from the Empire State to the Ocean State to self-quarantine for 14 days upon arrival.

Troopers set up a checkpoint on I-95 in Hope Valley where drivers with New York license plates must stop and provide their contact information if they plan on staying in Rhode Island long-term.

[Pete]

An interesting nugget here.

Curioser and curiouser

You know the result of that is horse shit. Anybody running off to get away from the virus is not going to lock themselves away for 14 days. It's all about them.

They have to go shopping to get stuff to stock the house, maybe see other friends go out to get something to eat, etc.

Which is why voluntary containment doesn't work that well in the US.

If folks were serious they would turn those cars around.

[JJ_BPK]

It's a start. Who else will block the Cuomo refugees?? or any other state.

I agree with Pete, they should send then all home, with a restraining order.

Per Bloomberg, Rhode Island Governor Gina Raimondo ordered state police to set up border checkpoints on Friday to single out cars with New York license plates so the occupants could be questioned and possibly quarantined for two weeks before interacting with her state’s residents. Currently, Rhode Island has just a few hundred confirmed cases of COVID-19, while New York’s infections have skyrocketed into the tens of thousands.

[Pete]

NY Health Commissioner Dismisses White House Call for New Yorkers to Enter Self-Quarantine

Full story behind a pay wall

https://www.theepochtimes.com/ny-health-commissioner-dismisses-white-house-call-for-new-yorkers-to-enter-self-quarantine_3285372.html

"New York’s health commissioner on Wednesday dismissed a call from White House officials for anyone who left or is leaving the New York metro area to self-quarantine for two weeks.

“I would not follow that,” Dr. Howard Zucker told reporters in Albany.

“These cases are all over the country, it’s not just in New York,” he added..."

Why do we even try and help NY???

[cbtengr]

NY Health Commissioner Dismisses White House Call for New Yorkers to Enter Self-Quarantine

Full story behind a pay wall

https://www.theepochtimes.com/ny-health-commissioner-dismisses-white-house-call-for-new-yorkers-to-enter-self-quarantine_3285372.html

"New York’s health commissioner on Wednesday dismissed a call from White House officials for anyone who left or is leaving the New York metro area to self-quarantine for two weeks.

“I would not follow that,” Dr. Howard Zucker told reporters in Albany.

“These cases are all over the country, it’s not just in New York,” he added..."

Why do we even try and help NY???

Damned if we do and damned if we don't. Cuomo and other New York talking heads make all that noise and puff themselves up, then when they gets some attention from Trump it is the last thing they want. The sun does not rise and set in NY.

[GratefulCitizen]

What are the long term consequences if all of the responses in the US work well?
Suppose the transmission rate slows, treatments are effective, and maybe the virus turns out not to be as severe as advertised.

Will Americans be lulled?
If there is a future pandemic of greater severity, will Americans think it's a case of crying wolf?

Who can be trusted to give accurate information in the future?

[JJ_BPK]

NY Health Commissioner Dismisses White House Call for New Yorkers to Enter Self-Quarantine


"New York’s health commissioner on Wednesday dismissed a call from White House officials for anyone who left or is leaving the New York metro area to self-quarantine for two weeks.

“I would not follow that,” Dr. Howard Zucker told reporters in Albany.



If NYC had numbers like Wyoming,, maybe the good Doctor would sound reasonable.
But NYC is a Corona-V hell hole and his attitude will only may things worst. :mad:


On FB I just had a friend say there will be at least 100,000 deaths maybe 200,000. based on what he watched on the view. These academics are only selling books and vying for jobs at CNN :mad:

[WarriorDiplomat]

Which one of the below 3 do you recognize?

A social panic is a state where a social or community group reacts negatively and in an extreme or irrational manner to unexpected or unforeseen changes in their expected social status quo. According to Folk Devils and Moral Panics by Stanley Cohen, the definition can be broken down to many different sections. The sections, which were identified by Erich Goode and Nachman Ben-Yehuda in 1994, include concern, hostility, consensus, disproportionality, and volatility. Concern, which is not to be mistaken with fear, is about the possible or potential threat. Hostility occurs when an outrage occurs toward the people who were a part of the problem and agencies who are accountable.[1] These people are seen as the enemy since their behavior is viewed as a danger to society. Consensus includes a distributed agreement that an actual threat is going to take place. This is where the media and other sources come in to aid in spreading of the panic. Disproportionality compares people's reactions to the actual seriousness of the con
Grass Root Model describes that social panic commonly occurs first through the people in society. The feeling that something meaningful is threatened is dispersed throughout everyone in society. This sense of panic not only displays itself through the people but also through areas such as the media and political groups. The media serves as a way to present the public opinion about the reality of the situation. This theory states that the media can't report concern where none originally exists. The media and politicians are merely an outlet for displaying what people are expressing. Furthermore, the media can affect the way the public sees situations. An example of this theory is how people cause social panics due to nuclear power. After the Three Mile Island accident, where there was a nuclear meltdown, people evacuated their homes even though no workers or residents living in that area were injured or killed. The only reason people in that area were aware of what was going on was due to the social panic that people caused when they reacted to the situation. This panic was caused by the general public, not by elites or interest group as in the models explained below.[3]

The Elite-Engineered Model explains that social panics are exaggerated or invented problems created by elites or people who are considered higher among others in society. These type of people produce fear among the other classes over an issue that is not considered dangerous to the society. The reason for these actions is to redirect the attention away from the problems that impact the elite or those in power. The people who are considered elite could be someone who runs a company or is very rich, as they may have connections with the media and are familiar with politicians that can make proposals in their favor. An example that illustrates this theory can be seen in the Russians, specifically the Czars, who turned the focus away from the anger of poverty by spreading a Jewish conspiracy. This caused mobs to form and kill Jewish communities. This capacity of the elites to control direction allows them to accomplish their own goals. They want to continue to benefit from the economic and political inequality.[4]

The Interest-Group Model are made by people in interest groups who direct the public's focus on actions that are intended to be morally negative and be a danger to society. They want them to recognize a problem that affects them directly. Unlike in the Elite-Engineered model, the interest groups are the ones who create social panic. Interest groups believe they are providing a public service because they will benefit from what they are doing. They do this by using the media to influence public opinion. If they are successful in doing this, it will call attention to their particular interest group, gain the trust of society and wealth, and be more advanced than opposing interest groups. An example that demonstrates this theory is when politicians, in order to get reelected, used the issue of drug abuse in the United States to cause social panic. However, even though they wanted to remain in office they still believed that drug use was a problem they wanted to address to the public.[3]

[JJ_BPK]

More economic good news

Newson closes Virginian until June :mad:


Governor Northam Issues Statewide Stay at Home Order

RICHMOND—Governor Ralph Northam today issued a statewide Stay at Home order to protect the health and safety of Virginians and mitigate the spread of the novel coronavirus, or COVID-19. The executive order takes effect immediately and will remain in place until June 10, 2020, unless amended or rescinded by a further executive order.

The order directs all Virginians to stay home except in extremely limited circumstances. Individuals may leave their residence for allowable travel, including to seek medical attention, work, care for family or household members, obtain goods and services like groceries, prescriptions, and others as outlined in Executive Order Fifty-Three, and engage in outdoor activity with strict social distancing requirements.

The executive order also directs all Virginia institutions of higher education to stop in-person classes and instruction. Private campgrounds must close for short-term stays, and beaches will be closed statewide except for fishing and exercise.

“We are in a public health crisis, and we need everyone to take this seriously and act responsibly,” said Governor Northam. “Our message to Virginians is clear: stay home. We know this virus spreads primarily through human-to-human contact, and that’s why it’s so important that people follow this order and practice social distancing. I’m deeply grateful to everyone for their cooperation during this unprecedented and difficult time.”

https://www.governor.virginia.gov/newsroom/all-releases/2020/march/headline-855702-en.html

[Badger52]

"...engage in outdoor activity with strict social distancing requirements."

Gotcha. Ok buddy, you stay up there & run the trolling motor, I'll stay back here near the live-wells and if we gotta run, it's balaclava time.
:D

[The Reaper]

Are the Dims so desperate that they would have their governors unnecessarily tank their own economies to try and damage the POTUS?

This could be a CoA given the lack of viable Dim POTUS candidates at this point.

Not improbable in a Cloward and Pliven driven strategy.

TR

[WarriorDiplomat]

Are the Dims so desperate that they would have their governors unnecessarily tank their own economies to try and damage the POTUS?

This could be a CoA given the lack of viable Dim POTUS candidates at this point.

Not improbable in a Cloward and Pliven driven strategy.

TR

And yet the POTUS has gained in approval in the polls

Classic strategy to put the people on their knees and then offer them the solution of Socialism

[LongWire]

And yet the POTUS has gained in approval in the polls

Classic strategy to put the people on their knees and then offer them the solution of Socialism

I'm wondering if his numbers reflect his walking back the "open by Easter" message?

[Ret10Echo]

It's coming to this:


JOHNSTOWN, Pa. (WJAC) — A man coughing and not covering his mouth led to shots fired at a Johnstown Sheetz, according to a criminal complaint.

Police say officers were called to the Sheetz on Broad Street last Saturday for reports of shots fired into an occupied vehicle.

Police say the driver of the vehicle, 53-year-old William Sauro, drove away from the scene and called 911 from his home.



Here (https://wjactv.com/news/local/report-man-coughing-and-not-covering-led-to-shots-fired-at-johnstown-sheetz)

There is video of the incident on the site as well

[WarriorDiplomat]

I'm wondering if his numbers reflect his walking back the "open by Easter" message?

Possible he needed to....I prefer to believe it is John and Jane Q Public aren't buying into the medias taking advantage of this to try to stop him in 2020.....it is hard to do but a search of other credible experts in the field commenting on the virus following the same seasonal pattern of flu because heat is inhospitable for these viruses so his initial comment about it being like the flu? is not entirely wrong

[Badger52]

Possible he needed to....I prefer to believe it is John and Jane Q Public aren't buying into the medias taking advantage of this to try to stop him in 2020.....it is hard to do but a search of other credible experts in the field commenting on the virus following the same seasonal pattern of flu because heat is inhospitable for these viruses so his initial comment about it being like the flu? is not entirely wrongThanks for your insights thus far. I have to remind myself that the media (and those who use it) are extremely graphic-oriented. While not disputing the issues in the metro hives, they are the big flares on the map. Other states with middlin' numbers that might actually be seeing the case doubling rate flattening are less likely to get recognized as something positive when the political kritters in the big cities get in front of their microphones to exhibit their thrice daily gnashing of teeth & flailing of arms and, just for good measure, Orange Man Bad.

[WarriorDiplomat]

Thanks for your insights thus far. I have to remind myself that the media (and those who use it) are extremely graphic-oriented. While not disputing the issues in the metro hives, they are the big flares on the map. Other states with middlin' numbers that might actually be seeing the case doubling rate flattening are less likely to get recognized as something positive when the political kritters in the big cities get in front of their microphones to exhibit their thrice daily gnashing of teeth & flailing of arms and, just for good measure, Orange Man Bad.

The silver lining to this entire thing is here in the U.S. over 60,000 died from the flu last season over 650,000 worldwide....the prevention of spread is exactly the same things that this virus requires that first world nations have been advised to do for years....I suspect the fear and panic this has caused has energized people to actually follow the same advice they have been taught their whole lives when sick...I imagine next years flu fatalities will be lower as it is this year and the pharma and medical industrial complex will be hurting next year and have to drum up some other way to scare people into overmedicating and or submitting to medical care. DO NOT INVEST IN ANY MEDICAL stocks NEXT SEASON....the winners this year are the online businesses and delivery services...the losers are the restaurant, commercial gyms, and bar worlds

[frostfire]

The silver lining

. DO NOT INVEST IN ANY MEDICAL stocks NEXT SEASON....the winners this year are the online businesses and delivery services...the losers are the restaurant, commercial gyms, and bar worlds

Concur w the silver lining. I’m positive GI diseases will be less too

Pharmac esp the chloroquine manufactures and those in the race to vaccine are doing well now.

I’m on the sideline calculating if movie theatres, malls, reit w nursing homes, cruises, and airlines are worth scooping
The fear of bankruptcy is near if not already at max

[Pete]

...I’m on the sideline calculating if movie theatres, malls, reit w nursing homes, cruises, and airlines are worth scooping.....

Nursing homes, cruises and airlines will always be with us.

Due to on line ordering and crime (teenagers wilding) foot traffic at some Malls have been trending down.

Movie Theaters? Been a lot of turmoil there. Sales are up but are they filling the seats? Lot of pushing back and forth the last couple of years between the makers and theaters.

I'd say before sinking tons of money into the two a great deal of research would need to be done.

[LongWire]

Malls are definitely not worth it, unless of course you are looking at repurposing.

I know that Google swallowed up the Westwood mall in L.A., Im thinking that they are using it as a server farm, of course they kept the food court.....

My point is that Amazon is killing Malls across America. Millennials aren't going to the Mall, they are getting together on Insta and Tik Tok etc....YMMV

[Penn]

Pete: The definition of: Sage advise.

[frostfire]

Thank you Pete and LongWire for the insight.
Even if some continue to drop, it does make one smile to pay half than Buffet :D


Back to social impact, I wonder if the final toll will affect the West and particularly US view on sanctity of life, family dynamics i.e. taking care of parents at home, etc.
IMHOO, the western culture tends to cling to every last bit of life (Nothing wrong as that tendency gave force to unsurpassed medical discoveries). This is just from my own experience of over a decade in healthcare. The elderly and terminally ill die in hospital with every tube and machine connected, surrounded by strangers (medical staff). Back in my pediatric emergency room work, I could not recall a single code (with CPR) I did where the patient made it. Even after ROSC, the patient passed later in PICU. Maybe I'm just falling to the folly of selective bias, but perhaps my peers see the same with this pandemic?
I can't imagine how it must be in the old inner city ER. We were already busy with regular trauma, seasonal flu, cancer, etc. Then comes COVID as +1
That's why I'm encouraged by stories like this one
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12321379
Obviously I have a personal bias. I taped my DNR and DNI papers to my dogtags every time I jumped. I've had a good run.

[Penn]

Restaurant will be very challenged to reopen and will be required by new social norms being instituted to expand spacing between tables, effecting COS, to keep margins - price increases may not be tolerated.

[Pete]

Restaurant will be very challenged to reopen and will be required by new social norms being instituted to expand spacing between tables, effecting COS, to keep margins - price increases may not be tolerated.

Since we've lived in the same town for a number or years we've seen the progression in a few of the restaurants we like to go to.

One, a wings place that we've gone to for over 20 years, had the regular seating and then a bar section that had the bar, a few high tables with high chairs and a couple of pool tables.

They did pretty good business.

One day the pool tables were gone and a few more high tables were added. The bar area was still pretty spread out.

Then it seemed like they were slowly adding tables one each year. Slowly the area got more crowded.

This last time we went it was packed. The wait staff had a hard time getting between the tables and your chair was backed up to the chairs at the next table. Once things open up again if it's that crowded we'll find a new place to go. Don't like eating wings when the chair behind your chair is banging into it.

Point being - slowly filling an eating area over time is seldom noted by many.

[Surf n Turf]

Interesting article that might show shifts in America’s future AFTER this Chinese virus has run its course

SnT

7 Major Cultural Shifts The Coronavirus Crisis Should Make Happen

The spectre of one’s mortality that a global health and economic crisis raises can be a needed and sobering opportunity to reconsider and reorder our lives, if we’re granted them longer.

The coronavirus pandemic is a social stress test exposing many Americans’ lack of responsibility for our lives, our willingness to hold other people’s lives hostage to our own, and our national unpreparedness to manage danger. What are some long-term positive steps this moment of unexpected reflection and improvement should inspire us to take to address that? Here are a few ideas.

1. Massive Shift in Education
2. Prepping for Emergencies, Government Incompetence
3. More Flexible Work Environments
4. Better Social Norms About Sickness
5. Basic Financial Responsibility
6. Learning How to Live through Deprivation
7. Revitalization of Community Relationships


https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/02/7-major-cultural-shifts-the-coronavirus-crisis-should-make-happen/

[Badger52]

Interesting article that might show shifts in America’s future AFTER this Chinese virus has run its course

SnT
Thanks for that. There are some seriously bloated sacred cows up there to be slain.

[1stindoor]

Interesting article that might show shifts in America’s future AFTER this Chinese virus has run its course

SnT

https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/02/7-major-cultural-shifts-the-coronavirus-crisis-should-make-happen/

Interesting article, but as the husband of an elementary school teacher (kindergarten...finishing her 30th year), I find the section on Education pretty full of holes. While it may be true at the HS level...and maybe only partially at the MS level. I've witnessed first hand the effects of no supervision and no education going on in the home before Kindergarten starts and during long breaks (summer, fall, spring, etc.).
Parents are getting a taste of what exactly their kids do all day. Some will discover that if a layperson can do the job of a credentialed teacher in half the time, maybe that’s an indication of serious lack. Families may discover that learning outside the default is more refreshing, less stressful, and less propagandistic.
Keep in mind my wife teaches Kindergarten...her phone has blown up with emails and texts every day since the schools closed down. Parents across the board in Elementary Ed (my daughter teaches 5th grade)...are seriously ill-equipped to lay the foundation young students need. MOO, we're going to see the effects of this shut down soon as younger kids get a cruel lesson about actually being ready for the following grade.

Before anyone gets their feelings hurt, I am not talking about the people that have home-schooled. The biggest difference there is the dedication and commitment they make to their children's education. Typically they're not trying to balance a full time job...educating their children IS their full time job.

[Pete]

Cumberland County Schools (NC) have been running (at least for the grand daughter's grade) an on line "school" for the last two weeks.

Very cobbled together at the start and running many different apps on phones. Took the wife a few days to get it all working for the grand daughter. Basically they have on line homework every day and her class gets on line together for a chat for an hour. Things are a lot smoother now that it's all on a lap top.

Problem is only about 1/2 to 2/3s of the students are participating. The poor section of the school zone makes a distinct majority of those not participating.

[1stindoor]

Same experiences at our house. Another part of the bigger problem is that the IT infrastructure isn't there to support thousands of school aged kids trying to log on at the same time and stream online content.

[JJ_BPK]

Interesting article, but as the husband of an elementary school teacher (kindergarten...finishing her 30th year), I find the section on Education pretty full of holes. While it may be true at the HS level...and maybe only partially at the MS level. I've witnessed first hand the effects of no supervision and no education going on in the home before Kindergarten starts and during long breaks (summer, fall, spring, etc.).

Keep in mind my wife teaches Kindergarten...her phone has blown up with emails and texts every day since the schools closed down. Parents across the board in Elementary Ed (my daughter teaches 5th grade)...are seriously ill-equipped to lay the foundation young students need. MOO, we're going to see the effects of this shut down soon as younger kids get a cruel lesson about actually being ready for the following grade.

Before anyone gets their feelings hurt, I am not talking about the people that have home-schooled. The biggest difference there is the dedication and commitment they make to their children's education. Typically they're not trying to balance a full time job...educating their children IS their full time job.

My #1 teaches pre-K in NOVA. Fortunately, she has a healthy background in on-line education. She is pumping out hints and plans daily. Little ones in K & Pre-K are fairly easily redirected and pick-up online fast,, IF they have access and tools.

The USA G-Kids, 8, 11, & 14 YO's are fairing well but need more depth in subjects. They are all fortunate in that they love to read and have access to the net, but it's hard to find at-home practical applications in the sciences.

My #2 in London UK is having problems. Their flat is in the middle of a major re-build and has been since last Aug. It has forced the family to live in their bedrooms. The master BR is the kitchen, dining, & family room. Although the G- kids (5 & 8 YO) are online addicts, the UK school system is not.

Teachers are trying their best by mailing out plans. The UK & EU online access at the family level is behind the US. The infrastructure is there but the MIPS rates are not, so streaming is weak in many areas.

The salvation in the UK may be their full-time school year, as they can reorganize the calendar to accommodate the current "spring break".

I hear the Florida swamp critter this AM suggests his state will scrap the 2019-2020 school year and repeat ALL STUDENTS next year or some variation??

https://www.wtxl.com/news/local-news/required-state-testing-canceled-for-all-k-12-schools-in-florida

[Penn]

Pete
Problem is only about 1/2 to 2/3s of the students are participating. The poor section of the school zone makes a distinct majority of those not participating.

Truth that every social justice activist denies. Generational ignorance perpetuated by the progressive liberal that argues standards are racist. Just as the Chinese virus is about geography and not ethnicity. Educational standard is about a level playing field, and not inequality.

[Penn]

1st ITD,
Same experiences at our house. Another part of the bigger problem is that the IT infrastructure isn't there to support thousands of school aged kids trying to log on at the same time and stream online content.
_

The infrastructure is there and in use worldwide. In fact, posted in the library section are a number of subject taught on the coursera model. That model is easily adaptable to MS and HS curriculums. But like all things that have the potential to disenfranchise power, the progressive left will never allow education to be outsourced, to lose the ability to influence in Mao's concept will never be afforded to parents, or society as a whole.

[1stindoor]

1st ITD,


The infrastructure is there and in use worldwide. In fact, posted in the library section are a number of subject taught on the coursera model. That model is easily adaptable to MS and HS curriculums. But like all things that have the potential to disenfranchise power, the progressive left will never allow education to be outsourced, to lose the ability to influence in Mao's concept will never be afforded to parents, or society as a whole.

And then there's that....thanks for additional consideration. I was being naive and leaving out the whole part about the power issue. It does definitely highlight the vast differences in the haves/haves not. I feel bad for the parents that are struggling to keep their kids tuned in so that they're ready for the next year.

[Penn]

So many times here a discussion in mysteriously duplicated in MSM, case in point: social and economic impact on Restaurants, call me crazy, almost virbatim.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/jon-taffers-biggest-worry-for-restaurants-reopening-after-covid-19

[Requiem]

I hear the Florida swamp critter this AM suggests his state will scrap the 2019-2020 school year and repeat ALL STUDENTS next year or some variation??

That's drastic. The students have completed half a school year, plus some, before this hit the fan.

Here in the Anchorage area, high school seniors are now being given the option of dropping any non-core subject not needed for graduation, using their 3rd quarter grade as the final grade. Or dropping it completely off the transcript. Core subjects are being taught via remote online school now.

Why start a school year completely over? That's nuts.

[Badger52]

So many times here a discussion in mysteriously duplicated in MSM, case in point: social and economic impact on Restaurants, call me crazy, almost virbatim. Well, the modern version of "journalist" - especially the online feeders who can't type, have poor spelling and their editors don't - are always looking for people who actually KNOW what they're talking about.
:cool:

[Badger52]

The infrastructure is there and in use worldwide.We've had several blistering local editorials taking a particular telecomm provider to task for failed promises and their taking of 1/2 Billion dollars over some years to improve bandwidth to the outlying areas. It's not just the students having it available. A teacher, trying to conduct a class while quarantined, who also lives in an outlying/underserved area is often operating as if he/she had a 386 desktop on a late-80's ethernet in terms of speed. And trying to assemble & feed content to a class, on what amounts to the extra copper pair of their phone line.

The Big Mama Cable/Internet provider hasn't gotten their construction out there yet. They're trying as fast as they can to pickup where the Telco has failed. The provider being scalded is the Telco who said after de-reg in 1985 that they "just couldn't wait" to jump in and build infrastructure to get in on this internet thing. Gov't largesse went to some suits at the Telco, but it didn't put innerduct & FO cable & multiplexers in the ground.

And, like Special Forces Soldiers, they are not created using a just-in-time delivery model.

[cbtengr]

Easy to find how many folks have died from the virus but just try to find stats for those who have recovered.

Regarding unemployment numbers. Here is one headline. THE US ECONOMY LOST 701,000 JOBS IN MARCH — WORST REPORT SINCE 2009
https://www.waaytv.com/content/news/569348122.html

The unemployment rate in December of 2009 was 9.9%, can you imagine how bad it would be now had it never recovered to a record low of 3.5% as recently as March. Shock and awe by the MSM. I see the glass as being half full. YMMV

[Gypsy]

Easy to find how many folks have died from the virus but just try to find stats for those who have recovered.



I've been saying this for days now.

[Pete]

And the folks with mild symptoms who were just sent home without being tested and have recovered are not counted.

[Flagg]

Same experiences at our house. Another part of the bigger problem is that the IT infrastructure isn't there to support thousands of school aged kids trying to log on at the same time and stream online content.

Our teen kids have been using supplementary education platforms like Khan Academy(all subjects), duo lingo(language), and AI math tutor Amy.app for years.

On top of the school digital platform.

Our kids’ school responded pretty quickly, so still reactive rather than proactive.

But our kids’ habits/behaviours have been little changed, they’re just doing more of the same at home.

——-

One thing to consider is higher education.

Universities have all been struggling with both a broken higher education model(bang for the buck is negative) and a fast growing digital model that will disrupt them.

Outside of the top 20 schools with the brands and the endowments to survive, there is a good chance of a massive slaughter in higher education over the next 12-18 months.

An argument can be made that this could reduce the safe haven’s of domestic adversaries.

Another argument can be made that destroying the safe haven income streams of domestic adversaries will see them shift towards more aggressive direct political action. That could get ugly, but it could bring adversaries more out into the open. Maybe it results in a Weather Underground 2.0

There will certainly be a very loud call for bailouts of universities.

At the federal level, my thought is that any federal funding boost to universities should be solely in the form of hard science only R&D with commercial potential and conditions around non citizen foreign graduate student access from some countries.

[Ret10Echo]

We've had several blistering local editorials taking a particular telecomm provider to task for failed promises and their taking of 1/2 Billion dollars over some years to improve bandwidth to the outlying areas. It's not just the students having it available. A teacher, trying to conduct a class while quarantined, who also lives in an outlying/underserved area is often operating as if he/she had a 386 desktop on a late-80's ethernet in terms of speed. And trying to assemble & feed content to a class, on what amounts to the extra copper pair of their phone line.

The Big Mama Cable/Internet provider hasn't gotten their construction out there yet. They're trying as fast as they can to pickup where the Telco has failed. The provider being scalded is the Telco who said after de-reg in 1985 that they "just couldn't wait" to jump in and build infrastructure to get in on this internet thing. Gov't largesse went to some suits at the Telco, but it didn't put innerduct & FO cable & multiplexers in the ground.

And, like Special Forces Soldiers, they are not created using a just-in-time delivery model.

So you've seen/read the "Book of Broken Promises"?

This is a bit dated but a quick intro:

By the end of 2014, America will have been charged about $400 billion by the local phone incumbents, Verizon, AT&T and CenturyLink, for a fiber optic future that never showed up. And though it varies by state, counting the taxes, fees and surcharges that you have paid every month (many of these fees are actually revenues to the company or taxes on the company that you paid), it comes to about $4000-$5000.00 per household from 1992-2014, and that’s the low number

[Badger52]

There will certainly be a very loud call for bailouts of universities. The progaganda rag down in Madison has been bellering (maybe every other day) how the UW stands to lose $100M. They screamed the same thing during a discussion of border area resident/non-res tuition awhile back. And they're still sitting with a $580M slush fund that no one seems to have questioned beyond the initial sound bites a few years back. Not regular books, not alumni - a slush fund. The place is rife with the usual 2nd world wonderful professors brought here with monstrous perks and high 6-figures who show up once a week to make sure their TA's are there.

They could be rethinking their biz model... but my guess is their big paws will be out like everyone else's, banking on one $2T bailout after another.

Meanwhile, now a total of 5 cases in the county; a young gal in her 20's and a gent in their 60's, all with mild symptoms, all at home. The 1st case down in the capital has been judged to have recovered. But I'm with cbtengr on not seeing the regular coverage of the recovered, tested negative stuff as much as the doom. Some stats I've found here (https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en) (scrolling down) and clicking on a state breaks down to counties. But for some places that aren't "hot spots" and just feeling the punch, it's going to take awhile for cases to "clear."

Now back to our regular coverage of making notes in recreating my Mother's tamale pie...
:D

[Ret10Echo]

Listened to a Rogan podcast today where he was interviewing Eric Weinstein. Eric has been really charged up lately on the whole mask-shortage issue and the failure of the political elites now that the chips are down. Some pretty strong words from him but I like how his thoughts come at different angles and how he structures his arguments. EW rolls through a cause and effect cycle in the first half of the interview....based on "masks" and misinformation.

Anyhow

Something that is interesting to me at least is pulling on the string that we don't MAKE anything here any longer. Thus the impact of "stay at home" and "non-essential" really strikes hard because we have become a service-industry or hospitality industry society. We don't build/make...we just consume. So the path that we have gone down is one where the corporate bottom line and the company leadership being beholding to stock-holders and boards has superseded the focus on whether or note outsourcing or moving overseas is good/bad for America. Well, that has come back home to roost.

It's a good long-format interview for those who have interest.

Joe Rogan Experience #1453 wherever you get your podcasts from


R10

[Badger52]

So you've seen/read the "Book of Broken Promises"?

This is a bit dated but a quick intro:Actually have not read, but thanks for the intro. I might try to find it but also recognize it might just increase my PO'd level unnecessarily, lol. I was actually in a meeting with the local branch (we were demarc point at the base for all their circuits coming in) and these guys had engineers in the room that were fired up at the prospect of a new frontier, internet, multi-media, maybe even play in bringing CATV to the home on their wire. Oh, Brudda. I hope they didn't get their idealistic young hearts too broken.

Here's the 2nd side of the blade - both sharpened. Before retirement HH6 attended a meeting in La Crosse that included a regional VP from Charter Comm (now Spectrum). They were (and remain) pretty much the only game in town unless one does the "have internet connection, do Hulu, Netflix stuff" kinda thing. Woman sitting next to wife asked this exec why they charged higher rates on this side of the river, while in MN (where there was competition) the same packages & service are cheaper. The exec looked her dead in the eye and said:

"Because we can."

As we've all since found out, the big comm providers have literally had their Yalta and divided CONUS up between them.

The chickens have come home to roost in the inability of Mainstreet USA to switch gears to online learning when needed. So PO'd teachers and students both. (Shit, imagine that a snow day isn't really a snow day and young Heathers & Trents have to get online instead?)

[Flagg]

The progaganda rag down in Madison has been bellering (maybe every other day) how the UW stands to lose $100M. They screamed the same thing during a discussion of border area resident/non-res tuition awhile back. And they're still sitting with a $580M slush fund that no one seems to have questioned beyond the initial sound bites a few years back. Not regular books, not alumni - a slush fund. The place is rife with the usual 2nd world wonderful professors brought here with monstrous perks and high 6-figures who show up once a week to make sure their TA's are there.

They could be rethinking their biz model... but my guess is their big paws will be out like everyone else's, banking on one $2T bailout after another.

Meanwhile, now a total of 5 cases in the county; a young gal in her 20's and a gent in their 60's, all with mild symptoms, all at home. The 1st case down in the capital has been judged to have recovered. But I'm with cbtengr on not seeing the regular coverage of the recovered, tested negative stuff as much as the doom. Some stats I've found here (https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en) (scrolling down) and clicking on a state breaks down to counties. But for some places that aren't "hot spots" and just feeling the punch, it's going to take awhile for cases to "clear."

Now back to our regular coverage of making notes in recreating my Mother's tamale pie...
:D

I’m familiar with the endowments of a few of the top ranked schools.

I know most schools out of the top 20 offer particularly poor return on investment, with few exceptions, if not hard science or tangible degree related.

I had no idea about slush funds.

That should get interesting.

When the hammer falls on school cashflow if Fall semester is impacted, it will be interesting to see where they lash out.

Federal government, state government, and/or each other to save their own feathered nests.

I’m not so much for losing schools, but more for losing useless programs and excess bloat.

[frostfire]

Malls are definitely not worth it, unless of course you are looking at repurposing.

I know that Google swallowed up the Westwood mall in L.A., Im thinking that they are using it as a server farm, of course they kept the food court.....

My point is that Amazon is killing Malls across America. Millennials aren't going to the Mall, they are getting together on Insta and Tik Tok etc....YMMV

All, if I may shamelessly do market research once more...
I'm OCONUS now so questions for those stuck in quarantine esp with kids at home
- Are you/they itching to go to movie theater?
- Would you pay 20% more if they open but with seats 6 feet apart (and thus have to compensate for expenses)

If you look at several theater chain and REIT than rents out to them, the prices have been wiped out 80% plus. I have a SWAG that 1. Studios are itching to push movies that are being cancelled in march-april-May out in june-July and 2. Kids are itching to go back to summer movie theater experience even if they have to wear masks. If ticket sales go through the roof then, even if the $$$ doesn't justify record earning, the positive emotional sentiment should be enough to send prices 20-30% higher!

Thought I'd get some reality check before putting $$$:munchin

[1stindoor]

All, if I may shamelessly do market research once more...
I'm OCONUS now so questions for those stuck in quarantine esp with kids at home
- Are you/they itching to go to movie theater?
- Would you pay 20% more if they open but with seats 6 feet apart (and thus have to compensate for expenses)

If you look at several theater chain and REIT than rents out to them, the prices have been wiped out 80% plus. I have a SWAG that 1. Studios are itching to push movies that are being cancelled in march-april-May out in june-July and 2. Kids are itching to go back to summer movie theater experience even if they have to wear masks. If ticket sales go through the roof then, even if the $$$ doesn't justify record earning, the positive emotional sentiment should be enough to send prices 20-30% higher!

Thought I'd get some reality check before putting $$$:munchin

Up until about 5 weeks ago I usually went to the theater at least 2-3 times a month. It's one of my guilty pleasures. I'm also the guy that purchases the family size tub of popcorn and big drink...because I understand the theater needs that revenue to stay afloat. I don't know if the theater can effectively "survive" on higher prices and seats further apart. Besides the seating issue only addresses those actually in the theater...not those standing in line at the concession stand or buying tickets. If everyone has to stand 6' apart to do those things I suspect the wait times will increase exponentially...thus changing a two hour excursion into a 3 hour excursion...which again, will affect revenue. I think Hollyweird is going to have to look at earlier releases on PPV and streaming services and dramatically alter their profit expectations.

As a side note, Trolls World Tour was the first premiere movie to go straight to streaming/renting services....and they're crushing it.

Also, it's damned near impossible to eat popcorn with a mask or without touching your face. I refuse to watch a movie in a theater without popcorn.

[Badger52]

All, if I may shamelessly do market research once more...
I'm OCONUS now so questions for those stuck in quarantine esp with kids at home
- Are you/they itching to go to movie theater?
- Would you pay 20% more if they open but with seats 6 feet apart (and thus have to compensate for expenses)

If you look at several theater chain and REIT than rents out to them, the prices have been wiped out 80% plus. I have a SWAG that 1. Studios are itching to push movies that are being cancelled in march-april-May out in june-July and 2. Kids are itching to go back to summer movie theater experience even if they have to wear masks. If ticket sales go through the roof then, even if the $$$ doesn't justify record earning, the positive emotional sentiment should be enough to send prices 20-30% higher!

Thought I'd get some reality check before putting $$$:munchinTo the 2 specific questions, No and No.

HH6 and I were just discussing this, following a TV segment that discussed what various studios are doing RE movies that would've been released. True, some are holding onto them, hoping to get them out later in the summer. But a not-insignificant number seem to be simply releasing them to be streamed at home and hence to the graveyard of DVD sales.

I wouldn't be surprised if the sheltering-in experience has, for some, revealed new & less-expensive entertainment avenues, whether it's streaming at one end or simply completely different alternatives to entertainment. Might be awhile before theaters recover. Interesting purchases seen in a Walmart parking lot aren't just cart-loads of TP. For some it's clear that this event has been the impetus to snag that big flat-screen and a home-theater audio system to go with it.

All that is said with the following disclaimer: Kids & grand-kids are still sitting on gift-cards given to them at Christmas for the local theater chain. If the theater opens up, those will get used. Amidst all the "support local" advertising going on, I've not seen the Marcus Theater chain do any of that to encourage purchase of gift cards for use "later" (whatever that is).

[7624U]

Listened to a Rogan podcast today where he was interviewing Eric Weinstein. Eric has been really charged up lately on the whole mask-shortage issue and the failure of the political elites now that the chips are down. Some pretty strong words from him but I like how his thoughts come at different angles and how he structures his arguments. EW rolls through a cause and effect cycle in the first half of the interview....based on "masks" and misinformation.

Anyhow

Something that is interesting to me at least is pulling on the string that we don't MAKE anything here any longer. Thus the impact of "stay at home" and "non-essential" really strikes hard because we have become a service-industry or hospitality industry society. We don't build/make...we just consume. So the path that we have gone down is one where the corporate bottom line and the company leadership being beholding to stock-holders and boards has superseded the focus on whether or note outsourcing or moving overseas is good/bad for America. Well, that has come back home to roost.

It's a good long-format interview for those who have interest.

Joe Rogan Experience #1453 wherever you get your podcasts from


R10

I have always said anything with a (ism) at the end of it is bad. Capitalism when taken to a extreme is bad.
free market economy is good when you have fair profit for work.

[Ret10Echo]

Actually have not read, but thanks for the intro. I might try to find it but also recognize it might just increase my PO'd level unnecessarily, lol.

If you look around you can find it as a free ebook. If you like the smell of paper and ink then places like Amazon carry it

Link here (https://www.amazon.com/Book-Broken-Promises-Billion-Broadband/dp/1505211964)

580 pages

[Pete]

Looking at a problem that is a month out but needs to be addressed now.

"Coronavirus economic threat -- A mortgage industry calamity is looming"

https://www.foxbusiness.com/real-estate/coronavirus-mortgage-industry-calamity

"The coronavirus pandemic is perhaps the single biggest crisis to hit the U.S. economy since the 1930s. Large swaths of the U.S. economy have been idled and particularly the services sector is being decimated in a way that harkens back to the Great Depression. Double-digit unemployment seems inevitable by June, with all of the attendant economic and financial consequences. Amidst this chaos and dislocation, the U.S. housing industry should be a bulwark upon which the economy may find support. After all, virtually all residential mortgages and many multi-family commercial loans in the U.S. are government-guaranteed, right?..."

And what your house is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it.

[Badger52]

If you look around you can find it as a free ebook. If you like the smell of paper and ink then places like Amazon carry it

Link here (https://www.amazon.com/Book-Broken-Promises-Billion-Broadband/dp/1505211964)

580 pagesThanks for that. Will see if I can snag it; we have a pretty decent interlibrary loan system & some branch may have an eBook version as well.

[1stindoor]

Looking at a problem that is a month out but needs to be addressed now.

"Coronavirus economic threat -- A mortgage industry calamity is looming"

https://www.foxbusiness.com/real-estate/coronavirus-mortgage-industry-calamity

And what your house is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it.

I foresee another problem within this problem, that's when the local municipalities decide to raise your property taxes to offset the loss in sales tax that their budgets took. Will those govenrnment entities maintain the value of your home despite market fluctuations...or raise the value to maintain their revenue stream?

[Box]

Just two things I'd like for folks to keep fresh in their collective memory...

1) The Government of China did this.

Whether it came about from poor starving Asians eating raw bats, or incompetent disposal of biohazards from the Wuhan Bio Research Facility, or an intentional "leak" as an attempt to equalize the world economy so China could reset the economic playing field
...because China is not above murdering their own citizens. They have a 100 year history of demonstrating their habitual practice of sacrificing Chinese citizens to "further" the governments agenda.
No matter what flavor of kool-aid people like to drink - the government of China did this.


2) Jeffery Epstein's death successfully protected countless global elites from being outed as taxpayer funded sexual predators.



...brought to you by Carl's Jr.

[tonyz]

I foresee another problem within this problem, that's when the local municipalities decide to raise your property taxes to offset the loss in sales tax that their budgets took. Will those govenrnment entities maintain the value of your home despite market fluctuations...or raise the value to maintain their revenue stream?

IMHO too soon to tell.

If we experience a V-shaped recovery then this pandemic may just be a relative blip - minimal change in values. No change in assessed values.

If this is a U-shaped recovery - that is, it takes some months for jobs and real estate sales to improve - then actual real estate values may dip - but property assessors will not voluntarily lower assessed values.

The length of the “U” really matters here with respect to jobs, real estate values, mortgage accessibility, etc. then, what if there is a second wave in the Fall/Winter? And, where are we with respect to testing, treatments, and vaccines? Time will tell.

Of course if this is an L-shaped “recovery” then all bets are off on increasing property values or assessments - you can’t get blood out of a stone.

Personally, it is looking more like a U than a V recovery - but who really knows.

What we do know is that we face at least three crises simultaneously:

1). Healthcare
2). Economy
3). Supply chains

We do know that this pandemic should be the catalyst for rather substantial realignment in each of these areas.

There should be an explosion of telework, distance learning, etc., concurrently many business will close physical sites.

Nations will bring supply chains home - no more “just in time” as regards critical people, supplies and equipment - and what is considered “critical” should expand.

The need for and value of our medical professionals, researchers, testing, ICU capacity, pharmaceutical integration, relocation back home of critical manufacturing etc., etc., should be sea-change...but we are slow to learn.

[Ret10Echo]

Just two things I'd like for folks to keep fresh in their collective memory...

1) The Government of China did this.

...brought to you by Carl's Jr.

But did they do this with U.S. funding? :munchin

But then again we move infectious disease labs into the very heart of the American Bread Basket....

[Pete]

On property tax by cities and counties.

State law usually requires a revaluation of property values every so many years.

The county/city uses past sales and computer models to figure your new value.

After that the county/city can go revenue neutral or keep the tax rate stable.

Revenue neutral means they lower the tax rate so they bring in the same amount of money that they did before.

Keep the tax rate the same means they bring in a ton of new money and can go on a spending spree.

You can guess which one usually wins.

[1stindoor]

IMHO too soon to tell.
Your whole post...V, L, U shaped recoveries....



Thanks. More "new" things to read up on. (I seriously love this site).

[Badger52]

Nations will bring supply chains home - no more “just in time” as regards critical people, supplies and equipment - and what is considered “critical” should expand.Not being a business owner I am curious as to how the US tax code might need to be restructured to facilitate this. I'm under the impression (50/50 mistaken) that some businesses use JIT inventory because they are otherwise penalized by being taxed for inventory on-hand that they've already paid for, in essence, being taxed twice for the same stuff. (The concept itself is, to me, thievery, but we're talking about the government here...)

I understand that some may use such a concept because the very nature of the inventory would create unrealistic storage requirements, but the first consideration is intriguing to me.

Someone smarter than I can possibly 'splain it to me.
:munchin

[tonyz]

Thanks. More "new" things to read up on. (I seriously love this site).

Hope it helped.

I generally learn something new here every day - I try to incorporate the “learn something new every day” philosophy into my daily grind...means you are never bored...sometimes we get real lucky and Box holds class...;)

[tonyz]

Not being a business owner I am curious as to how the US tax code might need to be restructured to facilitate this. I'm under the impression (50/50 mistaken) that some businesses use JIT inventory because they are otherwise penalized by being taxed for inventory on-hand that they've already paid for, in essence, being taxed twice for the same stuff. (The concept itself is, to me, thievery, but we're talking about the government here...)

I understand that some may use such a concept because the very nature of the inventory would create unrealistic storage requirements, but the first consideration is intriguing to me.

Someone smarter than I can possibly 'splain it to me.
:munchin

“Smarter” ha ha...you funny guy...you know that the IRC code has almost always been used to incentivize some behavior and penalize other behaviors. Personally, I believe that carrot/stick use of the IRC as a policy tool can be problematic depending on who is in office - but that horse is long out of the barn.

Simply stated, if you want less of one behavior you generally tax it and if you want to increase other behavior - then you reward it- there are many ways...lower rates, exclusions, credits, deductions, accelerate depreciation, depletion, create no tax or low tax jurisdictions, etc., etc.,

ETA response more specific to JIT inventory (to which the fundamentals of tax policy apply):

As regards my understanding of JIT inventory - many businesses try to time the purchase of supplies/inventory to coincide with the production process (JIT) and this precise timing really helps conserve cash, avoid excess borrowing costs and facility costs (since they are not storing tons of inventory).

I’m relatively certain (but don’t know specifically) that there may be some complex tax, accounting or state tax specific treatment (or all of the above) of some inventories that might benefit from more favorable tax treatment. The fundamentals still apply to tax policy and JIT...you want more inventory...reward it...or at least don’t penalize it.

[PSM]

All By Myself (video - not YT):

https://www.nrk.no/kultur/all-by-myself-med-kork-1.14972805

[JJ_BPK]

All By Myself (video - not YT):

https://www.nrk.no/kultur/all-by-myself-med-kork-1.14972805

Thanks, some of the outfits are wild :]

[Penn]

imho, based on lots of conversation with other restauranteurs and chefs, the consensus is the business as we known it is over, absent a vaccine. eg., for our petit boîte to survive, we have to remove 3 tables, 1/3 of the seating capacity to accommodate the new/not enforced rules. 6' between tables. Lets look at other adapt and overcome situations the industry has incurred, living in challenging times, lets recount...77-79 gas crises, Iran hostage, the 1980's were bank city, 1990 crash, then the .com kick in the ass, followed by 2001 WTC, then the 2008 banking crises,
now cover-19. Looking back, I am convinced we will find a way forward and thrive.

[WarriorDiplomat]

imho, based on lots of conversation with other restauranteurs and chefs, the consensus is the business as we known it is over, absent a vaccine. eg., for our petit boîte to survive, we have to remove 3 tables, 1/3 of the seating capacity to accommodate the new/not enforced rules. 6' between tables. Lets look at other adapt and overcome situations the industry has incurred, living in challenging times, lets recount...77-79 gas crises, Iran hostage, the 1980's were bank city, 1990 crash, then the .com kick in the ass, followed by 2001 WTC, then the 2008 banking crises,
now cover-19. Looking back, I am convinced we will find a way forward and thrive.

No doubt right now as we speak the entrepreneurial spirit lives and there are ambitious people who refuse to lay down and die and see this as yet another obstacle to overcome....there are determined problem solvers out there coming up with aha moments and coming up with ways to get around the restrictions. If a convict in the most secure prison in the most secure range possible in the world with everything they write being scrutinized diligently can identify, strategize and order murders that are carried out as ordered the entrepreneurs out there will find a way.....the human spirit will not be contained.

I said the same thing during the global warming/climate change frenzy it was clear to me that what was happening was a shift in how the economy functions from oil to green energy the entrepreneurs were not concerned they simply readjusted their strategies to reflect the ebb and flow of the markets needs

[Flagg]

imho, based on lots of conversation with other restauranteurs and chefs, the consensus is the business as we known it is over, absent a vaccine. eg., for our petit boîte to survive, we have to remove 3 tables, 1/3 of the seating capacity to accommodate the new/not enforced rules. 6' between tables. Lets look at other adapt and overcome situations the industry has incurred, living in challenging times, lets recount...77-79 gas crises, Iran hostage, the 1980's were bank city, 1990 crash, then the .com kick in the ass, followed by 2001 WTC, then the 2008 banking crises,
now cover-19. Looking back, I am convinced we will find a way forward and thrive.

I absolutely agree with WarriorDiplomat.

Entrepreneurs will find the way forward.

Talking to restaurant tech folks in Australia, one thing I’m noticing is that while technology in aggregate is good, aspects of it are net negative for restaurants.

Prior to COVID-19, restaurants were in big trouble down here in Aus/NZ.

And the app based delivery services(UberEats, Deliveroo, DoorDash, Grubhub) were like a pack of hyenas eating restaurant margin and getting between customers and restaurants.

I reckon most of these apps will fail, and those that don’t will be beaten by platforms that benefit both customers AND restaurants, rather than raping one or both.

A classmate of mine raised $500m USD for app based food delivery in Brazil’s favelas.

It’s madness. The numbers don’t stack up.

If he didn’t take the VC deal(dominate with too much money) his next competitor would, but either way too much money is chasing too little likely return.

Those that make it out the back end will be better for it.

Historically, a high proportion of the world’s best value creators are forged and launch in tough times.

[Airbornelawyer]

imho, based on lots of conversation with other restauranteurs and chefs, the consensus is the business as we known it is over, absent a vaccine. eg., for our petit boîte to survive, we have to remove 3 tables, 1/3 of the seating capacity to accommodate the new/not enforced rules. 6' between tables. Lets look at other adapt and overcome situations the industry has incurred, living in challenging times, lets recount...77-79 gas crises, Iran hostage, the 1980's were bank city, 1990 crash, then the .com kick in the ass, followed by 2001 WTC, then the 2008 banking crises,
now cover-19. Looking back, I am convinced we will find a way forward and thrive.
The Asian Flu (H2N2) pandemic of 1957-58 killed an estimated 116,000 people in the USA. The US population was 172 million in 1957 and 175 million in 1958, so that would be equivalent to about 219,000 deaths today, based on a U.S. population of 328 million.

The 1968 (H3N2) pandemic killed approximately 100,000. Like COVID-19, many, if not most of the deaths were among people older than 65, so it is hard to tell how many were excess deaths. The year 1968 is when the US population passed 200 million, so adjusting for population that would be equivalent to about 164,000 deaths today.

Does anyone recall these leading to any accommodations or adaptations to the way we lived our lives or organized our society, other than what-should-be-obvious individual adjustments like "don't forget to wash your hands"?

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1957-1958-pandemic.html
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic.html

[Golf1echo]

The Asian Flu (H2N2) pandemic of 1957-58 killed an estimated 116,000 people in the USA. The US population was 172 million in 1957 and 175 million in 1958, so that would be equivalent to about 219,000 deaths today, based on a U.S. population of 328 million.

The 1968 (H3N2) pandemic killed approximately 100,000. Like COVID-19, many, if not most of the deaths were among people older than 65, so it is hard to tell how many were excess deaths. The year 1968 is when the US population passed 200 million, so adjusting for population that would be equivalent to about 164,000 deaths today.

Does anyone recall these leading to any accommodations or adaptations to the way we lived our lives or organized our society, other than what-should-be-obvious individual adjustments like "don't forget to wash your hands"?

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1957-1958-pandemic.html
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic.html

Never paid much attention to the totality of deaths from pandemics, never knew anyone who died. I was surprised to see this on Web Md https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20180927/80000-americans-died-from-flu-last-year. What is hard to be surprised by is liberals taking advantage of a crisis, they have an incredible record of doing so.

Libya, Haiti, Ukraine, Iran, china, their own States, etc...

If I was an investigator I would get copies of Nan’s travel itinerary and start with that!

[Badger52]

Does anyone recall these leading to any accommodations or adaptations to the way we lived our lives or organized our society, other than what-should-be-obvious individual adjustments like "don't forget to wash your hands"?The short answer to your question on both is "No." I was a kid for one of 'em, but don't even recall these things as being a monumental impact, or of seeing any concern in my parents, no change in school routines, no social/economic impacts...
Gahr nichts, Nada, Zip.
:munchin

[JJ_BPK]

Does anyone recall these leading to any accommodations or adaptations to the way we lived our lives or organized our society, other than what-should-be-obvious individual adjustments like "don't forget to wash your hands"?


1958, 10YO, running carefree, my mother was a private duty RN, most weekend parties involved several of her RN buddies w/families, don't remember hearing or doing anything related to flues or virus.

1969, 21YO, running my a$$ off at Ft Benning & Ft Bragg, spent July & August in KW, no lockdowns, no fever ck's, NADA...

:munchin

[Penn]

ABNLawyer, that’s a fascinating bit of comparative research, do you think we have been manipulated? Should we have shut down based on the death ratio btw the 1957/58 and 1968 vs Covid-19. imo, the decision of not shutting down and dealing with a fully 24/7 MSM cycle, would have been viewed as a catastrophic mistake by Trump, if 216K possible deaths were the result of that decision, which errs on the side of caution and electability.

The economy takes a hit, but fault is laid at the alter of caution, he gets a pass, but to consider a possible force/group capable of orchestrating a virus pandemic, would point to a worldwide conspiracy complicit with DNC goals. Not far removed from a recent foreign power inclusion with the leadership of the DNC and NSA(Clapper), CIA (Brennan), FBI (Comedy). Have I now reached the Tin Foil membership standard?

The only action in motion currently is the lockdown continuation linking the need for mail in voting and harvesting as necessary.

JJ 1969, 21YO, running my a$$ off at Ft Benning & Ft Bragg, spent July & August in KW, no lockdowns, no fever ck's, NADA...

When I think of Bragg, the first though is always the heat from that summer in 1969. Arrived 7/24.

[Flagg]

The Asian Flu (H2N2) pandemic of 1957-58 killed an estimated 116,000 people in the USA. The US population was 172 million in 1957 and 175 million in 1958, so that would be equivalent to about 219,000 deaths today, based on a U.S. population of 328 million.

The 1968 (H3N2) pandemic killed approximately 100,000. Like COVID-19, many, if not most of the deaths were among people older than 65, so it is hard to tell how many were excess deaths. The year 1968 is when the US population passed 200 million, so adjusting for population that would be equivalent to about 164,000 deaths today.

Does anyone recall these leading to any accommodations or adaptations to the way we lived our lives or organized our society, other than what-should-be-obvious individual adjustments like "don't forget to wash your hands"?

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1957-1958-pandemic.html
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic.html

I’ve superficially referenced the ‘58 and ‘68 Asian flus before this outbreak.

But I wasn’t aware they had even made it to the US, or had many US deaths attributed to them.

Two key differences between then and now is the substantially higher average travel, particularly intercontinental point to point, but also domestic travel, is a more dangerous vector today than yesterday.

And increased urbanisation(pop density for majority, although not all).

There’s certainly going to be a whole lot of interesting AARs coming out the back end of this, although it’s safe to say some partisan AARs will probably already have been written.

[Badger52]

...although it’s safe to say some partisan AARs will probably already have been written.X-ring, with certainty sir.
The CDC probably has theirs at least 1/2 done in DRAFT, and it will include a lot of "not invented here = bad."

[Box]

One thing is certain - Wuhan Pneumonia has helped accelerate the devolution of modern society. Politicians seem to get worse by the day and people seem to be entertained by political incompetence instead of enraged.
I am giving up drinking for a month.

Sorry... bad punctuation in that last sentence - it should say:
I'm giving up. Drinking for a month.

[Badger52]

Chinese prop artists attempting to solicit good reviews from US states backfires in Wisconsin. Breitbart (https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2020/04/17/china-tries-fails-get-wisconsin-pass-law-praising-beijing-on-coronavirus/) cites a Radio Free Asia article.

Radio Free Asia (RFA) reported on Thursday that the Chinese Communist Party’s (CCP) outrageous effort to pressure the legislature of Wisconsin to pass a resolution praising Beijing for its handling of the coronavirus effort “backfired spectacularly,” leading to a motion that will condemn the CCP for lying to the world if it passes.

The Chinese consulate sent emails in February and March to Wisconsin Senate President Roger Roth, a Republican, urging him to pass a resolution praising China. The emails even contained the text of a resolution written by the CCP for the Wisconsin legislature to rubber stamp, praising the Chinese government for being “transparent and quick in sharing key information of the virus with the WHO and the international community” – the exact opposite of what actually happened.

Roth told the Wisconsin Examiner in an interview last week he was so stunned by the audacity of the first email, and its dubious origin from a Hotmail account, that he dismissed it as a prank. When he received a follow-up email from the consulate in March, he instructed his staff to research it, and they determined it was a genuine communique from the Chinese consulate, whose diplomats sometimes use Hotmail and other public email services because they are “faster” than their official email accounts.

Roth fired back a one-word response to the CCP: “Nuts.” This was the answer famously given by American commander Brig. Gen. Anthony McAuliffe when a different gang of fascists demanded his surrender at Bastogne in 1944.

“I was mad as hell,” Roth told RFA on Thursday.
So far the Wisconsin story appears to have elicited very little response from those who previously claimed foreign intervention in American politics was the worst crime imaginable.

[Pete]

"Nuts"

Gotta' love it

Wonder how many other states got the memo?

[JJ_BPK]

"Nuts"

Gotta' love it

Wonder how many other states got the memo?

and kept the contribution to their re-election campaign? :munchin

[Badger52]

didn't get the coronavirus. (https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/30/wisconsin-52-of-400000-in-person-primary-voters-diagnosed-with-coronavirus-no-fatalities/)

But that's just AA ball compared to the South Koreans (https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2020/04/30/south-korea-no-coronavirus-cases-linked-to-in-person-national-election/):
South Korea successfully held in-person elections this month without finding evidence for a single coronavirus transmission at an election station, South Korea’s Ministry of Health and Welfare (MOHW) announced this week, the Epoch Times reported on Thursday.
“Twenty-nine million voters participated in the April 15 parliamentary election. … Not one [coronavirus] case related to the election has been reported during the 14 days of incubation period,” Yoon Tae-ho, MOHW’s director-general for public health policy, said at a press briefing.

Yoon thanked staff and voters who followed safety measures during elections, which included requiring voters to wear masks and gloves when casting ballots, maintaining at least a three-foot distance from one another, and regular disinfection of polling stations, according to the Epoch Times.

Now what was all that claptrap about national mail-in voting?

[Old Dog New Trick]

Now what was all that claptrap about national mail-in voting?

Keep your eye on the nut shell and don’t get distracted!

[Swoop]

Keep your eye on the nut shell and don’t get distracted!

Which one.....Pelosi, AOC, Schumer, Schiff? The list of nut shells just keeps growing :munchin

[Badger52]

Keep your eye on the nut shell and don’t get distracted!Precisely. The question was rhetorical, as they're going to push that one hard.

[Box]

Society is stupid.

How many people are already talking with clear indication that they have conflated "the test" with being a cure???

The test saves lives - we need more testing
blah blah blah

Patient: Hey Doc, I have no symptoms - I feel fine, no fever, no aches, no sore thorat. Never felt better.
...can I get a test to make sure I'm not dying.
Doc: Sure thing.... you're clean. Another life saved by the test !!!

Patient: - I'm 72, fever, sore throat, aches, cough, short of breath, lots of problems, can I get a test?
Doc: Sure..... you've got COVID-19, its a good thing you got the test !!!
Patient: Thats great doc I'm feeling better alrea..................
Media: PRESIDNET TRUMP KILLED THIS MAN !!!!



THAT is the real societal impact of "the virus" - society demonstrating or collective ignorance and stupidity.

[JJ_BPK]

PRC takes on the USA via LEGO Battle Bots

PS: Lego denies any involvement if film. :munchin


Chinese state media releases animated propaganda video mocking US coronavirus response, By Tracey Shelton and Iris Zhao, Posted Yesterday

A Chinese state media outlet has released an animated video using Lego pieces to mock the United States' coronavirus response and the Trump Administration's claims of an initial Chinese COVID-19 coverup.

Entitled Once Upon a Virus, the short animation — released by China's official Xinhua news agency — takes the form of a back-and-forth between China and the US with China being represented by a Lego terracotta warrior and a team of hazmat wearing characters, and the US by the Statue of Liberty.

The dialogue begins with the Chinese warrior who stated they had discovered a dangerous new virus, to which the Statue of Liberty replied:

"It's only a flu ... Don't wear a mask", adding that China's "stay at home" measures were a violation of human rights.


Key points:


Personified Lego characters representing the US and China satirised the Trump Administration
The videos appear to be part of China's retort to claims over its coronavirus mismanagement
Donald Trump has continued to repeat an unverified claim about the virus's origin


The video purports that the US did not heed warnings from the Chinese Government but later accused China of "giving false data".

Last month, US president Donald Trump accused both China and the World Health Organization (WHO) of a COVID-19 cover-up, saying "the world received all sorts of false information about transmission and mortality".

The animation makes reference to the US's decision to halt funding of the WHO, which Mr Trump said promoted China's "disinformation" about the virus, "failed in its basic duty" and "must be held accountable".

"The WHO failed to investigate credible reports from sources in Wuhan that conflicted directly with the Chinese government's official accounts," Mr Trump said at the time.

link: ABC AU news article (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-01/china-state-media-propaganda-video-mock-us-coronavirus/12204836)


link: twitter Lego film (https://twitter.com/i/status/1255734356728922113)

link: UT Lego film https://www.*******.com/watch?v=Q5BZ09iNdvo

[Surf n Turf]

You can’t make this stuff up. This just gets so good, you just have to believe that it’s a parody of life in some dystopian world that makes “Idiocracy” a documentary.

SnT

California city official says COVID-19 should be allowed to ‘fix’ society by culling elderly, weak and homeless

By NANCY DILLON NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

A California city official said COVID-19 should be allowed to run its course, killing elderly and homeless residents to “fix what is a significant burden on our society.”

Now his public position could be a pandemic-era casualty, and he’s calling that a violation of his rights.

Ken Turnage, a member of the city planning commission in Antioch, said in a now-deleted April 23 Facebook post that coronavirus lockdowns should be lifted to “let nature take its course.”

“We would have significant loss of life, we would lose many elderly, that would reduce burdens in our defunct Social Security System, health care cost — once the wave subsided — make jobs available for others and it would also free up housing in which we are in dire need of,” Turnage 47, wrote, according to the East Bay Times.

In another excerpt reported by SFGate.com, Turnage said the natural spread of COVID-19 would also cull the “herd” of other people he considered undesirable.

“Then we have our other sectors such as our homeless and other people who just defile themselves by either choice or mental issues,” he wrote. “This would run rampant through them and yes I am sorry but this would fix what is a significant burden on our Society and resources that can be used.”

Antioch’s mayor, Steve Wright, called for a special city council meeting Friday night to recommend Turnage be removed from the Planning Commission.

In an email to the Daily News, Turnage said he’s fighting the move. He doubled down on his position and shared the comments he planned to submit for the special meeting.

“It is disheartening that I am being removed due to a personal opinion that has nothing to do with the city or my position on the planning commission. My opinion that I opened for debate is based on the theory of Ecological Balance which is science,” he wrote.

“Yes, I do understand that it is a difficult topic and even prefaced that if people are unable to handle an alternate opinion don’t read any further,” he said.
“The idea of letting nature run its course was practiced by Sweden and at first The World Health Organization was strictly against it! Now as of yesterday, The World Health Organization says we should learn from Sweden! Ironic isn’t it?” he wrote.

WHO expert says Sweden could be a 'model' on coronavirus response »
“This virus is targeting certain sectors of the World. I did not decide these sectors or create this virus. I merely spoke on what could potentially happen to those sectors plus others including myself,” he said. “Yes my analogies in hindsight could have been different to make the same point, for that I am sorry but hindsight is 20/20.”

Turnage said removing him from office, based on his opinions, would be a violation of his First Amendment right to free speech.
An agenda posted online said the city council meeting would start at 7 p.m. local time and be streamed live.

“It is recommended that the City Council make a motion to remove Commissioner Kenneth Turnage, II from the City of Antioch Planning Commission and direct the City Clerk to advertise the vacancy of one partial-term on the Planning Commission,” the agenda item said.

https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-calif-official-who-said-coronavirus-could-fix-society-may-lose-job-20200501-crcpsikwejbnvpahwo5racbdgm-story.html

[Badger52]

You can’t make this stuff up. This just gets so good, you just have to believe that it’s a parody of life in some dystopian world that makes “Idiocracy” a documentary.

SnTThat guy would be right at home with the Horizon Project in Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six.

[Flagg]

That guy would be right at home with the Horizon Project in Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six.

Speaking of eco-terrorists, this one stinks like a climate change version of Baader-meinhoff’s first generation movement

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8289921/Scientist-advice-led-lockdown-QUITS-breaking-restrictions-meet-married-lover.html

Zero remorse, guilt , or shame on the part of the Red Army Frau.

[Penn]

Humanoids whole experiences has been a constant battle to tame the environment. The lockdown is just another example of that process. Is the idea callus, yes. Is he wrong, well, he just ventured into that rare place where angels fear to tread.

[Box]

Speaking of eco-terrorists, this one stinks like a climate change version of Baader-meinhoff’s first generation movement

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8289921/Scientist-advice-led-lockdown-QUITS-breaking-restrictions-meet-married-lover.html

Zero remorse, guilt , or shame on the part of the Red Army Frau.


More reason why I have added public health officials to my list of people than are as untrustworthy as a stereotypical politicians.
...and he was "allowed" to quit. Should have been tarred and feathered in the town square - and then hung from the neck until dead. INstead he gets to play the "take this job and shove it" card.

Two legal systems in this world - one for thee and one for me

[Ret10Echo]

Sooooo.....



The Connecticut Department of Public Health issued its first $1,000 fines on Monday to two individuals who Gov. Ned Lamont said failed to comply with the travel advisory for residents who return home from states with high COVID-19 infection rates.

So, you may ask yourself how they found out?

Lamont said a coworker had notified state officials that the person was not complying with Lamont’s executive order. Officials received a tip about the other person as well.

Welcome to 1984 folks.... Trust NO ONE


Link Here (https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2020/08/10/connecticut-issues-first-1000-fines-to-travel-violators)

[Trapper John]

And once again I have to say....tell me how we are different from China?????:mad:

[Box]

...its the ONLY way