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Old 03-22-2020, 18:27   #1
Penn
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Social Impact of Wuhan Virus

Multi threads on this outrageous assault on western civilization are needed, and is obvious to anyone with a social science background, there is so much to analysis. But, make no mistake, this will alter our society in the extreme. That said, the social fabric that hold a society together is the common value system, belief system, political, etc., etc, could be lost to a sever break in civility.

In moo, this a target collapse on fragile system, studied, while holding all the resources hostage due to shortsighted globalist ideals. The long game and a brilliant execution, how to respond, or if the will exist to do so.

It's only going to get worse.

https://www.jpost.com/International/...over-60-621856

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Old 03-22-2020, 19:08   #2
5thgrp"C"
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Maybe?

Data from NYC shows no deaths in the 0-40 yr old range, and the city accounts for 1/3 of our Country's cases.

What if this continues until mid-late summer and then through herd immunity it peters out? Everyone comes out of their homes and the world continues without the unhealthiest/unluckiest 1%?

Everyone that has the disease today has the possibility to be back on their feet in 2 weeks. So work might not have to stop completely.

I'm not saying it can't go bad but there are no right answers in an unpredictable situation. With 8 billion people all focused on the same target we have to have some affect on this thing. Add to that the level of education, technology, communications, and organization our entire World possesses and we have never had a better chance to minimize the damage of this bug.
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Old 03-22-2020, 19:20   #3
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Originally Posted by 5thgrp"C" View Post
Maybe?

Data from NYC shows no deaths in the 0-40 yr old range, and the city accounts for 1/3 of our Country's cases.

What if this continues until mid-late summer and then through herd immunity it peters out? Everyone comes out of their homes and the world continues without the unhealthiest/unluckiest 1%?

Everyone that has the disease today has the possibility to be back on their feet in 2 weeks. So work might not have to stop completely.

I'm not saying it can't go bad but there are no right answers in an unpredictable situation. With 8 billion people all focused on the same target we have to have some affect on this thing. Add to that the level of education, technology, communications, and organization our entire World possesses and we have never had a better chance to minimize the damage of this bug.
We are talking of the bigger picture not the virus itself but the response to it that has just opened up a massive weakness in western culture that is prime for exploitation.....watch the markets and wonder if Chinese business interests are buying stock and so on and so on.....if this isn't it.....it is the perfect primer for a dramatic shift of world power
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Old 03-22-2020, 19:24   #4
5thgrp"C"
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I would argue this is the perfect situation for the strong to get stronger. In this universal turmoil the U.S. has the best odds to come out the furthest ahead.
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Old 03-22-2020, 19:24   #5
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Originally Posted by Penn View Post
That said, the social fabric that hold a society together is the common value system, belief system, political, etc., etc, could be lost to a sever break in civility.
The social fabric was already stretched thin along political/ideaological lines, and Corona Virus seems to fall along those lines as well. The reason I say this is because I was shamed on a neighborhood app for suggesting that the lack of N95's and Test Kits might have something to do with red tape, bureaucracy and the FDA, and that the US has had 44 years to prepare for a pandemic. On top of that Libs I work for overwhelmingly fault Trump for any of the shortages due to Corona, many also believe that Medicare for All would solve this crisis and most believe in government intervention.....they parrot CNN talking points. On the other hand Conservatives are discussing numbers, making comparisons and don't believe anyone could be totally prepared for an unknown like Corona.

Now we are on a 30 day lock down and all the stores are rationing. Everybody I have run into is in good spirits, we'll see were we are in 3-4.
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Old 03-22-2020, 19:38   #6
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5thGrp"C"
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I would argue this is the perfect situation for the strong to get stronger. In this universal turmoil the U.S. has the best odds to come out the furthest ahead.
This is not about strength, its power to execute a strategy. imo, that has been executed by the Chinese they are in control, we are reacting to a situation, a negative by any standard.

EDIT TO ADD: this is Congresswoman AOC Tweet today, do not think for moment these events and discourse are not connected:

One enormous, major lesson that I hope people realize in this moment:

Resistance to revolutionary policy was never really about a lack of money, or capacity, or logistics.

It was always about power and a lack of political will.


4:52 PM · Mar 20, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
23K Retweets 102.2K Likes

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Old 03-22-2020, 19:43   #7
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This event does create the potential for massive shifts in power, policies, wealth and yes ethics as both Penn and WarriorDiplomat have observed. VDH shares some observations on these matters.

There should be no doubt now, that we need to bring manufacturing home (Trump has said this from day 1) and then hold China accountable both publicly and privately.

This economic shutdown is a high wire act that we must not lose and yes we are reacting. However, as 5thgrp”c” just suggested - the US is potentially positioned to be much stronger after this event.

Will Italy ever trust China again ? Should the EU? Never. Communists have a tendency to treat life very cheaply...and the chicoms are no different despite their cheap labor, cheap products and cheap loans. Fuck ‘em - they are parasites that will kill the host in a heartbeat. They have been exposed on the world stage for what they are to any thinking person. Now, we need to get this country back to work as soon as we can !

China Boomeranging

Victor Davis Hanson
National Review
3/17/2020

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/...n-world-stage/

Its bad behavior in the wake of COVID-19 will leave it in its weakest global position in memory. And the U.S. will emerge stronger.


Sometime in late November the Chinese Communist Party apparat was aware that the ingredients of some sort of an epidemic were brewing in Wuhan. Soon after, it was also clear to them that a new type of coronavirus was on the loose, a threat they might have taken more seriously given the similar Chinese origins of the prior toxic SARS coronavirus and the resources of a Level 4 virology lab nearby.
Yet the government initially hid all that knowledge from its own people in particular and in general from the world at large. Translated into American terms, that disingenuousness ensured that over 10,000 Chinese nationals and foreigners living in China flew every day on direct flights into the United States (Washington and California especially) from late November to the beginning of February, until the Trump travel ban of January 31.

All this laxity was also known to the Communist apparat in Beijing, which must have been amused when Trump was roundly damned by his liberal critics as a xenophobe and racist for finally daring to stop the influx on January 31 — the first major leader to enact such a total ban.

Yet, no thanks to the Chinese, America, so far, has been comparatively lucky — despite the grave risks of damaging a multi-trillion-dollar economy with the strictest quarantining, isolation policies, and social distancing in its history. Half the country lives in the interior away from ports of entry on the coasts. Medical care, sanitation, hygiene, and meat markets operate on different premises than in China, the supposed fated global hegemon. Transparency in a consensual society together with a free-market economy is encouraging tens of millions of citizens to work in tandem and independently to figure out creative ways to ameliorate the epidemic, politically, medically, socially, and economically. The result is that as of mid-March, the U.S., the world’s foremost immigration destination and among the most visited of nations, had suffered fewer virus fatalities than some European countries a fifth or sixth of its population size.

No doubt when mass testing begins, the figures of known cases will soar, and fatalities will rise. Yet while we know pretty well the number of Americans who have died from the virus, we have in truth little idea of how many now carry it or how many have recovered from it, without knowing what sickened them or even whether they were ostensibly sick at all. In other words, the rate of new cases identified by testing may exceed the rate of new deaths, apprising us of a more precise — and perhaps lower — degree of viral toxicity.

Whereas annual flu toxicity is adjudicated by modeling case numbers, and by sophisticated and learned guesses at the number of likely infections, so far the death rate of the coronavirus is calibrated a bit differently — apparently predicated both on known deaths and known cases. When we make facile comparisons between the flu and coronaviruses, they may prove valid, but for now it’s still wise to remember that annual flu cases could be fewer than what is guessed at through modeling each year, and corona infections may be higher than the current known numbers of confirmed positives. The former reality might mean that the flu is at times a little more lethal than we think and the corona virus a little less deadly. That is not to suggest that most strains of flu are as lethal as the coronavirus, only that for the vast majority of Americans the current U.S. COVID-19 case-to-fatality ratio of 2 percent may eventually prove less, and influenza’s commonly cited 0.01 lethality rate may prove higher. In any case, 98–99 percent of Americans may well recover from the coronavirus — a rate that is not typical of most of history’s plagues.

The realities are paradoxical: If the coronavirus infects as many Americans as an average flu strain, then ten times more Americans could die — mostly over the age of 65 — even as the vast majority of all Americans will not. Statistics change hourly, but the CDC as of the afternoon of March 16 reports that there are currently 3,437 cases of known coronavirus infections and 68 deaths attributed to the virus, or about two deaths per 100 infected — the majority of them again likely over 65.

To the degree that we are suffering death and economic hurt from COVID-19, we can also attribute the toll to the Chinese Communist Party. Had it just called in the international medical community in late November, instituted early quarantines, and allowed its own citizens to use email and social media to apprise and warn others of the new disease, then the world and the U.S. would probably not have found themselves in the current panic. The reasons China did not act more responsibly may be inherent in communist governments, or they may involve more Byzantine causes left to be disclosed.

Add in the proximity of a Level 4 virology lab nearby Ground Zero of COVID-19, which fueled Internet conspiracy theories; the weird rumors about quite strange animals such as snakes and pangolins birthing the infection in primeval open meat markets stocked with live animals in filthy conditions in cages; and pirated videos of supposed patients dropping comatose in crowded hospital hallways. With all of that, we had the ingredients of a Hollywood zombie movie, adding to the frenzy.

Plus, 2020 is an election year — echoing how the 1976 swine flu was politicized. The Left and its media appendages saw COVID-19 as able to do what John Brennan, James Clapper, James Comey, and Andrew McCabe, the Mueller team, and impeachment could not: destroy the hated Trump presidency.

China will rue what it begat.

That is, it will come to appreciate fully that the supposed efficiency, ruthlessness, and autocracy of the Communist Party — what had so impressed foolish American journalists who once marveled at Beijing’s ability to enact by fiat liberal pet projects such as high-speed rail and solar industries — were China’s worst enemies, ensuring that the virus would spread and that China’s international reputation would be ruined.

The coronavirus could be the straw that breaks the proverbial back of the Chinese camel, stooped under the recent weight of a trade war with the U.S., the revelation of 1 million Uighurs in reeducation camps, the crackdown on Hong Kong democracy protesters, and news of the sprawling Chinese internal-surveillance apparat. The world is now both terrified and put off by China, and such anathemas will only harm its already suspect and misbegotten Silk Road neocolonial schemes.

Here in the U.S., COVID-19 will create bipartisan pressure to adopt policies of keeping key U.S. industries — such as medical supplies, pharmaceuticals, and military applied high-tech — in America. Americans will not again wish to outsource the vast majority of their chemotherapy-drug, antibiotic, and heart-medicine production to a government that cannot be trusted and that sees such globalized output as a weapon to be used in extremis.

Although we cannot see it now, spin-off effects from the panic and frenzy will eventually fuel more economic recovery. Oil prices are nearing record modern lows, ensuring cheap gas for spring and summer American drivers. Cheap mortgages and car loans likewise will spur buying, as will relief once the virus wanes and splurging ensue.

It will be salutary for Americans to once again appreciate the value of muscular labor, as those who grow food, transport it, and provide us energy and sanitation while protecting us from danger, foreign and domestic, have allowed millions of Americans to stay home, sequestered and quarantined but safe with plenty of food, water, and uninterrupted sanitation and public safety. In these days of crisis, we should not forget that millions of often unmentioned Americans have made us the world’s greatest energy and most diverse food producer — a singular position that China, with over four times our population, envies.

Before the outbreak, China was trying to game its trade war in terms of how best to hurt the hated Trump administration. Ironically, its abhorrence only strengthened the U.S. in ways no one in the pre-COVID-19 days could have imagined.

Call it paradox, irony, karma, or even tragedy, but China emerges from its deceit about the coronavirus outbreak in its weakest position since its Westernization began under Deng Xiaoping. And the U.S., after some rocky months ahead, if it stays calm, will likely reemerge in its strongest state in memory vis-à-vis its rivals.
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Old 03-22-2020, 19:59   #8
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TonyZ, imo we are way pass all that shit. If I were them, I be cocking the trigger.

A pathogen controls the political world right now, the world over every political figure is scared shitless. Find a picture of Merkel, There one of Trump that is very telling, then find one of Jinpeng, its smug.

Also, the virus has been particularly evident in the growing devastation in Europe, North America, we are just awaking to the fact that the Chinese own us.
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Old 03-22-2020, 20:14   #9
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Penn, you are wrong.

China owns Walmart, Walmart does not own America! Walmart is an American business that can change how it does business and who it gets product from.

If the FCC shut down all mass media tonight, except for official public radio and public broadcasting after a brief 24 hours of mass panic things would settle down a lot over the next 72 hours.

The “social” impact of this is being fanned for purely political reasons and it part of a continuing scorched earth policy.
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Old 03-22-2020, 20:15   #10
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Penn the pathogen is serious - but reportedly 80+% survive and come out ok (less than 3% die - while very serious it should not create the panic this is creating) If it were like Ebola then yes, especially if they have a vaccine - they win. But that is not the case here.

If we don’t kill our own economy (or healthcare system) ourselves I do believe that we should come out the other side - but not without a tragic and wholly unnecessary loss of life (and big hopefully short-term hit to our economy)- loss of life (and economic hardship) because of the Chinese Communist Party.

The Chicoms have been laid bare on the public stage - this may be a Chicom opportunity - but moo given the survivability of this pathogen - this is not their time, yet.

If we are smart they will never own us again. Based on China’s actions during this event - the EU should curtail business relations with China going forward. That could result in additional opportunity for the US.

For the Chicoms and our other adversaries they are undoubtedly observing and plotting - it’s the next evolution that will be for all the marbles.
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Old 03-22-2020, 20:16   #11
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I would argue this is the perfect situation for the strong to get stronger. In this universal turmoil the U.S. has the best odds to come out the furthest ahead.
I think you are missing the point here the western societies are the ones in turmoil not so much the Russians or Chinese
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Old 03-22-2020, 20:31   #12
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Penn, you are wrong.

China owns Walmart, Walmart does not own America! Walmart is an American business that can change how it does business and who it gets product from.

Yes of course it but the U.S. political response to the tariffs on China to slow its intellectual theft etc....was an indicator of how in love America is with cheap Chinese knock offs especially those sold at Walmart

If the FCC shut down all mass media tonight, except for official public radio and public broadcasting after a brief 24 hours of mass panic things would settle down a lot over the next 72 hours.

Not so sure the leftists have still not settled down since 2016....there is political maneuvering taking advantage of this opportunity as we speak

The “social” impact of this is being fanned for purely political reasons and it part of a continuing scorched earth policy.
The social impact is being fanned and it is real the politicians are reacting to avoid political suicide in the face of this...initially it was reasonable but the opportunities are too good to ignore and they are starting to seize them...the social impact of the governed in this situation is perfect for power shifts being it is out of our hands as the government has a responsibility to act to protect us and therefore have total power over the governed as consent is irrelevant at this time. Also lets remember that any publicly traded company is fair game as far as I know under the SEC rules especially in todays global economic scheme right now the response of the government on the economy has created openings for a dramatic shift in economic power which equals world power especially when it comes to owning resources
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Old 03-22-2020, 20:59   #13
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Okay all so here’s a question.

How much control China has over America and the American psyche?

What happened when one “coach” took a position to “tweeted” support for Honk Kong protesters during the NBA International joint games in mainland China? (Immediate condemnations from everyone including the players bought and paid for by the Chinese.)

Here’s the question: What was the first national sports organization to shutter its courts and close the public access to games before abandoning the season all together? *

Bonus question: which athletes had Coronavirus before anyone else?

* not a single whimper from the players.
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Old 03-22-2020, 21:08   #14
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Okay all so here’s a question.

How much control China has over America and the American psyche?

What happened when one “coach” took a position to “tweeted” support for Honk Kong protesters during the NBA International joint games in mainland China? (Immediate condemnations from everyone including the players bought and paid for by the Chinese.)

Here’s the question: What was the first national sports organization to shutter its courts and close the public access to games before abandoning the season all together?

Bonus question: which athletes had Coronavirus before anyone else?
It isn't the control it has it is the response of western society propagated by the medias sensationalism and the resulting outcome from this.......it was an accidental release and the response was unexpected is possible.....the intentional release and the same result and response was a unexpected reaction....or this was a recce by fire scenario.....no matter how you look at it the response and current chaos is the issue as much as the virus. Case in point the media is doing a great job of spreading fear and panic just today they reported 32,000 reported cases so I went to the CDC for its most current and they say 15,000+....the culture of western society has just shown its soft underbelly to an opposing ideology
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Old 03-22-2020, 22:18   #15
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Heard today from RVing friends who recently moved to the south of France to be with the wife's ailing father. To go anywhere, even to walk the dog, they have to fill out and print a government form explaining why they are on the streets. They also have to have valid ID on them. Failure to do this incurs an 375 Euro fine. Again, they live in a small village in the south.
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