View Full Version : Tennessee's first female 12B goes AWOL
http://www.local8now.com/content/news/First-woman-in-Tennessee-to-enlist-as-combat-engineer-goes-AWOL-367601961.html
She must have figured out that her recruiter lied to her about operating a dozer in the Combat Engineers. Evidently she was on convalescent leave and decided not to come back.
Iowa NG has it's first female 12 B enlistee, she was on the news the other night and proclaimed how women can do the same things as men. There will be some 12B tasks that she will do as good as any man but it will not be all of the 12B tasks. Which means others in her squad will have to make up the slack.
CAARNG 68W
02-04-2016, 14:35
Spokesperson Tiffany Wood issued a statement saying, "After 30 days in an AWOL status, a Soldier is considered a deserter and a
federal warrant is issued for his or her arrest. "
Wood says once Private Erika Lopez is arrested she'll be taken to the nearest military installment and handed over to military police.
I had no idea feminism could turn a woman into a wanted criminal
The Reaper
02-04-2016, 14:45
So, the net effect of this experiment is that the Army has wasted the training and the unit is missing an Engineer private.
I will wager she is chaptered out with little if any punishment and no publicity.
TR
Well she proved that she was as good at going AWOL as any male 12B would be. So I guess that can be seen as a small measure of success!
I certainly hope her punishment is equal to that which would be received by a male who committed the same crime.
We shall see...however, I highly doubt it.
I certainly hope her punishment is equal to that which would be received by a male who committed the same crime.
We shall see...however, I highly doubt it.
There will be no punishment, as that simply delays the process of getting her gone, which is what the unit probably wants anyway (oh, and her CIF Issue). Hopefully she was nice enough to leave all her gear in her locker. Or maybe the unit can get her to stop by the armory to turn it all in and sign some paperwork (which makes it easier and quicker then having to send certified mail and wait for the response that will never come). Maybe if they think they have to, they'll offer her a day's pay to incentivise her.
She'll get her General discharge and everyone will be happy.
Win Win.
There will be no punishment, as that simply delays the process of getting her gone, which is what the unit probably wants anyway (oh, and her CIF Issue). Hopefully she was nice enough to leave all her gear in her locker. Or maybe the unit can get her to stop by the armory to turn it all in and sign some paperwork (which makes it easier and quicker then having to send certified mail and wait for the response that will never come). Maybe if they think they have to, they'll offer her a day's pay to incentivise her.
She'll get her General discharge and everyone will be happy.
Win Win.
I'm not even sure she'll suffer the adverse effects of a "general" discharge. remember, the States operate under their own UCMJ. As a Guard member, she falls under the State. This is VERY common. Troops just walk away and never come back. A LOT of officers do this as well. In my last job we were responsible for the training of all the Reserve and Guard units throughout the Country (First Army). When the officers did this, the only thing we could do was to do a Withdrawal Of Federal Recognition (WOFR) packet on them. It just withdraws the ability of the officer to have any federal recognition of their State commission. The officers literally commit egregious criminal acts and so long as they are NOT on federal status at the time, there is NOTHING other than a WOFR the Army can do. Most often the States will do nothing as the troop will be prosecuted by the state criminal laws.
I could literally write a book on sexual assaults committed by NG soldiers just prior to being federalized and deployed overseas, (usually at the MOB station). The command KNOWING about it and deploying them anyways; and then having the vicim start raising hell when nothing is done against the perp while they are all downrange.
In my opinion, the whole Guard being "deployable" issue is a farce. Not worth the $$$ we sink into them for the few missions they are able to do overseas.
This kind of thing happens. Always has. Personally, I hope that she's okay and wonder if there were mitigating or extenuating reasons for her behavior. If not...well, that's a problem demanding a reasonable consequence.
Richard
Personally, I hope that she's okay and wonder if there were mitigating or extenuating reasons for her behavior.
I was thinking the same?? In the video interview she was very upbeat and POS..
I also think the MSM hyped up the "combat engineer" MOS. She would not be an IED specialist anytime soon. She would need,, maybe,, one rotation as a truck driver before she was trained to do IED mitigation??
An E2 is not "clearing IED's"... :munchin
DIYPatriot
02-05-2016, 09:04
I would sure hate to be one of her Drill Sgts right now. I'm sure someone is asking what they did or didn't do to set up her for success. Clearly, this can't be all Pvt Lopez's fault. :rolleyes:
Why the need to judge someone without knowing all the FACTS? That article doesn't say much. For all we know she could have been kidnapped or murdered.:munchin
I'm not even sure she'll suffer the adverse effects of a "general" discharge. remember, the States operate under their own UCMJ. As a Guard member, she falls under the State. This is VERY common. Troops just walk away and never come back. A LOT of officers do this as well. In my last job we were responsible for the training of all the Reserve and Guard units throughout the Country (First Army). When the officers did this, the only thing we could do was to do a Withdrawal Of Federal Recognition (WOFR) packet on them. It just withdraws the ability of the officer to have any federal recognition of their State commission. The officers literally commit egregious criminal acts and so long as they are NOT on federal status at the time, there is NOTHING other than a WOFR the Army can do. Most often the States will do nothing as the troop will be prosecuted by the state criminal laws.
I could literally write a book on sexual assaults committed by NG soldiers just prior to being federalized and deployed overseas, (usually at the MOB station). The command KNOWING about it and deploying them anyways; and then having the vicim start raising hell when nothing is done against the perp while they are all downrange.
In my opinion, the whole Guard being "deployable" issue is a farce. Not worth the $$$ we sink into them for the few missions they are able to do overseas.
Wow it’s been a few months since someone posted innuendo and gross generalizations bashing the ARNG as a whole for things that are an individual chain of command issue. The wait is officially over! As an added bonus in your case we get some good old fashioned professional officer bashing thrown in along with a 1st Army war story! It was breathtaking how you essentially lumped the majority of us ARNG Officers as criminals, rapists or those who would cover that stuff up. A very impressive troll indeed! I sincerely mean that.
But, don’t let my opinion stop you… No one ever does anything jacked up on Active Duty, no one has ever gotten off easy when they shouldn't have, the Army pursues and tracks down all AWOLS, and it has never deferred prosecution to allow civilian prosecution of an offense. :rolleyes:
By the way what "few missions" have the ARNG done overseas?
With golf shoes JimP. Seriously.
TOMAHAWK9521
02-05-2016, 11:28
Oh yeah. The guard is all screwed up. We all work at Walmart, Ace Hardware or as a part-time bagger at the local grocery store. Now, I know I'm just a former lowly 5/19 guy, but JimP, you might want to make sure you shake out your shorts after you finish pounding sand.
Team Sergeant
02-05-2016, 11:44
So, the net effect of this experiment is that the Army has wasted the training and the unit is missing an Engineer private.
I will wager she is chaptered out with little if any punishment and no publicity.
TR
I bet she receives more punishment than the coward, traitor and bottom feeding Bergdahl.....
I bet she receives more punishment than the coward, traitor and bottom feeding Bergdahl.....Not after the moment from, the reply about the men & women whom have served with the NG/AR.....:eek::D
Wow it’s been a few months since someone posted innuendo and gross generalizations bashing the ARNG as a whole for things that are an individual chain of command issue. The wait is officially over! As an added bonus in your case we get some good old fashioned professional officer bashing thrown in along with a 1st Army war story! It was breathtaking how you essentially lumped the majority of us ARNG Officers as criminals, rapists or those who would cover that stuff up. A very impressive troll indeed! I sincerely mean that.
But, don’t let my opinion stop you… No one ever does anything jacked up on Active Duty, no one has ever gotten off easy when they shouldn't have, the Army pursues and tracks down all AWOLS, and it has never deferred prosecution to allow civilian prosecution of an offense. :rolleyes:
By the way what "few missions" have the ARNG done overseas?
Strike a little too close to home?? Just calling them as I see them. I oversaw all 54 jurisdictions within the Guard. Laugh it off as you may; just telling you my experiences of ALL the States over a period of two years and numerous mobs.
I will agree that the Guard has some EXCELLENT officers as well as EXCELLENT NCO's. Folks that REALLY want to be there and do their jobs. I was NOT bashing the Guard. Just stated my opinion on the fiscal side that - in MY experience of 36 years in the military - the money we pay the Guard to do the missions we ask of them overseas is not worth it. Had you read the various studies (including the most recent Rand study) you might tend to agree. However, you are free to prove me wrong.
Not bashing you ABC - we're all on the same team.
Oh yeah. The guard is all screwed up. We all work at Walmart, Ace Hardware or as a part-time bagger at the local grocery store. Now, I know I'm just a former lowly 5/19 guy, but JimP, you might want to make sure you shake out your shorts after you finish pounding sand.
I'm not slamming you guys. WTF did you get that idea!!?? NOTHING will happen to her. Sadly - that is how most of these issues are dealt with.
I think I struck a little too close to home.
Prove me wrong if I'm all fucked up. I didn't see you all present when we had to deal with all the Congress critters when little suzy e-mailed them her tale of woe and how the Guard wouldn't/couldn't handle the discipline issues associated with the MOBs. Not just a unit issue....almost every State had issues. It's a lot to ask for the Guard to handle a mission based upon 29 days of training a year when the active duty army fucks it up all day long when they have all freaking year to train.
You can claim it all you want, but you simply cannot do the same things the active Army can do with only 29 days of training a year. Sorry...but that's the truth.
Guys, I apologize if it sounded as though I was bashing the Guard. That was NOT my intent!! I did NOT mean to demean anyone's service. Hell, I spent four years on a Reserve Scuba team that I would put up against ANY active duty team out there. My point was that in the criminal realm, it is extremely difficult to prosecute any of these cats due to the nature of the States varying processes and UCMJ schematic.
I'm proud to know you all and most of ya'll here have done FAR more than I ever thought of doing. Please don't think I am denigrating your service or branch.
AWOL female combat engineer recruit has turned herself in, By Michelle Tan, Army Times 4:27 p.m. EST February 5, 2016
Lopez arrived at Fort Leonard Wood Sept. 22, Wood said. She started training on Oct. 5 and was on week 11 of training when she was sent home on convalescent leave. Engineer soldiers conduct one station unit training at Fort Leonard Wood, which includes the 10-week basic training followed by advanced individual training. In all, the training is almost 15 weeks long.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2016/02/05/awol-female-combat-engineer-recruit-has-turned-herself/79889926/
The plot thickens..
CAARNG 68W
02-05-2016, 18:00
Oh yeah. The guard is all screwed up. We all work at Walmart, Ace Hardware or as a part-time bagger at the local grocery store. Now, I know I'm just a former lowly 5/19 guy, but JimP, you might want to make sure you shake out your shorts after you finish pounding sand.
Cal or Colo Guard?
WarriorDiplomat
02-05-2016, 20:45
Guys, I apologize if it sounded as though I was bashing the Guard. That was NOT my intent!! I did NOT mean to demean anyone's service. Hell, I spent four years on a Reserve Scuba team that I would put up against ANY active duty team out there. My point was that in the criminal realm, it is extremely difficult to prosecute any of these cats due to the nature of the States varying processes and UCMJ schematic.
I'm proud to know you all and most of ya'll here have done FAR more than I ever thought of doing. Please don't think I am denigrating your service or branch.
I didn't see any bashing in your original post I started out in the Guard.
The Reaper
02-05-2016, 21:12
It occurs to me that you get a stronger force by raising the standards and building teams, but I have only spent 30+ years in and around some of the nation's finest, WTF do I know?
Clearly, some think that doing the opposite is a better solution.
I wonder if they also believe that putting 50% female players on men's sports teams would improve their performance?
TR
Can you or someone help me determine what "Few missions" the ARNG can (and has) done overseas?
I'm just trying to get educated, that's all.
2018commo
02-06-2016, 06:02
Can you or someone help me determine what "Few missions" the ARNG can (and has) done overseas?
I'm just trying to get educated, that's all.
Resourced as a strategic reserve, deployed as a tactical reserve, what could go wrong? At 10% of the AD cost, assumed over 40% of the mission and casualties. The long tabbed little fuck stick who agreed to that and the TAGs who broke every unit in their states to support those deployments were and are the problem. The NG units should have shown up to the MOB station in their normal C/2-3 status as resourced. Honestly I am glad the 12B figured out this was not for her now, rather than jack up the units 1379 for the next four years.
ABC - I did NOT account for the NUMEROUS missions that the Guard SF guys were doing and for that I apologize. They have done a tremendous amount of tasks, missions and all around support in an innocuous environment.
My comments were on the conventional side of the house. For instance, spending an entire year training an artillery unit to go downrange and provide GS support and the moment they arrive in theater, they are shrugged off to some BS back-water area and given a new mission of area or route security.
That sets them up for failure and I don't think it's right.
My comments were not towards the Guard SF guys (just spoke with my old TS and he has done more in the last 13 years of war than almost anyone I know).
I obviously pissed off some tremendous professionals here so rather than think it is all "everyone else's fault", it obviously was what I said; or in how I failed to articulate my premise. For that - I apologize. No slamming you guys here - we're all on the same team.
I do believe that our National Security Strategy and current implementation guidance for the conventional forces of the Guard is seriously flawed. During the Clinton years when we hacked apart our active duty forces, we put the CS/CSS assets into the Reserves and transferred a LOT of our combat requirements to the Guard. The reasons for doing so were many but primarily political thus ensuring when we went to war that we took a cross-section of America with us. That everyone would know someone from "back home' currently engaged in the war.
I happen to think it is unfair and unachievable to expect the same results from the limited training we provide to the Guard to expect them to have the same capabilities as the Active Force.
ABC, MR2, Tomahawk, I apologize about what I said. It was NOT my intent to slam you guys. I will ensure I word my posts better in the future to avoid creating these inferences. I have nothing but respect for what the Guard/Reserve guys do. As stated, I spent 7 years of my career in the Active Reserve. Not sure how you guys do it for 20+ years and maintain a job and family life.
TOMAHAWK9521
02-06-2016, 09:07
I'm not slamming you guys. WTF did you get that idea!!?? NOTHING will happen to her. Sadly - that is how most of these issues are dealt with.
I think I struck a little too close to home.
Prove me wrong if I'm all fucked up. I didn't see you all present when we had to deal with all the Congress critters when little suzy e-mailed them her tale of woe and how the Guard wouldn't/couldn't handle the discipline issues associated with the MOBs. Not just a unit issue....almost every State had issues. It's a lot to ask for the Guard to handle a mission based upon 29 days of training a year when the active duty army fucks it up all day long when they have all freaking year to train.
You can claim it all you want, but you simply cannot do the same things the active Army can do with only 29 days of training a year. Sorry...but that's the truth.
My response may have a been a bit too harsh, as there is much truth in what you say about the average guard outfits. The tales of disbelief I could relay from Colorado alone are countless. However, more often than not, when I hear someone criticizing the guard, the guard SF somehow gets included. We did a wee bit more than 29 days of training a year than the regular troops. After many years of having to put up with condescending opinions and flat out insults from AD counterparts, usually from higher ranking personnel, I no longer feel compelled to conceal my discontent, regardless of rank or former rank.
ABC - I did NOT account for the NUMEROUS missions that the Guard SF guys were doing and for that I apologize. They have done a tremendous amount of tasks, missions and all around support in an innocuous environment.
My comments were on the conventional side of the house. For instance, spending an entire year training an artillery unit to go downrange and provide GS support and the moment they arrive in theater, they are shrugged off to some BS back-water area and given a new mission of area or route security.
That sets them up for failure and I don't think it's right.
My comments were not towards the Guard SF guys (just spoke with my old TS and he has done more in the last 13 years of war than almost anyone I know).
I obviously pissed off some tremendous professionals here so rather than think it is all "everyone else's fault", it obviously was what I said; or in how I failed to articulate my premise. For that - I apologize. No slamming you guys here - we're all on the same team.
I do believe that our National Security Strategy and current implementation guidance for the conventional forces of the Guard is seriously flawed. During the Clinton years when we hacked apart our active duty forces, we put the CS/CSS assets into the Reserves and transferred a LOT of our combat requirements to the Guard. The reasons for doing so were many but primarily political thus ensuring when we went to war that we took a cross-section of America with us. That everyone would know someone from "back home' currently engaged in the war.
I happen to think it is unfair and unachievable to expect the same results from the limited training we provide to the Guard to expect them to have the same capabilities as the Active Force.
ABC, MR2, Tomahawk, I apologize about what I said. It was NOT my intent to slam you guys. I will ensure I word my posts better in the future to avoid creating these inferences. I have nothing but respect for what the Guard/Reserve guys do. As stated, I spent 7 years of my career in the Active Reserve. Not sure how you guys do it for 20+ years and maintain a job and family life.
Look JimP, Ok I have no reason to doubt your sincerity. However I think that your perspective is limited. I’ll be honest, from my read your initial post was totally geared towards pointing out that the ARNG has issues, and insinuating that the ARNG is incapable of discipline and that ARNG Officers were even worse. You also mentioned the “farce” you believed the concept of a deployable ARNG to be given what missions that we do. That's a pretty wide net you were casting... I was waiting for you to accurately categorize what missions we have done and currently do, and back up your comments on the fiscal soundness of pursuing a deployable ARNG with some facts/meat on the bone… but ok. I’m good with letting it drop.
I appreciate that your comments were not directed towards ARNG SF. All well and good. I’ve deployed more than once with ARNG SF and have worked at the national level working ARNG SF issues. So that’s good. My current perspective however is that of a staff officer at a State HQ and commander of an ARNG Infantry battalion that has streamers on it’s colors from every war from the Indian wars, through OEF II (excepting Vietnam). Do you think that your comments “hit close to home” because I or my higher can’t enforce discipline or would look the other way on criminal behavior?? That my battalion or Brigade hasn’t contributed? Should I sit and let you disparage my men currently serving or my unit, and/or the gold star members and families of both my battalion and our Brigade? Based upon your two years with the elite 1st US Army (lol)? Not a fucking chance.
I can and have enforced discipline… Just ask the Commander that I’ve fired and/or NCOs that I’ve reduced lately. AWOLS? Normal everyday business…General, OTH discharges and out the door are the norm. NCOs I’ll do what it takes to reduce first. LOR’s sure I’ve done those too. Yes, I, like my fellow BC’s have discipline issues. But so do Active Duty units, as you did point out. Active duty units of all kinds have issues.
Rand Studies? Lol. That’s akin to using Wiki as a source document. Rand issues conclusions influenced by who is paying. I could talk in detail on one that I took pleasure in helping to discredit while working in DC.
About the ARNG / USAR thing. My opinion only and open to debate… is that it’s a good thing that the mix is as it is or short-sighted Army leadership would use the ARNG as individual fillers effectively breaking combat formations. Being in the ARNG give that extra layer to prevent against that. Ensures that big Army has some hoops to jump through and preserves units as units.
I don’t think you are a bad guy. I just think that you might have limited perspective on many things ARNG. I also think that you made some big extrapolations. Maybe not intentional. So Ok.
Just my perspective from only 26 yrs of service (9 Active, 17 ARNG).
YMMV.
Edit to add: I will buy you a beer sometime and we can talk.
CAARNG 68W
02-08-2016, 23:33
I can and have enforced discipline… Just ask the Commander that I’ve fired and/or NCOs that I’ve reduced lately. AWOLS? Normal everyday business…General, OTH discharges and out the door are the norm.
There's AWOLS in NG SF units?
ABC - fair statement all around. Would love to sit down with you and chew the fat. I think we'd have a hell of a conversation.
I get ya' on the "elite" First Army.....(another fair statement - man....you have NO idea!!!!). In my time there I felt that it was the Island of misfit toys. However, it did give me a platform to view all the States and all the TAG's. Some good...some bad. I still can't quite wrap my head around the political aspect of the Guard and how it affected its mission.
Guys at your level at the Battalions and Brigades were NOT the issue; it was the political nature of the beast at the TAG level and the missions within the GFMIG that I had an issue with. I just don't think it fair to impose upon the Guard many of the things the implementation guidance mandated.
Again - just my opinion. Not worth any more nor less that others' on here.
As to the female soldier? I see that she has turned herself in. Any updates as to her status or punishment?
Chairborne64
02-09-2016, 09:00
There's AWOLS in NG SF units?
There are AWOLs in Active Duty SF Groups. It is very rare but it happens.
I don't remember a SF tabbed guy from my few years in 7th SFG, but I do remember the 7th SFG Chemo circa 1999 taking the GOVCC and a laptop and going on a vacation to Amsterdam (or something like that). Well he came back and was sitting at FBNC in the peanalty box awaiting his punishment. I was SDO one weekend and he complained that the SD Driver was a little late in arriving at Moon hall where he had to come down to the lobby and sign in every hour or so. I was an angry CPT at that stage in my life and went over to Moon hall told him to sign the SD log and that if he so much as opened his pie hole one more time that I'd have him sleeping in a cot behind the 7SFG SDNCO Desk.
He was good for my entire weekend... and then I ETS'd so never knew what happened to him. LoL.
There's AWOLS in NG SF units?
I have no idea. But I am talking as a commander of a conventional ARNG unit. I have over 700 pax. Of course we have AWOLS. Do you think that the recruiters only enlist the very cream of the crop?
ABC - fair statement all around. Would love to sit down with you and chew the fat. I think we'd have a hell of a conversation.
... I still can't quite wrap my head around the political aspect of the Guard and how it affected its mission.
Guys at your level at the Battalions and Brigades were NOT the issue; it was the political nature of the beast at the TAG level and the missions within the GFMIG that I had an issue with. I just don't think it fair to impose upon the Guard many of the things the implementation guidance mandated. ...
Look. Sorry for being a little ouchy. I've seen/experienced my share of "Guard bashing" so I go on the defensive. I have a bunch of shit hot people in my BN. Great Americans. I am privileged. I"d love to see what we could do after being notified that we were going to war and after 90 days of dedicated training. But as it is, warts and all, we do a pretty good job.
I am NOT suggesting that we are as good as an AD Infantry BN prior to some additional dedicated trainup. The issue is that while we have good people, we lack some critical collective training.
I'd love to talk with you one on one;
CAARNG 68W
02-16-2016, 00:45
There are AWOLs in Active Duty SF Groups. It is very rare but it happens.
I have no idea. But I am talking as a commander of a conventional ARNG unit. I have over 700 pax. Of course we have AWOLS. Do you think that the recruiters only enlist the very cream of the crop?
It all comes down to whoever walks into that office...
It all comes down to whoever walks into that office...
Ding ding ding ! We have a winner!