View Full Version : Staying Calm Under Stress
Hello all, this is a question for mostly QP's, but anyone is welcome to answer. SF guys are reputed for staying calm under stress, you guys are known to produce higher levels of Neuropeptide Y under pressure. The question(s) are:
-How do you keep calm under stress?
-Do you keep calm under all kinds of stress? E.g. arguing with wife, adjusting to civilian life, vs being in combat
-Where and/or when did you develop such a quality? Before or after training?
-Are you normally a calm person? Have you ever lashed out or lost your cool, became worried, nervous or angry, EVER? lol
Thanks!
1stindoor
06-24-2015, 06:39
I would say it's an attribute that's developed over a long period of time and experience. The things that used to cause stress when you're younger don't bother you as you get older. Good judgment comes from experience...and a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.
Go Devil
06-24-2015, 07:01
^^^^^ Everything 1stindoor stated.
...and maintaining a keen focus on the objective while assessing, assimilating/rejecting incoming and outgoing stimuli.
Agreed with what has been stated,,
Besides being a self learned and self refined personal reflex,
being CALM is somewhat genetic. (not to be conflated as clam, :])
Genetic as in the nature of the individual,
not as a inherited DNA trait.
:munchin
Team Sergeant
06-24-2015, 10:30
Hello all, this is a question for mostly QP's, but anyone is welcome to answer. SF guys are reputed for staying calm under stress, you guys are known to produce higher levels of Neuropeptide Y under pressure. The question(s) are:
-How do you keep calm under stress?
-Do you keep calm under all kinds of stress? E.g. arguing with wife, adjusting to civilian life, vs being in combat
-Where and/or when did you develop such a quality? Before or after training?
-Are you normally a calm person? Have you ever lashed out or lost your cool, became worried, nervous or angry, EVER? lol
Thanks!
And why it was moved to "General Discussions".
The Reaper
06-24-2015, 10:48
Agreed with what has been stated,,
Besides being a self learned and self refined personal reflex,
being CLAM is somewhat genetic.
Genetic as in the nature of the individual,
not as a inherited DNA trait.
:munchin
I don't think anyone was talking about being a "CLAM". :D
TR
A related discussion from June 2008.
http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18721
A discussion from October 2008.
http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20029
Recently, as a flight attendant, I responded to a situation involving an unconscious little girl. I took charge of the situation and allowed my training to kick in. I did about everything I was supposed to do and the little girl was in stable condition. But during the ordeal, my heart was beating fast and I was shaking, it was a mixture of excitement and fear, and my attempt to suppress them.
My coworkers told me I sounded calm over the intercom, but I couldn't help but being embarrassed, wondering if I let my nervousness show.
My question is, during your first "situation" combat related or not, were you nervous? Does it get better with experience?
What are your tips to calm my adrenaline next time so I don't shake while trying to do my job?
Thanks for your answers.
Nervous, no. Adrenaline, abundantly. With a very increased awareness.
Could nervousness be just how you mentally frame and acknowledge it? If I welcomed my symptoms (heart rate, shakiness, heightened alertness) then it felt like excitement, yet if I pushed it away then it becomes fear. I want to assume you experienced the same physical symptoms as I did.
Team Sergeant
07-08-2015, 08:58
Training and mindset.
I suggest you read the mindset thread, it may be long but well worth the read.
Masters of Chaos
http://www.amazon.com/Masters-Chaos-Secret-History-Special/dp/1586483528
Purchase it.
UWOA (RIP)
07-08-2015, 09:46
When the poop hits the fan, things seem to slow down for me. I attribute that to the fact that my mind is racing, processing huge amounts of information and comparing it with training and experience to gauge reaction. In many ways it contributes to the level of 'awareness' and subsequent response mentioned above ....
Thus, when everything has 'slowed down' around you and you react, it seems not only 'calm and ordered' to you, but also to those around you.
.
Adderall. Keeps you focused. Just can't be in the Army or need a security clearance. ;)
doctom54
07-08-2015, 11:30
I would say it's an attribute that's developed over a long period of time and experience. The things that used to cause stress when you're younger don't bother you as you get older. Good judgment comes from experience...and a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.
I concur
miclo18d
07-08-2015, 17:43
The more realistic the training the more it seems like training when it happens.
For medical training you want fake blood squirting in your face and loud sounds going off around you trying to distract you.
For shooting, nothing like a shoot house with real door charges and live ammo to get the blood pumping with a simple scenario that keeps getting changed every few minutes to keep you thinking, the odds getting worse as you go or your time on obj keeps getting cut. The Mogidishu Mile type training is good as you just are exhausted the whole time and have to keep moving. No stopping, no time outs, lots of wounded to carry, a million angles, and the bad guys are every where!
Through all of this you must be physically fit as well as mentally prepared. Peak physical condition keeps your heart rate controllable once that initial rush happens. The fight or flight reaction can be controlled. When the real thing happens you almost think it's boring in comparison...almost! Nothing like bullets flying back at you to get that pucker factor increased by A thousand!!!
But even that gets familiar when it's happened enough times. The more often it happens the more accustomed you are to it. If you are getting shot at once a week you get batter at it than if it only happens once a month or once a deployment.same with wounds. The more you see the easier it is to deal with the next one.
I know these examples relate to combat, but the same principles apply to roller coasters and sky diving, or being in an ER or an inflight emergency.
I want to thank every one of y'all so much for responding to my posts. Team Sergeant, I already ordered that book from Amazon for 4 bucks, can't wait to read it.
UWOA, lol Adderall's cool, but I seem to be getting similar results through mindfulness meditation, I'll try that first then see, maybe I'll even try Addium when all fails.
Just today I was unexpectedly and challenged to a fight by a local gang member while sitting in my car, he asked me to give him my money, first thing I did was instinctively unbuckle my seat belt in case I needed the mobility. I was weirdly excited and wanted to fight, but I calmly and politely told him not tonight, then he threatened to pull a gun on me and quickly pointed his finger at me, I flinched, but remained calm. I kept telling him I didn't have any money, and I was ready to kick open the door and go crazy on him at any second. Eventually I said I gotta go, pointing towards the McDonald's I was trying to get to, and maybe sensing that I was confident or whatever he went away.
I mean it's not really a real "stress situation" by all of your standards, and I didn't feel the "time slowing down" sort of thing, but I did stay calm and did everything in a slow manner instinctively to not agitate the guy. I would've probably been nervous if I didn't have any martial arts training at all, that and trusting my ability to give all I got if I need to in order to defend myself.
Miclo18D, it's what I admire about you guys: the constant training and real life experience you go through. For my job, our initial training is 7.5 weeks, which includes evacuations, medical, firefighting, and security, then we get about 2 days of refresher training every year that includes mostly drills and scenario exercises. I would love to have more training, but most of my coworkers seems to hate it or don't take it seriously. I mean you sort of understand when we only get to use our training once in a while, but still. In my spare time I like to visualize emergency scenarios in my head, and take volunteer self defense training classes with the air marshalls whenever they arise.
UWOA (RIP)
07-09-2015, 07:32
UWOA, lol Adderall's cool, but I seem to be getting similar results through mindfulness meditation, I'll try that first then see, maybe I'll even try Addium when all fails.
You need to pay more attention to detail, Sinjefe said that, not me.
.
mark46th
07-09-2015, 08:30
In civilian life, being calm can be mistaken for disinterest, apathy, etc. I have had problems with supervisors who are upset when I don't jump through my ass and start spinning in circles when something would go wrong. I will take care of the situation and solve the problem so the job can continue. Some get it, some don't.
Damocles
07-09-2015, 13:07
In civilian life, being calm can be mistaken for disinterest, apathy, etc. I have had problems with supervisors who are upset when I don't jump through my ass and start spinning in circles when something would go wrong. I will take care of the situation and solve the problem so the job can continue. Some get it, some don't.
I experience much the same thing. Growing up, I always admired those characters in movies who showed a high level of stoicism. It seemed to me that pushing myself to learn to be stoic would make me more like those "strong, silent types" that I looked up to. I always perceived that the more calm a person was, the more highly functioning he was in stressful situations.
I have succeeded, to a point, in adopting a stoic mindset. As a result of this, I believe it has helped me to control my emotions and to mentally step past them when they would otherwise be a hinderance to my performance in whatever is occurring at the moment. It has helped in fairly mundane situations, such as employment negotiations as well as in highly stressful situations, for example, responding to auto accidents with significant trauma and a high level of consequence for mistakes on my part.
Friends and family have described me both as "too exacting" and "apathetic". I believe this comes from the average person's inability to understand that emotions are not your friend when performing in a stressful environment and when things need to be done correctly the first time.
It has also helped immensely when in a leadership role. It gives me the ability to deal with subordinates fairly and justly. When things do not go as planned, I don't fly off the handle and freak out as many do, but am able to calmly assess the situation and find an alternative method to accomplish the task. It has also made me more forgiving of mistakes, so long as those mistakes are not repeated.
A downside of learning to do this is that it has made me lose respect for others who are unable to control themselves in a similar manner. Through what I've learned, I believe that a person's ability to control his/her emotions in times of stress is completely up to that person and no one/nothing else. Most people do not even try.
To the OP, I would suggest doing some research into Stoicism and its practice, beginning with Zeno, but especially Seneca and Cicero.
bailaviborita
07-09-2015, 14:49
SF guys are reputed for staying calm under stress, you guys are known to produce higher levels of Neuropeptide Y under pressure. The question(s) are:
-How do you keep calm under stress?
-Do you keep calm under all kinds of stress? E.g. arguing with wife, adjusting to civilian life, vs being in combat
"SF guys" are much like any other population group- there is a wide variation between them and how they cope and they all change. Not too long ago a former SF Command CG wigged out and left a group of retired American officers in a riot situation in a foreign country. He wasn't like that when he was on a team--- but, like all humans- he changed. I've heard we are QPs, able to work with indigs, and courageous- where have you heard we are more likely to remain clam under stress? If we are- it is probably because those who are less likely to remain calm are weeded out through the pipeline.
What reference do you have for "produce higher levels of Neuropeptide Y under pressure"?
I'd say people- no matter their branch or area of work- handle stress differently. To put all SF guys in one bag and say "this is how we handle stress" is not realistic. Oh- and I did mention people change, too, didn't I?
Some SF guys- just like other humans- can handle urban combat but can't handle the wife yelling. Others like being in a hide and putting their feces in bags. I have never known any one SF guy who can handle all types of stress equally well- everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses. Being on a team wherein everyone has different strengths and weaknesses makes us what we are- not individual He-men...
Last 2 questions: "you" is going to get you individual answers- and that is because it is dependent on the person. What we look for is a team that can handle most stressful situations as a team- with different individuals stepping up depending on the situation. There is no such thing as a perfect "operator"--- those people exist only in the movies...
Red Flag 1
07-09-2015, 17:03
It is amazing what injecting a small bit of humor can do to bring everyone down a notch or two.
CryptKeeper
07-09-2015, 17:17
I thought I 'd share some of what I've discovered on this topic, so here you go:
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10561
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10807963
RESULTS: Plasma NPY levels were significantly increased compared to baseline following interrogations and were significantly higher in Special Forces soldiers, compared to non-Special Forces soldiers. NPY elicited by interrogation stress was significantly correlated to the subjects' behavior during interrogations and tended to be negatively correlated to symptoms of reported dissociation. Twenty-four hours after the conclusion of survival training, NPY had returned to baseline in Special Forces soldiers, but remained significantly lower than baseline values in non-Special Forces soldiers. NPY was positively correlated with both cortisol and behavioral performance under stress. NPY was negatively related to psychological symptoms of dissociation.
I’ve also attached some relevant PDF’s that should be of some interest for those wanting to know more on the topic.
This one time, in band camp........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murican View Post
UWOA, lol Adderall's cool, but I seem to be getting similar results through mindfulness meditation, I'll try that first then see, maybe I'll even try Addium when all fails.
You need to pay more attention to detail, Sinjefe said that, not me.
Oops, sorry. That was embarassing :(
To respond to your post, UWOA, I haven't had too much of experience where things "slow down" during an emergency. Like I've mentioned in my intro, I have bipolar disorder, and everything slows down during a manic episode as my mind is racing, so I know what it feels like. But during an emergency I usually stay pretty mentally relaxed, while my training or whatever muscle memory kicks in, despite the adrenaline. But never "slowing down" maybe I can deliberately try to slow things down next time an emergency happens and see if it helps.
mark46th: In civilian life, being calm can be mistaken for disinterest, apathy, etc. I have had problems with supervisors who are upset when I don't jump through my ass and start spinning in circles when something would go wrong. I will take care of the situation and solve the problem so the job can continue. Some get it, some don't.
That's an excellent observation, I think part of the problem is distrust.
bailaviborita "SF guys" are much like any other population group- there is a wide variation between them and how they cope and they all change. Not too long ago a former SF Command CG wigged out and left a group of retired American officers in a riot situation in a foreign country. He wasn't like that when he was on a team--- but, like all humans- he changed. I've heard we are QPs, able to work with indigs, and courageous- where have you heard we are more likely to remain clam under stress? If we are- it is probably because those who are less likely to remain calm are weeded out through the pipeline.
What reference do you have for "produce higher levels of Neuropeptide Y under pressure"?
I'd say people- no matter their branch or area of work- handle stress differently. To put all SF guys in one bag and say "this is how we handle stress" is not realistic. Oh- and I did mention people change, too, didn't I?
Some SF guys- just like other humans- can handle urban combat but can't handle the wife yelling. Others like being in a hide and putting their feces in bags. I have never known any one SF guy who can handle all types of stress equally well- everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses. Being on a team wherein everyone has different strengths and weaknesses makes us what we are- not individual He-men...
Last 2 questions: "you" is going to get you individual answers- and that is because it is dependent on the person. What we look for is a team that can handle most stressful situations as a team- with different individuals stepping up depending on the situation. There is no such thing as a perfect "operator"--- those people exist only in the movies...
Wow thanks bailaviborita for your very detailed response.
I heard that SF guys are able to stay calm under stress from articles like this http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/007953.html That talked about a study by a Yale scientist, who took data from various different groups of people (Rangers, Marines, SEAL, and SF) and measured their blood chemicals and their mental states during SERE training and combat diving course. They found that SF and SEAL had about 30 percent more neuropeptide Y than others, and they think it has a direct correlation to the SF and SEAL retaining mental clarity after being "abused" during captivity. Their NPY levels also dropped to lower than others. So I hear SF guys have called NPY the "midichlorians" of the SF soldier.
That, and simply observing the mannerisms of SF and non-SF guys, SF tend to display a more calm demeanor. Maybe I'm imagining things, but I think you can sometimes tell the tell tale signs of a normal soldier who have been through war and "seen the horrors," by their thousand mile stares and forceful body language. Most SF guys I've seen have this normal look on their face, and they talk like they're civilians or college students, even though they've been through more war than anybody else. Maybe you guys simply hide it better, but I think it's amazing that you seemingly retain the calm side of yourselves despite war and hardship.
I also find it interesting, that you are all different when it comes to handling stress, which makes perfect sense. I am curious to know where during the SF pipeline does it weed out those who couldn't keep composure under duress. Before I was a flight attendant, I was aware of the general reputation and assumption that flight attendants are all calm under pressure. Some airlines even make it a pre-requisite. This was probably exemplified by cases like flight attendants who exhibited composure while dealing with hijacking situations, etc. Anyways, I always wondered if I could have that kind of composure in a high-stakes situation. I passed the psychological and interviews in which they picked the personality types, but I was still expecting them to train me to be calm under pressure. Guess what, that never happened other than being told a few times to "stay calm, or act like you're calm, or we trust you will be" The training was stressful because it was a lot of material in a short time, and probably weeded out a few who couldn't focus under pressure, but that's about it. And interesting enough, despite a narrow personality selection, and training, we are all also very different, maybe that pertains to what you described.
Like you said, I guess SF pipeline also doesn't necessarily "train" a person to be calm under pressure, but at what points do they weed out those who don't stay calm? And how is the training that you received different than that of infantry or ranger school, JW? Some say that SF training is more academic in nature, but I don't see how that contributes to performance under pressure in battle.
And lastly, just how important do you think staying calm really is? Can you be a good SF soldier and still be fidgety and nervous?
UWOA (RIP)
07-10-2015, 04:09
Oops, sorry. That was embarassing :(
To respond to your post, UWOA, I haven't had too much of experience where things "slow down" during an emergency. Like I've mentioned in my intro, I have bipolar disorder, and everything slows down during a manic episode as my mind is racing, so I know what it feels like. But during an emergency I usually stay pretty mentally relaxed, while my training or whatever muscle memory kicks in, despite the adrenaline. But never "slowing down" maybe I can deliberately try to slow things down next time an emergency happens and see if it helps.
Just because your mind is processing a lot of information doesn't mean you're not mentally relaxed. The mind is a funny thing ... it doesn't feel pain, yet it processes pain 'information' from other parts of the body. More to the point, practice and experience with life-threatening situations utilizes brain pathways to support a successful resolution and are 'captured' or imprinted and used again when presented with a similar situation. I've never felt mentally drained after an event, it just seems normal to function that way ... because I've done it (maybe not the exact same thing, but close enough that the triggers were set off to precipitate the response) before. I can't say with any certainty that I am using more (or less) of my brain during such events, nor can I say that my mind is 'racing' as I process information ... but I think I can say that decision points are factoring as I assess and respond and are part of that focus ... which I liken to seeing the 'trees in the forest' and realizing how dense the growth is as opposed to 'not seeing the forest for the trees'.
Hope that makes some sense, otherwise I'm going to fill a new category in the DSM (for the psychiatric/psychologist folks)! LOL!
.
Just because your mind is processing a lot of information doesn't mean you're not mentally relaxed. The mind is a funny thing ... it doesn't feel pain, yet it processes pain 'information' from other parts of the body. More to the point, practice and experience with life-threatening situations utilizes brain pathways to support a successful resolution and are 'captured' or imprinted and used again when presented with a similar situation. I've never felt mentally drained after an event, it just seems normal to function that way ... because I've done it (maybe not the exact same thing, but close enough that the triggers were set off to precipitate the response) before. I can't say with any certainty that I am using more (or less) of my brain during such events, nor can I say that my mind is 'racing' as I process information ... but I think I can say that decision points are factoring as I assess and respond and are part of that focus ... which I liken to seeing the 'trees in the forest' and realizing how dense the growth is as opposed to 'not seeing the forest for the trees'.
Hope that makes some sense, otherwise I'm going to fill a new category in the DSM (for the psychiatric/psychologist folks)! LOL!
No I totally get what you're saying. Not completely related to emergency situations, but I remember one time sparring with a friend, and I got elbowed hard to the right side of my head. I think I got a mild concussion from it. Anyways, months maybe even a year or two ever since that, I was extremely responsive whenever a person tries to hit my head from the right side. Because, like you said, I've "experienced it" and I've built shortcut white matter neuro-pathways to help me respond better.
I also didn't mean that you weren't calm simply because your mind was racing. I just meant I usually only experience the calm part, but not the "super mind" racing component when I'm in a dangerous situation. I might have experienced it, but just don't remember. I feel like my mind should be like that in the few situations I've been lately, but it just didn't happen.
Do you experience adrenaline when all this is going on? (Racing heartbeats, deeper breathing, shakiness?) Whenever I get a rush of adrenaline I feel a sense of weird relaxation, but it happens along with the increased heart rhythm and shakiness.