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Kar358
07-24-2014, 13:31
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Pete
07-24-2014, 13:42
Every TV commercial break take a deep breath and then while holding it - do 20 good pushups, tie a bowline, girth hitch with extra turn, square knot - then untie them all, then do 20 more pushups and then breath.

When you can do about 150 flutter kicks you're getting close.

Being able to drink water through your nose while on your back didn't hurt back in the old days. Don't know if this modern course will have you do that...

Oh, and using the search feature will find a ton more similar stuff on this site.

Kar358
07-24-2014, 13:47
Thanks! I'm already well above 150 4-counts, but I'll definitely have to try the breath hold pushups. I did try searching the site, but didn't have any success with "Combat Diver", "Diver", "Special Forces Diver", or "Combat Diver Qualification Course." My results on google have been almost equally bare. Did you have a specific past thread in mind that discusses this topic?

TrapperFrank
07-24-2014, 14:02
My question is, and I mean no disrespect, why would a school slot in Combat Diver School be wasted on an ROTC cadet? It used to be hard enough for guys on dive teams to get a school quota. This does not seem like a good use of army resources.

Kar358
07-24-2014, 14:08
I would tend to agree with you, but I'm certainly not going to complain about the opportunity. I'm assuming that its a recruiting tools for Rangers and SF, because the few cadets who have gotten a chance to go in the past have been truly the best in the nation, and will make up a sizable chunk of future spec ops officers.

The Reaper
07-24-2014, 15:32
My question is, and I mean no disrespect, why would a school slot in Combat Diver School be wasted on an ROTC cadet? It used to be hard enough for guys on dive teams to get a school quota. This does not seem like a good use of army resources.

I concur completely.

As well as cadets at SFAS. :rolleyes:

TR

Peregrino
07-24-2014, 15:57
My question is, and I mean no disrespect, why would a school slot in Combat Diver School be wasted on an ROTC cadet? It used to be hard enough for guys on dive teams to get a school quota. This does not seem like a good use of army resources.

Because we aren't filling the available slots with SF Soldiers.

Side note for the SF Soldiers reading this who are interested in attempting CDQC - pre-SCUBA is back. The CG just signed the new Policy Letter. Check with your DLSMF for details. Fair warning - if you try to go to SFUWO without meeting the new pre-reqs, you will be sent home.

Kar358
07-24-2014, 15:58
I've heard about the cadets going to SFAS, but I don't believe that program is still operational. Playing devil's advocate, I would argue that any cadet of similar quality to the one's selected for CDQC would be significantly more qualified than the average 18x. After all, pretty much all of these kids have 3.7+ gpa's, 370+ pt scores , and have demonstrated impressive skill/competence in their battalion or the MA for their first two/three/four years. Is it a "waste" if they don't proceed directly to SFQC, even if they will likely be there a few years later?

I'm not intending to be disrespectful, just curious what you think of that.

JJ_BPK
07-24-2014, 16:06
How to fail the SCUBA course,,

Observations from a FOG:


1) I went in 69' and I think one of the little "problems" I pondered was swimming side stroke. It's a stroke that is seldom used and at that time All open top water swims were side stroke. You can switch sides,, as long as your partner agrees. In our case, my partner and I didn't switch. I was on my right, he always stayed on his left.

The kicker was all swims at that time were also with a compass. You had to take into account the arc you generally swim on your side, depending on who was lead.

2) Claustrophobia,, Do everything you can to test yourself. We probably lost 20% of my class because they could not swim in the pitch dark.. I say test, not overcome. I don't think there is a way to "learn" not to be. And I don't want you on my team "trying". This phobia is not only confined spaces. It can come on while swimming in a crystal clear open ocean dive. Looking down into 1500 ft of water when you're 80 ft from the top,, it's awesome,, to some of us..

3)Clearing you sinuses and eustachian tubes as you dive. Failing to properly clear can do tremendous damage to your ears. Part of our final qual was a free dive riding a 20lb anchor to 85ft. Let go of the anchor, strike one. You had two chances, and if you were lucky, one retry on another date. This problem can at times be traced to your childhood. Did you have your tonsils out? Did you have a lot of sore throats or childhood allergies.

Good Luck.

Pete
07-24-2014, 16:20
... I would argue that any cadet of similar quality to the one's selected for CDQC would be significantly more qualified than the average 18x. After all, pretty much all of these kids have 3.7+ gpa's, 370+ pt scores , and have demonstrated impressive skill/competence in their battalion or the MA for their first two/three/four years. ...

I think that statement is full of shit.

None of it will help you in the deep end of the pool - and as JJ noted - having the lower hatch shut on you and four other guys, is shall we say, interesting. Especially when the water starts coming in.

The first and main part of this course is mental - just like most of the SF courses - then closely followed by physical.

And I just finished up my degree with a 3.789 average and I don't think of myself to my peers as anything but average - nothing special.

Peregrino
07-24-2014, 19:36
I've heard about the cadets going to SFAS, but I don't believe that program is still operational. Playing devil's advocate, I would argue that any cadet of similar quality to the one's selected for CDQC would be significantly more qualified than the average 18x. After all, pretty much all of these kids have 3.7+ gpa's, 370+ pt scores , and have demonstrated impressive skill/competence in their battalion or the MA for their first two/three/four years. Is it a "waste" if they don't proceed directly to SFQC, even if they will likely be there a few years later?

I'm not intending to be disrespectful, just curious what you think of that.

I think you're annoying me. The cadets you're talking about are children. The 18X-rays you're attempting to denigrate with your apples to oranges comparison usually exceed the qualities of your chosen peer group - they just chose a different path in life. As a group they have frequently earned the same or greater GPAs at their respective institutions (earned before enlistment - some even have Masters degrees), they've proven themselves by excelling through an arduous two-year training/education process that few of your peers will ever even attempt, AND they usually have at least one COMBAT tour before they are selected/directed to attend CDQC. I'd recommend you confine your "devil's advocate" attitude to your airsofter acquaintances where your shared experiences have relevance.

Joker
07-24-2014, 21:08
I'm not intending to be disrespectful, just curious what you think of that.

I walked away from this, ate dinner, thought about it, and I am responding with a cool head now.

I think you are a immature piece of waste. You believe that you are entitled to all of your desires. You think you are sooo smart and you believe what your parents say about you (that you are the best and can do no wrong). You think you don't have to work and sacrifice to get what you want.

I was a SF "baby," which was before the 18X program, and worked my pre-Army ass off since I was 9-years old until I went into the Army at 24. I went to college when I was in the Army and busted my ass, starting with only 6 credit hours, and earned my BS in 16 fucking months. The University offered me a full ride to get a law degree, but I had to turn them down because I was an Active Duty troop. That University had (has?) a 100% first time Bar Exam pass rate. So fuck you and your "4-year"degree.

I hired a lowly 18X SSG as a GS14 when he ETS'ed AD. Oh, I almost forgot to mention that he joined the Army after he graduated SMU Law School (that's a JD you dumbass). He is now a Reserve Long Tabbed JAG Officer. I've met 18 series men that have advanced and professional degrees, some enlisted for SF after they graduated and worked in their field.

I know that you currently do not have what it takes to be a Special Forces Commissioned or Non-Commissioned Officer as you are a condescending bitch. I would suggest that you either go big Army and get a grip or enlist in the 18X program and prove me wrong - put up or shut up.

Last hard class
07-24-2014, 23:55
I walked away from this, ate dinner, thought about it, and I am responding with a cool head now.

I think you are a immature piece of waste. You believe that you are entitled to all of your desires. You think you are sooo smart and you believe what your parents say about you (that you are the best and can do no wrong). You think you don't have to work and sacrifice to get what you want.

I was a SF "baby," which was before the 18X program, and worked my pre-Army ass off since I was 9-years old until I went into the Army at 24. I went to college when I was in the Army and busted my ass, starting with only 6 credit hours, and earned my BS in 16 fucking months. The University offered me a full ride to get a law degree, but I had to turn them down because I was an Active Duty troop. That University had (has?) a 100% first time Bar Exam pass rate. So fuck you and your "4-year"degree.

I hired a lowly 18X SSG as a GS14 when he ETS'ed AD. Oh, I almost forgot to mention that he joined the Army after he graduated SMU Law School (that's a JD you dumbass). He is now a Reserve Long Tabbed JAG Officer. I've met 18 series men that have advanced and professional degrees, some enlisted for SF after they graduated and worked in their field.

I know that you currently do not have what it takes to be a Special Forces Commissioned or Non-Commissioned Officer as you are a condescending bitch. I would suggest that you either go big Army and get a grip or enlist in the 18X program and prove me wrong - put up or shut up.


Well, that'll just about cover the fly-bys.


BTW: Outstanding post!


LHC

WarriorDiplomat
07-25-2014, 07:56
I've heard about the cadets going to SFAS, but I don't believe that program is still operational. Playing devil's advocate, I would argue that any cadet of similar quality to the one's selected for CDQC would be significantly more qualified than the average 18x. After all, pretty much all of these kids have 3.7+ gpa's, 370+ pt scores , and have demonstrated impressive skill/competence in their battalion or the MA for their first two/three/four years. Is it a "waste" if they don't proceed directly to SFQC, even if they will likely be there a few years later?

I'm not intending to be disrespectful, just curious what you think of that.

Sure you don't want to join the SEAL's?.

And you want to join us and work with these third world indigenous people which by your post appears to be several echelons below you in your mind.

This is the kind of arrogance we are dealing with in the Q the self entitled holier than thou ego that we are getting. And we see it every class and every class I make it a point to humble or relieve these guys. Imagine this guy with his ideology sitting with a chief in some village somewhere in the world on a blanket with no formal education!?.

This "kid" with not a single day in the military wants us to share his values of what the perfect soldier is?.

Kid GPA's and college has nothing to do with being a Green Beret, college is indoctrination we want intelligence, drive, initiative, humility and many times more intelligence is found in that 18X or GED soldiers little finger than those 3.7 gpa 370+ PT score super soldier you describe.

Being CDQC does not make you a good Green Beret, there are quite a few CDQC grads who cannot understand our mission and are more concerned with tattoo's of sharks on their legs, long hair and their team shirts than our mission. There is no truth to the CDQC grad is on average a higher quality GB there are alot of GB's who have no desire to be a CDQC q'd soldier. And many very good swimmers feel that if they had wanted to be CDQC then we would have joined the SEAL's or MARSOC/Force Recon.

Kar358
07-25-2014, 08:32
As I said, I didn't mean any disrespect at all with that post - there are obviously 18x's with experience in college and well beyond. Nor am I attempting to compare any enlisted soldier to any cadet, as the comparison is pretty skewed. The 18x I was referring to would be your "off the street" high school grad who "played airsoft" with me, but I do recognize that even they often have significant experience. And I'm not saying I know what it takes to be selected or pass scuba - I wouldn't have posted at all here if I did. I assumed that those factors I mentioned all would give someone a much greater chance of success, but I certainly recognize that there are many others I left off.
Please don't take my comparison as condescension or a sign of arrogance, I'm coming here completely empty handed - as I should.
CDQC is a whole different animal, and as I said previously, I do think that it's an inefficient use of army resources to be sending cadets instead of soldiers.

Kar358
07-25-2014, 08:42
JJ BPK - I really appreciated your post by the way. That's excellent information to have.

spottedmedic111
07-25-2014, 09:30
I've worked with many West Point graduates and, in my experience, their performance typically falls within the same range as everyone else. No better and no worse. As others have already said, character trumps education and fitness and that has to come from within. Neither CDQC nor SFAS will be interested in developing that for you. Good luck whatever you choose.

Kar358
07-25-2014, 09:55
I realize I haven't demonstrated the character you are describing, so I guess that developing it needs to go at the top of my list before I even consider putting in the application packet for Dive school. Thank you for the earnest advice.

spottedmedic111
07-25-2014, 10:30
I realize I haven't demonstrated the character you are describing, so I guess that developing it needs to go at the top of my list before I even consider putting in the application packet for Dive school. Thank you for the earnest advice.

Well, my comment was in general terms and not directed at you. I think what most have said is that concluding cadets have advantages over 18Xs is unfair and based on several uninformed assumptions. I'll add that my last BC was an Academy graduate and was the best commander I've ever had. He wasn't dive or MFF qualified and the USMA wasn't the primary source of his success. That said, my advice is take the slot if it's offered to you but don't go into it with any presumptions. You might not like the outcome.

Kar358
07-25-2014, 11:22
I'll have to keep that in mind, with this and with anything else I might do in the military.
If I may try to clear up one more thing: I'm no SEAL wannabe, and I am not of the belief that CDQC makes you any better of a soldier; it's a tool of your trade like any other, and that is the one bit of information I have been able to glean about it from past threads. The reason I am interested in it is because it is the single largest opportunity for me (and me in particular!) to see first-hand how the men of SOF think and operate, and evolve a little bit while doing so. I'm not a "badge chaser" or anything like that either.

MR2
07-25-2014, 11:27
Kar, I advise read more post less.

A reply is not needed or appreciated.

exsquid
07-25-2014, 23:30
WD:

Where are these "very good" swimmers you speak of in the Army? I can say without a doubt that the best swimmers I have encountered in the Army are merely proficient compared to the good swimmers I encountered in the Navy. (This based on my previous experience as a USN rescue swimmer & diver/dive supervisor and my current role as a SF diver/dive supervisor.)

As for preparing for CDQC, either you can sack it up or you cannot. Most guys quit on themselves in the water because they are uncomfortable. Diving in the military sucks. That is just the nature of the beast and why nobody wants to do it.

x/S

jsmitty11
01-28-2015, 00:30
Youtube. Great resource with a great PJ cadre givin you tips. Mike Maroney is the username. Total Immersion is also a good resource for surface swimming. Never use restraints while you're training and always have a buddy who knows how to pull you out of the deep end. Hypoxic training can't be taken lightly. Few things to search: Egg Beat kick, keyhole stroke, 10 ups, Combat Side Stroke, bobbing, flooded mask. You'll be able to bounce around the common videos and get tons of information from other people trying to not drown and people who have succesfully not drown and graduated indoc. To my knowledge, PJ indoc has prescuba built into their selection type smoke sessions for the beginning of their pipeline

Last hard class
01-28-2015, 09:05
Youtube. Great resource

How do you know? Have you been to CDQC?

I didn't go through MFF when I was in. I would never have the balls to get on that thread and tell people how to prepare for it.


Feels like your selling something.


LHC

The Reaper
01-28-2015, 11:07
Youtube. Great resource with a great PJ cadre givin you tips. Mike Maroney is the username. Total Immersion is also a good resource for surface swimming. Never use restraints while you're training and always have a buddy who knows how to pull you out of the deep end. Hypoxic training can't be taken lightly. Few things to search: Egg Beat kick, keyhole stroke, 10 ups, Combat Side Stroke, bobbing, flooded mask. You'll be able to bounce around the common videos and get tons of information from other people trying to not drown and people who have succesfully not drown and graduated indoc. To my knowledge, PJ indoc has prescuba built into their selection type smoke sessions for the beginning of their pipeline

You really need to slow down, stop posting, and read the rules.

TR

89DTexan
01-30-2015, 15:31
What is the view from those who have been to CDQC as it pertains to having previous diving experience?

I've put a few guys looking at going to CDQC through a discover SCUBA class I teach. And have heard a few others completed the open water course taught at JBLM's NAC.

Would previous experience at the recreation level help, or do the techniques taught by the civilian side seem to interfer?

I don't want to waste people's money if they're just doing it to get an edge at CDQC and it isn't helping them.

WarriorDiplomat
02-16-2015, 19:51
WD:

Where are these "very good" swimmers you speak of in the Army? I can say without a doubt that the best swimmers I have encountered in the Army are merely proficient compared to the good swimmers I encountered in the Navy. (This based on my previous experience as a USN rescue swimmer & diver/dive supervisor and my current role as a SF diver/dive supervisor.)

As for preparing for CDQC, either you can sack it up or you cannot. Most guys quit on themselves in the water because they are uncomfortable. Diving in the military sucks. That is just the nature of the beast and why nobody wants to do it.

x/S

What does my response to the kid who stepped on his crank have to do with your experience in the Navy or as a CDQC Q'd guy?? apparently you took my comment personal. Believe it or not there are guys in the Army who grew up in the surf playing water polo into college , competitive swimming and diving that absolutely hate the egomaniacal image driven CDQC types they have seen.

JJ_BPK
02-17-2015, 06:28
What is the view from those who have been to CDQC as it pertains to having previous diving experience?

I've put a few guys looking at going to CDQC through a discover SCUBA class I teach. And have heard a few others completed the open water course taught at JBLM's NAC.

Would previous experience at the recreation level help, or do the techniques taught by the civilian side seem to interfer?

I don't want to waste people's money if they're just doing it to get an edge at CDQC and it isn't helping them.

I'll give you the short answer, assuming your question is not as stupid as it sounds..

Discover Scuba Class???

NO.

One can verify they are not claustrophobic in the pool, and will get a cursory education on diving physiology. That's it..

There isn't any comparison to the physical, mental, & academic requirements needed to complete CDQC.

If you took every course PADI teaches, you would still be short of CDQC..

Peregrino
02-17-2015, 08:45
I'll give you the short answer, assuming your question is not as stupid as it sounds.. ---------------- If you took every course PADI teaches, you would still be short of CDQC..

True. A bad day on a recreational civilian dive equals an aborted dive. Not so much on a military dive.


Diving in the military sucks. That is just the nature of the beast and why nobody wants to do it.

x/S

Also true. I'm one of the very few SF Divers I know who holds/held civilian instructor certs. Most of the guys will only dive when they're required to.

If you want to prep for CDQC there are training plans available both here and elsewhere on the net to assist with physical conditioning and swimming skills (just another form of physical conditioning). So long as you have an adequate physical prep, everything else you need to know will be taught during training. There's a reason PADI courses are taught in a weekend and CDQC takes weeks that include 16-18 hour days.

exsquid
02-19-2015, 22:24
WD:

Nothing personal at all. My response is a mix of sarcasm and a personal pet peeve. I hate going to a pool and not being able to train properly because guys who should not be allowed near water are hogging lanes. As for over inflated combat diver ego, I hear you loud and clear, to me it is just another tool in the tool bag and more pay in the check.

x/S

Combat Diver
02-20-2015, 10:28
Here's a few commands I hated........

Prepare to Crossover......CROSSOVER
Prepare to Bob to the Deep End.......BOB TO THE DEEP END


Only advice I would give is get in the best shape you can and don't quite. Like the Q course you have to want it.



CD