View Full Version : Michelle Obama loses her cool:
BMT (RIP)
06-05-2013, 03:49
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2336084/Michelle-Obama-threatens-leave-fundraiser-lesbian-protester-heckles-speech-White-House-deletes-exchange-official-transcript.html
BMT
"..........order federal contractors to stop discriminating against gays and lesbians in hiring.............."
I'm getting a little tired of rude folks interrupting any speaker in the name of free speech.
But with that said "Why is this even an issue?"
It's all in the counting - numbers - numbers - numbers - how many of what sub group got how many jobs.
Ret10Echo
06-05-2013, 05:18
"..........order federal contractors to stop discriminating against gays and lesbians in hiring.............."
Rephrased
"...order federal contractors to discriminate against everyone else...."
I am more interested in how the "Administration of transparency and openess" edited the exchange out of the transcript. Classic
So what is the percentage of Tofalars present in the contractor workforce? I feel they are highly under-represented. There should be special consideration for Tofalars...and those with green eyes should take precedence over others....Is there somewhere I could spend a huge amount of money to disrupt an event to promote this unsubstantiated thought?
Destrier
06-05-2013, 05:38
Wonder how she would have reacted if she had a shoe thrown at her.
Trapper John
06-05-2013, 05:50
Wonder how she would have reacted if she had a shoe thrown at her.
If it were a Ferragamo: "Ooooo! Ferragamo! Do you have that in a size 10?" :D
I am still confused. We have laws that say you can not discriminate against anyone for what ever reason so why do we need a new order or law that only covers this small group.
Oh do not try to debate one of the LGBT could. They are hateful no matter what you say.
medic&commo
06-05-2013, 06:03
I am still confused. We have laws that say you can not discriminate against anyone for what ever reason so why do we need a new order or law that only covers this small group.
Oh do not try to debate one of the LGBT could. They are hateful no matter what you say.
IMO, the same as have additional laws for hate crimes -
If you commit murder, isn't that still murder, regardless of the sexual orientation, race, age, religious affiliation - because we are all created equal?
m&c
But with that said "Why is this even an issue?"
Because..
"First Lady threatens to leave fundraiser after lesbian protester heckles her,,
and the White House deletes exchange from official transcript"
Print only the news that fits that agenda.. The NewsSpeak Police hove spoken... Anything else is ThoughtCrime.
:munchin
Scimitar
06-05-2013, 08:15
I am still confused. We have laws that say you can not discriminate against anyone for what ever reason so why do we need a new order or law that only covers this small group.
Oh do not try to debate one of the LGBT could. They are hateful no matter what you say.
I'm a pretty right wing kinda guy, but honestly I never really got involved with the gay rights issue before, until this....
I got to know this law lecturer, nice fella, seemed a mans man, one day I find out he's gay, whatever no big deal, being a church going kinda fella we give each other healthy schtick over our difference in opinion. I always liked how he was a straight up guy, (no pun intended) and not flaming in any way.
Turned out he was pretty involved with the gay lobby, so one day I ask him directly, "Hey IC, I heard that some gays want to make it illegal for me to sit my son down and tell him "Son, we live in a secular, pluralistic republic, and we respect the rights of those who disagree with us, we'll even fight for them, because the same secular pluralism that protects them, protects us, but we in no way accept the homosexual lifestyle as a choice that honors the God we worship, and it is never a valid choice in this family."
In short, his answer was, there's no way we can ever make that illegal Jack, but we can sure make it cost you.
The more I read up on this topic the more I'm realizing that in 10 years time, I will have to tell my son that this is what we believe and that he MUST keep it a secret, or daddy might loss his job, or miss out on a promotion, or little jack might not get the grades he deserves.
I'm an optimist, glass half full kinda fella, and I've looked at this every way I know how.....but frankly.....we're f***ed...
If anyone can show me different, please do, seriously...
S
Scimitar
06-05-2013, 08:33
Duplicate
bandaidbrand
06-05-2013, 08:37
IMO, the same as have additional laws for hate crimes -
If you commit murder, isn't that still murder, regardless of the sexual orientation, race, age, religious affiliation - because we are all created equal?
m&c
There are different degrees of murder though, and while they generally deal with mens rea, they aren't all equal. I see what you mean about the issues of having a separate crime for it, but I think there's an argument for some of the penal code including sentencing guidelines based on the heinousness of the crime both in act and intent.
I'm a pretty right wing kinda guy, but honestly I never really got involved with the gay rights issue before, until this....
I got to know this law lecturer, nice fella, seemed a mans man, one day I find out he's gay, whatever no big deal, being a church going kinda fella we give each other healthy schtick over our difference in opinion. I always liked how he was a straight up guy, (no pun intended) and not flaming in any way.
Turned out he was pretty involved with the gay lobby, so one day I ask him directly, "Hey IC, I heard that some gays want to make it illegal for me to sit my son down and tell him "Son, we live in a secular, pluralistic republic, and we respect the rights of those who disagree with us, we'll even fight for them, because the same secular pluralism that protects them, protects us, but we in no way accept the homosexual lifestyle as a choice that honors the God we worship, and it is never a valid choice in this family."
In short, his answer was, there's no way we can ever make that illegal Jack, but we can sure make it cost you.
The more I read up on this topic the more I'm realizing that in 10 years time, I will have to tell my son that this is what we believe and that he MUST keep it a secret, or daddy might loss his job, or miss out on a promotion, or little jack might not get the grades he deserves.
I'm an optimist, glass half full kinda fella, and I've looked at this every way I know how.....but frankly.....we're f***ed...
If anyone can show me different, please do, seriously...
S
Never capitulate.
Wait 'til after the '14 Congressional elections. With no IRS suppression of grassroots Conservative organizations, I think the Country will be surprised at the percentage of older and younger voters who have had enough of this strongarming.
No reason to worry, anyway. Act. If the liberaces get the House and Senate, it will be because of underhanded, chicane shenanigans, the same way they got the White House in '08 and '10.
Scimitar
06-05-2013, 08:59
Never capitulate.
Wait 'til after the '14 Congressional elections. With no IRS suppression of grassroots Conservative organizations, I think the Country will be surprised at the percentage of older and younger voters have had enough of this strongarming.
No reason to worry, anyway. Act. If the liberaces get the House and Senate, it will be because of underhanded, chicane shenanigans, the same way they got the White House in '08 and '10.
Thanks for the pragmatism Dusty...
S
I wonder if Hillary and others that go out of political favor will be taken out of offical photo's and videos like Stalin did?
Only if Obama wins the 2016 election...
The more I read up on this topic the more I'm realizing that in 10 years time, I will have to tell my son that this is what we believe and that he MUST keep it a secret, or daddy might loss his job, or miss out on a promotion, or little jack might not get the grades he deserves.
And how is that not illegal if not plain just unconstitutional?
Scimitar
06-05-2013, 15:30
And how is that not illegal if not plain just unconstitutional?
Oh it is...
It goes a little something like this...
"So Mr CEO, we're down to two candidates for that new role, what are your thoughts?"
"Well, I like this Jack fella, but our sons go to the same school, and I hear he's pretty high up in the KKK, we can't have that kinda thing going on around here, so I guess we can't give him the job, let's make up other reasons that he didn't get it and pick this other guy.
...KKK = Bigot
...Fast forward 10-20 years into mainstream culture
...Christian evangelical = Bigot
"So Mr CEO, we're down to two candidates for that new role, what are your thoughts?"
"Well, I like this Jack fella, but our sons go to the same school, and I heard that they go to that fundamentalist church down the road, I guess they're one of those bigoted families, we can't be seen condoning that, so I guess we can't give him the job, let's make up other reasons that he didn't get it and pick this other guy.
S
miclo18d
06-05-2013, 16:45
How do they know which church you go to again? You put it on Facebook/Twitter?
Information Technology and pluralism are the new bigotry here.
Ret10Echo
06-05-2013, 16:47
How do they know which church you go to again? You put it on Facebook/Twitter?
Information Technology and pluralism are the new bigotry here.
The IRS provides data on your itemized donations.....
Scimitar
06-05-2013, 22:16
How do they know which church you go to again? You put it on Facebook/Twitter?
Information Technology and pluralism are the new bigotry here.
I'll resent living in a country where I have to keep my well thought out, plausible point of view secret. That ain't freedom folks. My understanding is it is commonly likened to the black racism of the 1960s etc. Which of course has no religious or logical foundation.
S
Again, And how is that not illegal if not plain just unconstitutional?
Scimitar
06-06-2013, 03:41
Again, And how is that not illegal if not plain just unconstitutional?
It is, but good luck proving it.
I am no expert in this field, but I have reason to believe that the gay lobby's agenda is to make it so socially unacceptable to hold such an opinion, that anyone who does so, will lose significant social capital, which translates into some very real stuff.
Let me be clear, I believe the gay community has the right to pursue happiness as they see it, we live in a pluralistic secular society, and I have no nonreligious reason to not allow them their freedom, do they believe the same towards me? I'm not convinced. And the little time I have spent looking for answers, aren't comforting.
S
Irishsquid
06-06-2013, 06:58
Again, And how is that not illegal if not plain just unconstitutional?
Lots of things are illegal. For instance, it's technically illegal to pay equally qualified women less for a job than their male counterparts. Happens all the time, though. All it takes is another reason on paper. It's illegal to cover for a rapist and persecute the victim, but the US Military seem to have mastered that as well, as long as they can put another reason on paper.
In other words, you can't refuse to hire someone for being a homophobe. You can, however, refuse to hire them because *wink nudge* they are un/underqualified.
That said, I just don't get why anyone cares, honestly. I'm a Christian. I also really don't care what anyone else does in the bedroom. HH6 and I will do our thing, and others will do their thing. I've never really understood why churches push "teh gay" as somehow greater than other sins. I believe the Bible instructs us to follow the law of the land, meaning that in this country, exceeding the speed limit is a sin...but I've never heard a priest/preacher/minister say anyone is going to hell for it.
"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life."
Seems simple enough to me. I'll keep driving too fast, and I will mind my own business when homos want to have homo sex.
Edit: Scimitar, I'm not calling you out...just making a generalization.
miclo18d
06-06-2013, 08:02
Seems simple enough to me. I'll keep driving too fast, and I will mind my own business when homos want to have homo sex.
And mind your own business when they want homo-marriage and mind your own business when they want crimes prosecuted more harshly when it's a homo-victim or let's move onto the next group...mind your own business when NAMBLA convinces people that its okay and that they deserve equal rights under the law.
Where does it end? This is the slippery slope.
Irishsquid
06-06-2013, 08:14
And mind your own business when they want homo-marriage and mind your own business when they want crimes prosecuted more harshly when it's a homo-victim or let's move onto the next group...mind your own business when NAMBLA convinces people that its okay and that they deserve equal rights under the law.
Yes, no, and no. Crime is crime, regardless of the intent or the victim. As for NAMBLA, we already have laws in place to protect the underage from sexual predators. For that matter, they are laws which have some basis more solid than religion. All-in-all, I can't think of ANY reason other than religious belief for banning same sex marriage. I'm fully in favor of legalized same sex marriage. I'm also in favor of any individual church having the right to refuse to perform a ceremony for ANY reason. I still maintain we should take ALL legal benefits away from "marriage," and make it purely a commitment between two people. At that point, it will become a whole helluva lot less of an issue for most involved. Let's just get government out of the marriage business.
miclo18d
06-06-2013, 09:35
Let's just get government out of the marriage business.
I'll agree with this statement as it solves the problem quite nicely!
As far as benefits go...filing jointly isn't that big of savings, lets just get rid of the IRS and that solves that problem too!
Insurance...let private companies handle how they want to handle that. If homosexuality is safer than being hetero, let them make a formula and offer homo-partner plans. But we know where that will lead. People that aren't married will get a friend, they will say they are gay to get a better deal on insurance. So we force the insurance company to provide for everyone equally? Well people in a marriage are less likely to act on high risk behaviors, so we're back to letting homosexuals get married which would mean forcing religious institutions OR the state to accept them and we are right back where we started.
So we're back to square one where the sanctity of marriage doesn't necessitate the perversion of same sex sexual encounters, that are not only against God as a religious perspective (Islam, Judaism, Christianity) but also against nature on a Darwinian perspective. How does this help society except to accept someones sexual hedonism? Does sex feel good? Yes. Is there a secondary purpose to that good feeling? Yes, propagation of the species.
Not to mention that what you say no to, that hese things won't happen because there are laws against them, is exactly what is happening in our society. There ARE hate crimes, NAMBLA exists and IS trying to make it acceptable. Homosexuality used to be called sodomy which was unlawful, please explain how that changed. You really think it can't happen?
With regard to the recent posts about marriage - gay or otherwise - I have a couple of articles (links) to offer by David Kupelian, author and journalist that you might find interesting, as well as enlightening; and one from Thomas Sowell:
This is from David Kupelian's book, "The Marketing of Evil", and explains how "gay rights" was "sold" to the American people. Whether or not you agree with him it is an honest look at how the "gay rights" juggernaut has been so successful; and is also an honest and realistic appraisal of why homosexuals demand affirmation of their "lifestyle":
http://www.wnd.com/2005/10/32898/
This link is David Kupelian's Open Letter to Conservatives Who Back Same-Sex Marriage:
http://www.wnd.com/2010/09/199197/
This link is Thomas Sowell on "Gay Marriage Rights":
http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2004/12/31/gay_marriage_rights
Irishsquid
06-07-2013, 05:19
He's advocating more government and more laws to avoid tyranny? Seriously? FORCE me to worship his God, because that's somehow the opposite of tyranny? I think not. Actually, if he sits down to read that Book of his, he might realize that God's original plan for His "chosen people," was that they simply follow him. It was the PEOPLE who demanded a King, and they had nothing but trouble out of the deal. Prior to that, there was no king or any real ruler of Israel...just the Judges, telling people when God was displeased. So yeah...please tell me again how I need some almighty ruler to take away my religious freedom and somehow save me from tyranny in the process.
He is right about one thing, though...there's a huge difference between Libertarianism and Conservatism. One is about freedom, and the other is about control. Proud Libertarian here, though I generally call myself a classical liberal.
So...something I've never understood about people who want Christianity involved in government...how can you still advocate for the existence of a massive defense budget, or any standing army at all? "Turn the other cheek," and all. If you read the words in red, we're supposed to meekly submit to violence and persecution. Jesus never promised freedom or liberty in this life. He promised persecution and suffering for his sake. How can these same Christians advocate Ayn Rand style objectivism? Christ said "If you love me, feed my sheep." A good portion of the epistles to the various early churches were reminding them that they are supposed to be socialists, all taking care of each other.
All-in-all, I think a lot of people need to stop picking and choosing which parts of their religion they are willing to follow.
Now...with all that said, I don't want ANY religious influence on my government. None. Nor do I want ANY government influence on my religion.
As for the rest...he is somehow suggesting that if I have multiple sexual partners, or have sex outside of marriage, I can't be free...and I have to throw the BS flag again. I currently cohabitate with a woman. I call her my wife, but there's no signature on paper stating she is my spouse. Prior to meeting her, I was having a great deal of fun consuming mass quantities of alcohol, getting into bar fights, and having sex with any reasonably attractive female I could talk into bed. I was still not living under tyranny. In fact, I was pretty freakin' free to do as I wished. Let's be honest...I was also very happy. Not as happy as I am now in a meaningful relationship, but I was certainly still happy.
Really, it comes down to this: according to the Bible, there's no "levels," of sin. Being a child rapist or speeding are both sin, punished equally, and on the same level. All can be forgiven, if forgiveness is accepted. As such, the only sin which can't be forgiven is not accepting the forgiveness. Since we're advocating government based on Christianity, will we just foregive everything? Will we put all sins on the same level?
Edit: forgive me if I am rambling a bit. I've had about 5 hours of sleep in the last 8 days, and I'm running on pure caffeine at the moment. My mind is racing much faster than my fingers can type.