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Roguish Lawyer
10-23-2004, 22:24
AD only, how much of your own money do you spend each year on gear (including weapons, ammo and other gear) you use for work? For me, this is interesting public policy information.

If you are no longer on AD, please indicate from when you were on AD.

Secondary question: Should these expenditures be reimbursed by the government?

:munchin

Viking
10-24-2004, 03:42
I would estimate that I spent about $800.00 last year. I had a deployment to OEF that I bought stuff for. All we were issued at the GIP was the MOLLE gear so I spent some money on kit. Hiking boots, good socks, no SPEAR (cold weather) gear was available so I spent money on some of that, uniform mods and other assorted stuff. Upon return, I spent a lot on refit. Gear that didn't work was replaced, the boots and uniforms were worn out and needed replaced etc... I wish we could get reimbursed from the army. We have an SOR but we got less than a third of the items requested so I don't lose any sleep over spending a little to make life better. Just my .02.

The Reaper
10-24-2004, 09:55
AD only, how much of your own money do you spend each year on gear (including weapons, ammo and other gear) you use for work? For me, this is interesting public policy information.

If you are no longer on AD, please indicate from when you were on AD.

Secondary question: Should these expenditures be reimbursed by the government?

:munchin

I would have to agree that $800-$1000 per year is about what I spend as well, though if a big deployment was coming up, or you needed big ticket items like optics or armor, it could be a lot more.

The life you are saving/making easier is your own, so I do not regret it, though I wish it was reimbursable.

I believe that the optimum solution is to allocate money for annual gear purchases at every level from Group all the way down to the individual team member, with receipts required, and a hand receipt for anything over $100 or so that is not expendable.

I believe that it is deductible on your taxes if you hit a certain threshold.

TR

longrange1947
10-24-2004, 10:37
I retired in 90 after 23 years, mostly SF, and will say that I spent tons of money in the 70s while in 10th due to the lousy military gear for cold weather, skiing, and mountain climbing. One year it was to the tune of just over 2000.00 dollars at EMS, and a few other well known climbing stores and cold weather stores. During the 80s the money slowed somewhat as I was in Panama and Central and South America. I would estimate about 400 to 600 a year, but if you ask my wife she would just say to dam much. :)

Should I be reimbused, would have loved to have been but the army did issue me equipment. I just didn't like it as it sucked the big one. Could I have functioned with it, yes but not very comfortably and not all that efficently. When a mountain bag takes up most of the ruck then it is time to get a gore tex bag that does not and that does not stay wet for the rest fo the trip. Try skiing with a 90 pound wet bag on your back on a narrow trail, down hill, with skiis that were designed by a moron and bindings that are cabled and slip out of their settings, attached to leather boots that have no support at all. You get the picture.

I know, stop whinning. :D

mffjm8509
10-24-2004, 12:06
The life you are saving/making easier is your own, so I do not regret it, though I wish it was reimbursable.
TR

I agree w/TR 100%. I can remember several years ago when one of the Team Sergeants in my company with black side experience wrote up a proposal for a few good styles of concealed carry hoslters. The unit then bought us the cheapest nylon Uncle Mikes holster for concealed carry they could find and virtually nobody used it because of its poor retention.

Since that time I have spared no expense to have the gear that I need, reguardless of whats on the SOR or issued at CIF/OCIE.

Let me give you a few examples of what expenses we're incurring for this upcoming deployment. :boohoo

Civilian clothes: Guidance has been issued on the wear of nonstandard uniforms for the deployment but no plan to cover the cost has been addressed. Block leave starts tommorow for 2 weeks and the trip starts soon after that. No decision will be made in time to make a purchase and recieve delivery prior to deployment. The answer has been for guys to purchase out of pocket durable gear (5.11) for use. We wont be reimbursed for the expense, but need the gear, so I'll have it.

1911 upgrades: We recieved roughly 42 1911 pistols in the compnay, (my team got 7 of them). The teams submitted for purchase of upgrade parts as these pistols are in poor repair. Approximately $300 per pistol for parts (spring/pin upgrade kit, 18.5# recoil spring, Novak sights, extended safety, trigger upgrade, and a new barrel). This amount got shot down because "we're getting issued new.45s at some point in the future". Again, I choose to carry the .45 over the M9 so I'll make the necessary upgrades to make it reliable, even if the unit wont pay for it.

I'm also a guy that doesnt wait for the last minute to do things. I hate procrastination! When I see a good piece of gear that makes my job easier, more comfortable or more secure....I buy it. Many times, down the road the unit purchases it as well, but I figure why should I have to wait?

After about 11 years of this, I have compiled virtually a complete issue of CIF gear, most of my own team gear, and several comfort items that I regularly use. About the only thing I have issued is body armor, and a few 10th Group specific items (skis, pac boots, overwhites). I doubt I could apply a cost to what I've spent over that many years, but its been mainly for 2 reasons. First, because I never want to be in the posistion of needing something that I didnt have ; secondly, because in 19 years of service I've grown tired of dealing with CIF.

I retired in 90 after 23 years, mostly SF, and will say that I spent tons of money in the 70s while in 10th due to the lousy military gear for cold weather, skiing, and mountain climbing.


LR, this is one place that I think we've finally gotten it right, (except for having support kids work in OCIE and issuing it out to thier buddies). Of course there is always newer, better, lighter gear coming out but 10th Group seems to have had a head start on a lot of this gear years before any of the other units in SF or the Army.

mp

Jack Moroney (RIP)
10-24-2004, 13:18
This is a particular sore point with me. I figure that if the military is going to send you off to do something then they should provide you with the resources with which to do it and not apply their logic of one size fits all folks, all missions, and all situations. I never could figure out the logic involved in how folks were outfitted for mission requirements when it just made a whole lot more sense to let the team fiqure out what they needed and then provide them with the bucks to get what they needed either in country or prior to deployment. One of my threatened courts martials involved my audacity of allowing folks to buy dry suits on the economy, get them fitted to them personally, and adding them to their personal clothing list so that they could take them with them to their next assignment if they were going to a dive team. They tried to hang me for misappropriation of government funds, however it wasn't our government's funds that I used and I took great pleasure in telling them when they started their Article 32 investigation to go pound sand. Damn I just love bureaucrates :rolleyes:

Jack Moroney

The Reaper
10-24-2004, 13:47
I wonder why instead of having a civilian gear section in the Clothing Sales Store and a Government credit card (DPP) which can be used for everything including buying gas, they don't just put an optional gear section in the unit CIF and let you sign (and be accountable) for whatever you want.

Set up a catalog of items, with additional ones able to be nominated by users. Stock with basic non-custom fit items.

Teams get a certain amount annually to get and maintain team gear. Pre-deployment, teams get an amount of money to spend as they see fit, based on the length of the upcoming deployment.

Company commanders and above have an additional slush fund to allocate out to teams as they see fit.

Example, new 18C arrives, and gets his issue and MOS specific gear, plus the ability to select (for issue) up to $X worth of HSLD equipment, be it a vest, stove, weapons light, tent, sleeping bag, ruck, etc. Temporary loaners are available for the guy to decide what works best for him. DX is authorized.

Everybody gets $Y amount per year to update and maintain cutting edge equipment to make them more survivable, effective, or comfortable. Team guys and SOT-As get the most $. After the one time big allowance for new guys to initially gear up, as an incentive, guys with the most team time get the most allowance.

Guys who are deploying get an additional $Z per month to get more/better/newer gear. 179 days deployed in 12 months and you get an extra year's allowance.

You could limit certain items (like vests, etc.) to team guys, SOT-As or 18 CMF and keep the latest Gore-Tex Gucci gear off of the weenies from the PAC and the S-4 Shop as well.

When you leave the unit, all durable items have to be returned, or allow guys with a certain amout of team time (or moving to another team) to keep a certain amount of the gear.

The allowance can be carried over from FY to FY, but never converted to cash to keep it from turrning into new drapes for the house while the soldier is deployed.

Just a few random thoughts.

TR

BMT
10-24-2004, 16:06
You guys would of went crazy in SOG's House 40.

BMT

Desert Fox
10-24-2004, 21:35
I'm young, no wife, I don't drink....and I recognize myself in the definition of Militarymorons.com. I spent many thousand dollars this years.

Razor
10-25-2004, 10:26
Viking (and anyone else for that matter), I'd love to see your thoughts on gear that worked and didn't work in the Professional Gear forum. Your collected experiences could come in handy for guys getting ready to head downrange and are putting out their own cash for non-issue items.

The Reaper
10-25-2004, 10:56
Viking (and anyone else for that matter), I'd love to see your thoughts on gear that worked and didn't work in the Professional Gear forum. Your collected experiences could come in handy for guys getting ready to head downrange and are putting out their own cash for non-issue items.

Concur.

Love to hear from you guys, and help some others as well.

TR

Viking
10-25-2004, 21:06
wilco