View Full Version : Trump and Revolution
Trump Tweeted “We should have a revolution in this country.” That was the opinion of Donald Trump after President Obama won re-election last night.
Instead of publicly fermenting revolution, I'd rather he buy up a few papers and the three networks. Eliminate the political bigots and return them back to real news organizations that report the truth no matter where the chips fall.
Radar Rider
11-08-2012, 22:30
Yes; a revolution.
Not a revolution in the militant sense, but a revolution of the citizens voting for a realistic, better future. Maybe in 2016...
I continue to hope for change.
I say a mass mob like a tweet mob or some sense.
I say a mass mob like a tweet mob or some sense.
We should have a "dance off" flash mob!!!!
spherojon
11-09-2012, 01:12
We should have a "dance off" flash mob!!!!
Depends, who picks the music?
Eliminate the political bigots and return them back to real news organizations that report the truth no matter where the chips fall.MOO, there's a growing disconnect between (a) the criticisms of the MSM for being "biased" and (b) the argument that a corporation's business practices are matters for bosses and shareholders to decide, and that market forces will be the arbiter of success or failure.
To me, a way to close this gap is to find ways to encourage interest parties to broaden the range of their viewing/reading/listening so that they're comfortable engaging multiple POVs and then deciding for themselves what is factually accurate and which analyses are the most perceptive. From there, consumers will decide if they want to pay for professional journalism or to keep slopping around in the blogosphere.
YMMV.
blue02hd
11-09-2012, 05:48
Sig,
I agree with your latest post, however my experiences from traveling and working around this globe of ours indicate that:
1. Sheep don't read.
2. Sheep don't care.
3. Those in power will always find ways to keep it.
Pain is the greatest educator.
I truly wish we were looking at different problem sets, but it seems this is our calling for now.
There will be no revolution. There will be no secession of any state.
While there are Red States and Blue States each has a good number of the other side.
The government has it's money tendrils winding through all levels of Federal, State and Local governments. Everybody is addicted to the money.
Even now the GOP-e leadership is wondering how they can pander to groups to buy votes. The D's have brought up the GOP-e leadership could get more of the Latino vote if they would just jump on board the D ship and pass the DREAM act. Gee, why would the D's suggest that?
It is now just a slow slide to becoming Greece.
Only then will the bad stuff happen - and then anything goes.
MOO, there's a growing disconnect between (a) the criticisms of the MSM for being "biased" and (b) the argument that a corporation's business practices are matters for bosses and shareholders to decide, and that market forces will be the arbiter of success or failure.
I've been seeing this opinion from several members of the former profession once known as journalism. If this is true, then don't you think that this "business" no longer needs any of special protections afforded it under the First Amendment? As a free competitive business it would also be subject to regulations. In fact regulations against most forms of irresponsible, yet free speech such as lying, misrepresentation, labeling, etc. are currently levied against business. And then there is the slander/libel laws the press often gets a pass on due to the current burden-of-proof levels. Are so-called journalist ready to have industry-wide regulations imposed upon them?
As for entities that are too big to fail/exist - the combinations of news/entertainment/broadcast/cable/print/big screen/Internet/etc. by single companies is obscene IMO. Disney, Sony, Comcast, and Murdoch!
To me, a way to close this gap is to find ways to encourage interest parties to broaden the range of their viewing/reading/listening so that they're comfortable engaging multiple POVs and then deciding for themselves what is factually accurate and which analyses are the most perceptive. From there, consumers will decide if they want to pay for professional journalism or to keep slopping around in the blogosphere.
YMMV.
A very tall order my friend. Not that I disagree. What your talking about is "fundamentally transforming America". But with High School graduation rates falling precipitously and ADHD rates skyrocketing, I don't think that even Stewart/Coulbert can hold the attention of the coming generations.
As always, MOO ;) :munchin
ZonieDiver
11-09-2012, 11:31
What your talking about is "fundamentally transforming America".
As we used to say, "There it is.":D
Someone should start a Super-PAC called "Fundamentally Transforming America" asap, and hit people up for BIG bucks - starting with that asshat Trump. (He should pay up, or STFU...AND get a real haircut! I suggest 'high and tight'.)
(Stolen idea) IF you aren't working with young people... start. If you're in scouting, stay. Work harder. If your church has a youth group, get active with it. IF it doesn't, talk to the pastor/priest and START one. IF there's a kid in your neighborhood with NO father around - step forward. Take him to a ballgame, hunting, fishing.
The "liberals" didn't "take over" education. WE (Rs, conservatives, etc) abandoned it too them. When I started teaching high school (1975) in the metro Phoenix area, at least half or more of our faculty of 125 were on the 'right', and at least 1/5 of them were veterans.
When I retired in 2011, there were only about a dozen of us "righties" in a similar-sized staff. Surrounded and outnumbered - and I was the only airborne vet - out of 6, including the two JROTC instructors. (And one of those vets was pretty far to the left!)
When I work in the community, I don't see a lot of my conservative brothers and sisters beside me. I see liberal 'do-gooders'. If WE want to change things in the way people act...and react to conservatives... WE need to put our words into actions.
Or WE can sit on our asses here and whine.
Barbarian
11-09-2012, 11:52
ZonieDiver's post (#10)
Excellent post. You hit it dead on. Being a good influence....... investing in the future.
As we used to say, "There it is.":D
Someone should start a Super-PAC called "Fundamentally Transforming America" asap, and hit people up for BIG bucks - starting with that asshat Trump. (He should pay up, or STFU...AND get a real haircut! I suggest 'high and tight'.)
(Stolen idea) IF you aren't working with young people... start. If you're in scouting, stay. Work harder. If your church has a youth group, get active with it. IF it doesn't, talk to the pastor/priest and START one. IF there's a kid in your neighborhood with NO father around - step forward. Take him to a ballgame, hunting, fishing.
The "liberals" didn't "take over" education. WE (Rs, conservatives, etc) abandoned it too them. When I started teaching high school (1975) in the metro Phoenix area, at least half or more of our faculty of 125 were on the 'right', and at least 1/5 of them were veterans.
When I retired in 2011, there were only about a dozen of us "righties" in a similar-sized staff. Surrounded and outnumbered - and I was the only airborne vet - out of 6, including the two JROTC instructors. (And one of those vets was pretty far to the left!)
When I work in the community, I don't see a lot of my conservative brothers and sisters beside me. I see liberal 'do-gooders'. If WE want to change things in the way people act...and react to conservatives... WE need to put our words into actions.
Or WE can sit on our asses here and whine.
Great post, Zonie. Absolutey nailed it.
We also need to enlighten women, Latinos and college students as to the potential for economic disaster with the status quo.
Stargazer
11-09-2012, 12:29
Informative chart showing the shift in demographics.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/11/08/us/politics/obama-was-not-as-strong-as-in-2008-but-strong-enough.html
If you look at the chart you will see that women did move back towards the republican ticket, whites, along with men, those that earn less than $30K and $50K or more. Towns and rural areas remained strong, while suburbia moved back as well. Even those in cities moved back towards the republican ticket but remain the democratic center.
I was surprised to see that Asians moved towards the democratic ticket (along with hispanic/latinos although this was expected).
Also -- 18 to 29 year-olds moved back towards republican but look at the shift in 30 to 44 year-olds :eek:
I, too, agree with the challenge Zoniediver sets forth. Great post.
Zonie you remember back in the day if you became a teacher it was an automatic deferment. That's where all the libs hid so they wouldn't be sent to Vietnam. Is it any wonder that after spewing left wing ideology to our children for the past 40 years we now have a 2 term Obama. To believe we can intellectually reason with this group is wishful thinking. They not only control our crumbling education system but the media.
We are heading towards a turbulent time in our country, one I never thought I would see.l I love your post but that ship may of already sailed.
Great post, Zonie. Absolutey nailed it.
We also need to enlighten women, Latinos and college students as to the potential for economic disaster with the status quo.
I am tired of you acting as if no White Male would or did vote for Obama. Had they not done so, Romney would have won. You can not portend to put the blame squarely on one or two sets of shoulders. Without any one of those groups going for Obama, he wouldn't have won.
This election is on all our shoulders.
Roguish Lawyer
11-09-2012, 15:23
This election is on all our shoulders.
Not mine. :mad:
As we used to say, "There it is.":D
Someone should start a Super-PAC called "Fundamentally Transforming America" asap, and hit people up for BIG bucks - starting with that asshat Trump. (He should pay up, or STFU...AND get a real haircut! I suggest 'high and tight'.)
(Stolen idea) IF you aren't working with young people... start. If you're in scouting, stay. Work harder. If your church has a youth group, get active with it. IF it doesn't, talk to the pastor/priest and START one. IF there's a kid in your neighborhood with NO father around - step forward. Take him to a ballgame, hunting, fishing.
The "liberals" didn't "take over" education. WE (Rs, conservatives, etc) abandoned it too them. When I started teaching high school (1975) in the metro Phoenix area, at least half or more of our faculty of 125 were on the 'right', and at least 1/5 of them were veterans.
When I retired in 2011, there were only about a dozen of us "righties" in a similar-sized staff. Surrounded and outnumbered - and I was the only airborne vet - out of 6, including the two JROTC instructors. (And one of those vets was pretty far to the left!)
When I work in the community, I don't see a lot of my conservative brothers and sisters beside me. I see liberal 'do-gooders'. If WE want to change things in the way people act...and react to conservatives... WE need to put our words into actions.
Or WE can sit on our asses here and whine.
This has haunted me Zonie. I've been working on some ideas. Some educational ideas. And you are so absolutely on the mark. I believe there is a real opportunity there for many of us here to facilitate something along these lines you just described. Idea fairy alert!
"How can you change the world if you're not willing to even do the dishes?" - P.J. O'Rourke (paraphrased)
I am of the opinion that an intelligent discussion with an otherwise brainwashed left-leaning young person can erase years-worth of brainwashing."Brainwashed" left leaning young persons are not the only youths who don't know what they're talking about.
Doc Diego
11-10-2012, 12:35
It is virtually impossible to have an intelligent discussion with a "brainwashed" left leaning young person.
Dozer523
11-10-2012, 15:35
. A person who has studied all sides of the argument, and just ultimately ends up being left-of-center I do not consider a brainwashed person.Well ...
Thank you. (so there! Née ner née ner)
I don't mean that all left-leaning people are brainwashed, when I say brainwashed, I mean the ones that think the way they do because they have essentially been indoctrinated by leftists and have never heard the alternative points of view. A person who has studied all sides of the argument, and just ultimately ends up being left-of-center I do not consider a brainwashed person.BS2004--
How would you categorize yourself: as someone who thinks the way he does because he's been indoctrinated or as someone who has reached a POV after "studying all sides of the argument"?
GratefulCitizen
11-10-2012, 17:40
As we used to say, "There it is.":D
Someone should start a Super-PAC called "Fundamentally Transforming America" asap, and hit people up for BIG bucks - starting with that asshat Trump. (He should pay up, or STFU...AND get a real haircut! I suggest 'high and tight'.)
(Stolen idea) IF you aren't working with young people... start. If you're in scouting, stay. Work harder. If your church has a youth group, get active with it. IF it doesn't, talk to the pastor/priest and START one. IF there's a kid in your neighborhood with NO father around - step forward. Take him to a ballgame, hunting, fishing.
The "liberals" didn't "take over" education. WE (Rs, conservatives, etc) abandoned it too them. When I started teaching high school (1975) in the metro Phoenix area, at least half or more of our faculty of 125 were on the 'right', and at least 1/5 of them were veterans.
When I retired in 2011, there were only about a dozen of us "righties" in a similar-sized staff. Surrounded and outnumbered - and I was the only airborne vet - out of 6, including the two JROTC instructors. (And one of those vets was pretty far to the left!)
When I work in the community, I don't see a lot of my conservative brothers and sisters beside me. I see liberal 'do-gooders'. If WE want to change things in the way people act...and react to conservatives... WE need to put our words into actions.
Or WE can sit on our asses here and whine.
Centralized methods of influence have been captured and those influenced are fickle.
Focused, decentralized influence plus time is the answer.
Deeply influence just 10 people over the course of your life and teach them to deeply influence just 10 over their lives, etc.
After several generations, that influence becomes large.
Even with a slow start, exponential growth wins.
Old Dog New Trick
11-10-2012, 19:07
This has haunted me Zonie. I've been working on some ideas. Some educational ideas. And you are so absolutely on the mark. I believe there is a real opportunity there for many of us here to facilitate something along these lines you just described. Idea fairy alert!
JMHO
Until the Good Ship Lollypop, sinks in a 'perfectly' bad storm...the changing currents of today will continue to swamp any inclination of how turbulent these times are.
When county organizers pave a crop field to build a supermarket. When immigration panels deprive seasonal workers the ability to work below existing mandatory pay scales to provide a service without benefits and a living condition that few Americans will tolerate. And, as long as OPM continues to feed, clothe, and provide comfortable shelter to the masses. Our "democracy" will continue to slide into obscurity and demise.
I think it has to fail before change can take root and grow again. When food prices out cost the subsidy or are no longer available to the average consumer. When free shelter is no longer habitable, and utility companies can't provide a service based on IOUs and promises. And the neediest of us finally realize they have been duped by the very system that allowed them live a comfortable life without earning it...
Then change will happen. Those that have prepared, or struggled through while maintaining the courage and conviction of what made this a great country at one time will find themselves in the driver's seat and at the helm to guide the country back to the richness it once provided.
It doesn't take an observant person (I was gonna say idiot) like myself to see a county by county election map and see that all those people who produce something be it food, or manufacture, or energy are "RED" and they are the people who build something with their hands or provide something tangible to others. Their voice may not be very loud right now, but when the howling of the city masses (Blue zones throughout America) finally wake up and realize beef comes from a cow and not the freezer section and those cows have been sent to live elsewhere in conditions worse than the immigrant workers used to tolerate for less than minimum wage to pick fruit from a tree miles from nowhere. Then, the ship will right itself.
Note: I'm not trying to use failed immigration policies of the past as support for illegal immigration, but as an example that the poor and destitute of other less developed countries made huge sacrifices to better their family condition where American labor laws and practices have left a void in cheap manual labor that is and will not be filled by those Americans currently collecting free government benefits without having to earn them or make any sacrifice whatsoever.
So, I'll call this "apple economics" where the cost of picking an apple outweighs the benefit of taking them to market, where no one can afford to buy the apple so they all rot somewhere...as opposed to the Apple economics of Steve Jobs, who produced something you can't eat, doesn't provide heat or shelter, and would only be suitable for someone like Lady GaGa to wear as a fashion statement. :eek:
Freedumb will have to be experienced before freedom (financial, economic, energy, personal, and world influence) can claw it's way back to America. Right now, alls we have is time to prepare our personal lifeboats because the ship is taking on water. When it sinks, there will be those that can swim, those who cannot, and hopefully fewer of those that cling to anything that floats. ;)
Old Dog, I hear you.
My intent is to prevent what you paint as inevitable. Maybe if a few more of us decided to start, as Zonie suggests, teaching more and more people not only how to swim, but why...
Many have predicted the fall of our Republic. It is my oath to prevent that.
Old Dog New Trick
11-11-2012, 00:45
Old Dog, I hear you.
My intent is to prevent what you paint as inevitable. Maybe if a few more of us decided to start, as Zonie suggests, teaching more and more people not only how to swim, but why...
Many have predicted the fall of our Republic. It is my oath to prevent that.
I know, it was/is my oath as well, but it's an uphill battle to overcome the current level of entitlement in this country. Zonie's plan would/will require maybe the greatest infiltration of our lifetime by some really good talkers to get into the heads of the present or next generation to show them the errors of their way and that of their parents.
Our zone of influence is small when compared to the politicians and teachers that keep promising rainbows and unicorns. When they figure out rainbows are fleeting and unicorns don't exist, maybe there will be hope.
I've not given up, but I fear it will take a scorched earth policy to change direction.
ETA: If Trump really wants a revolution he should start by funding one and then getting his super rich friends on board. Maybe offer college scholarship to kids from conservative backgrounds to study to become educators and then provide the incentive to teach.
I know, it was/is my oath as well, but it's an uphill battle to overcome the current level of entitlement in this country. Zonie's plan would/will require maybe the greatest infiltration of our lifetime by some really good talkers to get into the heads of the present or next generation to show them the errors of their way and that of their parents.
Our zone of influence is small when compared to the politicians and teachers that keep promising rainbows and unicorns. When they figure out rainbows are fleeting and unicorns don't exist, maybe there will be hope.
I've not given up, but I fear it will take a scorched earth policy to change direction.ODNT--
If I may offer a suggestion. If you've not done so already, give Twitter a try. In my limited experience, there are a number of public figures who, despite their own asshattery (which is sometimes tongue in cheek as much as anything else) will take notice of an adroitly phrased and well timed counterpoint. In some instances, this kind of interaction may mean reading through a stream of comments that will have one climbing the walls. And at times, one may realize that a mask of civility is just a ploy to draw in trolls into pitfalls.
But it is my perception that some public figures and their legions of followers do take the conversations seriously and that some are looking for honest debate with people with different POVs.
Similarly, some public figures will accept "spot corrections" and change the trajectory of their comments. As an example, during the first presidential debate, a handful of reporters for the L.A.-area NBC affiliate joined in on the expanding dog pile on Jim Lehrer. Now, it may just have been coincidental, these comments stopped after someone sent them a Tweet suggesting that they should not feed into the widely held perception that members of the Fourth Estate don't have an ethical compass.
More recently (on election night) a very prominent African American activist (Chuck D, the former front man for Public Enemy) signed off for the night after he received two Tweets asking why he was fanning the flames of America's racial divide after he'd spent so much time over the past twenty years urging his "constituents" to temper emotion with critical thought. The next day, he jumped into a growing brawl over an African American actor (Stacey Dash) who had supported Governor Romney.
While one cannot always be certain that correlation is causation, I believe that a sustained effort, especially if it is en masse, can make a difference.
#MOO #YMMV
Our zone of influence is small when compared to the politicians and teachers that keep promising rainbows and unicorns. When they figure out rainbows are fleeting and unicorns don't exist, maybe there will be hope.
I've not given up, but I fear it will take a scorched earth policy to change direction.
ETA: If Trump really wants a revolution he should start by funding one and then getting his super rich friends on board. Maybe offer college scholarship to kids from conservative backgrounds to study to become educators and then provide the incentive to teach.
I guess we should all put down the XM-202's. I'm working on some ideas to try and 'force multiply' ourselves using the people who paid for the commercials/phone calls to expand that zone of influence at a more personal level.
If I may offer a suggestion. If you've not done so already, give Twitter a try.
While one cannot always be certain that correlation is causation, I believe that a sustained effort, especially if it is en masse, can make a difference.
Great idea Sig!
Old Dog New Trick
11-11-2012, 01:33
Sigaba -
I do believe that technology will and has influenced people's ideas. However, it's also a double edged knife - it cuts both ways.
Seems to me, that if a lie is repeated enough these days it becomes truth long before it's debunked and the debunking gets buried in multiplicity of the information stream.
In the past, people wrote letters to their congressional representative, then form letters, then phone calls, then e-mail, and now instant message and twitter...the process to overwhelm has always been the same, the method has only changed because of technology.
The problem remains the same...is anyone really listening?
Old Dog New Trick
11-11-2012, 01:47
I guess we should all put down the XM-202's. I'm working on some ideas to try and 'force multiply' ourselves using the people who paid for the commercials/phone calls to expand that zone of influence at a more personal level.
I've heard over $5B was spent by all interested parties running for election and we ended up with the status quo and some pluses and minuses in congress.
Don't put down the XM-202, but we need a better information weapon. I don't know that twitter is the answer but maybe it will gain traction as a political tool.
The current crop of mass media from news to social programming is nothing like the old days. That will have to change to reach the masses.
Utah Bob
11-11-2012, 16:57
Short of some genetic tweaking, I don't have a solution.:rolleyes: