View Full Version : Texas Couple Charged with Supplying Ammo to Mexican Cartels
Team Sergeant
08-22-2012, 11:05
WOW, it's a good thing the HSI (Homeland Security Investigations), the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the Laredo Police Department caught these hardened criminals. Who knows where that ammo may have ended up!
Or wait, maybe the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and Department of Homeland Security were just infuriated that those individuals were muscling in on their turf?
We know that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the Department of Justice and the Department of Homeland Security enjoys being the single point purveyor of fine assault weapons to the mexican drug cartels. (And that no one there will go to jail for selling assault rifles to the cartels, even when the murder of a federal agent is involved.)
On second thought, this looks to be a mafia style tactic and the ATF, DHS want to "take out" the low level suppliers before they become as big a supplier to the mexican drug cartels as the ATF & DHS?
I don't know about you but I am feeling real cozy knowing that dozens of highly trained federal "special agents" from the ATF and DHS were probably involved in the take down of this "couple". I have no doubt that this situation was far above the criminal fighting capacity of the Laredo Police Department.
I know my tax dollars are being spent well.
I vote we expend the federal agencies and set up a Federal "Entertainment" Agency, with all the "Special Agents" and all the powers of being a federal agent and we start taking out the small movies producers, bad comedians, non A- List stars etc. We could then go to a movie or stand-up comedy knowing it would always be a hit! We could expand the Federal Entertainment Agency (FEA) to target poor quality television and radio talk shows!
Anyone hear of the DHS apprehending a terrorist lately? Last 5 years? Last ten years?
Yeah, let's spend another 100 billion on worthless federal agencies................. I'm also for disarming all of them except the FBI & DEA.
We need to abolish the DHS and ATF and allow the local governments do their own policing.
Texas Couple Charged with Supplying Ammo to Mexican Cartels
El Paso, Texas – Federal authorities arrested a couple who own a firearms store in Laredo, Texas, for allegedly selling large quantities ammunition that were destined for Mexican drug cartels.
The special agent in charge of Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) in San Antonio, Jerry Robinette, said that the arrests were part of the commitment of U.S. authorities to halt the illegal flow of weapons and ammunition to organized criminal groups in Mexico.
Robert Jacaman Sr. and his wife, Veronica Jacaman, are accused of selling ammunition to undocumented immigrants, among other charges.
The couple are facing 11 federal charges for crimes related to weapons and ammunition trafficking, said Robinette, who added that the prosecution will ask the judge to deny bail.
The charges against the couple include conspiring to provide ammunition and ammo clips to undocumented immigrants, as well as ammunition and an assault rifle to convicted criminals.
The text of the accusation says that from January to July 2012 the couple conspired to sell large amounts of ammunition to an immigrant who was in the country illegally.
The pair are also facing charges for selling a CMMG, Model 4SA semiautomatic rifle to a convicted felon, as well as illegally exporting ammunition for assault weapons to Mexico.
The cartridges, weapons and ammunition were intercepted by the authorities before they reached Mexico.
The investigation was conducted by HSI, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the Laredo Police Department.
Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/08/21/texas-couple-charged-with-supplying-ammo-to-mexican-cartels/#ixzz24INm5ynV
I understand that in Mexico they have a surpluss of assault weapons, but not enough ammo. Could be a problem. Kind of a supply and demand thing.
The text of the accusation says that from January to July 2012 the couple conspired to sell large amounts of ammunition to an immigrant who was in the country illegally.
How are we supposed to know he was here illegally? What happened to amnesty? What happened to no profiling, no asking for I.D., no asking citizen status? Everyone is here legally now, right?
Streck-Fu
08-22-2012, 11:59
I'm also for disarming all of them except the FBI & DEA.
Why not abolosh the DEA and have those duties absobed into the FBI? If certain really must remain probitied, why have a dedicated law enforcement agency with all the beauracracy that goes with it?
It's not like the DEA actually has succeeded in their mission....
As for the article, lots of information missing....Did the purchaser of the weapon present ID and pass the background check? They cite only one weapon being sold....:rolleyes:
There is no ID required or restrictions on buying ammo, how can they be charged?
What, no Walmarts down there?
Badger52
08-22-2012, 13:46
I know my tax dollars are being spent well.
DHS, FY / In Billions:
03 - 31.2
04 - 35.6
05 - 38.5
06 - 40.4
07 - 42.8
08 - 46.4
09 - 52.7
10 - 56.0
11 - 56.3
12 - 59.7
13 - 59.0 requested
DoJ BATFE payroll $1.1B / ~ 5,000 FT positions
(Big Sis publishes this stuff.)
We need to abolish the DHS and ATF and allow the local governments do their own policing. I'm on-board with that in a NY-f'n instant.
Badger52
08-22-2012, 13:51
The cartridges, weapons and ammunition were intercepted by the authorities before they reached Mexico.Have to put that down in my I'll-Be-Damned book...
:rolleyes:
mojaveman
08-22-2012, 18:19
Let's not talk about this too loudly because the anti Second Ammendment politicians are going to use this incident to stop internet ammo sales as well as unregulated over the counter sales. They tried it in California a few years ago.
The Reaper
08-22-2012, 18:35
Putting aside the issue that ammo and mags are not illegal to sell over the counter in any quantities to adults in Texas, how in the world would you know someone is an illegal alien if you are not allowed to ask anyone, including the Feds?:rolleyes:
TR
Where else are they supposed to get ammo for all those guns the ATF sent over there?
FWIW, a local broadcast news story is available here (http://www.pro8news.com/news/local/Jacaman-Couple-Appear-in-Federal-Court-166966776.html). The video includes a sound bite from the accused for a previously aired news story.
Profile of judge handling the case is available there (http://www.txs.uscourts.gov/district/judges/dsq/dsqannouncement.htm). Her professional contact information and schedule can be found here (http://www.txs.uscourts.gov/district/judges/dsq/home.htm).
Badger52
08-24-2012, 06:19
Let's not talk about this too loudly because the anti Second Ammendment politicians are going to use this incident to stop internet ammo sales as well as unregulated over the counter sales. They tried it in California a few years ago.They're probably gonna take a break, what with this, the success of Proj Gunwalker, and cleaning up that geriatric Waffle House gang. I mean a billion+ salary budget only goes so far and you have to save some for performance awards.
So the Feds seized all his guns and inventory....now what? Are they going to give them all to the cartel?
I never thought of that before that all the people that have their guns there for gunsmith work, or on layaway cant get any of them back! That is flat out stealing by the feds. Imagine if you had a 10k-20k machine gun on layway. All that money, out the window.
Badger52
08-26-2012, 10:44
That is flat out stealing by the feds. Imagine if you had a 10k-20k machine gun on layway. All that money, out the window.You might get your $200 stamp fee back; after all "it's a tax, not a penalty."
As mentioned earlier in this thread, there is NO ID REQUIREMENT (http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/) to buy ammunition in Texas, so how would the proprietor know WHERE the ammo is going if he's not allowed to ask WHO is buying the ammo?
Appears to me that BATF not only cut out the middleman, but infringed upon the sovereign rights of US citizens trying to make a living. Owning a gun store and selling ammunition are synonymous and are completely legal. Less can and has been said about Fast and Furious.
Expect a lawsuit and a huge settlement.
Expect a lawsuit and a huge settlement.
I don't know if that's really going to happen right now or not. They are very much going the ruby ridge/Janet Reno route again. I don't think they really give a crap about the law, or anyone's rights or freedoms. Generally when the ATF does a sting, if the person was a bad guy or good guy, the ATF will spend millions in legal fees trying to put that person in jail, right or wrong. The sad part is, in most of the their past cases, the people prosecuted were in fact innocent people trying to do the right thing. Its easier for them to criminalize innocent people than it is to actually find and prosecute real criminals.
Remember the National Guard soldier with the Semi-auto Olympic AR15 that shot auto with a slam fire malfunction on the range? The ATF spent months trying to prove the weapon could fire full auto all the time. They gave up, and almost closed the case and let the guy go. Then they decided to "try again" with a specially made ammo, that they made, with a very light hit primer. Bingo, they got it to shoot auto, then prosecuted the soldier for "illegal possession and transfer of a machine gun." The ATF fought it so hard, even Olympic arms stepped out on the argument. The point is, the gun did it on a fluke, and unfortunately at the worst time for a cop to hear it at the range. The ATF agent could not prove the gun could do it in the Firearms Technology Branch after testing it. The guy was so pissed off that he could not prosecute the Soldier, he "forcibly made it work". Read the court papers, its crazy stuff.
Its a very dangerous businesses being an FFL these days. SOT/manufacturer is a hell of a lot worse. Importers have all kinds of trouble with the ATF as well. No firearm dealer too big or too small will they not go after.
I know a FFL that nearly went to jail because a firearm was missing from his records during a compliance check. The guys records were immaculate. What "firearm" was it that the ATF found that was not on the records? A damn Crossman BB gun. The ATF agent could not tell the difference between a BB gun and a real gun. It took a lawyer and several months of argument before it was finally figured out that the serial number they had was a BB gun. They would not even tell him which gun they "found" or what it was. Just that he was out of compliance, and he would be seen in court.
I know of another case where a different ATF agent during a compliance check, with a different FFL, nearly brought a guy to court because he had a weapon with "two serial numbers". What were the two serial numbers? A pistol with a laserlyte on it. They read the serial from the laser and the gun, and assumed it was a pistol with two serial numbers. These are the types of people we are talking about here.
With this one of the ammo sales, they claim that he also sold a firearm to a "undercover" felon. Hard to know what really happened there. They claim that was their real reason for the sting. I will wait for the court documents to see what the ATF's real claims and evidence are.
"Seizure is our business" -BATFE motto
tom kelly
08-26-2012, 19:38
I feel a lot safer here in Phila. knowing the Special Agents for the above listed Agencies are in Texas plying their trade. Does anyone know why the DEA badges do NOT have numbers? TK
I feel a lot safer here in Phila. knowing the Special Agents for the above listed Agencies are in Texas plying their trade. Does anyone know why the DEA badges do NOT have numbers? TK
They do!
Remember the National Guard soldier with the Semi-auto Olympic AR15 that shot auto with a slam fire malfunction on the range? The ATF spent months trying to prove the weapon could fire full auto all the time. They gave up, and almost closed the case and let the guy go. Then they decided to "try again" with a specially made ammo, that they made, with a very light hit primer. Bingo, they got it to shoot auto, then prosecuted the soldier for "illegal possession and transfer of a machine gun." The ATF fought it so hard, even Olympic arms stepped out on the argument. The point is, the gun did it on a fluke, and unfortunately at the worst time for a cop to hear it at the range. The ATF agent could not prove the gun could do it in the Firearms Technology Branch after testing it. The guy was so pissed off that he could not prosecute the Soldier, he "forcibly made it work". Read the court papers, its crazy stuff.
the framing of David Olofson.
David had loaned a semi-auto rifle to a young man who later would prove to have been an ATF snitch. Conveniently, when the young man took it to the range (without David being present), it malfunctioned after a couple hundred rounds and began to double or triple uncontrollably, firing out-of-battery, a dangerous condition. Jody Keeku, the ATF agent in charge of the case, sent the rifle to the Firearms Technology Branch in West Virginia for testing. They found it to be a malfunctioning semi-auto rifle, not a machine gun. Keeku told them to retest it using soft-primer ammunition. Told what to find, the FTB guys "found" it to be an automatic weapon and Olofson was charged with transferring a full-auto weapon in violation of the National Firearms Act of 1934.
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/01/atf-execs-ululations-of-agony-not-so.html
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/01/atf-execs-ululations-of-agony-not-so.html
Your bloggers story, while interesting and plausibly true, is not what the court papers say. Nor the petition for Certiorari. Its been a few years after all. For the point I was trying to make above, I believe it still is significant to the lengths the ATF will go to, to prosecute the seemingly innocent. To stop a hijack lets move it to PM. In the case of Olofson, If you care to piece all the story's together with me, we can discuss it further there.
http://www.gunowners.com/Olofson-Petition-for-Certiorari.pdf
http://www.firearmscoalition.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=192&Itemid=37
The problem with the two situations is that they're apples and oranges.
Ammunition can be bought online with no ID check in Texas, or basically anywhere in the US or over the counter same same. While the "malfunctioning black gun" was borderline fuzzy on the legal/illegal side, the sale of ammunition in Texas is not.
So how does the BATF connect "illegal sales of ammunition to the cartels" to over the counter sales? They can't, and I do not see any correlation to selling to a cartel member or a legal ammunition buyer. In Texas, somehow unfortunately, they're one and the same. It's what that person does with the ammunition after the buy that needs to be questioned and investigated. This will end up being Ex post facto law. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law).
RB,
I agree with you. I do not think the ATF will try for a prosecution for the "ammo to cartels". Its a weak argument and hard to prove to a jury. Unless, sadly there is some real solid evidence, such as a video or audio recording of "Hi, I am a part of the Cartel looking for ammo for my friends. I will bring the ammo to Mexico, are you okay with that?"
The only reason I put it that way is because when Bloomburg did his "sting" in AZ at the gun shows. He said people were selling guns to felons with no NICS check, or 4473. I did not believe it for a second, until I saw the videos. There are some idiots out there that are unfortunately proving the anti-gun folks points true.
I have a feeling it will be about the alleged gun sale to a undercover felon. If that person was a felon or not, or if it was a undercover agent pretending to be a felon would be more interesting. The habit of the ATF paying off real felons for their dirty work seems like regular business for them.
Like the Bloomburg videos though, which could possibly be the case here, you have real down to earth Americans just trying to do the right thing by selling someone a gun because they believe it to be their right no matter what. Either way, even though they believe it is the right thing, its still a crime to sell to a felon. These dealers know when they are breaking the law, and the ATF is there waiting for them to do it. Hopefully this turns out not to be the case, but I would not be surprised if that's what surfaces.
Good post. We're, as usual, not privvy to the details of the case. I suppose we'll know more as the case proceeds.
Hopefully these LACs weren't doing anything wrong.
The Reaper
08-27-2012, 17:16
The only reason I put it that way is because when Bloomburg did his "sting" in AZ at the gun shows. He said people were selling guns to felons with no NICS check, or 4473. I did not believe it for a second, until I saw the videos. There are some idiots out there that are unfortunately proving the anti-gun folks points true.
There is no requirement for a 4473 on a face to face personal sale if the state(s) they are in permit it.
I can carry a rifle to a gun show, or around town for that matter, and legally sell it to anyone who is an adult and I do not know to be otherwise prohibited.
Is there a published list of felons for public reference? I think the criminal is the felon trying to purchase the weapon illegally.
If you are holding an FFL and are selling guns off the books with no 4473s, you will get caught and have to pay the price.
I suspect Bloomberg's idiots were doing the former and claiming personal sales were dealers.
TR
There is no requirement for a 4473 on a face to face personal sale if the state(s) they are in permit it.
I can carry a rifle to a gun show, or around town for that matter, and legally sell it to anyone who is an adult and I do not know to be otherwise prohibited.
Is there a published list of felons for public reference? I think the criminal is the felon trying to purchase the weapon illegally.
If you are holding an FFL and are selling guns off the books with no 4473s, you will get caught and have to pay the price.
I suspect Bloomberg's idiots were doing the former and claiming personal sales were dealers.
TR
TR,
I agree with you 100%. What I stated was a little too vague in interpretation. I also believe you do know exactly what you are talking about. I will just state that I am adding more and elaborating to the conversation. I do not want you to think I am saying you are wrong in any way. What you are discussing with states varies greatly from state to state. Then with federal law above that, it gets far more complex. You bring up a great point about the selling to a felon issue. Looking at the ATF interpretations of the GCA. :
Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
This supports that you cannot assume to know if a person is a felon or not. Which is very telling as well to what the ATF may be doing to claim that a dealer has sold to a felon. They must prove the dealer knew the person was a felon. I am not a lawyer nor providing legal advice, but according to the GCA and the ATF's own interpretation, that appears to be what the ATF believes. I would like to know if it is legal to pretend to be a felon and then prosecute someone for selling to a felon. If that is the case, then they must use real felons. Or maybe it is a conviction pointed at "They intended to sell to a felon." That is starting to get into the thought police realm, but the ATF has won cases of constructive intent, so that could be possible too.
In example of the Bloomburg sting, it was cops, "pretending to be felons". If they used genuine felons at any time, I am unaware of it. Bloomburg, was correct in the person selling the undercover cops firearms, with them telling the dealer they were from another state, and "wont pass the check because I am a felon" are breaking the law. Clearly, Bloomburg was breaking the law too.
I am saying that in order for this to be the case, it must be someone caught on camera/audio being told the person is a felon and doing the transaction anyway. Which as we agree is still a crime.
Back to Bloomburgs case, the videos, if they were cleverly edited or 100% truthful, show what is assumed to be dealers at a gun show selling the guns to the undercover cops, after the cops on video stated that they are out of state and felons. To get more technical about that, assuming they are in fact dealers, they cannot be "private sales". The reason they cannot be private sellers is because if a non- licensee set up a table at a gun show and sold dozens of firearms in a day, according to the ATF, they would be in the conduct of business of selling firearms. Which is a crime without a FFL.
One last thing, which I have failed to find the legal reference to, but will keep looking, long guns and shotguns are controlled differently than handguns in most states as well as federally. Generally states do not care if you sell a long gun in person, but a handgun is a completely different matter in various states and also on a federal level. The NFA was meant to originally cover handguns as well but was dropped at the last moment, if my memory of the history is correct.
Badger52
08-28-2012, 12:46
The NFA was meant to originally cover handguns as well but was dropped at the last moment, if my memory of the history is correct.MGs, & sawed-off rifles/shotguns - and not even the MGs if Miller had shown up in court to win the appeal the judge was prepared to allow. The Revenuers quickly realized the winning hand had folded w/o looking at their cards; after that they get to define what is/isn't illegal, even after the fact in case they missed something. And they get more initials later.
This ex post facto biz is chilling (and should be). Pretty much old news that the ATF does a pile-on first, then looks to see what stuck. A core indicator of a free people is the right to own - and exchange - private property. I don't need to see someone's DL to sell them a car out of my driveway. I would before a test-drive but, ultimately, no reasonable way I can know if the guy's operating on an occupational because he's had 3x DUI (yeah, it happens).
The Reaper
08-28-2012, 17:46
The point I would make WRT the original post, was that the BATFE (and the Executive Branch) would like for people to THINK that selling ammunition, magazines, and guns to individuals without paperwork should be illegal.
It will be interesting to see how this one turns out.
TR
The point I would make WRT the original post, was that the BATFE (and the Executive Branch) would like for people to THINK that selling ammunition, magazines, and guns to individuals without paperwork should be illegal.
It will be interesting to see how this one turns out.
TR
On the note of paper work
The charges: Helter is charged with offering to sell two rifles he kept in a safe in his office in December 2011. Kassel is charged with selling two revolvers in a deal with another employee, Dennis Jarstad, in June 2012 and selling a revolver in July 2012 — both from his car in the parking lot. Jarstad, 59, another store vendor, pleaded guilty last week to selling guns without a license in a deal that dropped charges of conspiracy and selling guns to convicted felons.
August 3, 2012 - Owner of Naples military shop, 2 employees, accused of unlawfully selling guns (http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/aug/03/owner-military-shop-2-employees-accused-unlawfully/?banner=1)
March 31, 2013 - Homer Helter returns to operating store, veterans call him 'hero of Naples' (http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/mar/31/homer-helter-returns-to-operating-store-veterans/)
May 17 2013 - Homer Helter's guns back home at his store after released by ATF (http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/may/17/homer-helter-guns-back-home-antique-mall-court-US/)
ddoering
05-19-2013, 15:14
I bet he gets audited by the IRS next. The Feds using intimidation to prove a point......
I bet he gets audited by the IRS next. The Feds using intimidation to prove a point......
And the court system.