View Full Version : Camp Mackall
The Reaper
08-14-2012, 16:24
Camp Mackall pic, or more appropriately, the Rowe Training Facility and vicinity.
Only a few of the "old" buildings left, most in the SFAS cadre area, the PX, TMC, gym, etc.
You really old guys would find nothing left there that you remember, other than the roads and the airfield. :D
TR
Needs a water buffalo with a brass plaque dedicating it to SFTG on display out in front of the HQs building. ;)
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Where's the tricycle hanging from the tree?
longrange1947
08-14-2012, 17:00
I was out there last year and got lost. Luckily I was with a guy that knew where we were going. The place is absolutely unrecognizable now. :D
I was out there last year...The place is absolutely unrecognizable now. :D
Why? What the hell did you do to it now? :rolleyes: :D
longrange1947
08-14-2012, 17:05
Thanks Richard, nice "redact". :munchin :D
Why? What the hell did you do to it now? :rolleyes: :D
Too funny!
To get a sense of history the lower, longer section in the picture running left to right was the old rail road recieving point for the camp.
If you go up to the old post area of Ft Bragg you'll see all the single story white buildings east of the brick buildings. Same set up in WW II.
In 1974 all the original buildings were long gone but the pavement and cement pads remained. The GP medium tents with wood frames that we stayed in were set up on the cement pads to the left of the Up/Down road - the section to the right was used to land choppers.
Still a number of coal bins for the old wood barracks scattered through the woods.
Here's a map of Camp Mackall in WW2 when it was home for Airborne Command and the 17th Airborne Division.
The small square area numbered 1 was the home of the 508th PIR.
The base was home to as many as 2,640 officers and 27,000 enlisted men.
Sure was a different place in SFTG but like Pete said - roads, pads, coal bins, and drainage pipe systems were still to be found throughout the area.
Richard :munchin
I was out there last year and got lost. Luckily I was with a guy that knew where we were going. The place is absolutely unrecognizable now. :D
We should get a good Military modeler to make a Model of the old CMK. Or several models covering the major changes.
mark46th
08-15-2012, 18:40
I'd like to find the tree I was frozen to that cold February night everybody quit...
mojaveman
08-15-2012, 18:51
We should get a good military modeler to make a model of the old CMK, or several models covering the major changes.
Complete with toy soldiers melting in the summertime. I went through Phase I in July and it was hell.
I'd like to find the tree I was frozen to that cold February night everybody quit...
Not 'everybody', Mark, but a huge percentage of those of us left, that's for sure. I think it took six months for my @$$ to unfreeze from the jungle ruck I was sitting on to keep it out of that swamp the cadre put us in for our RONs during those cold, windy, sleeting nights.
Richard :munchin
mark46th
08-16-2012, 16:12
I should have said, "A large percentage quit..." ;)
Dozer523
08-17-2012, 13:32
Wasn't there a creek (about 10 feet across and 4-5 feet deep)?
I seem to remember it not to far from the billets (to the south) and the enterance to the drainage tunnels we had to crawl through (tothe NE).
I think I remember a nice hot day in July when we were told to build and cross one-rope bridges. Then do it again. And again. Faster. And again. You-call-that-fast? Again.
Then we started bouncing and Lousting the rope when the guy crossing got to the mid-point. like riding a rodeo bull in a pool. There was nothing you could do but go up and down (splash). Up, gulp air and splash! Repeat. (We were snap-linked to the rope.)
Maybe we did that in SERE.
mark46th
08-17-2012, 15:31
Dozer- Do you mean Drowning Creek?
Pete, thank you - your description matched my memory from '72. I do seem to recall two actual buildings besides the GPs & storage containers/sheds - a CQ building & staff quarters just S of the rows of tents, and one medium-size classroom, about where T-3470 is in that picture (but smaller). There may have been others, but if I didn't have anything to do with 'em, they probably have slipped away..;) The one feature in that picture that immediately oriented me was the bend in the road, top center- for some reason, that stuck in my mind.:cool:
A PX at Camp MacKall - who'd a thunk it?
Hartley
The Reaper
08-17-2012, 19:11
A PX at Camp MacKall - who'd a thunk it?
Hartley
Been there for years. The cadre decide when it is open, which, if any students can visit, and what they can purchase.
TR
Yeah, TR, I can understand why it happened.. but it's still a bit like when I went back and visited my Dad's ski cabin in Vermont and discovering the new owners had put in indoor plumbing...just not the same any more..:D
Hartley
Understand that the picture is "upside down" and taken looking approximately 230ish degrees.
The PT sawdust pit was approximately where T-3460 is with the "front" gate just above it. The main "road" went straight through the compound and out the back. For some reason the back gate was seldom open even though just about everyone I knew always came that way and had to make the hard left and then circle around the top of the compound coming in the front gate.
Looking at the picture on the "north" side of the road about 1/3 of the way in from the front gate was the tar paper shack that was the Head Shed - and maybe one other shack - not sure - my view of the head shed was usually from the front leaning rest - in the dark - watching the the quiters getting on the carry all at 0600.
The "south" side had something like three shacks - may one more - that was weapons, medic and commo - where we drew equipment. They were like "left" of the head shed and more centered in the compound. They were also not right on the road but more in line with the bottom of the PT pit.
The largest tar paper shack was the classroom and it was "south" - in the picture - of the PT pit - and a little lower than the support shacks. The GP Mediums on wood frames were on line took up the "western" 2/3's of the compound almost in line with the classroom.
The only things "north" of the head shed were pine trees, the ASP CONEX in the upper left corner - which had a student guard posted - and the tower in the upper right.
The bathroom/showers were bottom left in the compound.
A second classroom shack was added along with the million dollar toilet sometime after 1974 - then a few more buildings popped up. But by 1988 there were tons of small metal buildings up everywhere.
And we all know what it looks like now.
Understand that the picture is "upside down" and taken looking approximately 230ish degrees.
I noticed that from the git go although I guesstimated closer to 200 degrees.
Who recalls the spatial reasoning, observation, and orientation portion of the SF Aptitude Battery test we took back when which was in the sub-test with the large picture and four smaller ones in which you had to locate the points from which those smaller pics had been taken. :D
Do they still do that? :confused:
Richard :munchin
True Richard.
Most viewing this thread would have put the picture - and after reading a bit - the old post map you posted together and seen where the runway was - then be able to orientate themselves.
Just trying to help those who were never there.
I do remember the spatial reasoning, observation, and orientation portion of the SF Aptitude Battery test, I hadn't ever taken test like that before or since. :D
ZonieDiver
08-18-2012, 10:37
I noticed that from the git go although I guesstimated closer to 200 degrees.
Who recalls the spatial reasoning, observation, and orientation portion of the SF Aptitude Battery test we took back when which was in the sub-test with the large picture and four smaller ones in which you had to locate the points from which those smaller pics had been taken. :D
Do they still do that? :confused:
Richard :munchin
It was funny to see guys twisting their heads from one side to the other as they took that portion of the test. (Not that I did!)
That was the most exhausting battery of tests I've ever taken. I had NO idea how I'd done on it when I finished. The portion where you listened to a taped scenario, and then answered questions with options from which to choose was stressful as well.
The score I got always raised eyebrows, but I test well, which was killer for me because I scored very well on the RMIC test, but could not get far with the whole alphabet in code when I got to IMC in 05B.
I, too, often wonder if they give that test anymore, or when they stopped..
Google maps still has a much older satellite image of Mackall. Amazing to see how much of a difference there is to the point where it is almost unrecognizable.
BMT (RIP)
08-18-2012, 11:47
I was there only once in '64 and the airstrip was clay.
LZ/DZ classes. We even got a 'Bou for jumps.
BMT
I was there only once in '64 and the airstrip was clay.
Where was the clay strip at Mackall? :confused: Oh - Luzon DZ to the South on the Google sat view - we never used it.
Those concrete runways at Mackall were poured in WW2 and are still there. We jumped on the airfield.
There were clay strips at all the DZs on Bragg we used to use.
Richard :munchin
BMT (RIP)
08-18-2012, 11:52
What was the last question?
BMT
What was the last question?
BMT
Man, I don't even remember taking any hard tests. The only test I remember taking was at the enlistment center in Minn, MN.
Don't remember much of that either - except for one question that was burned into my brain like with a hot poker - "Would you rather hunt lions in Africa or read a book?" Well, duh, what kind of stupid question was that?
Well, then there was the Swim Test taken during a break while at Jump School - but that was even a break.
I thought the SF Aptitude Battery test was a blue-star sapphire ringed hand upside the head and a #10 jump boot in the ass. I'm sure there were some choice words in there, but all I heard was the bells of St. Mere Eglise a ringing.
What was the last question?
Are you referring to the old quiz that tells you to read all the questions before answering anything and then the last statement on the back of the page tells you not to answer anything, just put your name on the paper and turn it in? :D
Richard :munchin
BMT (RIP)
08-18-2012, 14:10
NO! :D
BMT
longrange1947
08-18-2012, 20:21
I noticed that from the git go although I guesstimated closer to 200 degrees.
Who recalls the spatial reasoning, observation, and orientation portion of the SF Aptitude Battery test we took back when which was in the sub-test with the large picture and four smaller ones in which you had to locate the points from which those smaller pics had been taken. :D
Do they still do that? :confused:
Richard :munchin
I remember all those dam tests. Took us forever to finish them at Ord. Did not help that they were grading them and booting as you failed one. Of course they would walk up behind one to notify another just to see how you would react.
The spatial I am thinking of was a large photo with a bunch of little ones and you had to say where on the big photo the little ones were take. Had to take that one for chopper school as well. The one I hated was the one that had a bunch of answers you had to rate as from best to worst, but after listening to a battle scenario on a tape. Then there was the dit doh test, crap I can't remember them all. It was a long night while I was in Infantry AIT.
Thanks Richard for bringing up that night's memories, UGH! :D
Edit - Oh yeah, they stopped them some time ago.
ZonieDiver
08-19-2012, 05:53
The one I hated was the one that had a bunch of answers you had to rate as from best to worst, but after listening to a battle scenario on a tape.
I loved that part, too. I remember part of one question, which had to do with getting a resistance figure out of some African hellhole. The taped explanation was at least 5 minutes long. Then there were the choices: "If you take the river route, there is a 90% chance of escaping safely, but a 50% chance that you'll get him out on time" - and so on.
I took it in daylight hours, out of Reception Station at Ft. Lewis with two other guys. We all passed, I guess, because they didn't remove anyone.
Edit - Oh yeah, they stopped them some time ago.
So, those of us who DID take it (we few, we proud few) were part of the "Last Hard Test"?:D
I was exhausted after taking that sub-test where the scenarios were presented along with a list of 25-30 things to do or be used which you then had to rank order as to how you would choose to do/use them.
It was one of the few tests I've taken in my lifetime in which I came out not knowing how I had done or even having an inkling of whether I had any chance of passing or not.
Richard :munchin
x SF med
08-19-2012, 10:19
Point graders on the old Land Nav course.... "Yup, move out..." being the only answer they would give to any question on the course.... unless you got caught on a road... the only thing those guys heard was... "In the truck, get in the damn truck."
nousdefions
02-02-2013, 12:40
Camp Mackall (http://www.thepilot.com/news/2013/jan/30/exploring-history-of-camp-mackall/) has been part of Moore County's history for more than 70 years.
Those years will be explored in two one-hour presentations at 1 and 3:30 p.m. Sunday, Feb. 10, at the Southern Pines Civic Club, located at 105 S. Ashe St. at the corner of East Pennsylvania Avenue in Southern Pines.
Anyone planning on attending?
I am in Southern Pines until the end of February and planned on going.
Chairborne64
02-02-2013, 15:06
Wow!
I can honestly say I recognize nothing except the airfield. That is something as I used to be the B-1-1st SWTG(A) commander and spen a lot of time out there at the 18C base camp.:eek:
jkirkthomas
02-02-2013, 17:12
I took the SF Battery at Ord in '67 when I was at DLI taking Korean and do not recall a single thing about anything on it. During my physical, which took all of 30 seconds, the doc asked how I was feeling, and when I said "Fine," he said "OK, you're good to go." For my PT test, the recruiter just asked "Can you do all this shit?" "Yes, I can." "OK, fine, you passed." When I was processing into SFTG at Bragg I was told, "Your two choices are commo or a medic, take your pick." I gave it about a millisecond of thought and said "Commo." I don't remember my class doing any training at MacKall, but I do remember carrying a 1919A6 with a piece of shroud line for a carry strap. I think the reduced distance nets were usually done out there, but there was some reason why ours weren't. We did them in the woods near SBH.
Then returning after the commo FTX up near Table Rock, my team was riding in the back of a 5/4 as the last truck in the convoy, and just as the other veihicles disappeared over a hill, our engine blew and we were left by the side of the road. No one noticed we weren't there and they didn't come back for us. Finding a phone and calling Bragg, we were told to " break up into groups of two or three and hitchhike back." I guess that was another lesson in "improvise, make do with whatever you have, but get it done." First time I've thought about that in decades.
longrange1947
02-02-2013, 19:46
jkirk, did you have "squeaky Moore" as a Commo instructor? Reduced distance was held behind the commo classroom area if we were in the same class. :)
Noah Werka
02-02-2013, 20:07
I'd like to find the tree I was frozen to that cold February night everybody quit...
If it was that cold February night in 1969, so would I. That was the first time ever a SF suspended training due to weather. I was there. It was cold. They set up a GP tent in the middle of MacKall, pulled everybody in, get inside, take their boots off, and snuggle up. One hell of a winter.
Noah W
Here is my circa 1979 Mackall Special. It you look very closely you can see a short guy with a German Shepherd named Kaiser. The dog is biting another short guy wearing a "leg hat" on the butt. That would be me. There are a lot more buildings than are shown on the map. They are all plywood and tarpaper, except one. Concertina wire around the buildings. That's about it. Went back in '81 on my demo FTX while cross training. Pretty much more of the same. Went back in '85 for SERE school. It had built up considerably, compared to how it was. Several cinder block buildings. But I've got to say, nothing like that. Times have sure changed!
jkirkthomas
02-02-2013, 20:56
longrange1947 - "squeeky Moore" doesn't ring a bell, but then there are a lot of people I've forgotten over the years. I was the class leader of my commo class, and I only remember a few names of the folks who were there. I do remember that we had several guys in the class who either had flunked out or for some reason were kicked out of 300F1. There was a Lt. Ballentine on the committee at the time, and when we finished Phase II I remember SFC Villarosa with a big grin on his face when he showed us his orders for 5th Gp. That was in Nov of '67.
If we were in the same classs, you might remember an incident during a break one day. One of the guys was playing with his knife and managed to sever the artery in his wrist. Blood spurted all over and two guys grabbed him, applied pressure to stop the bleeding, and walked him down the hill to the nearest TMC.
Kirk
longrange1947
02-02-2013, 21:55
Nope, I didn't start commo until March of 68 I think. Was curious cause I took the SF tests at Ord as you did in 67 but not until Aug I think. Same problem CRS now. :D
Well, they're probably close to breaking ground on a new latrine for the Daisies.
Wonder what they'll name it? The "Col. Martha Maggie Ray" Powder Room?
Nah. She'd claw her way out of the ground and batter whoever was in charge for showing disrespect to the Brotherhood.
Back in her day, women knew how best to be part of the process.
Back in her day, women knew how best to be part of the process.
Well, I'd agree with you, except it sounds like even back in her day, she was an anomaly, a rare woman. ;)
A photo from WWII:
24171
Layout:
24172
Snaquebite
02-03-2013, 19:06
http://www.thepilot.com/news/2013/jan/30/exploring-history-of-camp-mackall/