View Full Version : Homeland Security to Border Patrol: Run and Hide
Latest training tells Border Patrol to run and hide from "active shooter."
They don't really need guns, do they now?
Border Patrol agents in Arizona are blasting their bosses for telling them, along with all other Department of Homeland Security employees, to run and hide if they encounter an "active shooter."
It's one thing to tell civilian employees to cower under a desk if a gunman starts spraying fire in a confined area, say members of Tucson Local 2544/National Border Patrol Council, but to give armed law enforcement professionals the same advice is downright insulting. The instructions from DHS come in the form of pamphlets and a mandatory computer tutorial.
“We are now taught in an ‘Active Shooter’ course that if we encounter a shooter in a public place we are to ‘run away’ and ‘hide’" union leader Brandon Judd wrote on the website of 3,300-member union local. “If we are cornered by such a shooter we are to (only as a last resort) become ‘aggressive’ and ‘throw things’ at him or her. We are then advised to ‘call law enforcement’ and wait for their arrival (presumably, while more innocent victims are slaughtered)."
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/29/border-patrol-union-claims-homeland-security-safety-course-promotes/?test=latestnews#ixzz1zFD4IUwo
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/29/border-patrol-union-claims-homeland-security-safety-course-promotes/?test=latestnews
22446
Badger52
07-05-2012, 12:13
The parent company probably didn't intend that general version of their active-shooter guidelines to get to people who're normally armed. Maybe they should've shared their "If you see something, say something" literature with more folks in the ATF....
The essence of that TP-worthy publication is as described though. Alot of folks who work on military bases are even more irritated than the armed elite since, as Ft Hood showed, "when seconds count the police are minutes away." * If they obeyed the regs their legally owned & carried personal handgun is cleared & locked in the vehicle while they're at work, waiting for the next white-robed purveyor of "workplace violence."
(I've wondered how far Hasan would've gotten in an IDF SRC...)
* not a disparaging of the LE community, it just is what it is.
Latest training tells Border Patrol to run and hide from "active shooter."
They don't really need guns, do they now?
“We are now taught in an ‘Active Shooter’ course that if we encounter a shooter in a public place we are to ‘run away’ and ‘hide’" union leader Brandon Judd wrote on the website of 3,300-member union local. “If we are cornered by such a shooter we are to (only as a last resort) become ‘aggressive’ and ‘throw things’ at him or her. We are then advised to ‘call law enforcement’ and wait for their arrival (presumably, while more innocent victims are slaughtered)."22446
Am a civilian, so pardon my ignorance here....but WHY would they issue this decree in an, "Active Shooter" course?
Makes zero sense to me.:confused:
Are they, (DHS) just stupid?:rolleyes::mad:
Holly
Am a civilian, so pardon my ignorance here....but WHY would they issue this decree in an, "Active Shooter" course?
Makes zero sense to me.:confused:
Are they, (DHS) just stupid?
Yes.
This forum requires that you wait 90 seconds between posts. Please try again in 39 parsecs. - Bah!
greenberetTFS
07-05-2012, 13:15
It's absolutely frightening how f**ked up that group is and we owe it all to Janet's brillant leadership.....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Big Teddy :munchin
It's absolutely frightening how f**ked up that group is and we owe it all to Janet's brillant leadership...
Big Teddy :munchin
Wonder if She has ever even been down to the border? (Taking bets here...)
Wow...just plain wow. What a total and complete disreguard for American lives.:(
Amazing....
Holly
Wonder if She has ever even been down to the border? (Taking bets here...)
Wow...just plain wow.
Oh, I think Big Sis...never mind.
Wake me when this nightmare is over.
Oh, I think Big Sis...never mind.
Wake me when this nightmare is over.
U.S. Constitution:
Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified* 12/15/1791:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
*(The first ten amendments, commonly known as a group as the Bill of Rights, were all ratified at once. The amendments were proposed on September 25, 1789.))
Seems a very, very slippery slope to me...to circumvent Right to Bear Arms?:confused:
Who the f*ck to these people think they are? Am confused again.:rolleyes:
Team Sergeant
07-05-2012, 14:58
I remember my training for this sort of active shooter situation: Run to where they are and kill them.
Same advice I'd give to everyone 'cept little kids.
If you're an "adult" and you "run and hide" expect that bullet to the back of the head when you lose the hide and seek game.
TS
But...even as a non professionally trained person, (just an SF hanger on) who reads and heeds...I KNOW to go f*ckin attack with whatever is available to me, if me or my sis was threatened.:(
And we are talking about the Boarders of Our United States of America.:rolleyes:
Again...WHY would this training be imposed? :confused::mad:
AH! Just got it..........Agenda!!!
Holly
Wake me when this nightmare is over.
Sure thing, Rip.
Sure thing, Rip.
RIP - :D - let's hope not for some time :D at least don't kill me off until after the November election!
Still got some fight in me - and notwithstanding the notorious activity of certain dead voter rolls - I'm ABBO and I'm lawfully registered to vote and my ID is GTG ! :D
RIP - :D - let's hope not for some time :D at least don't kill me off until after the November election!
Still got some fight in me - and notwithstanding the notorious activity of certain dead voter rolls - I'm ABBO and I'm lawfully registered to vote and my ID is GTG ! :D
LOL...NOOOOO Rip as in Rip Van Winkle! I didn't type RIP. :D
LOL...NOOOOO Rip as in Rip Van Winkle! I didn't type RIP. :D
LOL...I do remember good ole Rip.
Sometimes, it does seem like this administration has been in place for twenty years...now, if only another George Washington ascends to office like when Rip woke up - this nap just might have been worth it.
We've gone from "...I cannot tell a lie..." to "..most everything I say is a lie..."
As much as I can't stand the TSA, I think the BP should share some responsibility in the nonsense taking place. IS-907 is a civilian program, so whoever put this training into place for sworn BP agents is equally stupid.
Lets also not overlook the fact that someone at the Border Patrol though that giving armed, sworn agents active shooter response training via a computer was a good idea.
Derek
LOL...I do remember good ole Rip.
:D
Hopefully we'll all wake up in November to a new POTUS.
:D
Hopefully we'll all wake up in November to a new POTUS.
From your lips...;)
Am a civilian, so pardon my ignorance here....but WHY would they issue this decree in an, "Active Shooter" course?
Makes zero sense to me.:confused:
Are they, (DHS) just stupid?:rolleyes::mad:
Holly
I don't think they are as concerned with the "Active Shooter" as they are with the weapon(s) that might be used in this situation. Afterall thousands of weapons just went south of the border. If you ask me, they are just trying to minimize anymore deaths/shootings related to Fast and Furious.
Obviously it is not an attempt to save victims lives, it is an attempt to allow the "Active Shooter" to get away, with the weapon. Just my take on it, though.
GratefulCitizen
07-05-2012, 22:45
The message to criminals is loud and clear:
Carry a gun, use it.
Badger52
07-06-2012, 05:28
Take a re-look at the pamphlet in the opening post. As I said, this stuff was intended to get to the general sheep-like workforce in the Guv, and has been widely distributed in one kind or another across that demographic. It wasn't intended originally for sworn LE; they're the folks that you-the-cowering are supposed to report to (if you survive).
This training has about as much practical value as the CBT for cowering in the back of a hijacked aircraft, while running the equivalent of a rah-rah team building exercise and an MDMP (COA3: Do nothing) while Hasahmed is slitting throats. If you train folks to be corpses you'd better budget for the bags.
It's worth noting that there was really only 1 serious attempt at taking out the VA Tech shooter prior to LE arrival. A young AF ROTC cadet attempted to simply rush the shooter and survivors report he damn near got there, but at least he tried. The shooter went back around to those cowering and put many 2nd rounds into people under their desks for good measure. Had that young man been armed...
The lesson that should remain is not that DHS leadership is paddling fast but from one side of the canoe, it's that trying to apply calm measured thought in a dynamic fast-moving situation like suddenly being in the office with someone who's commenced to murdering people with a gun is a non-starter.
See Team Sergeant's sigline for further guidance.
Take a re-look at the pamphlet in the opening post. As I said, this stuff was intended to get to the general sheep-like workforce in the Guv, and has been widely distributed in one kind or another across that demographic. It wasn't intended originally for sworn LE; they're the folks that you-the-cowering are supposed to report to (if you survive).
This training has about as much practical value as the CBT for cowering in the back of a hijacked aircraft, while running the equivalent of a rah-rah team building exercise and an MDMP (COA3: Do nothing) while Hasahmed is slitting throats. If you train folks to be corpses you'd better budget for the bags.
It's worth noting that there was really only 1 serious attempt at taking out the VA Tech shooter prior to LE arrival. A young AF ROTC cadet attempted to simply rush the shooter and survivors report he damn near got there, but at least he tried. The shooter went back around to those cowering and put many 2nd rounds into people under their desks for good measure. Had that young man been armed...
The lesson that should remain is not that DHS leadership is paddling fast but from one side of the canoe, it's that trying to apply calm measured thought in a dynamic fast-moving situation like suddenly being in the office with someone who's commenced to murdering people with a gun is a non-starter.
See Team Sergeant's sigline for further guidance.
I don't know...the guys that seem to be pissed, and those having to take the computer course are the gun toting BP Agents, not your unarmmed accountants and admin assistants. They (agents) are the ones mentioned in the opening of the article.
Badger52
07-06-2012, 06:58
I don't know...the guys that seem to be pissed, and those having to take the computer course are the gun toting BP Agents, not your unarmmed accountants and admin assistants. They (agents) are the ones mentioned in the opening of the article.Agree, I'd be PO'd too. Not that DHS leadership would be ignorant of what their "employees" actually do...
This one, in a whole litany of FEMA courses, should no more be targeted to the sworn element of BP than I should have to, after 40+ yrs of total service, take the Army "Foundation" course to learn the difference between a PV2 and a 3-star. The difference is that my command has a 3-star who found out about the lunacy, called it out for what it was, and rescinded it. I don't think Big Sis is so prone to do the same.
Some NIMS-kull training developer just probably stuck it on the list and everyone gets painted with the same brush - all victims are equal. It's stupid, DHS screwed the pooch, the union will sort it out because the Admin has been so kind to the folks that helped get them in power.
I can't wait for the outcry when the BP Agent does his/her job, downs an active shooter and is reprimanded. Is this what it is coming to?
I can't wait for the outcry when the BP Agent does his/her job, downs an active shooter and is reprimanded. Is this what it is coming to?
Good point; that will be interesting to watch.
I don't know...the guys that seem to be pissed, and those having to take the computer course are the gun toting BP Agents, not your unarmmed accountants and admin assistants. They (agents) are the ones mentioned in the opening of the article.
Thats why I think it had to be a management/administration issue at DHS and BP for this course to be taken. Maybe Bordercop can jump on and fill us in.
Derek
I can't wait for the outcry when the BP Agent does his/her job, downs an active shooter and is reprimanded. Is this what it is coming to?
Like the lifeguard recently fired for saving a drowning swimmer out of his zone?
greenberetTFS
07-06-2012, 10:13
This had to be approved at the highest level and that's where Janet comes in......:(
This has her prints all over it.........:eek:
Big Teddy :munchin
Team Sergeant
07-06-2012, 10:17
This is a national issue and in my opinion has gone septic. This all boils down to not wanting to take responsibility for one actions. Sure run and hide and maybe, just maybe, it will go away. Let's not take any responsibility for our own individual actions.
Whatever happened to the buck stops here?
Has honor, pride, fortitude & integrity died?
Have we arrived at a point where the men of the United States balls are actually shrinking?
When I joined the Army and got to the 82nd Airborne this was the poster I remember and how I feel about all those that would run and hide from the bad-men.......
This poster and it's quote shaped my military career and the way I live my life. Few will ever draw a line in the sand, most prefer to bury their heads in it.
TS
Dec. 23, 1944 - "Battle of the Bulge" - An entire U.S. armored division was retreating from the Germans in the Ardennes forest when a sergeant in a tank destroyer spotted an American digging a foxhole. The GI, PFC Martin, 325th Glider Infantry Regiment, looked up and asked, "Are you looking for a safe place?" "Yeah" answered the tanker. "Well, buddy," he drawled, "just pull your vehicle behind me...
I'm the 82nd Airborne, and this is as far as the bastards are going."
Bordercop
07-06-2012, 11:27
I took this course after reading about it here.
I'm not going to get into the politics of it, but suffice it to say I, and 99.9% of the agents I work with, are not going to run and hide if an active shooting is happening. We'll be heading towards the gunfire and I expect the idiot who starts shooting in an office full of Border Patrol Agents will have entrance wounds front, back and on both sides.
Border Patrol agents take protecting the public very seriously and would/will do whatever is necessary to protect the public and themselves if bullets start flying.
I complained to the bosses regarding the idiocy of having armed law enforcement agents being required to take this training and was told it's being looked into...yeah right.
Obviously it is not an attempt to save victims lives, it is an attempt to allow the "Active Shooter" to get away, with the weapon. Just my take on it, though.
So, am curious and concerned....what message this really sends to Our BP Agents?
Do they loose morale and think the American Public doesn't give a sh*t that Our Big O government is sending them out on patrol, with their hands tied behind their backs?:(
Scary. Just scary if you think about it...those charged with protecting us...with handcuffs on instead of guns in their well-trained hands. Thank you Big O and your STUPIDITY!:mad:
Holly:munchin
So, am curious and concerned....what message this really sends to Our BP Agents?
Do they loose morale and think the American Public doesn't give a sh*t that Our Big O government is sending them out on patrol, with their hands tied behind their backs?:(
Scary. Just scary if you think about it...those charged with protecting us...with handcuffs on instead of guns in their well-trained hands. Thank you Big O and your STUPIDITY!:mad:
Holly:munchin
I think it is pretty much like Bordercop explained it. They have a duty to protect citizens that they take very seriously. They will act rightously, justly, and smile ear to ear in front of the disciplinary review board should it come to that. I don't wish for an LEO to be in that situation, as LE work is inherently dangerous, but I am certain many have made up their minds the day they put the badge on, and they will use deadly force where applicable.
Besides, the training is for an "Active Shooter," and not "Active ShooterS" (plural), how can an LEO be certain there isn't more than one until the shooting is over? ;)