View Full Version : I need the Blade Masters' help
Kyobanim
10-11-2004, 18:56
I was told tonight that one of the feats of control, (some would say stupidity) I have to do at my 3d dan test next year is to do a flying side kick to an apple balanced on the edge of a sword held verticle. It's to show control buy using just enough force in the kick to push the apple through the blade. I need a sharp sword. My sword is made of 440 steel. How do I sharpen this thing to the point oc cutting paper? I'd like to leave with the belt and my foot in one piece if at all possible.
Thanks
Bill Harsey
10-11-2004, 19:41
The answer depends on who added a signature to a document and changed the date on a blade around here some time ago...
Bill Harsey
10-11-2004, 19:46
Oh, Yeah, I forgot to add, send it to me. I'll sharpen it.
The Reaper
10-11-2004, 19:46
The answer depends on who added a signature to a document and changed the date on a blade around here some time ago...
Oooh, As the World Turns. :munchin
Been waiting a while to pull that one, haven't you.
You do realize that he could do/have done much worse?
TR
Ambush Master
10-11-2004, 19:52
Oooh, As the World Turns. :munchin
Been waiting a while to pull that one, haven't you.
You do realize that he could do/have done much worse?
TR
Or as we used to say around the Drop Zone and today in the Industry, "As The Prop Chops" !! :munchin :munchin
Kyobanim
10-11-2004, 20:09
What's everybody talking about? :o
Bill Harsey
10-13-2004, 21:00
What's everybody talking about? :oI have no idea, how'd this thread get sidetracked? That's never happened around here before.
Back to work! Important question, how sharp do you want the blade? 440 is the designation for a class of high, medium and lower carbon chromium stainless, hardenable, steels. The three different classes of 440 are, "440A", "440B" and "440C". The letters stand for the carbon content therefore the potential for hardenability during heat treat. Of the three, 440C has the highest carbon and makes the best blade. Carbon content of steel and heat treat have a great deal to do with how sharp we can get a blade. How to test the edge next.
NousDefionsDoc
10-13-2004, 21:16
I was told tonight that one of the feats of control, (some would say stupidity) I have to do at my 3d dan test next year is to do a flying side kick to an apple balanced on the edge of a sword held verticle. It's to show control buy using just enough force in the kick to push the apple through the blade. I need a sharp sword. My sword is made of 440 steel. How do I sharpen this thing to the point oc cutting paper? I'd like to leave with the belt and my foot in one piece if at all possible.
Thanks
Don't do it. Its insane. But if you must:
If you send your sword to Mr. Harsey for him to sharpen, I would hire Doc T to stand by as well. That AF fighter is the sharpest thing I have ever seen. If you practice this with a Harsey blade, I would wear steel shank boots to start with and even then there's no guarantee.
Kyobanim
10-15-2004, 06:36
Important question, how sharp do you want the blade?
That's a good question. The idea is to push the apple through the sword with a push, not a full on kick, so I don't think surgical sharpness is necessary. Maybe sharp enough to cut paper?
Don't do it. Its insane. But if you must: If you send your sword to Mr. Harsey for him to sharpen, I would hire Doc T to stand by as well. That AF fighter is the sharpest thing I have ever seen. If you practice this with a Harsey blade, I would wear steel shank boots to start with and even then there's no guarantee.
This is the only thing I don't like but I need to do it to progress. 3d dan is better than 2nd for getting students for your school. Go figure. I've seen 4 people do this and none have been injured. Of course all 4 were teenagers not 49yo morons.
Maybe I need to use one of my lower grade swords.
Bill Harsey
10-15-2004, 07:22
Kyobanim, I've watched this demonstration not go as well as it could have. Long time ago had some old school Koreans over as guests for a big tournament. One of the kicking demonstrations they performed was having one guy sitting on the shoulders of another holding out an apple stuck on a short sword blade. The guy doing the kicking did a running jump spinning back kick and blew the apple into two pieces off the end of the sword. As he walked away he left a nice dinner plate sized footprint of blood with each step of his kicking foot. He didn't do anymore demos that day. Edge Geometry next...
Bill Harsey
10-15-2004, 07:55
Edge geometry, the angle at which each side on the blade comes together to meet at the final front of the working edge determines how well any given blade will cut. The strength of the steel is always the determining factor in how thin we can make the edge to cut with least possible resistance without bending or breaking. Another factor is mass because with any edged tool designed for hard strikes and maximum penetration will have to have some weight. The mass of a blade is limited by how fast or for how long the human user can make it work. Mass adds thickness and this causes changes in edge geometry. All the above has to do with sharpening a sword. It is usually a lot more work than a knife blade because to sharpen correctly, you have to remove a lot of steel, with a high degree of precision, along the entire side of a sword blade to maintain a good cutting geometry that cuts well. It is rarely a matter of just a simple sharpening bevel at the front of the edge.
NousDefionsDoc
10-15-2004, 09:19
I'm just kidding you Kyo, go for it! If they can do it, so can you. Who dares wins! Fortune favors the bold! Nothing ventured - nothing gained! Just do it! A stitch in time saves nine! Only the good die young! Tourniquets save lives! :)
That's a good question. The idea is to push the apple through the sword with a push, not a full on kick, so I don't think surgical sharpness is necessary. Maybe sharp enough to cut paper?
Just a thought, Sir: If you touch the sword, you will be injured regardless of the level of sharpness, since you'll have wanted to have it sharp enough for the demonstration.
Wouldn't it in that case be smart to have it as sharp as possible so less force is required, thus minimizing risk of going too far?
Kyobanim
10-15-2004, 12:00
Just a thought, Sir: If you touch the sword, you will be injured regardless of the level of sharpness, since you'll have wanted to have it sharp enough for the demonstration.
Wouldn't it in that case be smart to have it as sharp as possible so less force is required, thus minimizing risk of going too far?
That is correct. The dynamics of the kick are; run, jump, deliver a proper side kick which includes full extension of the leg, tap the enemy apple with the ball of the foot, land, and if needed, pick up the extra piece of foot lying on the floor. The weak link is my lack of consistancy lining up the kick which could lead to becoming part of the population that only has 1.5 feet.
That is correct. The dynamics of the kick are; run, jump, deliver a proper side kick which includes full extension of the leg, tap the enemy apple with the ball of the foot, land, and if needed, pick up the extra piece of foot lying on the floor. The weak link is my lack of consistancy lining up the kick which could lead to becoming part of the population that only has 1.5 feet.
Fully extended tapping... that is impressive.
Good luck, Sir.
Kyo, if you can do it, that's bad ass, but all I can say is: better you than me! :lifter
Kyobanim
10-22-2004, 07:45
Dan, if I can pull this off I might turn religious.
Bill, I think I'm going to take you up on the sword sharpening. I've been practicing with not so sharp blades and it turns out that in order to get the apple through the blade I have to use too much pressure which leads to contact with the blade which turns into a pucker factor that is so high that you couldn't drive a knitting needle in with a 10 pound sledge hammer. That's a little distracting. I'll do it after the first of the year, if that's ok with you.
Bill Harsey
10-22-2004, 07:59
Sounds good. We should be able to come up with a cutting edge that works.