Navy SEAL Commander Advised to ‘Get the Hell Out of the Media’

[XrayJ]

A retired general today assailed the commander of the Navy SEAL raid that killed Osama bin Laden for drawing too much media attention to operations that he argued should be kept under wraps.

Special Operations Commander Adm. Bill McRaven was confronted by retired Lt. Gen. James Vaught, who said he didn’t understand why the recent raids by the Navy SEALs, such as the one to kill Osama bin Laden or to rescue U.S. hostage Jessica Buchanan, were all over the media.

“Since the time when your wonderful team went and drug bin Laden out and got rid of him, and more recently when you went down and rescued the group in Somalia, or wherever the hell they were, they’ve been splashing all of this all over the media,” Vaught, 85, said. “I flat don’t understand that.

“Now back when my special operators extracted Saddam [Hussein] from the hole, we didn’t say one damn word about it,” he continued. “We turned him over to the local commander and told him to claim that his forces drug him out of the hole, and he did so. And we just faded away and kept our mouth shut.

“Now I’m going to tell you, one of these days, if you keep publishing how you do this, the other guy’s going to be there ready for you, and you’re going to fly in and he’s going to shoot down every damn helicopter and kill every one of your SEALs. Now, watch it happen. Mark my words. Get the hell out of the media,” he concluded, as laughter broke out at a meeting of the National Defense Industrial Association in Washington, D.C.



Rest can be read @ ----> http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/02/navy-seal-commander-advised-to-get-the-hell-out-of-the-media/

[scooter]

Someone failed to follow instructions.....

:lifter

That's the SOCOM commander, by the way.

[Roguish Lawyer]

I have assumed that the media attention has been driven by the White House, or more accurately the Obama re-election campaign. POTUS is interviewed extensively in the documentary they allowed to be made concerning the bin Laden raid.

[Roguish Lawyer]

XRayJ, you need to fill out your profile and introduce yourself in the right place as previously instructed. Please do it before you post again.

[kgoerz]

Rest can be read @ ----> http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/02/navy-seal-commander-advised-to-get-the-hell-out-of-the-media/

Sounds like envy to me:D

[XrayJ]

Sounds like envy to me:D

If on topic posts by posters outside of certain cliques aren't welcome, I will more than gladly stand down.

[Snaquebite]

Got a memorandum from Vaught (HQ JTF 1-79) hanging on the wall... Great man IMHO.

[Snaquebite]

If on topic posts by posters outside of certain cliques aren't welcome, I will more than gladly stand down.

XrayJ....to put it simply....follow the instructions you received in email when you signed up to this site...If you lost them or are confused, you may PM me for instructions. Until then DO NOT post again in this forum.

[Guymullins]

I have been meaning to post something about this for a while. We have seen many very good units destroyed by too much media coverage in the past. This only applies to Southern Africa, and I dont mean to preach to you guys in the US, but simply to give our experience for your information. Our 32 Bn, a special; forces semi-pseudo unit which operated almost entirely behind the lines was disbanded when their exploits were endlessly publicised. They were a formidable unconventional fighting force made up of turned terrorists and soldiers from enemy countries. Because of their well publicised effectiveness in later years, they became the focus of attention for disbandment once majority rule came. This was a great loss to our Army and a huge pool of expertise was lost .
The Reconnaissance Regiment also suffered , but in a different way, from too much publicity. When it was a highly secretive unit, it was very effective and the quality of soldier it attracted was very high. After much publicity, the quality of volunteer declined markedly and all the "tough-guy riff-raff" wanted to join and it gained somewhat of a hooligan image. It was also briefly disbanded, but after lots of trimming and cuts, was re-instated as a shadow of its former self.
A very similar fate befell the Rhodesian Selous Scouts. When they were disguised at a Tracker Unit, they operated very effectively as a pseudo unit, turning terrorists and disguising themselves as terrorists and passing on intel so that other units could wipe the enemy out. Once they became subject to media attention, not only did their quality of recruit suffer, for the same reason as mentioned above, but their tactics became known to the enemy and their effectiveness declined. I have been hoping for some time that either the Seals would cease their publicity campaign or that it was a blind for other more secret units operating out of the publics eye.

[Utah Bob]

ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/02/navy-seal-commander-advised-to-get-the-hell-out-of-the-media/)

Special Operations Commander Adm. Bill McRaven was confronted by retired Lt. Gen. James Vaught, who said he didn’t understand why the recent raids by the Navy SEALs, such as the one to kill Osama bin Laden or to rescue U.S. hostage Jessica Buchanan, were all over the media.
:munchin

[Dozer523]

"McRaven jokingly responded that he became a Navy SEAL because his sister was dating a special forces member and because he was infatuated with John Wayne’s movie, “The Green Beret.”

Maybe he's got a cameo in that new movie "staring REAL SeALs"

[Badger52]

FYI collateral thread in Early Bird here (http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36747).

[Richard]

Pretty good discussion on CBS This Morning - interview w/John Miller.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57373115/are-too-many-seal-secrets-being-made-public/?tag=morningFlexGridRight;flexGridModule

Richard :munchin

[Tweeder11]

I caught this in the article...


"the Pentagon is even considering a new special operations command"

Could this be good news for CA, MISO, & SF?

Thanks
Tweeder

[Richard]

I caught this in the article...

"the Pentagon is even considering a new special operations command"

Speshul Feces Command - for those occasions when the s**t REALLY hits the fan! :rolleyes:

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

[Tweeder11]

Yea that is just what we need another layer of command over site, micromanagement and bullshit. .


Definately not desirable, I was more or less alluding to a seperate Unconventional Warfare command where you guys are removed from SOCOM, as I've read on this site. More or less wishful thinking.

Be well,
Tweeder

[greenberetTFS]

Speshul Feces Command - for those occasions when the s**t REALLY hits the fan! :rolleyes:

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

When the s**t REALLY hits the fan then it's a job for..........:lifter

Big Teddy :munchin

[grigori]

I have been meaning to post something about this for a while. We have seen many very good units destroyed by too much media coverage in the past. This only applies to Southern Africa, and I dont mean to preach to you guys in the US, but simply to give our experience for your information. Our 32 Bn, a special; forces semi-pseudo unit which operated almost entirely behind the lines was disbanded when their exploits were endlessly publicised. They were a formidable unconventional fighting force made up of turned terrorists and soldiers from enemy countries. Because of their well publicised effectiveness in later years, they became the focus of attention for disbandment once majority rule came. This was a great loss to our Army and a huge pool of expertise was lost .
The Reconnaissance Regiment also suffered , but in a different way, from too much publicity. When it was a highly secretive unit, it was very effective and the quality of soldier it attracted was very high. After much publicity, the quality of volunteer declined markedly and all the "tough-guy riff-raff" wanted to join and it gained somewhat of a hooligan image. It was also briefly disbanded, but after lots of trimming and cuts, was re-instated as a shadow of its former self.
A very similar fate befell the Rhodesian Selous Scouts. When they were disguised at a Tracker Unit, they operated very effectively as a pseudo unit, turning terrorists and disguising themselves as terrorists and passing on intel so that other units could wipe the enemy out. Once they became subject to media attention, not only did their quality of recruit suffer, for the same reason as mentioned above, but their tactics became known to the enemy and their effectiveness declined. I have been hoping for some time that either the Seals would cease their publicity campaign or that it was a blind for other more secret units operating out of the publics eye.

Is the Recon Regiment the famous Recces unit of the SANDF,I had read a lot of good things about them.

[grigori]

I have a lot of respect for what Lt. Gen. Vaught said ,not many will stand upto a serving USSOCOM chief.The UK MOD on the other hand has always maintained the same stand "We do not comment on Special Forces matters".

[PRB]

The Navy and its specwarnavcom has decided, long ago, that going hollywood with articles and exposure was the way to money and assets to sustain and build the force.
They have always done this. It ain't new, they just have the Cmdr in Chief as their latest cheerleader for his own purposes.
In our society this stuff sells/works. Sadly.

[greenberetTFS]

"Where have all the great SF leaders gone,gone to grave yards every one"...........:(
What we really need is another reincarnated Col. Bank,someone with the experience,and the GUTS to get Special Forces back into Special Forces........:rolleyes: Screw the Navy SEALS,we need to go back to the basics,concern ourselves with what made us who we were at the very beginning.........:o De Opppresso Liber... I realize I'm just an old walrus,quite a bit out of touch with our new mission(?),however I can't help reading these posts that express us as no longer being the Special Forces that we once were,to those I say Bull Shit........:mad:

Big Teddy

[mojaveman]

Doesn't all of the good deed and rescue stuff that's in the news benefit our current administration in this election year? Could it be that they might have something to do with the release of information and media sensation?

[greenberetTFS]

*

[grigori]

"Where have all the great SF leaders gone,gone to grave yards every one"...........:(
What we really need is another reincarnated Col. Bank,someone with the experience,and the GUTS to get Special Forces back into Special Forces........:rolleyes: Screw the Navy SEALS,we need to go back to the basics,concern ourselves with what made us who we were at the very beginning.........:o De Opppresso Liber... I realize I'm just an old walrus,quite a bit out of touch with our new mission(?),however I can't help reading these posts that express us as no longer being the Special Forces that we once were,to those I say Bull Shit........:mad:

Big Teddy

Since the time I began reading about SF/SOF units in the US Military most of the books were written by the SEALs wherever the word Special Forces was mentioned it was always written "US Army Special Forces expertise in Training Foreign troops" the same would go for the media as this is how the role of SF is explained.Nobody mentions that SF are very capable of attacking enemy installations behind enemy lines,capable of Counter-Terrorism,Infil through sea and the list goes on,heck no one even in the media mentions that after 9/11 it was the SF who were first in action in A'stan as far as Special Operations are concerned.

It is sad to see that the media does not understand the true capabilities of SF and people aren't getting the clear picture.

[Guymullins]

Is the Recon Regiment the famous Recces unit of the SANDF,I had read a lot of good things about them.

Yes, there were 5 regiments in the heyday. Down to one now. Of course, we dont really have any enemies anymore. We are pally with everyone, from despotic dictators to model democracies. By the way, the SANDF is the new dispensation. All the good stuff occurred when we were the SADF.

[grigori]

Yes, there were 5 regiments in the heyday. Down to one now. Of course, we dont really have any enemies anymore. We are pally with everyone, from despotic dictators to model democracies. By the way, the SANDF is the new dispensation. All the good stuff occurred when we were the SADF.

Thank you for the information Sir.I also read about their Selection procedure and it was scary enough to read about the details.

[bubblehead]

These folks need to operate similar to the submarine community with respect to the media: "we do not comment on submarine operations."

[The Reaper]

It would appear that the Navy has a different vision of Quiet Professionalism.

Top Gun, here we go....:rolleyes:

TR

[alright4u]

If all the men in the unit/Detachment are all volunteers for that unit, and all had to volunteer to get to that SF code name outfit regardless of service, and; they all clearly know they are not allowed to tell another soul outside their outfit what their mission is and where they go- "Who or what gives any senior commander or even the CIC the authority to jack his jaws about that Detachment?"

I am sorry, but; I agreed to never run my mouth about classified OPS until told I could. Why can't our CIC and senior officers shut mouth just like the NCO's and officer's who do the damn dirty work are expected to do and do?

[Surgicalcric]

It would appear that the Navy has a different vision of Quiet Professionalism...

Different than who Sir?

There are quite a few SF guys who would have us following in the same path. I mean, how many team guys have pics on their face-book page of themselves in theater and/or on operations not only exposing themselves but team mates as well. Guys today are caught up in fame and notoriety that goes with being in Special Operations and less so with living up to their NDAs and protecting their Brothers and the mission.

However since guys in the COC, all the way to the USSOCOM CDR, Congress and the CinC, see nothing wrong with media exposure I suppose there is noone to hold the line.

It is unfortunate for National Security, and the service members whose faces have become part of a "reality show" that politics play a bigger role here than whats right.

Crip

[alright4u]

How darn tough would it be to merely state a unit whose men are trained for missions such as these did the job. I am not at liberty to tell you the unit or units nor their branch or branches of service.

The end.

[Eagle5US]

Merged with the thread of the same title for "Middle East"

[Sarski]

If all the men in the unit/Detachment are all volunteers for that unit, and all had to volunteer to get to that SF code name outfit regardless of service, and; they all clearly know they are not allowed to tell another soul outside their outfit what their mission is and where they go- "Who or what gives any senior commander or even the CIC the authority to jack his jaws about that Detachment?"

I am sorry, but; I agreed to never run my mouth about classified OPS until told I could. Why can't our CIC and senior officers shut mouth just like the NCO's and officer's who do the damn dirty work are expected to do and do?

Yep. Loose lips sink ships.

[Badger52]

Why can't our CIC and senior officers shut mouth just like the NCO's and officer's who do the damn dirty work are expected to do and do?Ego, whether in uniform or Capitol Hill. ("Behold how important I am because I know 'x'.")

That it happens is a simple failure of leadership; pick the level on which to pin that failure as you deem appropriate. Nothing new, and it was happening from the birth of CNN as well. (In Opns at puzzle palace I used to see stuff, get off mids, watch sun come up, crack a brew and see the same stuff on the fledgling Cable News Network... arghh.)

Personally, I always thought the admonition within fora at PS.COM was sufficient:

"OPSEC violators will be hanged." That should be workable for almost any situation.

;)

[Guymullins]

From this side of the Atlantic, the idea of embedding journalists with fighting units was demented. This publicity seeking is an extension of that and one cant really blame the common soldier for thinking that if some publicity is good, then lots must be better.

[Richard]

Every time I read stuff like this, names like Eric Haney and 'Dalton Fury' are dredged up from the depths of my dust-filled memory bin... :mad:

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

[afchic]

Every time I read stuff like this, names like Eric Haney and 'Dalton Fury' are dredged up from the depths of my dust-filled memory bin... :mad:

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

I thought I read somewhere recently that Dalton Fury has a new book coming out very soon. What a douche.

[grigori]

I thought I read somewhere recently that Dalton Fury has a new book coming out very soon. What a douche.

The book released in Dec. 2011.The name of the book is "Black Site",the
character is named as "Kolt Raynor" a former Delta operator.

[Tweeder11]

The book released in Dec. 2011.The name of the book is "Black Site",the
character is named as "Kolt Raynor" a former Delta operator.

But the most important thing to remember is that it's "Not about the money" it's about letting people know what really happened :rolleyes:

Tweeder

[grigori]

But the most important thing to remember is that it's "Not about the money" it's about letting people know what really happened :rolleyes:

Tweeder

Then very few will like it because readers in the public have a "terminator" kind of image when it comes to SF,they are puzzled when they hear that SF personnel need to be mentally strong,need the ability to think on their feet.

For example I was reading the comments on a book by Mark Urban "Task Force Black" about the SAS in Iraq and many were commenting that it was crap,dull stuff because they did not get to read the Call of Duty stuff they believe is what SF do.

Coming on to the part "letting people really know what happened" it is sometimes sad to read how people write stuff like "our taxes pay for your gear,we have a right to know what you do,where you go".If they want to know so much then they should spend a few days in A'stan they'll get the idea very well.

I am a nobody to comment on SF/SMU.I am not a BTDT,the best people to judge in such matters are the QP's on this forum.

[cbtengr]

McRaven is an admiral, a sr. officer, you do not attain that pay grade without playing some politics in your career. In watching the video I have to believe that he has gone Hollywood and that he truly enjoys the attention. We have no one other than the POTUS to thank for this, Obama is feeding off of the heroics of the Navy SEALS and anyone else that he can, it props him up for the next election. He is just so courageous for having these men risk their lives for us, and the job Panetta is doing, great job, fine job, who the hell is Panetta and other than living off the govt. teat all these years what has he done? The Army has had its own share of these 3 & 4 star larger than life types. They degrade all of us who ever wore the uniform honorably. McRaven talks about John Wayne, maybe he fancies himself as a modern John Wayne but I will promise you this he is no John Wayne. John Wayne knew who he was. There is a danger here in our country and it scares the living hell out of me.

[Geenie]

McRaven is an admiral, a sr. officer, you do not attain that pay grade without playing some politics in your career. In watching the video I have to believe that he has gone Hollywood and that he truly enjoys the attention. We have no one other than the POTUS to thank for this, Obama is feeding off of the heroics of the Navy SEALS and anyone else that he can, it props him up for the next election. [...]

Sir, could you clarify how the fact that Admiral McRaven has supposedly "gone Hollywood" is President Obama's fault?

[Pete]

Sir, could you clarify how the fact that Admiral McRaven has supposedly "gone Hollywood" is President Obama's fault?

Command Climate.

[Sigaba]

The SEALs efforts to place themselves in the public consciousness "fits" within the broader context of American history. Battleships were not named after states by accident.

(That being said, I suspect that the current administration has an agenda that is more focused on its own political fortunes than a positive vision of civil-military relations.)
It is sad to see that the media [do] not understand the true capabilities of SF and people aren't getting the clear picture.

How can the American public become educated about SOF in general and SF in particular? How clear should this picture be? Should other elements of the SOF community "fight fire with fire"? Are there ways to balance the public's interest without succumbing to the allure of the TMZ, and without compromising OPSEC? What happens if the public decides that it not only has a desire to know, but also the right to know? While BTDTs and SMEs point out the risks of stepping into the public eye, what might be the consequences of remaining too quiet while the Navy goes on a prolonged public relations rampage?

[Richard]

We'll know it's gotten out of hand when they start naming their Zodiac IBS's (Itty Bitty Ships) after congresscritters.

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

[Streck-Fu]

We'll know it's gotten out of hand when they start naming their Zodiac IBS's (Itty Bitty Ships) after congresscritters.



Actually that may be more appropriate....even more so would be to rename the ship after a member of Congress when they decommission the ship.

[Renegade]

Report: Top Spec Ops Officer Seeks New Powers

http://www.military.com/news/article/report-top-spec-ops-officer-seeks-new-powers.html?comp=700001075741&rank=2

[Frog]

McRaven is an admiral, a sr. officer, you do not attain that pay grade without playing some politics in your career. In watching the video I have to believe that he has gone Hollywood and that he truly enjoys the attention. We have no one other than the POTUS to thank for this, Obama is feeding off of the heroics of the Navy SEALS and anyone else that he can, it props him up for the next election. He is just so courageous for having these men risk their lives for us, and the job Panetta is doing, great job, fine job, who the hell is Panetta and other than living off the govt. teat all these years what has he done? The Army has had its own share of these 3 & 4 star larger than life types. They degrade all of us who ever wore the uniform honorably. McRaven talks about John Wayne, maybe he fancies himself as a modern John Wayne but I will promise you this he is no John Wayne. John Wayne knew who he was. There is a danger here in our country and it scares the living hell out of me.

Wow, you make a lot of assumptions. First I have known ADM McRaven for 27 years and your accusations are completely false. He doesn't play politics, but he knows how to handle them. Second, he hates "Hollywood" and has zero desire to be in the media. Third, he doesn't "fancy" himself anything else than what he is and your John Wayne remark is uncalled for. Lastly, I was present when LTG Vaught spoke to the Admiral and later on over the next 2 days at the conference. The General seems to suffer from dementia as he had quite a few other outbursts over the 2 day conference. They were off topic and mostly absurd. At first they drew a little laughter, and then it was outright embarrassing. A large contingent of press was there and he didn't seem to care that he was getting himself in the news. He also asked a one star Admiral (Non SOF), Why don't we blow those bastards from Iran away in the Gulf of Hormuz?” He also yelled at Senator Reed, "Is Congress going to get anything done this year!?” Finally he asked a senior panel of SOF GO/FOs, “Why the hell are we still using the 40 year old budget system that McNamara gave us”? Answer: Because it works.

[alright4u]

Wow, you make a lot of assumptions. First I have known ADM McRaven for 27 years and your accusations are completely false. He doesn't play politics, but he knows how to handle them. Second, he hates "Hollywood" and has zero desire to be in the media. Third, he doesn't "fancy" himself anything else than what he is and your John Wayne remark is uncalled for. Lastly, I was present when LTG Vaught spoke to the Admiral and later on over the next 2 days at the conference. The General seems to suffer from dementia as he had quite a few other outbursts over the 2 day conference. They were off topic and mostly absurd. At first they drew a little laughter, and then it was outright embarrassing. A large contingent of press was there and he didn't seem to care that he was getting himself in the news. He also asked a one star Admiral (Non SOF), Why don't we blow those bastards from Iran away in the Gulf of Hormuz?” He also yelled at Senator Reed, "Is Congress going to get anything done this year!?” Finally he asked a senior panel of SOF GO/FOs, “Why the hell are we still using the 40 year old budget system that McNamara gave us”? Answer: Because it works.

You seem to be the man in the know? Why the movie? Are any AD folks in it?

Thanks.

[Utah Bob]

He doesn't play politics, but he knows how to handle them. .

I have no idea what that means.

[Frog]

You seem to be the man in the know? Why the movie? Are any AD folks in it?

Thanks.

The movie started out as a recruiting film (like the old "Men with Green Faces") and got bigger. It was fully supported by COMNAVSPECWARCOM and the US Navy. Yes, there are some AD guys in it and while I don't agree with it, they did it anyway. Other AD SEALs are in the press all the time, such as those on the Navy Parachute Team and documentaries you see all the time on Discovery. That probably led to the decision to screen guys for the Movie. I heard that some were out now, so that makes sense, i.e., their operating time was over.

[Frog]

I have no idea what that means.

That means he did a tour working for GEN (Ret) Downing at the Whitehouse in the CT shop. He has spent time around senior administration officials and understands politicians. That doesn't mean he IS a politician.

[PRB]

Hey Frog,
Your idea of not going Hollywood and the SF idea of that attitude are not the same for sure.
I'm not sure if the old Gen is senile or not, could be, but I hope the only stuff I blurt out when I go that way is job oriented.
Listen, the SF way of low profile is being wounded in a mash unit and NOT allowing CNN in to talk to anyone or who, what ,where.
It is, as the senile Gen said, doing the job and letting someone else get the credit.
It is not: making a Seal GQ Calendar with weapons and your shirts off after pumping up.
Making movies when on active duty regardless of the command influence.
Your services idea of low profile would be high profile elsewhere.

[alright4u]

The movie started out as a recruiting film (like the old "Men with Green Faces") and got bigger. It was fully supported by COMNAVSPECWARCOM and the US Navy. Yes, there are some AD guys in it and while I don't agree with it, they did it anyway. Other AD SEALs are in the press all the time, such as those on the Navy Parachute Team and documentaries you see all the time on Discovery. That probably led to the decision to screen guys for the Movie. I heard that some were out now, so that makes sense, i.e., their operating time was over.

I question the wisdom of anyone from all branches of the military in SOCOM who post their mug shot on facebook or the likes of it. Sport parachute teams like the Golden Knights were not where operators wanted to be. Now, Navy and AF pilots on demo teams may be an exception.

Those on the way out- fine. I was impressed with CPT Larry Bailey as he and his folks had BUDS class INFO from day one. Damn hard to be a wannabe SEAL.

Thanks.

[Roguish Lawyer]

With Frog here now, only QPs or others with appropriate credentials should be posting in this thread. Thanks.

[alright4u]

http://www.commandposts.com/2011/11/admiral-mcraven-and-the-quiet-before-the-operation-neptune-storm/

My gut feeling about McRaven is he has a serious lack of COMBAT experience in his career from an Ensign to Lt Commander. A Combat Action Ribbon and Bronze Stars are nothing more then I been there and did my job awards for officers in a combat zone. Equate the Bronze Star to a Good Conduct Medal for O4's to O-1's. Equate a BSM for an O-5 with a combat command as a bad frigging OER.

[Roguish Lawyer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-ScX2LKYDPI

[mark46th]

The SEALS have Act of Valor, SF has Men Who Stare at Goats. Talk about inter-service inequality. Of course, that is better than the Taliban SOF movie- Men Who Have Sex with Goats.

[Richard]

The SEALS have Act of Valor, SF has Men Who Stare at Goats. Talk about inter-service inequality. Of course, that is better than the Taliban SOF movie- Men Who Have Sex with Goats.

I didn't see that one - I'm still trying to get over seeing "Taliban Who Act Valorous And Share Their Goats"... :D

Richard :munchin

[mark46th]

:D:D

[Scimitar]

Let's look at the mission and recruiting requirements of both units.

I have trained with Seal candidates, and I have interacted with hundreds of 18x candidates.

To me the SEAL candidates, where tough, young, hard charging bastards. The type who would jump into a bar fight for the fun of it.

Where as, most of the 18x recruits I interacted with, where just as tough, but would more then likely walk away from the bar fight, cos they didn't give a shit, unless someone was really getting hurt, or it was their buddy in the middle of it. They'd probably tell you they have something more important to do then roll around on the ground with some drunk fucker.

My point is this. This entire media BS is exactly what SEALs need to attract the right kind of guys they need to accomplish their mission. As far as I can see, Seals are Rangers+ with flippers; it is not, in my limited opinion, what SF needs, cos SF needs a DIFFERENT kinda guy. I don't think I'll get any argument on that here.

Good on the SEALS with all their BS propaganda, it's what attracts 1000s of candidates to their "18x" program and therefore allows them to pick the top 20% of candidates, unlike SFAS picking its top 40%, and word has it letting some guys slide, so as to reach the 750 yearly grad goal to meet QDR growth goals.

The Army's 18x program on the other hand didn't want to know shit about a similar program to boost its quantity and quality of recruits, a program, I may add, that was geared to attract an SF kind of guy, (i.e. it wasn't a hollywerid program).

My point is this, Hollywood works for SEALS and gives them more hard charging bastards to choose from and therefore lifts the quality of their candidate, and in turn lifts the quality of their "operators" (sorry couldn't resist).

I'm not saying Hollywood is for SF at all, but SF has to stop thinking its recruiting effort starts at the gate to Camp MacKall.

With the likely semi permanent RIF and the possible continued increase in the size of SOF across the board, the 18x program is here to stay.

I have never had this question answered. Why is SF command not working more closely with USAREC to develop an attraction program to increase the quality and quantity of its 18x recruit?

I'm sure all the SF guys on the board would like to see SFAS at 20% selection cos the quality and quantity of recruit was so damn good.

I hate to say it but SF needs to learn something from SEALs, their recruiting program is smarter, better thought out, and it doesn’t have an attitude of that's not our job so its not our problem. Since when does SF think something in its AoR is not its problem?

Final point - SEALS are using Hollywood to become better at its mission, SF is saying the recruiting mission is not its problem, when the fuck did SEALS become smarter than SF.

I rant cos I care

S

[greenberetTFS]

Let's look at the mission and recruiting requirements of both units.

I have trained with Seal candidates, and I have interacted with hundreds of 18x candidates.

To me the SEAL candidates, where tough, young, hard charging bastards. The type who would jump into a bar fight for the fun of it.

Where as, most of the 18x recruits I interacted with, where just as tough, but would more then likely walk away from the bar fight, cos they didn't give a shit, unless someone was really getting hurt, or it was their buddy in the middle of it. They'd probably tell you they have something more important to do then roll around on the ground with some drunk fucker.

My point is this. This entire media BS is exactly what SEALs need to attract the right kind of guys they need to accomplish their mission. As far as I can see, Seals are Rangers+ with flippers; it is not, in my limited opinion, what SF needs, cos SF needs a DIFFERENT kinda guy. I don't think I'll get any argument on that here.

Good on the SEALS with all their BS propaganda, it's what attracts 1000s of candidates to their "18x" program and therefore allows them to pick the top 20% of candidates, unlike SFAS picking its top 40%, and word has it letting some guys slide, so as to reach the 750 yearly grad goal to meet QDR growth goals.

The Army's 18x program on the other hand didn't want to know shit about a similar program to boost its quantity and quality of recruits, a program, I may add, that was geared to attract an SF kind of guy, (i.e. it wasn't a hollywerid program).

My point is this, Hollywood works for SEALS and gives them more hard charging bastards to choose from and therefore lifts the quality of their candidate, and in turn lifts the quality of their "operators" (sorry couldn't resist).

I'm not saying Hollywood is for SF at all, but SF has to stop thinking its recruiting effort starts at the gate to Camp MacKall.

With the likely semi permanent RIF and the possible continued increase in the size of SOF across the board, the 18x program is here to stay.

I have never had this question answered. Why is SF command not working more closely with USAREC to develop an attraction program to increase the quality and quantity of its 18x recruit?

I'm sure all the SF guys on the board would like to see SFAS at 20% selection cos the quality and quantity of recruit was so damn good.

I hate to say it but SF needs to learn something from SEALs, their recruiting program is smarter, better thought out, and it doesn’t have an attitude of that's not our job so its not our problem. Since when does SF think something in its AoR is not its problem?

Final point - SEALS are using Hollywood to become better at its mission, SF is saying the recruiting mission is not its problem, when the fuck did SEALS become smarter than SF.

I rant cos I care

S


Makes damn good sense to me,you hit it on the head.............:rolleyes: I said it before SF PR sucks,the Marines PR is really good and now the SEALS are in the top spot for recruiting...........:eek: We need help from a first class PR group to bring in really good quality SF candidates...........;) After all isn't that how they got us...........:D

Big Teddy

[Scimitar]

TFS,

Tell me what I'm missing here, seriously. Cos this thing has been rolling around in my head for the last 4 years ever since I worked with the 18x recruiting program.

- DoD and Congress think we need more SOF, right or wrong, good luck arguing with them
- SF has to draw that from a smaller AD force, hence why SF was undermanned in the 90s after the post cold war RIF.
- The 18x program is the only solution for keeping the force at full strength and will continue to make up a significant part of the force for the years to come
- Currently the 18x recruiting program is exclusively handled by USAREC, who just gives it to guys who walk through the front door. USAREC and recruiters are not given any particular special requirements for 18x contracts abve and beyound ASVAB, and I have seen firsthand some guys get 18x contracts who are pretty poor candidates, IMHO.

- Now the SEALs aggressively market for THEIR right kind of guy, bring him into a specialized recruiting and preparation program
- They get so many guys interested, they can increase their minimums for entry into selection and decrease their selection percentage, and fundamentally get better guys then they where getting before, into and out the far end of the training pipeline

- You can't tell me that the same principle wouldn't work for SF and 18x program. Now I am not advocating movies and the bullshit that work well for SEALs, but there are some smart, targeted, low key strategies, that can let a lot more guys know about the 18x program, the more guys who know, the more who will approach, and the more recruits the greater quality that can be selected...and so on and so forth.

Remember they only found the quality of guys like you cos they had a larger force to draw on into a fundamentally smaller SF. We haven’t got the ratio we used to have.

We can't change the problems of today, with the mentalities of tomorrow - Einstein.

I’m not saying like it, but I am saying adapt and overcome.

[PRB]

Scimitar,
You make valid points.
SF needs to fill a pipeline and needs some kind of advertising without/within our public and our military.
That advertising apporach needs a precise focus, as you intimated, but does need wide dissemination.
Total 'silence' is not an option and it never has been.

[Scimitar]

Scimitar,
You make valid points.
SF needs to fill a pipeline and needs some kind of advertising without/within our public and our military.
That advertising apporach needs a precise focus, as you intimated, but does need wide dissemination.
Total 'silence' is not an option and it never has been.

Thank you PRB,

Internally the SORB guys do a great job, I beleive the main barrier is patch warfare between "Rangers / 101st" kinda thing and SF.

But externally there is NOTHING proactive happening with 18x. Remember USARECs job is to attract 18yo school leavers, fundamentaly what SF is NOT looking for. The 18x special mission has been given to the wrong guys.

Interestingly enough the SEALs 18x program is run by a contracting group of ex-SEALs. At the time I proposed something similar for the Armys 18x program. But I was told USASFC didn't think recruiting was it's problem, and USAREC certainly didn't want to let go of a special mission, and that pretty much came from the Brigade level.

I know I've completely highjacked this thread, but my point is SEALs are doing it better, and that pisses me off, and Im not even SF. :D

So what can PS.com so about it? There's quite a bit of political capital here. I have to say implementing an outsourced targeted 18x recruiting program would have a huge impact on the quality of 18x recruit coming through the pipline and with the following floe on effect.

Just thinking out loud chaps.

S