View Full Version : Femoral Shock
Smokin Joe
09-18-2004, 16:09
Has anyone heard of this or tried it?
I read some where, that you can knock out or incapacitate an individual by kicking them really hard in the femoral artery. Like a stomp kick, you would use to kick open a door. Used primarily during an assault when your hands are full and you don't want to double tap an individual but just put them down on the ground.
I don't want to violate any OPSEC here about assaults, CQB or (my new favorite) FISH, I'm speaking specifically of the stomp kick to the Femoral Artery.
Does it work? Or is it a load of crap?
Thank you for your input.
Has anyone heard of this or tried it?
I read some where, that you can knock out or incapacitate an individual by kicking them really hard in the femoral artery. Like a stomp kick, you would use to kick open a door. Used primarily during an assault when your hands are full and you don't want to double tap an individual but just put them down on the ground.
I don't want to violate any OPSEC here about assaults, CQB or (my new favorite) FISH, I'm speaking specifically of the stomp kick to the Femoral Artery.
Does it work? Or is it a load of crap?
Thank you for your input.
I have seen (once) and heard of this type of thing being done but I would not rely on it working consistantly enough to depend on when I needed it to work.
Kyobanim
09-18-2004, 16:36
There are several strikes of this nature that will put down or render unconscience but as Air said, I would not rely on any of them. I saw a neck strick take a guy down thursday night. Damndest thing I ever saw.
Smokin Joe
09-18-2004, 17:10
I fully appericate what you guys are saying. Nothing is 100% effective, its just something else to put in your tool bag. I just want to know if it is worth putting IN my tool bag.
Thanks for your replys they are appericated
NousDefionsDoc
09-18-2004, 19:07
There is a kick in the combatives sytem I was taught. It targets the outer thigh and the associated lumbar plexus neves, probably mostly the lateral femoral cutaneous and to a lesser extent the femoral nerve. It is difficult to do and requires a kind of swinging up and over to strike downwards on the outer thigh. while effective if done correctly, I found it to be hit or miss and while the misses still hurt like hell, only a hit will drop them.
The neck shot is much easier and produces the desired results more frequently IMO. Especially with the axe hand.
Speaking as the experienced training dummy from a PPCT class, a mid-powered hammerfist to the side of the neck will leave you dazed and confused. I'm pretty sure a full-power strike would put someone down RFN. As for the femoral strike, during the same class, we did half-speed strikes to the inner and outer thigh (trying to hit the nerve NDD spoke about) and while it hurt like hell, I don't think you'd get rapid incapacitation from it. Sure, they'll probably have the charlie horse of their lives and fall down, but as you know down doesn't equal out.
NousDefionsDoc
09-18-2004, 19:22
Kelly McCann did it on me and it put me right out, but he is Kelly McCann and although I managed to get it once or twice, it is hard to do.
Smokin Joe
09-18-2004, 19:52
NDD,
Me no understand lateral cu...cotani....ah whatever here are some pics about what I'm thinking about.
Pic 1:
I believe this is were the strike should occur. Granted its done with enough force that even if it doesn't knock the guy out its probably going to blow out his knee.
Pic 2:
NDD is this what you are talking about?
(hope this works)
NousDefionsDoc
09-18-2004, 19:54
About where the red line is on the 2nd pic, on the upper thigh.
Nice pants. :D
Smokin Joe
09-18-2004, 19:58
About where the red line is on the 2nd pic, on the upper thigh.
Nice pants. :D
Gee thanks...I'll pass your approval on to the Sheriff.
Ya, I'm at work and we are slow (knock on wood)
So your talking about striking on the center line of the thigh, right behind the front thigh muscle?
Thanks again for the input gentlemen.
NousDefionsDoc
09-18-2004, 21:02
Right, (10 characters)
While it's always nice to have new techniques to put into your toolbag (or man-bag, for some of the other members here :)), I would say that if you're going to be kicking like that, you may as well just go for the nuts, or stomp a knee. Like NDD was getting at, yeah, it could be a good technique with lots and lots of practice and some luck; but for the down and dirty, why risk missing and just giving the guy a charlie horse? I've seen a whole lot more people go down from getting kicked in the junk than from femoral shock.
Smokin Joe
09-18-2004, 21:57
While it's always nice to have new techniques to put into your toolbag (or man-bag, for some of the other members here :)), I would say that if you're going to be kicking like that, you may as well just go for the nuts, or stomp a knee. Like NDD was getting at, yeah, it could be a good technique with lots and lots of practice and some luck; but for the down and dirty, why risk missing and just giving the guy a charlie horse? I've seen a whole lot more people go down from getting kicked in the junk than from femoral shock.
Very true but I like to fight like a surgeon operates: Clear, Concise, and effective. Don't get me wrong if it goes to hell I will scrap, gouge eyes (to the second nuckle), pull the groin, spit, scratch whatever it takes to get the job done. But if I have my pick I want to use the most effective, fastest techinques I can to get the job done.
Additionally Dan I have seen guys take full on kicks to the 'junk' and not go down. It was a Martial Arts School in central California, they trained to take full on kicks and punches to the groin without it effecting them. Almost made me wanna puke just watching these guys get lifted off of the ground by forces of these kicks. :eek:
Well I guess the concenous is that this is not something I want to put in my toolbag.
Thanks all for the input........anymore would be greatly appericated.
NousDefionsDoc
09-18-2004, 22:17
Yeah Joe, I wouldn't bother with it much. There are much better things to practice IMO.
Additionally Dan I have seen guys take full on kicks to the 'junk' and not go down.
Oh, absolutely. I think just about all of us would agree that there is no single foolproof technique that will work every time--if there were, there'd be a whole lot of instructors out of business. My point was simply that if it gets down to it, going for the groin will most likely get you a more dramatic effect.
I don't think we're really disagreeing here, though.
Smokin Joe
09-19-2004, 13:46
Oh, absolutely. I think just about all of us would agree that there is no single foolproof technique that will work every time--if there were, there'd be a whole lot of instructors out of business. My point was simply that if it gets down to it, going for the groin will most likely get you a more dramatic effect.
I don't think we're really disagreeing here, though.
Yup, we are on the same sheet of music.
But I'm not going to train on this as it seems like my time would be better spent on axe handles and driving the head back.
The Reaper
09-19-2004, 14:44
Yup, we are on the same sheet of music.
But I'm not going to train on this as it seems like my time would be better spent on axe handles and driving the head back.
Well, now, if you are going to start using axe handles, it takes a bit of the sport out of it, what?
How do you conceal them?
TR
Smokin Joe
09-19-2004, 21:38
Well, now, if you are going to start using axe handles, it takes a bit of the sport out of it, what?
How do you conceal them?
TR
I've been watching those 'Highlander' Movies lately and they can conceal those broad swords so I think I can conceal an axe handle. :D The only downside is I have to wear a trench coat, in Arizona, in the summer.
Actually Sir, I mis-spoke its the axe hand, to the Juglar that I was refering to.
The Reaper
09-19-2004, 23:04
I've been watching those 'Highlander' Movies lately and they can conceal those broad swords so I think I can conceal an axe handle. :D The only downside is I have to wear a trench coat, in Arizona, in the summer.
Actually Sir, I mis-spoke its the axe hand, to the Juglar that I was refering to.
Thought you were going Lester Maddux on me. :D
TR
Smokin Joe
09-20-2004, 16:44
Thought you were going Lester Maddux on me. :D
TR
No SIR! Not on my life would I go that route.
Big Chief
10-28-2004, 10:08
I have never heard of femoral shock before, but it sounds theoretically vaild. How likely is it to happen? It would take one hell of a shot on a moving, fully-intentioned opponent. But, so would a finger jab to the eye = small target, heavilly guarded, moving, and being used by someone who is not too happy. :D
Any leg kick works well if it effects the opponent's balance/center of gravity. If you get the shock value from such a strike - great! If not, at least you have chopped down the tree and put him in a less mobile/more accessible position. Once on the ground you can go Gangsta and apply liberal kicks to about anywhere.
A shot to the groin can work very well if the opponent is unaware, but like someone else mentioned - if they are ready for it, they might just grimmace. Any technique that relies on pain to subdue an opponent is risky in my book. Its better to make an attack the creates structural damage - usually a joint, neck, spine, bust ear drums, eye (if possible). There are a variety options. ;)
Personally, I take many lessons from nature and almost all animals go for the throat. One of the best targets.... air, super heavy blood flow, tons of nerves, and the only skeletal protection is a highly-vulnerable chain called the "spinal collumn." Just about any hit to the neck will do tremendous damage (but take it easy on your Ukes/buddies). :p
My $0.02
sandytroop
11-22-2004, 09:26
All you PPCT guys recognize that as the strike to the common peroneal nerve. If your stick it in there, PPCT "Fluid Strike" style, it will certainly get a guy to go to neutral. Great when "escorting" unruly subects, you can stick it with a knee to the big nerve. In a fight, any solid hit to a nerve bundle beats a solid hit to a muscle... there's just so much more interresting stuff in nerve bundles!
Basenshukai
11-22-2004, 15:50
I've been hit in this area and it put me down fast. If the strike is accurate, it's very effective. If it's not that accurate, it hurts tremendously anyway.
My teacher was/is a big believer in showing the actual effects of these strikes so we experienced quite a few of them first-hand. SERE also presents a nice demostration of some of them.
sandytroop
11-22-2004, 15:59
No dout, I walked funny for a week after my PPCT Instructor's course. Your nerves take a pounding there, and it certainly made me a believer in target selection. I still suck at it, but close to a nerve is always an improvement over the usual flailing.
Smokin Joe
11-22-2004, 16:37
I agree the common perenoal is a good hit but my original question was about striking the Femoral Area of the thigh (inside the leg in between the groin and the knee).
Has anyone ever tried striking this area? I have yet to be able to K.O. someone by hitting or kicking them in this area. I'm thinking that in order for this to work it would have to be enough force to dislocate the knee as well as K.O. someone.
Any thoughts?
sandytroop
11-22-2004, 17:34
Sorry about that, I am obviously spacing it. In PPCT world that fermoral strike is used to stun an advancing attacker, but I've never experienced it outside of training (where my practice partner misplaced it and gave me a real interresting pain in my knee....). I think it's a lot like any other nerve involvement; if you hit it hard, it's likey to be quite effective. A good place to strike, but hard to get to. Sorry it took me so long to pull my head out.