View Full Version : Pedophile State
Bill Harsey
11-08-2011, 14:33
or what was known as Penn State.
If what I read is true, what a bunch of failures, all the up to and including Joe Paterno and the Penn State President.
story: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-said-to-be-planning-paternos-exit.html
Streck-Fu
11-08-2011, 14:38
After 50 years, this will be the summary of Joe Pa's career.
If there is one thing that reasonable folks should agree on - ZERO TOLERANCE - for this type of shit should be that one thing.
Red Flag 1
11-08-2011, 15:25
or what was known as Penn State.
If what I read is true, what a bunch of failures, all the up to and including Joe Paterno and the Penn State President.
story: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-said-to-be-planning-paternos-exit.html
That's what I see as well Bill. Paterno was in a regrettable, no-win position.
RF 1
greenberetTFS
11-08-2011, 16:11
That's what I see as well Bill. Paterno was in a regrettable, no-win position.
RF 1
I think I see both of your points,but that's no way to treat a man that has done so much good to football and Penn State..:(
Big Teddy :munchin
Joe did what he was supposed to do in the beginning which was to move this up the his chain of command, I am guessing he did not figure they were gonna bury it, which in the end may be his downfall. However if he goes down then the assistant who originally reported it ti him has to be on the hook too, and who knows how many others. Hindsight is always 20/20 and I am guessing that had Joe had it to do all over again he would have pursued this more vigorously. I personally do not think he should be the fall guy.
Roguish Lawyer
11-08-2011, 16:31
If this was going on at Penn State, just imagine the situation at Notre Dame! :munchin :D
full cooler
11-08-2011, 16:52
Seems to me that Coach P could have avoided any of these problems by doing the right thing when it happened. I won't ever think of football when someone mentions his name to me.
I wonder if Sandusky was working for Paterno as defensive coordinator (or in any other capacity) when Paterno heard that Sandusky was molesting a child at the PSU athletic facilities?
IMO, Paterno should have confronted Sandusky and turned him in to police and not just report up the chain.
Paterno was certainly aware of the scandals that plagued the Catholic church in the mid 1980's.
IMO, one child's innocence (and stopping the next line of victims) is worth any temporary pain potentially caused to the institution.
If I hear of child molestation in my building.
ZERO TOLERANCE.
Sorry Jo Pa - maybe you should not take the fall - but the kid should not have been molested and, if true, Sandusky should have been stopped years ago.
mojaveman
11-08-2011, 16:57
Apparently the perpetrator was literally caught in the act at onetime and nobody blew the whistle.
He was a coach of a sports team. Is this who we think is important these days. We are fucked if true.
I contributed to society a thousand times more then this guy. Guilty or innocent. 4 year old kids play the same game. Shit, don't tell him that:D
Buffalobob
11-08-2011, 18:43
He was a coach of a sports team. Is this who we think is important these days. We are fucked if true.
Great Post!!!
They make big money and contribute nothing to society.
mojaveman
11-08-2011, 18:51
They make big money and contribute nothing to society.
Along with athletes and entertainers.
My heros go far away places and slay our enemies.
craigepo
11-09-2011, 09:24
This could get interesting.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/questions-on-sandusky-wrapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html?src=tp&smid=fb-share
If this was going on at Penn State, just imagine the situation at Notre Dame! :munchin :D
Oh SNAP !!!!!!!!
ROTFLMMFAO :D :D
Lthrnck1775
11-09-2011, 10:41
...I'm inclined to believe Jo Pa is a better guy than the furor is alluding to. (Hell i want to believe SOMEone is still a standup coach anymore). I'll wait til it all comes out in the wash. We have NO idea exactly what the Grad Asst told JoPa he saw.... if it was a generic "something inappropriate" accusation from a Grad Asst against his former def. coord..... he reported it up the chain. Was he supposed to file a police report on heresay? JoPa is claiming nothing as specific as the Grand Jury accusations was conveyed to him at the time. I'm baffled how a 28? yr old Grad Asst could witness a CRIME and not stop it....
I question why the Mom and or Grad Asst did not call the cops? There is some inferring in some of the stories that the Mother DID resport this... if so - HOW did it "go away" for 10+ years? I'm baffled... there has to be more to this!
Pending judgement until the intel is in.....
Bill Harsey
11-09-2011, 11:04
For those who doubt this might not be serious, close your office door, turn off all other media and read this Sandusky Grand Jury Report:
http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/sandusky-grand-jury-presentment.pdf
Smells like a probable cover up to me, Head Football Coach included.
Bill Harsey
11-09-2011, 11:09
This could get interesting.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/questions-on-sandusky-wrapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html?src=tp&smid=fb-share
Thanks for posting, I'd read that. Most interesting.
Streck-Fu
11-09-2011, 12:44
For those who doubt this might not be serious, close your office door, turn off all other media and read this Sandusky Grand Jury Report:
http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/sandusky-grand-jury-presentment.pdf
Smells like a probable cover up to me, Head Football Coach included.
This whole thing is disgusting. Everyone that had a hint of this going on needs to be jail.
This defies logic and call into question the very character of everyone involved. Who the hell could just let this go by telling someone up the chain of command?
How the hell does the GA witness this and not knock the teeth out Sandusky upon walking into the locker....Gee, an former assistant that operates a children's charity is sodomizing a kid in my team shower....I better tell the coach...:confused: F--- him, he should eat a shotgun tonight for dinner.
Joe Pa has carefully built a reputation of developing young men into moral and ethical adults where character is paramount. The grand jury just threw a huge bullshit flag on everything he claimed to be.
A lot of people need to go to prison for this.....allegedly...:rolleyes:
In 1998, Paterno donated $3.5 million dollars to Penn State for academic purposes <<LINK (http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=PI&s_site=philly&p_multi=PI&p_theme=realcities&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EB32F7C4C93AD62&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM)>>. In no small part due to Paterno's commitment to the notion that athletic and academic excellence are not incompatible goals, a wing of a Penn State library bears his name <<LINK2 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=igMzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=VggGAAAAIBAJ&pg=2325,305885&dq=joe+paterno+contributions+library&hl=en)>>.
@Lthrnck1775 IMO, it is difficult to understand why Paterno never asked a follow up question. Metaphorically, if someone were to tell you that they saw a life-threatening flaw at a construction project you were managing, would you just pass along the information? Or would you also go and see for yourself and ask some follow up questions?
Paterno is hardly being reprimanded for his despicable inaction regarding this case. His contract was up at the end of this season anyways. All the bastards involved in this deserve to be punished. From the 28 yr. old grown man "grad student" to Paterno himself. The victims were 10 and 11 year old children.
This could get interesting.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sp...&smid=fb-share
Yes, and darker by the minute.
Source is here (http://hamptonroads.com/2011/11/penn-state-trustees-oust-football-coach-paterno-president-spanier).Penn State trustees oust football coach, president
By Genaro C. Armas
STATE COLLEGE, Pa.
Penn State trustees fired football coach Joe Paterno and university president Graham Spanier (SPAN<-yer) amid the growing furor over how the school handled sex abuse allegations against an assistant coach.
The massive shakeup Wednesday night came hours after Paterno announced that he planned to retire at the end of his 46th season.
But the outcry following the arrest of former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky on molestation charges proved too much for the board to ignore.
One key question has been why Paterno and other top school officials didn't go to police in 2002 after being told a graduate assistant saw Sandusky assaulting a boy in a school shower.
Paterno says he should have done more. Spanier has said he was not told the details of the attack.
Sandusky has denied the charges.
The balance of this breaking story is available at the link above.
Oldrotorhead
11-09-2011, 22:12
...I'm inclined to believe Jo Pa is a better guy than the furor is alluding to. (Hell i want to believe SOMEone is still a standup coach anymore). I'll wait til it all comes out in the wash. We have NO idea exactly what the Grad Asst told JoPa he saw.... if it was a generic "something inappropriate" accusation from a Grad Asst against his former def. coord..... he reported it up the chain. Was he supposed to file a police report on heresay? JoPa is claiming nothing as specific as the Grand Jury accusations was conveyed to him at the time. I'm baffled how a 28? yr old Grad Asst could witness a CRIME and not stop it....
I question why the Mom and or Grad Asst did not call the cops? There is some inferring in some of the stories that the Mother DID resport this... if so - HOW did it "go away" for 10+ years? I'm baffled... there has to be more to this!
Pending judgement until the intel is in.....
This grad student was 28 years old. He was 28 years old, at what age do you thinks someone would have to be not to have to ask dad what to do. Most of the people in the Military are independent, self reliant and would have made a quick decision about what to do and would not have gone home to daddy to get bad advice.
Paterno is just as bad. I guess he was worried about his team and his reputation and not some 10 year old kid that already had a sucky life.
The little 6' 200 pound grad student and his stupid father deserve ridicule as does Paterno.
As a side point does the University Police Department do anything but issue parking tickets? A 40+ member police department had more than a decade to work this out and with a better outcome. Penn State now makes Miami and Ohio football programs look really good.
In short this went on for a decade because Penn State and Joe Paterno wanted to protect the University from bad PR and keep the money from the Alum.'s rolling in. They didn't care how many under privileged little kids had to pay for the "Glory of Penn State football."
Oldrotorhead
11-09-2011, 22:19
Joe did what he was supposed to do in the beginning which was to move this up the his chain of command, I am guessing he did not figure they were gonna bury it, which in the end may be his downfall. However if he goes down then the assistant who originally reported it ti him has to be on the hook too, and who knows how many others. Hindsight is always 20/20 and I am guessing that had Joe had it to do all over again he would have pursued this more vigorously. I personally do not think he should be the fall guy.
Joe Paterno is a civilian as am I. I do not have a chain of command and I don't have to ask any boss's permission to go to the police if something like this happens, nor would I ask permission. No one including Paterno did the honoragle thing by making sure Sandusky was arrested for his behavior.
DJ Urbanovsky
11-10-2011, 00:53
Some people care more about self preservation than they do about doing what's right.
Maybe somebody told old Joe to keep his mouth shut or his career was over.
Maybe somebody told old Joe to keep his mouth shut or he would be over.
Old Joe likes coaching a winning team at a major university.
Old Joe likes money and prestige.
Old Joe likes getting the best table in the place when he goes out to eat.
Old Joe likes his Mercedes Benz.
Old Joe likes living.
I don't know diddly about Old Joe. But I know that wrong, disgusting situations like this happen all the time. Because there's evil out in the world.
Lthrnck1775
11-10-2011, 07:54
@ Sigaba
My main issue is that there are "allegations" and an "indictments" so far... yet everyone claims to already KNOW what JoePa knew and when.... also no one knows HOW this Grad Asst conveyed the info that he witnessed - and THAT guy still has a job??? WTF?
I do agree that it LOOKS like everyone dropped the ball, did no follow up, or worse deliberately buried it..... but it seems everyone already KNOWS all the answers.
I would fault everyone for not insuring that the Grad Asst went to the police FIRST.
Lingering questions: Why is the Grad Asst exempt from all this - as a first hand WITNESS!? Where is the mother/father of the boys police report and investigation? Why did EVERYONE ignore the 2002 "shower incident" for 9 YEARS?
Just seems the lynch mob wants eveyone's (oops, i mean only JoePa's) blood first, ask questions later.
Sacamuelas
11-10-2011, 08:13
Joe IS the top of the chain of command at Pedophile state. THis happened in the football locker room,etc. It was a football coach. It was a football GA that eyewitnessed the event. It was JOE that was told about it. He LET this go on for years after with no followup. In his written statement, He ADMITTED that he feels guilty,etc and feels sorry for the victims BUT after retirement he will focus his efforts on helping the UNIVERSITY????
Good gawd... I wish I could perform a little chuck norris justice on each and every one of these gutless, self preserving enablers. :mad:
To those of you that feel sorry for Joe.... I must admit that I "feel" less respect for you too. From a person that lives and breathes college football, F#$k football... this is about those kids (victims). I could care less about football legacy. :rolleyes:
Great Post!!!
They make big money and contribute nothing to society.
Tell that to the young men and women who have the opportunity to play college sports and earn a degree. Tell that to the 40, 50, 60, 70, and 80 year olds that played for them. They are educators, mentors, and father figures who help shape the lives of our future generations.
greenberetTFS
11-10-2011, 09:16
Joe IS the top of the chain of command at Pedophile state. THis happened in the football locker room,etc. It was a football coach. It was a football GA that eyewitnessed the event. It was JOE that was told about it. He LET this go on for years after with no followup. In his written statement, He ADMITTED that he feels guilty,etc and feels sorry for the victims BUT after retirement he will focus his efforts on helping the UNIVERSITY????
Good gawd... I wish I could perform a little chuck norris justice on each and every one of these gutless, self preserving enablers.
To those of you that feel sorry for Joe.... I must admit that I "feel" less respect for you too. From a person that lives and breathes college football, F#$k football... this is about those kids (victims). I could care less about football legacy.
You're absolutely right,it's certainly difficult to defend his lack of action......:mad: My son works for Penn State as the Director of Sales in their book dept(University Press)........ :) He introduce me to Joe at a fund raiser about 10 years ago,I'll be posting his comments from his FB.............:)
Big Teddy :munchin
I originally gave the coach the benefit of the doubt but must admit that he was as culpable as anyone for this going on the past nine years. The assistant has got to go too, anyone with first hand knowledge of this has got to GO! The majority of folks are not gonna remember Paterno for those 409 wins.
dr. mabuse
11-10-2011, 11:59
Loyalty above all except football, er, honor. :mad:
McQueary is not a man of diminutive stature. I wasn't there. If it's true, how many future victims could have been saved if McQueary practiced the old " A man wouldn't take it" mindset.
Was in a very similar situation as McQueary in the 70's and handled it differently and payed very,very dearly for doing the right thing, standing up to crooked police officers.
No regrets, no excuses. BTDT.
The students are voicing their opinions today and it seems to be "Ehh, no big deal. Back to the Game.l"
Free Love and all, ya' know.
College kids running around protesting stupid things isn't anything novel, this whole thing is so repulsive, as previously posted, I've always preferred college football to the NFL with an appreciation for the old school traditions and history of Penn State, but those young kids mean more than football, a disgusting leadership fail for Paterno, no sympathy for him here.
Tell that to the young men and women who have the opportunity to play college sports and earn a degree. Tell that to the 40, 50, 60, 70, and 80 year olds that played for them. They are educators, mentors, and father figures who help shape the lives of our future generations.
WCH Sir,
Agree with your post 110%.
Lumping all in to a category due to this one person's actions seems a bit outlandish to me, as my college sports coach helped me by, with and through obstacles that presented themselves, and in my later life, I tried to emulate those qualities when coaching those under me...in quite a few areas actually.
JMHO,
Holly:munchin
I don't know diddly about Old Joe. Then why did you make comments about what "Old Joe" likes?
Then why did you make comments about what "Old Joe" likes?
Meh. Really?
Dirt Gallo
11-10-2011, 16:03
This entire situation stinks.
How much of it Joe Pa knew ... who knows. But, he took part in sweeping it under the rug, therefore, deserves whatever they throw at him. He was in a position of authority in his tiny corner of the world and could have done something about it. He did not.
As for what he has done and what he has contributed to Penn State? So what. Sandusky gave the boys gifts too. That doesn't make it any more right.
Let 'em burn.
But, then again, it's just my opinion... and my name is Nobody.
Joe Paterno is a civilian as am I. I do not have a chain of command and I don't have to ask any boss's permission to go to the police if something like this happens, nor would I ask permission. No one including Paterno did the honoragle thing by making sure Sandusky was arrested for his behavior.
Very true. To make matters worse, Sandusky wasn't employed by Penn State at the time; he wasn't part of any so-called "chain of command". Sandusky retired in 1999 when he was informed he wasn't going to be Paterno's successor. He stayed in the area and was allowed use of the facilities at any time, including the 2002 incident the graduate assistant witnessed.
So the 28 year old grown man "grad student" who witnessed the 10 year old child being attacked in the shower by the monster Sandusky is now a receivers coach for Penn State? He is still employed by the school. This makes absolutely no sense. Mike McQueary is a coward and he deserves to not only lose his job, but be brought up on charges as well. Sickening.
The attached article provides an interesting perspective from a couple of NHL players (I believe Fleury has retired) who were molested as children.
The fact that these guys are/were in the NHL does not make them special but it does provide them a platform to communicate with other victims and families.
http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7208581/rick-reilly-penn-state-scandal
Remember the children
By Rick Reilly
ESPN.com
Excerpts:
This is not about Joe Paterno.
If these boys really were molested, groped and raped by a middle-aged ex-Penn State football coach, then whatever misjudgment Paterno made will be a single lit match compared to the bonfire these boys will walk in for years to come.
Many of them won't be able to trust. Won't be able to love. Won't be able to feel -- nor trust or love themselves.
Don't feel sorry for Paterno. He's had his life. Feel sorry for these boys, because they may never get one.
Ask former NHL All-Star Theo Fleury, who has reached out on Twitter and radio to the alleged victims of Jerry Sandusky. Fleury was sexually molested once or twice a week for two years by his youth hockey coach, Graham James. It twisted Fleury so inside-out that he numbed himself for years with booze, cocaine and strippers. He blew much of the $50 million he made in the NHL trying to forget. The coach he'd entrusted his hockey dreams to flayed open his soul for his own sexual perversions and left Fleury hollow.
"I no longer had faith in myself or my own judgment," Fleury, 43, wrote in his book "Playing with Fire." "Once it's gone, how do you get it back? ... I became a f---ing raging, alcoholic lunatic."
Ask former Red Wing, Flame and Bruin Sheldon Kennedy. He was sexually molested by James every Tuesday and Thursday night at parent-approved sleepovers at James' house from age 14 to 19. This snake even took Fleury and Kennedy to Disneyland, where he groped them, by turn, in a motel room. It left Kennedy so shamed and confused that suicide looked better to him than living with the guilt of it another day.
"You can't trust anybody afterwards," Kennedy said yesterday from Toronto, where he runs RespectGroupInc.com, an organization that teaches adults how to recognize abuse. "So you tend to live a very lonely life. You mask the horrible way you're feeling with sex and gambling and drugs. You put all these walls up. You keep saying, 'Why didn't I say anything? I must've done something wrong. I let him do it to me.'"
Imagine: One reported victim in the Penn State case, now 24, has been living with that kind of hole growing inside him since he made allegations against Sandusky in 1998 -- 13 years ago. Those allegations never led to charges. That's 13 years of not being believed, of knowing his alleged perpetrator was out there, volunteering at high schools and running his grisly camp "tours" of the shower room.
The horror of it makes you want to punch somebody. If Kennedy could talk to boys Sandusky might have abused who haven't come forward yet?
"Tell someone," says Kennedy, now 42. "Because people are going to believe you. People know it's not your fault."
No, this isn't about 84-year-old Joe Paterno not taking more steps that might have stopped it. It's about everybody not taking more steps that might have stopped it. Not parents, not teachers, not uncles, not friends, not counselors.
Imagine: Victim One, according to the Harrisburg (Pa.) Patriot-News, was often taken out of class by Sandusky to be further molested. Just taken out of school by somebody who wasn't his parent, with no questions asked until his mother finally called the principal and asked her to check into it. Later that day, the principal called back in tears. "You need to come down here right now."
According to a 1998 study on child sexual abuse by Boston University Medical School, one in six boys in America will be abused by age 16. For girls, it's one in four by the age of 14. Those "If you see something, say something" billboards shouldn't just be about terrorism. They may apply to sex abuse, too. Doesn't matter if it's your uncle, your longtime assistant coach or your buddy. You HAVE to say something. And yet, precious few people have the guts to say anything at all.
"The fear is too strong," Kennedy says. "People don't know what to do. They think, 'Oh my god, how bad is this going to look? What are we going to do now that we've let this guy operate right under our noses? We better keep quiet.' But it can't work like that anymore."
Does Kennedy blame Paterno?
"Does he have grandkids? [Yes, 17.] How would he feel if it were one of his grandkids in that shower with the coach? What would he have done? Somehow, the perpetrator felt welcome at that school. We need systems in place that make perpetrators feel unwelcome."
What must those boys feel like, right now, as all this darkness gets played out in front of the camera lights?
"Probably second-guessing themselves," Kennedy says. "Coming forward doesn't get these boys any further ahead in life. It isn't easy. But it has to happen."
The road these boys are on now is endless and buckled and uphill. Some will hate their parents for not protecting them and hate themselves for hating them. They will hate the pervert for tricking them and hate themselves for being tricked. And just when they think this cruel and long legal process is over, it can start all over again.
Imagine: Kennedy's abuser, James, got 3½ years but was pardoned by the Canadian National Parole Board in 2007. Currently, he is out on bail, awaiting sentencing on nine more counts of sexual abuse and who knows how many more sinister trips to motel rooms.
If all these charges turn out to be true, though, soon he and Sandusky will both be going to prison -- a place where, with any luck, they will feel most unwelcome.
DJ Urbanovsky
11-10-2011, 22:15
Because I know a little bit about human behavioral patterns, insofar as they pertain to matters of this magnitude. Kind of like how I know that your post here is an attempt on your part to get me to engage in some sort of time wasting pissing match with you.
Then why did you make comments about what "Old Joe" likes?
@ Sigaba
My main issue is that there are "allegations" and an "indictments" so far... yet everyone claims to already KNOW what JoePa knew and when.... also no one knows HOW this Grad Asst conveyed the info that he witnessed - and THAT guy still has a job??? WTF?
I do agree that it LOOKS like everyone dropped the ball, did no follow up, or worse deliberately buried it..... but it seems everyone already KNOWS all the answers.
I would fault everyone for not insuring that the Grad Asst went to the police FIRST.
Lingering questions: Why is the Grad Asst exempt from all this - as a first hand WITNESS!? Where is the mother/father of the boys police report and investigation? Why did EVERYONE ignore the 2002 "shower incident" for 9 YEARS?
Just seems the lynch mob wants eveyone's (oops, i mean only JoePa's) blood first, ask questions later.Lthrnck1775--
I can see your point about wanting to make sure there's a complete and full inquiry into all the circumstances surrounding this debacle.
I can also understand your concern that this situation is being used by some to make broad generalizations that are driven by assumptions but unsubstantiated by any kind of actual evidence.
Both of your viewpoints merit consideration--especially on the heels of the thoughtful discussion of the controversy that Michael Yon started.
However, I believe that the questions you raised in your reply add further justification for Paterno's removal. That is, not only did Paterno--by his own admission--fail to report an attack on a child to the police, he also failed to put Mike McQueary in a position to do the right thing--that is, to report directly the attack to the authorities.
Remington Raidr
11-11-2011, 02:44
Paterno is hardly being reprimanded for his despicable inaction regarding this case. His contract was up at the end of this season anyways. All the bastards involved in this deserve to be punished. From the 28 yr. old grown man "grad student" to Paterno himself. The victims were 10 and 11 year old children.
Mike McQueary Will Have to Publicly Live with His Cowardice: A Fan’s Perspective
By Pete Lieber, Yahoo! Contributor Network
Nov 9, 1:43 pm EST
Mike McQueary never asked to be a hero. On March 1, 2002, then a 28-year old graduate assistant for Joe Paterno's Penn State Nittany Lions football program, McQueary was doing what so many young coaches do as they scratch and claw from the bottom of a competitive totem pole to earn a respected place in their coaching community. He was working late.
Now (or for the time being) the recruiting coordinator and wide receivers coach for PSU, McQueary entered the locker room at approximately 9:30 p.m. to put away a new pair of sneakers and to grab some recruiting tape to undoubtedly pour over through the night. Coaching at that level doesn't put a damper on free time, it extinguishes it. There are never enough hours in a day. So, when McQueary entered that locker room like he had so many times before, there is no doubt that what he came upon would bewilder, frighten, and possibly confuse anybody of right mind who stumbled upon it. The following was taken directly from the grand jury report, and if you haven't read it, it's graphic in nature:
"As the graduate assistant entered the locker room doors, he was surprised to find the lights and showers on. He then heard rhythmic, slapping sounds. He believed the sounds to be those of sexual activity. As the graduate assistant put the sneakers in his locker, he looked into the shower. He saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both Victim 2 and Sandusky saw him. The graduate assistant left immediately, distraught."
There can't possibly be anything that would prepare you to see something that egregious in the realm of humanity. On its base, I feel for McQueary for having to witness it. However, in comparison to how I feel for the unnamed, faceless ten year old boy that was treated to the business end of sodomy by a sadistic, purely evil, predator, McQueary was treated to ice cream that night. And that is why his cowardice in fleeing the situation is as high in culpability as the perpetration of the crime itself. Something in McQueary's head told him that running to his office to call his father to ask what to do was the prudent move. Something in his father's head thought the prudent thing to do would be to have his son leave the building and come over to the house to discuss it. Meanwhile, there was a 10-year old boy in the shower with a monster. He was left there. This was not some infant swaddled in warm blankets abandoned on the front step of a hospital. This was a boy, a thinking, petrified, innocent child being left out in a cold that not many of us could ever imagine.
Mike McQueary, I ask you, will you stand in front of a microphone and answer the question—what were you thinking? Your father told you to go to Paterno and the administration, It lends a lot of evidence to the kind of man you are knowing the man that raised you didn't tell you to contact law enforcement. Will you stand up for your father if I call him a coward to? What were you thinking, Mike? Do you have children? What if it was your son? I'm not sure if you're married, but think about that old scenario where the spouse walks in on their wife with another man? Would that have been enough to make you act? Or would you have just walked out of that room distraught as well? What would dad have told you to do there?
We all know Mike McQueary didn't walk in that locker room expecting to be faced with a situation where heroism was needed. That boy didn't need an out and out hero that night. Neither did the victims after him. What they needed was a leader. Hell, what they needed was a human being.
Instead, they got Mike McQueary.
SOURCE:
CBSnews.com
GRAND JURY REPORT—Sandusky Grand Jury Presentment
Yahoosports.com
Pete Lieber is a freelance writer and a Philadelphia sports enthusiast. Follow him on Twitter at @Lieber14.
PedOncoDoc
11-11-2011, 06:21
This whole ordeal truly disgusts me. Ironically, Sanduksy's book is titled, Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story (http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Jerry-Sandusky-Story/dp/1582613575/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1321013941&sr=1-1).
There are some interesting (read entertaining but sick) fake reviews on the link provided.
You can't find a punishment severe enough for Sandusky.
But to anyone who knew things weren't right...and there is always someone who turned a blind eye or failed to ask, they in some ways deserve a worse fate than Sandusky.
I wouldn't waste a lot of energy getting pissed about the shorteyes problem. Give the Dimlibs another decade, and it'll be perfectly acceptable to screw li'l fat boys.
They won't stop until normal morality is history; which they'll revise.
I wouldn't waste a lot of energy getting pissed about the shorteyes problem. Give the Dimlibs another decade, and it'll be perfectly acceptable to screw li'l fat boys.
They won't stop until normal morality is history; which they'll revise.
That was another thread... http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34853&highlight=DSM&page=5 and another article
'The Trojan Couch (http://www.narth.com/docs/TheTrojanCouchSatinover.pdf)
It would be interesting to see if Sandusky and/or Penn State donated to B4U-ACT (http://www.b4uact.org/), NAMBLA or any other Pro-Paraphilia organizations.
The Reaper
11-11-2011, 10:21
This will be happening in your military units in the near future.
Don't worry, your politically correct and indoctrinated leadership will tell you that it is perfectly acceptable behavior, regardless of your religious or moral beliefs.
And don't worry, sharia law and the prophet say that it is okay as well. :rolleyes:
TR
LongWire
11-11-2011, 18:46
You can't find a punishment severe enough for Sandusky.
Yeah we could damn sure try though..............
Point Blank Shotgun blast to the groin sounds about right...............
This guy is a predator of the worst order, and they allowed him to continue to use his connections to run an organization that gave him unfettered access to fresh victims.
Shame on all of them.
This poor guy paid the biggest price, looks like he got whacked. I'm sure there are more people involved in this, and are more powerful than Sandusky.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Gricar
You can't find a punishment severe enough for Sandusky.
But to anyone who knew things weren't right...and there is always someone who turned a blind eye or failed to ask, they in some ways deserve a worse fate than Sandusky.
How does a person who witnesses the son of a bitch in the act of raping a kid walk away? How do you not charge in and beat him senseless, or at the least pull him off, and then call the police?
How do you live with the fact that you walked away and basically did nothing? And don't tell me reporting it up your chain was enough.
They are all complicit and all deserve the same fate.
LongWire
11-12-2011, 14:31
This poor guy paid the biggest price, looks like he got whacked. I'm sure there are more people involved in this, and are more powerful than Sandusky.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Gricar
Are you seriously linking this guys disappearance to the events unfolding at Penn State? If you are, then what information do you have that would lead you to this assumption?
greenberetTFS
11-12-2011, 14:47
My son's comments on his FB......... :D He is the Director of Sales (University Press) at Penn State.......;)
Tony Sanfilippo
I wrote this to a friend earlier today, and I think it best describes my current feeling.
—It's so very ugly. Nothing happened to me or my kids and yet this has really shaken me. Spanier seems like such a great guy. I've met him several times. We published a book his wife edited. I really think he's done a great job managing this incredibly unwieldy institution and has done simply great things for the university.
And then there's this.
And god knows what the repercussions will be. Will donations and grants dry up? Will lots of people here lose their jobs? Will students avoid us? And does any of that even matter considering the lives that have been destroyed by Sandusky.
This is no longer a happy valley.
I didn't go to this school, I really only work here. But I love this place. City on a hill, and all that. Smart people all working for a common good. This failure has disappointed all of us, tarnished all of us. Shamed all of us.
I'll be fine, but my community will be feeling this for years to come.
(Tony's Dad) Big Teddy :munchin
How does a person who witnesses the son of a bitch in the act of raping a kid walk away? How do you not charge in and beat him senseless, or at the least pull him off, and then call the police?
How do you live with the fact that you walked away and basically did nothing? And don't tell me reporting it up your chain was enough.
They are all complicit and all deserve the same fate.
I couldn't agree more. I would have beaten him senseless. What a bunch of gutless losers, the lot of them.
Streck-Fu
11-12-2011, 18:41
I saw the statement from the acting President and found it lacking any real remorse or understand of what happened...it was a brief acknowledgement that what happened is tragic...and then it was all about taking care of Penn State.....I thought it was completely devoid real compassion and remorse.
It sounded like, "As soon as this blows over, we can go back to being PSU..."
How dare we be so judgmental…maybe he was looking for his soul mate in those showers…that POS.
If convicted, the POS Sandusky will hopefully shower with some very big boys who do not share his particular proclivities - with extreme prejudice.
Jerry Sandusky regrets showers with boys at Penn State
BBC online - 14 November 2011 Last updated at 22:53 ET
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15730317
Yeah we could damn sure try though..............
Point Blank Shotgun blast to the groin sounds about right...............
This guy is a predator of the worst order, and they allowed him to continue to use his connections to run an organization that gave him unfettered access to fresh victims.
Shame on all of them.
I was thinking his nutsack on a anvil and the victims and their parents being allowed to repeatedly strike them with a five pound brass hammer!
Some kids in one of the freshman intro to business class here at the school were going on about this and one made the comment, "they can't arrest Joe Pa, he's a superstar!"
The teacher, that also happens to be a basketball coach here retorted, "If that's the definition of a superstar, I definitely don't want to be part of that club."
The classroom fell silent...
The Reaper
11-17-2011, 18:00
I believe that a superstar is someone who is not only at the pinnacle of his game, but also is one who does the right thing, regardless of the personal cost to himself.
If the allegations are true, I do not see anyone at Penn State who is a superstar, or who looked after the needs of the most vulnerable, a child.
IMHO, anyone who knew about this, and failed to remove the child from the threat and then contact the police, should be in the cell next to Sandusky.
TR
craigepo
11-17-2011, 18:30
Are you seriously linking this guys disappearance to the events unfolding at Penn State? If you are, then what information do you have that would lead you to this assumption?
Post #14
Ill bring a little bit of my police experience into this discussion. Everyone knows when a Pedo is in their mix. Usually most people can spot them with in days. Let alone when it's been going on for 15+ years. This predator started a chain of events for every kid he molested. A chain of events that is going to destroy lives for generations.
They all assisted in the cover up because Football and their stupid University was more important to them. These aren't just crimes. These are the darkest and worst crimes a human can commit against another human. Just read the Grand Jury Report. It's very disturbing. I couldn't read pass victim number three.
Hope there is a special place in our universe for these people when their dead.
As much as it's not consolation or repair for the victims, chilly MOs usually become someone's prison bitch within minutes since the start of their new life as inmates.
On a different note, pedophilia really is one of the few things which make me want to suspend civilization in favour of more drastic approaches in the pursuit of a stoppage to the phenomenon. In a nutshell, it should be a no lawsuit matter: just a spoon driven through the POS's skull and some gasoline to dispose of the remains. :mad::mad:
Bloody f%&*ing hell, things like this make me wanna rip the bastard's heart out with my bare hands and then jostle it down his throat.
mark46th
11-18-2011, 19:41
I wonder if he was the only one at Penn State or the Second Mile Foundation involved in this?
1stindoor
11-19-2011, 13:36
I wonder if he was the only one at Penn State or the Second Mile Foundation involved in this?
Interesting question...sadly it's been asked about already
http://www.huntingtonnews.net/13264
Penn State's Sandusky Paid $500,000 by Boy’s Charity; “Pimping” Investigation Underway
Saturday, November 12, 2011 - 04:07Edited by Tony Rutherford from Multiple Reports
STATE COLLEGE, PA (HNN) – A former Penn State defensive coach accused of child rape by multiple victims received nearly $500,000 from the at-risk boys charity that he founded, according to CBS TV 21 reports. The station obtained copies of income tax returns from Second Mile which beginning in 2001 (the earliest year available) paid Jerry Sandusky approximately $50,000 annually as a “consultant.”
Sandusky founded the Second Mile Foundation in 1977. Tax records were not available prior to 2001, according to the Channel 21 investigation.
The initial allegation of sexual abuse of a child came in 1998. Sandusky reportedly admitted to “hugging” a ten year old boy while showering. The board of waited ten years before taking its first punitive action --- barring him from overnight camping trips. He “retired” in 2010
Now, radio reporter has told the New England Sports Network (NESN) that Second Mile and Sandusky are targets of an investigation that “pimping” of boys were occurring. Madden first broke a story in April 2011 which revealed the alleged Sandusky child rape cover-up.
http://www.ology.com/sports/penn-state-scandal-timeline-abuse-and-major-events-sandusky-case
craigepo
11-19-2011, 18:25
Essentially, child sex predators are considered to be a group that is not capable of rehabilitation.
This guy could well be monitored for life.
Saturation
11-19-2011, 19:25
This guy could well be monitored for life.
May it be some of the shortest monitoring time on record.....
Point Blank Shotgun blast to the groin sounds about right...............
I was thinking a motorized vehicle, a logging chain and a pot hole filled road crossed my mind. But considering that pedophilia is the gift that keeps on giving long after perp is worm dirt and that his victims will deal with the agony for the rest of their lives........anything you could do is just too quick and the Sandusky's of the world get off far too easy.
The answer might be surgical removal of his arms and genitalia.
Patriot007
11-19-2011, 21:04
I believe that a superstar is someone who is not only at the pinnacle of his game, but also is one who does the right thing, regardless of the personal cost to himself.
If the allegations are true, I do not see anyone at Penn State who is a superstar, or who looked after the needs of the most vulnerable, a child.
IMHO, anyone who knew about this, and failed to remove the child from the threat and then contact the police, should be in the cell next to Sandusky.
TR
Failure of leadership at multiple levels. For all the years that Penn State has allowed itself to be largely defined by the football team it will now suffer as a consequence of the same culture and values. I hope some way that the victims can achieve some level of peace from the justice to be delivered.
If Penn State wants to re(gain) honor it needs to change not only leadership, but the University's priorities and values. Fact- The Football Program brings in about 1% of all the University yearly revenue. The little known Medical Center in Hershey,PA 25%.
True Penn State Superstar and Hero: Lieutenant Michael P. Murphy
As a graduate I'm ashamed to say few if any students you ask at Penn State would know who Lt. Murphy is.
Oldrotorhead
11-19-2011, 21:55
As much as it's not consolation or repair for the victims, chilly MOs usually become someone's prison bitch within minutes since the start of their new life as inmates.
On a different note, pedophilia really is one of the few things which make me want to suspend civilization in favour of more drastic approaches in the pursuit of a stoppage to the phenomenon. In a nutshell, it should be a no lawsuit matter: just a spoon driven through the POS's skull and some gasoline to dispose of the remains. :mad::mad:
Bloody f%&*ing hell, things like this make me wanna rip the bastard's heart out with my bare hands and then jostle it down his throat.
Sadly most of these scum bags do not go to general population. They go to " special "sexual offender units to be "cured":mad:
ZonieDiver
11-19-2011, 21:58
And now, all of a sudden, Joe Paterno has been diagnosed with lung cancer - though "treatable"... oh, and by the way, he has transferred ownership of his house to his wife.
Sadly most of these scum bags do not go to general population. They go to " special "sexual offender units to be "cured":mad:
Not in Italy...
And, lo and behold, a "casual and most unfortunate" slip of the tongue quickly informs the population of the new addition to the prison's "First Wives Club"...
And the rest is history. Come one, come all !!!
Remington Raidr
11-20-2011, 03:05
True Penn State Superstar and Hero: Lieutenant Michael P. Murphy
As a graduate I'm ashamed to say few if any students you ask at Penn State would know who Lt. Murphy is.
We NEED good news.:confused:
And now, all of a sudden, Joe Paterno has been diagnosed with lung cancer - though "treatable"... oh, and by the way, he has transferred ownership of his house to his wife.
Paterno needs to go full old Man on everyone. Just walk around with ten bucks in change in his pocket babbling
BREAKING NEWS: Penn State REMOVES Joe Paterno statue from football stadium
Paterno was fired in November amid the child sex abuse case against his former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky
Report two weeks ago revealed that Paterno had a role in covering up child sex abuse allegations against Jerry Sandusky
Findings may lead to the end of Penn State football programme
Paterno died of lung cancer in January
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2177201/Penn-State-begins-construction-remove-Joe-Paterno-statue-Beaver-Stadium.html#ixzz21MGx7bvo
Like many I gave Joe the benefit of the doubt. I think Penn State has done the right thing here, this has got to dissapoint a lot of people.
ZonieDiver
07-22-2012, 08:58
Like many I gave Joe the benefit of the doubt. I think Penn State has done the right thing here, this has got to dissapoint a lot of people.
I don't give two hoots in hell about anyone who, at this time, is "disappointed" by the removal of a statue dedicated to a "humanitarian"! A person, it turns out, who aided, abetted, and then covered up this entire mess - for years.
Remove him from the Hall of Fame, and close down PSU's football program for at least as long as SMU received - hopefully longer.
I don't give two hoots in hell about anyone who, at this time, is "disappointed" by the removal of a statue dedicated to a "humanitarian"! A person, it turns out, who aided, abetted, and then covered up this entire mess - for years.
Remove him from the Hall of Fame, and close down PSU's football program for at least as long as SMU received - hopefully longer.
I hope I did not leave anyone with the impression that "I" care if anyone is dissapointed. It's in the hands of the NCAA now and I too believe that the football program needs to be shutdown.
entire post
You got it.
Allow the students currently on scholarship to finish or transfer without losing eligibility. Removing the statue would have been the first thing discussed in my lawsuit if I were one of the victims anyway...
ZonieDiver
07-22-2012, 12:17
I hope I did not leave anyone with the impression that "I" care if anyone is dissapointed. It's in the hands of the NCAA now and I too believe that the football program needs to be shutdown.
Nope, I (for one) didn't think you were saying that you were disappointed. I've driven across country lately and played radio roulette with local stations, and heard a lot more ESPN than I normally do. The PSU alumni and students whining about the injustice to "Joe P" and the current athletes sickens me.
Allow the students currently on scholarship to finish or transfer without losing eligibility. Removing the statue would have been the first thing discussed in my lawsuit if I were one of the victims anyway...
Exactly! If they want to stay and sit out several years (anything less than SMU got for serious recruiting violations, etc. is totally unacceptable. IF they wish to go to another program, allow them to go without having to wait the usual year.
I saw this a.m. that the statue was being taken down to be removed to a "secure location". I hope it is a prison cell next to Sandusky, and that it remains there forever.
Removing Paterno's statue is a sad but necessary measure, IMO. Nobody can take away what he did for the Penn State football program and the university, but his conspiring to conceal the despicable crimes of Jerry Sandusky is inexcusable and will forever taint his legacy. It is indeed very unfortunate that it had to end this way...
I hope it is a prison cell next to Sandusky, and that it remains there forever.
No I don't think that it's going to be put back up on university property again. I believe something to that effect will be specified in the settlement with the victims...
Joe Paterno's legacy ended when he did nothing to help protect children from a disgusting predetor. Removing the statute and the street names etc. is the only way to make an example of him now that he is dead. What about the assistant coach, the janitor, the administration, and probably others who also essentially looked the other way to save their own jobs? Sandusky's wife? She didn't know, or even suspect? Really?
Little kids sacrificed at the altar of allmighty Penn State football.
I think a 10yr ban and re-establshment of the program at the Division II level after that might be acceptable.
Hope that Sandusky has fun in prison before it gets worse and he rots in hell. However, he might just run into some collegues from Penn State when he gets there.
greenberetTFS
07-23-2012, 11:40
My son Tony works for Penn State University Press,his position is Director of Sales.......:( He has said that the people in the town are sadden by all this negative information being discovered,but they realize it's necessary and needed to come out......:( No one in his department had any idea what was going on and were just as surprised as everyone else when it was announced......... :( It truly is a sad time for all the folks that live there.........:(
Big Teddy
Current and future students will suffer.
Current and future football players will suffer.
Employees who are good to their families and a blessing to their communities will suffer.
The pride of those who grauated 30 years ago will suffer.
Yep, THAT will teach Sandusky a lesson
Current and future students will suffer.
Current and future football players will suffer.
Employees who are good to their families and a blessing to their communities will suffer.
The pride of those who grauated 30 years ago will suffer.
Yep, THAT will teach Sandusky a lesson
Yeah? And the young men that were repeatedly RAPED for years will suffer for the rest of their lives.
The punishments are meant to teach the entire system and those involved that there are severe consequences for your actions...or inactions. Or allowing some sick son of a bitch to stay at the university and continue his sick behavior.
I had a heated discussion today with a coworker who said what does this resolve, Paterno is dead. Paterno "reported" it then did nothing. Others knew what happened and did nothing, they are complicit. Sandusky was there for YEARS afterward. Do you really think that Paterno or anyone else "in the know" did enough? Bullshit.
I guarandamntee you if I reported something like this I wouldn't rest until the SOB was in jail.
Streck-Fu
07-23-2012, 18:48
Yep, THAT will teach Sandusky a lesson
If anything is obvious now, it was far bigger than just Sandusky and was a systemic problem. The decision was made to not go to the authorities to protect the football program and the university.
I think the punishment is necessary (and did not go far enough) to teach all other schools that find themselves in a future situation that they can not simply fire a coach or AD and then say, "We cleaned house and are good to Go! Let's play some football!"
That coach and that administration chose the welfare of their school over the children. That is a heinous warping of any moral compass and had to be dealt with.
And the sad part is that during this investigation and trial, boosters gave record donations of over $250M by a all time high of 190,000 individuals....That is pretty disturbing....
Yeah? And the young men that were repeatedly RAPED for years will suffer for the rest of their lives.
The punishments are meant to teach the entire system and those involved that there are severe consequences for your actions...or inactions. Or allowing some sick son of a bitch to stay at the university and continue his sick behavior.
I had a heated discussion today with a coworker who said what does this resolve, Paterno is dead. Paterno "reported" it then did nothing. Others knew what happened and did nothing, they are complicit. Sandusky was there for YEARS afterward. Do you really think that Paterno or anyone else "in the know" did enough? Bullshit.
I guarandamntee you if I reported something like this I wouldn't rest until the SOB was in jail.
Very well put! Penn State is gonna play football this year, the NCAA lacked the fortitude to really make them suffer. Sports are vastly overated in the sheme of things, I too enjoy college sports but I think they are getting out of control. Ohio State, Southern Cal etc. etc. etc. this was all about image.
Current and future students will suffer.
Current and future football players will suffer.
Employees who are good to their families and a blessing to their communities will suffer.
The pride of those who graduated 30 years ago will suffer.
Yep, THAT will teach Sandusky a lesson.You point out what I've long felt is a problematic aspect of NCAA sanctions. As often as not, sanctions--while necessary and appropriate--often amount to closing the barn door after the fact and they get a lot of people caught up in a net they did nothing to weave.
Yeah? Does the uncertainty that Big Teddy's son and his colleges face in the near, intermediate, and long term help the rehabilitation of Sandusky's victims?
Current and future students will suffer.
Current and future football players will suffer.
Employees who are good to their families and a blessing to their communities will suffer.
The pride of those who grauated 30 years ago will suffer.
Yep, THAT will teach Sandusky a lesson
Yes.
Yes
Yes
Yes.
Who gives a shit.
No need to "teach Sandusky a lesson." Its not important that he learns anything or is "rehabilitated". However, living in fear of being raped or killed in prison followed by him being raped or killed sometime before he dies there, sounds pretty fitting to me.
So what was your point anyway?
You point out what I've long felt is a problematic aspect of NCAA sanctions. As often as not, sanctions--while necessary and appropriate--often amount to closing the barn door after the fact and they get a lot of people caught up in a net they did nothing to weave.
Does the uncertainty that Big Teddy's son and his colleges face in the near, intermediate, and long term help the rehabilitation of Sandusky's victims?
So what do you want the NCAA to do? Sanction people before they do something wrong? How about a version of Decimation. Should some other school in Penn State's conference or Div I football schools in general be sanctioned along with them?
No, the feelings of the individuals that Big Teddy mentioned have no impact. Form some "vengence" against the university may help. What would that entail... financial impact and impact to the prestige and mystique of Penn State football.
The NCAA in it's santions took a middle of the road stance. Not enough in my opinion. But then again, it's a grey area. If i were the hot-dog vendor at the stadium, I'd be thankful.
My viewpoint is coming from the perspective that the punishment is not enough to change the CULTURE of the University. Unless the civil lawsuit from the victims takes another bite, football will still be king at Penn State and 7-10 years from now things will be as they were before.
So what do you want the NCAA to do?I'd prefer policies that motivated academic institutions to invest more effort in preventing the abuse of power. Currently, many coaches receive additional compensation if their teams do well on the field of play. Could similar measures be put in place for graduation rates? Could compensation be deferred for a number of years pending regularly scheduled audits?
The NCAA in it's santions took a middle of the road stance. Not enough in my opinion. But then again, it's a grey area. If i were the hot-dog vendor at the stadium, I'd be thankful.
My viewpoint is coming from the perspective that the punishment is not enough to change the CULTURE of the University. Unless the civil lawsuit from the victims takes another bite, football will still be king at Penn State and 7-10 years from now things will be as they were before.I am ambivalent. A part of me would not have minded one bit if the NCAA sanctions ended football at Penn State temporarily. I will have a "wait and see" approach to Penn State's ability to change its own culture.
Yet, I'm also thinking about the people at the bottom of the food chain -- employees and undergraduates -- who will suffer because of the imposed punishment. (Someone is going to pay that $60 million fine and I doubt that it will be The Powers That Be at Penn State.)
You point out what I've long felt is a problematic aspect of NCAA sanctions. As often as not, sanctions--while necessary and appropriate--often amount to closing the barn door after the fact and they get a lot of people caught up in a net they did nothing to weave.
Does the uncertainty that Big Teddy's son and his colleges face in the near, intermediate, and long term help the rehabilitation of Sandusky's victims?
Besides being too late, it reminds me of kickin in the car door because one of your tires went flat. Would we turn off electricity for the students and faculty if the heinous acts had been performed by the maintenance department. Had it been some professors from the English department, would all subjects have to be taught in Thai for the next 5 years.
Since when is the NCAA involved in policing sexual abuse, and WTF does playing football have to do with it?
I think the punishment is necessary (and did not go far enough) to teach all other schools that find themselves in a future situation that they can not simply fire a coach or AD and then say, "We cleaned house and are good to Go! Let's play some football!"
Reminds me more of a Clint Eastwood flick I watched last night. If the bandito didn't surrender, the arrangement was to pull 5 innocent people out of the church in their village every few hours and shoot them until the matter was resolved.
"And if just one of them leers at a white woman, we'll burn the whole dang village down?" I don't recall the name of the organization.
(Did the "dang" give it away?)
The punishments are meant to teach the entire system and those involved that there are severe consequences for your actions...or inactions. Or allowing some sick son of a bitch to stay at the university and continue his sick behavior.
I guess I've been unable to find the system. I can go to a campus, see buildings, trees, carpenters, electricians, med students, jocks, pencil pushers, professors, floor polishers, and lawnmower operators. Who is "the system"?
With the dearth of parents turning their children in for criminal acts, we identify a "they", "the system", "the city", "the powers that be" as being especially resposible for dealing with the hard, messy parts of life. Whether we blame "society" or "the man", I see it as a cop-out
I see "the system" as 44,000 individuals at Penn State doing whatever gets them a paycheck. We are going to teach them that, if someone you don't work with, or don't even know does something heinous, we're going to rain sh^t on you too. That will teach them.... "the system", I mean.
I agree with Sigaba, above. Naturally, then, Tea Party reprogramming will begin at 6 a.m. I better make coffee................
... Naturally, then, Tea Party reprogramming will begin at 6 a.m. I better make coffee................
How is the Tea Party relevent in this discussion? I can't see the connection. Please explain.
Since when is the NCAA involved in policing sexual abuse, and WTF does playing football have to do with it? FWIW, the 2011-2012 NCAA Division I manual is available here (http://ncaapublications.com/p-4224-2011-2012-ncaa-division-i-manual.aspx), with a PDF version available there (http://www.ncaapublications.com/DownloadPublication.aspx?download=D112.pdf). While certain criminal acts are stated specifically, others are not.
FWIW, part two, an editorial in the on-line edition of Sports Illustrated, available here (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/stewart_mandel/07/23/penn-state-ncaa-sanctions/index.html), raises points similar to Plato's.
I guess I've been unable to find the system. I can go to a campus, see buildings, trees, carpenters, electricians, med students, jocks, pencil pushers, professors, floor polishers, and lawnmower operators. Who is "the system"?
With the dearth of parents turning their children in for criminal acts, we identify a "they", "the system", "the city", "the powers that be" as being especially resposible for dealing with the hard, messy parts of life. Whether we blame "society" or "the man", I see it as a cop-out
I see "the system" as 44,000 individuals at Penn State doing whatever gets them a paycheck. We are going to teach them that, if someone you don't work with, or don't even know does something heinous, we're going to rain sh^t on you too. That will teach them.... "the system", I mean.Your comments are reminiscent of the late Robert B. Parker's criticisms of the Ivory Tower.
Does the uncertainty that Big Teddy's son and his colleges face in the near, intermediate, and long term help the rehabilitation of Sandusky's victims?
What ABC 123 said.
B
I guess I've been unable to find the system. I
I agree with Sigaba, above. Naturally, then, Tea Party reprogramming will begin at 6 a.m. I better make coffee................
Don't be obtuse.
Good for you. And the Tea Party has nothing to do with it. Ridiculous comment.
How is the Tea Party relevent in this discussion? I can't see the connection. Please explain.
Certainly. While I am not qualified to "define" others, Sigaba seems to be less conservative than I am, even close to being "a liberal". We seem to agree in some aspects to the shotgun approach to Penn State. I thought the "am I drifting left" reference was fairly clear.
So what was your point anyway?
Somewhere in that rage/vengeance/justice confusion there's the possibility of dealing with the little bully who beat up your son. Then there's the alternative of walking into the little bully's classroom and spraying everyone wall to wall. Great "anger relief" perhaps, but it's not justice.
Certainly. While I am not qualified to "define" others, Sigaba seems to be less conservative than I am, even close to being "a liberal". We seem to agree in some aspects to the shotgun approach to Penn State. I thought the "am I drifting left" reference was fairly clear. As you and I have disagreed on just about everything else until this discussion of Penn State, I thought your reference to the Tea Party was clearly tongue in cheek.
(I myself checked the weather forecast for raining frogs and freezing infernal landscapes.)
Don't be obtuse.
Good for you. And the Tea Party has nothing to do with it. Ridiculous comment.
I wasn't trying to be obtuse. In fact, I was looking for more clarity. I can hear of an atrocity that makes me throw a book at the TV, punch a hole in the wall, go to my front porch and scream out "Damn Society!".
But, society includes the Red Cross, volunteer soup kitchen workers, and people who sacrifice nearly everything for their families.
Angry people who want to teach "the system" a lesson are walking into businesses, and schools, and now movie theaters.
Perhaps it's emotionally satisfying, but it's wrong.
Certainly. While I am not qualified to "define" others, Sigaba seems to be less conservative than I am, even close to being "a liberal". We seem to agree in some aspects to the shotgun approach to Penn State. I thought the "am I drifting left" reference was fairly clear.
Somewhere in that rage/vengeance/justice confusion there's the possibility of dealing with the little bully who beat up your son. Then there's the alternative of walking into the little bully's classroom and spraying everyone wall to wall. Great "anger relief" perhaps, but it's not justice.
This isn't about Sigba. This is about you. You mentioned th Tea Party. Explain how their platform relates to this subject and your comments. I'm still waiting.
If we have people from the janitor, to an assitant coach, to the head coach to the Athletic Director to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY all involved in sweeping under the rug HOMOSEXUAL RAPE of CHILDREN to avoid embarrassing the football program and the University and interrupting the stream of alumni donations I think that to be like a conspiracy..and so the whole will invariably feel the pain.
Certainly. While I am not qualified to "define" others, Sigaba seems to be less conservative than I am, even close to being "a liberal". We seem to agree in some aspects to the shotgun approach to Penn State. I thought the "am I drifting left" reference was fairly clear.
Somewhere in that rage/vengeance/justice confusion there's the possibility of dealing with the little bully who beat up your son. Then there's the alternative of walking into the little bully's classroom and spraying everyone wall to wall. Great "anger relief" perhaps, but it's not justice.
The fact that you are equating a school bully with the rape of children makes my blood boil. I wonder how you would feel if you were the parent of one of these children, or one of the children themselves. If you discovered how many folks knew what was going on, but CHOSE to do nothing to protect something as stupid as a FOOTBALL program.
I love college sports as much as the next guy, but it has caused many schools to violate too many ethics in order to come out on top. Student athletes are turned into less than minimum wage workers for a system that makes millions off their hard work every year.
It is time to get rid of sports in college, in my opinion. If college is the recruiting ground for professional sports, then make the teams "farm" teams for said professional teams. Pay the students a decent wage, and if they decide they want to go to school to get an education, so be it. If they don't, well, they are getting paid to do a job.If they can't look at the 500 meter target and realize they aren't going to be an athlete forever and may need an education to fall back on, no one can save you from being stupid.
The fact that you are equating a school bully with the rape of children makes my blood boil. I wonder how you would feel if you were the parent of one of these children, or one of the children themselves. If you discovered how many folks knew what was going on, but CHOSE to do nothing to protect something as stupid as a FOOTBALL program.
I love college sports as much as the next guy, but it has caused many schools to violate too many ethics in order to come out on top. Student athletes are turned into less than minimum wage workers for a system that makes millions off their hard work every year.
It is time to get rid of sports in college, in my opinion. If college is the recruiting ground for professional sports, then make the teams "farm" teams for said professional teams. Pay the students a decent wage, and if they decide they want to go to school to get an education, so be it. If they don't, well, they are getting paid to do a job.If they can't look at the 500 meter target and realize they aren't going to be an athlete forever and may need an education to fall back on, no one can save you from being stupid.
I can't go THAT far, personally. Sports are still a vehicle for many who don't go pro to get a college education. That's the story of my family. My dad was the youngest of 9 kids. Grew up poor. Only one of the family to go to college...on a football scholarship. Also, the horror stories aside, competitive sport can do much to develop a young man/woman. However your points are valid and I'll agree that some changes/reform might be in order. I just don't know what that would be at the moment.
I wasn't trying to be obtuse. In fact, I was looking for more clarity. I can hear of an atrocity that makes me throw a book at the TV, punch a hole in the wall, go to my front porch and scream out "Damn Society!".
But, society includes the Red Cross, volunteer soup kitchen workers, and people who sacrifice nearly everything for their families.
Angry people who want to teach "the system" a lesson are walking into businesses, and schools, and now movie theaters.
Perhaps it's emotionally satisfying, but it's wrong.
We're not talking about society. We're talking about several people who knew these kids were being RAPED and chose to turn a blind eye to protect the university and a football program. AND worse of all, to protect the guilty SOB.
Remember when you were in school and one kid caused all kinds of trouble so the whole class got punished? Yeah...it wasn't fair. But no one ever said life was fair.
Remember when you were in school and one kid caused all kinds of trouble so the whole class got punished? Yeah...it wasn't fair. But no one ever said life was fair.So then, given the logic of "collective accountability," it would be all right if, come November, the GOP wins big and proceeds to punish all of Illinois--because the state was the springboard for the forty fourth president's political career and some of its residents turned a blind eye to his lack of qualifications when he ran for the U.S. Senate?
So then, given the logic of "collective accountability," it would be all right if, come November, the GOP wins big and proceeds to punish all of Illinois--because the state was the springboard for the forty fourth president's political career and some of its residents turned a blind eye to his lack of qualifications when he ran for the U.S. Senate?
Yes.
Pat
So then, given the logic of "collective accountability," it would be all right if, come November, the GOP wins big and proceeds to punish all of Illinois--because the state was the springboard for the forty fourth president's political career and some of its residents turned a blind eye to his lack of qualifications when he ran for the U.S. Senate?
I'm all for it.
The fact that you are equating a school bully with the rape of children makes my blood boil.
I think that we both know that I didn't say they were "equal". I spoke to the "spray everyone in the area" concept of handling one's rage. Rage not only does not equal justice but the rage of those around them is one the major hurdles to someone who has been abused. It adds to the "damaged goods". Often children don't want to deal with the intensity of it, and it prevents them from telling, so I, personally, have avoided it.
That's not a slam against you. You appear to be a lovely person. It's just not a helpful reaction, no matter how right it feells.
I wonder how you would feel if you were the parent of one of these children, or one of the children themselves.
"one of the children themselve"s Does it have to be Penn State? Does it have to be football related? If not..............
I was befriended by a sweet gentle psychologist for a time. The sexual abuse that constituted her childhood made mine look like a pimple sitting beside a 40 pound tumor. But, since the larger part of my "emotional baggage" was from not keeping my kid sister safe, I needed to help kids. And, she really needed volunteers, but if she manipulated me, I can't resent it even now. (Yep, love happened)
Her "specialty" was a Last Chance House for teen boys. Turns out some of those big bad Police are pretty good people and can often recognize kids who still may be salvaged. Was Marie good? If you look at the percentage of kids who left the first time they could get out the door, you don't need to use all your ten fingers. And, I felt *great*. I could talk to them on a BTDT basis,except for the lack of felonies. I was Mr. Good Citizen, therefore, we were not as damaged/screwed up as everyone (except Marie), seemed to want to tell them.
Nope, I'm not a great person for doing it. I balanced out the imaginary ledger for my failures from the past. I needed it, but I'm going to feel good anyway.
About four years after I got involved with "The House", she stepped out of the shower, wrapped a towel around her head, sat down in the chair in her meager (minimum wage) apartment, and her heart simply stopped beating.
Leaving out the emotional side, I lost my professional guidance (amateurs are encouraged not to take an abused person or the actions themselves apart unless they KNOW how to put both back together). I couldn't mentally connect to the other professionals, and I lost my "Give a Damn" about most things. With her unique ability to appeal for funds gone, even The House was lost.
If you discovered how many folks knew what was going on, but CHOSE to do nothing to protect something as stupid as a FOOTBALL program.
Most often family members know, but convince themselves that they don't. They want to protect the family reputation, the family business, or most often just don't want the emotional strain of dealing with it or working through it. I didn't have to google that. That's from direct confrontations between older teenage males and their "we raised you well, how did you go wrong" families.
Watch now, how those pieces of evidence come out from relatives of the victims while they tap-dance between "it's obvious" and "I had no way of knowing".
During my four years, I dealt with about a hundred angry abused kids as primary or secondary contact, and maybe a dozen adults who found out that the needed help was free. I've used the approach of moving a "vengeance situation" situation to a situation less emotional for sexual abuse victims who had become very angry at everyone and very violent in their actions , with a talented psychologist advising that it seemed to work with the young men who mattered. Sorta "take this situation and move it over here"................
So, I won't ask your forgiveness for my words.
But I digress.
You were going to explain child sexual abuse to me, how horrible it is, and it's aftermath.
Go ahead.
This isn't about Sigba. This is about you. You mentioned th Tea Party. Explain how their platform relates to this subject and your comments. I'm still waiting.
I doubt that you're waiting for a logical link between the Tea Party (individual responsibility vs. blame society) and Penn State. It relates no better than powerpoint to cloning. It doesn't explain the link between Army NCO's and the manufacture of olympic garb in China.
I think you recognize an "aside" comment.
This is the point in your anger, perhaps, where you grab various living things, stickpin them to cardboard and watch them squiggle about. I just don't feel particularly squiggly right now. Some other time, maybe.
So then, given the logic of "collective accountability," it would be all right if, come November, the GOP wins big and proceeds to punish all of Illinois--because the state was the springboard for the forty fourth president's political career and some of its residents turned a blind eye to his lack of qualifications when he ran for the U.S. Senate?
OK, this is twice.
I agree with what I know you mean.
Partly because you're right.
Partly because you used words of less than ten syllables so I could get to the above conclusion. ;)
I'll PM you when I see the first of the frogs
Where to even start. Plato, obviously you have had experiences in your life that shape how you view this situation. For that, all I can say is that no child should ever have to experience sexual abuse. No where in my previous statement did I imply I needed to teach anyone anything about child sexual abuse, as I have no basis to do so, other than that of a parent. If anyone EVER touched one of my children in that manner I would be in prison for murder.
The mere fact that any child has to go through something like this is appaulling to me. The fact that it was covered up by so many for something as inconsequential as a school's football legacy is even more so. So you don't agree with the ruling handed down by the NCAA. But you have never stated what you do think is appropriate. How do you make an example so that something like this doesn't happen again? How do you instill in a school's leadership, with the alumni, and all hose so worried about legacy to the detriment of children. Money and influence seem to be the only thing these people understand, so why not hit them where it hurts the most.
If Penn is truly sorry for what has hapoened, they will not make the problem worse by hurting the employees that were not a part if this. They may have to forgo paying their current staff in the football program million dollar salaries. They may have to scale in the salaries of administrators. It is time for Penn to decide what their real legacy is going to be: an institution of higher learning, who has learned from their MANY mistakes, or one that decides just because they got caught doesn't mean they have to make any changes other than cosmetic and hope after their 4 year forced hiatus things go back to football being their main focus.
Afchic, given that reasoning, would you agree we should stop enlisting folks in the USAF for the next 10 years and put everyone currently in on stop-loss for that same period, since sexual abuse is a horrible thing and we need to send a message across DOD that it anyone doing it will jepordize the careers and lives of thousands upon thousands of others? Might as well just close the USAFA as well, since a handful of those kids can't seem to avoid the dangers of sex abuse, drug dealing and cheating.
Of course, the above suggestion is completely out of proportion to the crimes, and should not even make the COA list. However, it touches upon the point I believe Plato is trying to make (and, incidentally, I feel is partially supported by ABC's story about his father), which I take as punishing the perpetrators with minimal collateral damage. What if all this took place when ABC's dad was trying to get into college? Might he never have had that opportunity because a handful of jackasses that have been clearly identified caused an entire program to be shut down? Would he have been able to get into another school? If not, what would the long-term repercussions have been? No one can say with any certainty, but the point remains that if you can positively ID those that have done something wrong, you punish them and not anyone and everyone ever associated with them.
Otherwise, I agree with your suggestion to get rid of college sports althogether. College is for education, sports is a distraction--you want to play sports, let the professional teams handle the time and effort of developing good players. Yes, some folks won't get into college otherwise; oh well, the overall corruption that intercollegiate sports creates won't be missed and maybe the schools will redirect their focus and funding on academic scholarships for those with the educational aptitude but lacking the money to attend.
Last I checked, we're not deliberately killing the entire extended families of identified terrorists in order to send a message that we're serious about stopping attacks on the Afghani government and its citizenry.
If anyone EVER touched one of my children in that manner I would be in prison for murder.
But, you would never say that in front of your kids, or allow anyone else to. They'll connect those dots to "If I tell, then things will be really bad". Many abuse victims *would* have told except for not wanting to live through a second emotional volcano.
But you have never stated what you do think is appropriate. How do you make an example so that something like this doesn't happen again? How do you instill in a school's leadership, with the alumni, and all hose so worried about legacy to the detriment of children. Money and influence seem to be the only thing these people understand, so why not hit them where it hurts the most.
"How do you make an example sufficient to stop it?"
Change basic human nature, starting many generations back.
Similar to the way we stopped illegal drugs, murder, and other felonies. We won't. We've made hundreds of thousands of examples, sending child molesters to jail. Organizations, businesses, and families have been sued.
Nobody is going to right this wrong after the fact. This isn't a "football reaction" to child abuse, nor is it a "school" or money reaction. "I don't need this problem on top of everything else" is a frequent human reaction." That often includes parents and other relatives.
If the perp was "Uncle Mortimer" it would split the family into do/don't believe, and even some of those who DO believe will resent the child. (I know that's despicable, but that's human psychology). The local McDonald's owner would want a similar situation to go away. He's going to balance losing customers and his ability to support his family against getting someone punished. How many people are really ready to damage self and family for justice? It's not about football or coaches.
But, just like a good belch relieves pressure, smashing football players and coaching staff at Penn relieves the anger we all have toward child abusers, and once this amorphous entity "Penn" is punished, we'll feel better. "There, all fixed."
We need to focus on the victim instead of the perp. We need to get the "damaged" crap out of the newspapers and kick the authors who write many of the books. One of the greatest impediments to healing from abuse is the self-appointed experts who wish to go on and on about how "damaged" a person is when sexually abused. (Of course, we can't censor them.... that's in the "I wish" category). The societal reaction to child abuse greatly increases the effects of the act itself.
And frankly, when the abused child becomes an adult, we've nudged them toward being the next generation of child abusers.
If Penn is truly sorry for what has hapoened, they will not make the problem worse by hurting the employees that were not a part if this. They may have to forgo paying their current staff in the football program million dollar salaries. They may have to scale in the salaries of administrators. It is time for Penn to decide what their real legacy is going to be: an institution of higher learning, who has learned from their MANY mistakes, or one that decides just because they got caught doesn't mean they have to make any changes other than cosmetic and hope after their 4 year forced hiatus things go back to football being their main focus.
The school probably won't smear or injure it's employees. The press has, will continue, and we'll all join in the chorus.
Taking a note from Razor, do we take away the DFCs and campaign medals across and deal with the "Air Force" as some entity? Or do we expected some share of bad people, lots of good innocent people, and some "Oh shit, I don't need this" leaders? Let's just punish the crimnals and keep our eyes open for next time.
And, if we someday discover that the President of the NCAA beats his wife savagely, do we undo the last 10 years of sanctions?
"Kill em all, let God sort em out" on the wall of a TOC in Vietnam. Though I would never think of doing it, Yes, it did sometimes feel good to say it.
An interesting article on AT (http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/07/the_climategate_and_jerry_sandusky_scandals_a_comm on_thread.html) with regards to Penn State's president at the time the incidents occurred.
MOO: I too had mixed feelings about the NCAA's reaction and penalties, along the lines of previous posters. In reading the article, it definitely reinforces Freeh's charges that the indifference and disregard ran all the way to the top, but in a more insidious fashion that Freeh's report. On the other hand, the author is a Penn State alumnus, and may have an ax to grind. Take it as you will.
My .002
DIYPatriot
09-08-2014, 14:53
Maybe if Ray Rice (http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/reported-footage-of-ray-rice-punching-fiancee-in-elevator-surfaces-090814?cmpid=msn%3Afoxsports%3Aansfox11>1=msnans) holds his breath and rubs elbows with the proper senator (http://onwardstate.com/2013/12/06/sen-mitchell-praises-penn-state-in-fifth-quarterly-report/), his indefinite ban with the NFL will be reduced to nothing more than time served, which seems to be good enough for the abuses at Penn State (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2191521-ncaa-announces-immediate-end-of-penn-states-bowl-ban-scholarship-limits?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial&hpt=hp_t2).
Following our briefing with Senator Mitchell, the (Council of Presidents and Chancellors) reached consensus agreement to support his latest recommendation and also agreed to restore the school's eligibility for the Big Ten Football Championship Game, which ran concurrently with the NCAA postseason bowl ban" said COPC Chair and Iowa President Sally Mason in the release. "We support the NCAA announcement acting on that recommendation, thank Senator Mitchell for his dedicated service and appreciate Penn State's ongoing commitment to improvement.
Continued (http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/09/08/ncaa-lifts-penn-state-bowl-ban/)