View Full Version : Are we too clean?
Was walking through the living room while the wife had on ABC Good Morning.
They were doing the segment with their Doctor vs Dr Oz about arsenic in apple juice.
ABCs doctor was pointing out that humans ingest small amounts of arsenic from just about everything. I forget which disease it was but wasn't something from the 50s and 60s traced back to something from dirt and dust - the lack of which caused the disease?
We are becoming more and more "clean". Is this removing the natural immune properties we were created/evolved with for healthy living?
I believe we are.
Kids these days don't get out and play in the dirt and pollen like we did so they don't build up a resistance to things. When I was a kid I'd go outside in the morning and I didn't come in until was either time to eat or it got dark. When I got a little older I didn't come in until just before going to bed.
greenberetTFS
09-16-2011, 06:13
Was walking through the living room while the wife had on ABC Good Morning.
They were doing the segment with their Doctor vs Dr Oz about arsenic in apple juice.
ABCs doctor was pointing out that humans ingest small amounts of arsenic from just about everything. I forget which disease it was but wasn't something from the 50s and 60s traced back to something from dirt and dust - the lack of which caused the disease?
We are becoming more and more "clean". Is this removing the natural immune properties we were created/evolved with for healthy living?
Isn't that how "organic" got started?.......:D:D:D
Big Teddy :munchin
Probably. Some autoimmune diseases are helped by deliberately infecting the person with parasitic worms, which somehow calm the immune system. Nature is smarter than you are, we didnt evolve in a vacuum.
I believe we are.
Kids these days don't get out and play in the dirt and pollen like we did so they don't build up a resistance to things. When I was a kid I'd go outside in the morning and I didn't come in until was either time to eat or it got dark. When I got a little older I didn't come in until just before going to bed.
We were outside so much,, I can remember when my mom would lock me out overnight.... :D
Considering the over use and misuse of antibiotics makes you more susceptible to infection, I wonder how the near phobic use of antibacterial soaps plays into the picture.
And why I say that, most places (Lowes, HD, Banks, School, Homes, Etc.) I visit have a dispenser of antibacterial soap in close proximity of where I am. I find them nearly every check out or Teller window. Jiffy Lube has one on the counter. Every public toilet facility has it. More and more I see vehicles with a soap dispenser in the cup holders.
It may be too much of a good thing.
When I was a kid I'd go outside in the morning and I didn't come in until was either time to eat or it got dark.
Same here and I was blocks away from home, generally playing unsupervised in the woods. Today you might get turned into to CPS for Child Endangerment.
Badger52
09-16-2011, 07:28
I believe we are.
Kids these days don't get out and play in the dirt and pollen like we did so they don't build up a resistance to things. When I was a kid I'd go outside in the morning and I didn't come in until was either time to eat or it got dark. When I got a little older I didn't come in until just before going to bed.That is a very astute observation. Kids have been exposed in classroom environments to other kids' ailments for a long time; but there seems to me, in watching gk's growup, that they have extremely little tolerance for what I'd consider exposure to normal stuff. Healthy (ostensibly) lovely kids, but when asking about them all too often my retort has to be, "what d'ya mean they're home sick from school again...? with WHAT?"
Flash to the Gosselins with a chance to camp on an Alaska beach with Sarah Palin & mom obsessing over lack of hand-sanitizer.
I tell 'em go get dirty, get scraped up, we can fix boo-boos later, have fun.
Damn.
I may not be as....."aged" as some of the members here, but my ex-wife is a perfect example of causing de-evolution. Keeps my kids squeaky clean all the time. My son has asthma and my daughter has a weak immune system. None of it came about until I was out of the picture. So to help them out I take them to the woods and make them get dirty and roughed up when I see them. Makes for interesting phone calls when they go home.:D
Considering the over use and misuse of antibiotics makes you more susceptible to infection, I wonder how the near phobic use of antibacterial soaps plays into the picture.
And why I say that, most places (Lowes, HD, Banks, School, Homes, Etc.) I visit have a dispenser of antibacterial soap in close proximity of where I am. I find them nearly every check out or Teller window. Jiffy Lube has one on the counter. Every public toilet facility has it. More and more I see vehicles with a soap dispenser in the cup holders.
It may be too much of a good thing.
When I was last in school, I had to take a mandatory nutrition class. Many of the things in the class were very....hippie I suppose would be the best word, so I learned to take most it with a grain of salt. However, one of the things we covered actually made some sense and it was the overuse of antibacterial soap and hand sanitizer. The premise being that while yes, it does kill the bad germs, it kills all the good germs as well. There was no antibacterial soap in the school or at least that's what they told us anyway.
When I was last in school, I had to take a mandatory nutrition class. Many of the things in the class were very....hippie I suppose would be the best word, so I learned to take most it with a grain of salt. However, one of the things we covered actually made some sense and it was the overuse of antibacterial soap and hand sanitizer. The premise being that while yes, it does kill the bad germs, it kills all the good germs as well. There was no antibacterial soap in the school or at least that's what they told us anyway.
But the reason they didn't want you killing the good germs was because they had feelings too ;)
But the reason they didn't want you killing the good germs was because they had feelings too ;)
Oh you just don't even know how true that is. I think I was one of only maybe three people in the whole school who wasn't vegetarian or vegan (nothing against anyone who is). There was a burger king next door and I would frequently get lunch from there. No one would sit near me or my cheeseburgers.
Back on topic. There is a 16 year age gap between the oldest of my younger siblings and me (my daddy started over in his 40's) and oddly enough even though they are both forced outside often and love being dirty, they both also have way more allergies, immune issues and medications than I did.
ReconDoc242
09-16-2011, 14:34
This is a good discussion. Cleanliness does prevent disease in the large spectrum of things, but as anything else taken to an extreme excessive cleanliness has negative reprocautions. As we remove natural microfloura/beneficial bacteria from the surface of our skins, it allows pathonegenic bacteria to grow. I assume thats why there's been a rise in illness with people who suffer from ocd and other similiar conditions.
PedOncoDoc
09-16-2011, 16:15
This is a good discussion. Cleanliness does prevent disease in the large spectrum of things, but as anything else taken to an extreme excessive cleanliness has negative reprocautions. As we remove natural microfloura/beneficial bacteria from the surface of our skins, it allows pathonegenic bacteria to grow. I assume thats why there's been a rise in illness with people who suffer from ocd and other similiar conditions.
On top of the changes in our microfluora on the skin there are changes in the gut as well, especially with the liberal prescribing of antibiotics.
Do not forget the importance of the development of the immune system through infancy and the early childhood years. I personally think this is, in part, why children go through a phase where they explore everything by putting it in their mouths - this would be evolutionarily beneficial for increased antigen exposure in those who had properly functioning immune systems.
mark46th
09-16-2011, 19:24
People ask me why I go to Mexico so often. I explain to them that after 2 years in Southeast Asia, I have to go down there to get regular...
I don't recall bacteria being the primary cause of OCD. It has been linked but I think the most common cause culprit is the lack of serotonin ( I am not sure about the common portion of my statement. That's why serotonin reuptake inhibitors are prescribed as treatment.
I believe we are.
Kids these days don't get out and play in the dirt and pollen like we did so they don't build up a resistance to things. When I was a kid I'd go outside in the morning and I didn't come in until was either time to eat or it got dark. When I got a little older I didn't come in until just before going to bed.
Same here. We were out until supper and then until the streetlights came on. We rarely were inside period. Unless we were grounded. :D And if we watched 4 hours of TV per week that was a lot.
I think there is clean and then there is excessive/obsessive clean...the latter is the problem.
One of the College Micro professors I had wasn't big on warshing up before meals..., she would say..., why wash up when you can send em' home :D
Originally posted by head:
I still go by the "5 Second Rule"
For the most part I agree, but situation still dictates. When in the field, if I found one of those LRP corn flake bars that I had dropped the night before I would just scrape off the ants and outer layers of the bar with my knife and chow down. Needless to say, I liked those little buggers. :D
Tress
On top of the changes in our microfluora on the skin there are changes in the gut as well, especially with the liberal prescribing of antibiotics.
Do not forget the importance of the development of the immune system through infancy and the early childhood years. I personally think this is, in part, why children go through a phase where they explore everything by putting it in their mouths - this would be evolutionarily beneficial for increased antigen exposure in those who had properly functioning immune systems.
My son(10mo) is at that stage now, as I tell my wife, whatever doesn't kill him will make him stronger. On that note, I grew up without TV, so I spent a fair amount of time outdoors, and I rarely take OTC medications for anything(I'd say I down an Advil or two every 8+ months or so), and I have noticed that I do get sick less often than some of my pill popping co-workers...
My wife grew up in the sticks in colombia, not very clean. Sometimes I think she has a shield around her. She has never been sick. Son has her immune system also.
I've had MRSA so many times I've lost count...I'm now my own colony :D. Just another hazard of the job. After the third time, I didn't take antibiotics and voila! Got rid of it on my own, and done the same every time since. The infectious disease doc thinks my abhorrence of taking antibiotics except when I absolutely have to, avoidance of antibacterial soaps and healthy immune system got me a leg up.
There are now studies that strains of MRSA are also becoming resistant to antibiotic ointments due to overuse, just like with antibacterial soaps. So yes, I think we are too clean for our own good.
My wife grew up in the sticks in colombia, not very clean. Sometimes I think she has a shield around her. She has never been sick. Son has her immune system also.
My wife grew up in upstate NY, but her mother was of the "bubble wrap the kids" type, lo and behold, her and her siblings could have started their own ER with the amount of broken bones, stitch requiring lacerations, and other injuries and maladies. On the other hand, I grew up in suburban NJ, parents didn't care what we did, as long as it had less that a 90% mortality rate :p
I actually had friends who's parents banned them from coming over to my house because my dad taught me how to properly use power tools at a young age, it was *too dangerous* they said. My father figured I'd either cluelessly cut my hands off, or worse; or he could teach me how to utilize power tools properly in the construction of my tree house. That tree house finally kicked the bucket a few years ago when the tree died, and I'm still here, with both hands. :D
ETA: We are too clean and too safe(this was brought up some threads ago with regards to playgrounds).
So, when did drinkin' out of the garden hose become unsanitary? Before the sheeple started carrying purchased bottles of questionable "spring" water, it used to be where one could tank up...as youngsters, it was the designated water point.
greenberetTFS
09-19-2011, 21:16
Just recently I saw an ad in one of my wife's magazines showing Jennifer Aniston holding a bottle of water,its brand name was called "Smart Water"........ :eek: It costs up to $5 for a 16 oz bottle!..... :confused: This bottled water business is crazy,my parents wouldn't of believed that someday "water" would be sold in small little bottles for a lot money............ :rolleyes:
Big Teddy :munchin
I remember a lot of girls at my high school carrying around Evian bottled water, which made me laugh because I realized what evian was when spelled backwards.
Just recently I saw an ad in one of my wife's magazines showing Jennifer Aniston holding a bottle of water,its brand name was called "Smart Water"........ :eek: It costs up to $5 for a 16 oz bottle!..... :confused: This bottled water business is crazy,my parents wouldn't of believed that someday "water" would be sold in small little bottles for a lot money............ :rolleyes:
Big Teddy :munchin
God forbid people might drink tap water. Better off to pay an outrageous amount of money for a little bottle of evaporated and then re-condensed water... People are just crazy nowadays.
In my opinion: modern age has blown some time tested good practices in favour of some marketing generated nonsense.
Little kid sierra lima? I used to play outside all day, come back with scratches on my knees and all all kinds of dirt on me.
I'm healthy, I don't take medicines, I can't remember last time I saw a doctor other than my yearly full check-up. I've been doing this job for 8 years and I am exposed to all kinds of weather conditions: I've called in sick twice. A total of 16 working hours in 8 years. No antibiotics, no special soaps, no hand sanitizer, countless meals consumed with dirty hands or under conditions that nowadays would be considered unsanitary.
That should mean something.
Just recently I saw an ad in one of my wife's magazines showing Jennifer Aniston holding a bottle of water,its brand name was called "Smart Water"........ :eek: It costs up to $5 for a 16 oz bottle!..... :confused: This bottled water business is crazy,my parents wouldn't of believed that someday "water" would be sold in small little bottles for a lot money............ :rolleyes:
Big Teddy :munchin
It doesn't cost anywhere near that amount...no more than most other bottled waters, about $2 for 33oz. I drink it because it has electrolytes in it and I can't stand to drink Gatorade or other crap after working out.
I don't believe you can be too clean. I make sure I squeeze all the gunk out of pig guts before I make chitlins, and I feed possums sweet corn and water for a minimum of ten days before butchering.
I can't remember the last time I've had a cold...
1stindoor
09-20-2011, 09:56
I drink it because it has electrolytes in it
Like Brawndo...it has 'lectrolytes in it.
Just recently I saw an ad in one of my wife's magazines showing Jennifer Aniston holding a bottle of water,its brand name was called "Smart Water"........ It costs up to $5 for a 16 oz bottle!..... This bottled water business is crazy,my parents wouldn't of believed that someday "water" would be sold in small little bottles for a lot money............
Big Teddy :munchin
I dunno... she makes it look like it's worth 5$ to me ;)
I dunno... she makes it look like it's worth 5$ to me ;)
She's pathetic.
greenberetTFS
09-20-2011, 14:05
She's pathetic.
What "part" of her is ?.......:confused::confused::confused:
Big Teddy :munchin
What "part" of her is ?.......:confused::confused::confused:
Big Teddy :munchin
It's a pink font allusion to a comment Brad Pitt, her ex-husband, made and then immediately retracted, Bro.
I dunno... she makes it look like it's worth 5$ to me ;)I'd lick the sweat off the small of her back.....
Stay safe.
Just recently I saw an ad in one of my wife's magazines showing Jennifer Aniston holding a bottle of water,its brand name was called "Smart Water"........ :eek: It costs up to $5 for a 16 oz bottle!.....
It's made for dummies. ;)
I'd lick the sweat off the small of her back.....
Stay safe.
Just make sure it's really sweat! :eek:
Pat