View Full Version : Leftist legislation from the bench
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/02/prayer-prohibited-at-graduation-ceremony/?test=latestnews
The entire graduating class needs to stand up and say a prayer ending in " in Jesus' name we pray, Amen.", and then see what this idiotic "judge" thinks he can do about it; put the entire graduating class in jail!? I think not!:mad:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/02/prayer-prohibited-at-graduation-ceremony/?test=latestnews
The entire graduating class needs to stand up and say a prayer ending in " in Jesus' name we pray, Amen.", and then see what this idiotic "judge" thinks he can do about it; put the entire graduating class in jail!? I think not!:mad:
Should a student violate the order, school district officials could find themselves in legal trouble. Judge Biery ordered that his ruling be “enforced by incarceration or other sanctions for contempt of Court if not obeyed by District official (sic) and their agents.”
Apparently this judge already thought of this and will instead target school district officials. I agree though, these kids should do it anyway since it is their graduation and their free speech being infringed upon....:munchin
I don't understand how this is legislating from the bench -- separation of church and state. People want to pray in school...go to a private one. I went to a high school where an awful lot of my graduating class didn't pray in Jesus's name.
I don't understand how this is legislating from the bench -- separation of church and state. People want to pray in school...go to a private one. I went to a high school where an awful lot of my graduating class didn't pray in Jesus's name.
Separation of church and state has been taken way farther than the founding fathers intended it to be. The 1st Amendment reads: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
It is pretty simple english, especially the last six words "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Liberal activists have hijacked the 1st Amendment to meet their own needs. I went to school where we said the Pledge of Allegiance and a prayer EVERY morning before the first class started. If you don't believe in God or do not wish to pray; don't. Don't tell me or my children that we can't though, that will just piss me off and make mne do it any way!
The school district should already have a policy in place regarding such activites; it's a simple matter and should have been done long ago.
Although we were a non-denominational private school and had students of many faiths, we had an Invocation and Benediction for Baccalaureate and Graduation - asking people to "Please stand for the Invocation" or "Please stand for the Benediction" (not to "pray") - the Invocation and Benediction were humanistically neutral passages from the Bible (chosen by the event's coordinator and me), philosophically relevant to the celebration, and read by a member of the Student Council - there were no references to any "deity", no "amen", and we never had any issues with it.
I think the oft-cited "Founding Fathers" would be pleased with our interpretation of their "intent" in regards to the practice of religious freedom for all.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
1stindoor
06-03-2011, 08:08
passages from the Bible (chosen by the event's coordinator and me),
Did your fingers burn when you thumbed through the pages?:p
Sorry couldn't resist.
Did your fingers burn when you thumbed through the pages?:p
Sorry couldn't resist.
Nope - ours was not an "Autographed Copy." I had an English class my sophomore year in high school titled "The Bible As Litrature" - an excellent class which taught me the importance and power of language, and to appreciate the book for what it is, a well-edited anthology of historical fiction.
Richard :munchin
............... and to appreciate the book for what it is, a well-edited anthology of historical fiction.
Richard :munchin
Trust everybody - but cut the deck.
:D
and to appreciate the book for what it is, a well-edited anthology of historical fiction.
Richard :munchin
Which part can be proven to be fiction? There is plenty of evidence of the historical validity of many parts of the Bible.
http://agards-bible-timeline.com/q9_historical_proof_bible.html
http://carm.org/non-biblical-accounts-new-testament-events-andor-people
http://www.facingthechallenge.org/arch2.php
If you point to the story of creation and rely on "God created the Heavens and Earth in seven days" ; what is the definition of a "day" to God? 24 hours? Who knows?
So many biblical stories can be proven to have occurred that it is strange they are considered by some to be fairy tales. What I find ludicrous, is that one can look at the world around them and believe that all of nature, in its myriad forms, happened by accident; that out of all the planets in our solar system, ours was accidentally the only one able to support life as we know it.
Roguish Lawyer
06-03-2011, 10:20
:munchin
Oh boy . . . LMAO
Here we go! :D
Just what I was thinking...is there time for me to grab lunch before the show starts?? :munchin
I'd bet he was trolling for a response.....any takers?
You might have time for lunch.
:munchin
craigepo
06-03-2011, 11:20
and to appreciate the book for what it is, a well-edited anthology of historical fiction.
Richard :munchin
I know that Richard is sitting at his monitor, snickering.
One question for Richard: Do you also believe that the works of the Jewish historian Josephus are fictitious as well?
1stindoor
06-03-2011, 11:29
Nope - ours was not an "Autographed Copy." I had an English class my sophomore year in high school titled "The Bible As Litrature" - an excellent class which taught me the importance and power of language, and to appreciate the book for what it is, a well-edited anthology of historical fiction.
Richard :munchin
Hmmm...I can clearly see the bait...and know you're poised to try and set the hook...yet, I'll bite.
You must have had the wrong "book."
My Bible is the unerring word of God.
I'll just ask one question...the same one God asked of Job, found in Job Chapter 38.
1stindoor
06-03-2011, 11:31
Just to clarify...I meant Job 38:4-5
Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
And gawd still speaks through Brady.*
A definition of the terms "edited," "anthology," and "historical fiction" (e.g., "The Killer Angels" by Shaara and "The Source" by Michener), as well as more reading into the topics of World History and current scientific findings and research trends on the topic of planetary life (e.g., Scouring Space for Life: More Earths Out There than We Thought? http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2073211,00.html?xid=newsletter-weekly ) might be interesting in framing any debate over our attempts to understand what we have discovered since the times when someone's claim of a stick being turned into a serpent seemed plausible to many and what we have yet to understand in what was penned by the "Founding Fathers" as being of the "laws of nature and nature's God."
Richard :munchin
* Inherit the Wind
I'd bet he was trolling for a response.....any takers?
You might have time for lunch.
:munchin
Oh, yeah, there's a Taker. Richard's Maker.
That statement was pitchfork bait if I ever read it. :D
lol Richard will have all the time in the world...
1stindoor
06-03-2011, 12:06
I wasn't familar with your book, The Bible as Literature so I had to do a little research on it myself. Having not read the book you have me at a slight disadvantage, however having read the Bible (King James...as if it came in another flavor) several times I'm pretty familar with that body of work.
What I found interesting is this comment from one of the editors of the book, I think in it's 5th edition.
As in the widely popular earlier editions, the latest revision of this comprehensive and systematic text approaches the Bible from a literary/historical perspective, studying it as a body of writing produced by real people who intended to convey messages to actual audiences. Avoiding assessments of the Bible's truth or authority, the authors maintain a rigorously objective tone as they discuss such major issues as the forms and strategies of biblical writing, its actual historical and physical settings, the process of canon formation, and the nature of biblical genres including prophecy, apocalypse, and gospel.
I don't understand how the authors can avoid assessments of truth or authority and at the same time question the historical and physical settings?
One either takes the Bible on faith...or one doesn't.
This was also interesting to me,
The fifth edition features a new coauthor, David Citino; a new chapter by contributor Nicola Denzey on the essential yet often overlooked role of women in the Bible; and a new appendix on modern approaches to the Bible. It also incorporates new maps, a timeline, updated bibliographies, and revised material throughout. This objective, easy-to-use, and exciting presentation of the Bible is indispensable to students and accessible to general readers.
Who's been overlooking the womenfolk? The authors of the Books of the Bible...or it's readers?
Roguish Lawyer
06-03-2011, 12:15
Oh, yeah, there's a Taker. Richard's Maker.
That statement was pitchfork bait if I ever read it. :D
lol Richard will have all the time in the world...
LMAO
I.............Who's been overlooking the womenfolk? The authors of the Books of the Bible...or it's readers?
Overlooked?
Some would say a few books were overlooked when they put the Bible together.
1stindoor
06-03-2011, 12:43
Overlooked?
Some would say a few books were overlooked when they put the Bible together.
I can't deny that. One has to look no further than the Catholic Bible and the Protestant Bible (in whatever version/perversion you prefer). My point was that the women in the Bible are not overlooked. Their roles may have been understated comparitively speaking...but their roles are clearly there for those that take the Bible as the word of God and understand what those women accomplished.
incarcerated
06-04-2011, 00:49
I don't understand how this is legislating from the bench -- separation of church and state.
The separation of church and state was also legislated from the bench.
This has been the Left’s primary method of advancing its social and political agendas in modern times. The Left understands that power is attained by codifying its values into law.
The separation of church and state was also legislated from the bench.
This has been the Left’s primary method of advancing its social and political agendas in modern times. The Left understands that power is attained by codifying its values into law.
Excellent post. I concur completely.
The separation of church and state was also legislated from the bench.
This has been the Left’s primary method of advancing its social and political agendas in modern times. The Left understands that power is attained by codifying its values into law.
I disagree - the concept of the separation of church and state was legislated with the adoption of Art Vl of the Constitution of the United States and further cemented with the adoption of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (Bill of Rights) - and I would hardly call the "Founding Fathers" "the Left"...although some in Parliament might.
Richard :munchin
Richard, Richard, Richard. Sounds like you have a bit of a leftist tinge to you yourself.....or an atheist one. Must be that teacher background;)
Richard, Richard, Richard. Sounds like you have a bit of a leftist tinge to you yourself.....or an atheist one. Must be that teacher background;)
Richard's just practicing for when the Chicoms take over. :D
Thank the God of the 'Founding Fathers' for the Constitution of the United States and Bill of Rights.
Richard :munchin
Why not just read about the founding fathers lives rather than tell us what they'd think. They'll tell you themselves.
Seperation of Church/State was included because of Great Britains official state church and one had register at an Anglican church (for the census) to ...this came to the colonies also.
Seperation of Church and State meant there would be no 'official' state church not a complete removal of prayer/worship from public life.
As an aside, the 'they didn't really practice religion' (founding Fathers) rewriting of history took hold in the 20'-30's in this country and some not so very well researched (purposely misleading with a secular agenda) works like Bollingers' "Washington and Religion" that has very convieniently ignored many historical facts.
I rec "George Washingtons Sacred Fire" by Lillback. A 15 year work with the appropriate footnotes and ref.
I note this because of the secular smokescreen that's been pushed by our teaching class for years...a rewriting of our historical figures lives to suit their secular agenda.
All of the States Const preambles
Alabama 1901, Preamble
We the people of the State of Alabama , invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution..
Alaska 1956, Preamble We, the people of Alaska , grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land.
Arizona 1911, Preamble We, the people of the State of Arizona , grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution...
Arkansas 1874, Preamble We, the people of the State of Arkansas , grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government...
California 1879, Preamble We, the People of the State of California , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom...
Colorado 1876, Preamble We, the people of Colorado , with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe...
Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy.
Delaware 1897, Preamble Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences.
Florida 1885, Preamble We, the people of the State of Florida , grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty, establish this Constitution...
Georgia 1777, Preamble We, the people of Georgia , relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution...
Hawaii 1959, Preamble We , the people of Hawaii , Grateful for Divine Guidance ... Establish this Constitution.
Idaho 1889, Preamble We, the people of the State of Idaho , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings.
Illinois 1870, Preamble We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil , political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.
Indiana 1851, Preamble We, the People of the State of Indiana , grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to choose our form of government.
Iowa 1857, Preamble We, the People of the St ate of Iowa , grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings, establish this Constitution.
Kansas 1859, Preamble We, the people of Kansas , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges establish this Constitution.
Kentucky 1891, Preamble.. We, the people of the Commonwealth are grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties..
Louisiana 1921, Preamble We, the people of the State of Louisiana , grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy.
Maine 1820, Preamble We the People of Maine acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity .. And imploring His aid and direction.
Maryland 1776, Preamble We, the people of the state of Maryland , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty...
Massachusetts 1780, Preamble We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe In the course of His Providence, an opportunity and devoutly imploring His direction
Michigan 1908, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Michigan , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom, establish this Constitution.
Minnesota, 1857, Preamble We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings:
Mississippi 1890, Preamble We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work.
Missouri 1845, Preamble We, the people of Missouri , with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness . Establish this Constitution...
Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty establish this Constitution ..
Nebraska 1875, Preamble We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom . Establish this Constitution.
Nevada 1864, Preamble We the people of the State of Nevada , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, establish this Constitution...
New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience.
New Jersey 1844, Preamble We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.
New Mexico 1911, Preamble We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty..
New York 1846, Preamble We, the people of the State of New York , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings.
North Carol ina 1868, Preamble We the people of the State of North Carol ina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those...
North Dakota 1889, Preamble We , the people of North Dakota , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain...
Ohio 1852, Preamble We the people of the state of Ohio , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common.
Oklahoma 1907, Preamble Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty, establish this
Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences
Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance.....
Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing....
South Carolina , 1778, Preamble We, the people of he State of South Carol ina grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution.
South Dakota 1889, Preamble We, the people of South Dakota , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties .
Tennessee 1796, Art. XI..III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience...
Texas 1845, Preamble We the People of the Republic of Texas , acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.
Utah 1896, Preamble Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we establish this Constitution.
Vermont 1777, Preamble Whereas all government ought to enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ..
Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator can be directed only by Reason and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other
Washington 1889, Preamble We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution
West Virginia 1872, Preamble Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God ...
Wisconsin 1848, Preamble We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility....
Wyoming 1890, Preamble We, the people of the State of Wyoming , grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties, establish this Constitution...
Arguing about religion is like running on a treadmill - you end up out of breath but you still haven't gone anywhere :D
True, not arguing about Religion...I'm concerned about our historical past and how Religion was a part of the founding documents and the writers motivation.
Don't like revisionist history
FWIW, some of state constitutions themselves are available here (http://www.law.cornell.edu/statutes.html) others are available at the Avalon Project (http://avalon.law.yale.edu/default.asp). There, one can find how the framers of the various state constitutions viewed the intertwined issues of church, state, race, and religious freedom. For example, South Carolina (http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/sc02.asp) took a clear position on Catholicism and Judaism by sanctioning the practice of Protestantism for all. That is, except for the 43% of the population who happened not to be white. They were forbidden to learn how to read or to write or to assembly lest they pursue their "wicked designs and purposes (http://law.jrank.org/pages/11669/South-Carolina-Slave-Code-South-Carolina-Slave-Code.html)".XXXVIII. That all persons and religious societies who acknowledge that there is one God, and a future state of rewards and punishments, and that God is publicly to be worshipped, shall be freely tolerated. The Christian Protestant religion shall be deemed, and is hereby constituted and declared to be, the established religion of this State. That all denominations of Christian Protestants in this State, demeaning themselves peaceably and faithfully, shall enjoy equal religious and civil privileges. To accomplish this desirable purpose without injury to the religious property of those societies of Christians which are by law already incorporated for the purpose of religious worship, and to put it fully into the power of every other society of Christian Protestants, either already formed or hereafter to be formed, to obtain the like incorporation, it is hereby constituted, appointed, and declared that the respective societies of the Church of England that are already formed in this State for the purpose of religious worship shall still continue incorporate and hold the religious property now in their possession. And that whenever fifteen or more male persons, not under twenty-one years of age, professing the Christian Protestant religion, and agreeing to unite themselves In a society for the purposes of religious worship, they shall, (on complying with the terms hereinafter mentioned,) be, and be constituted a church, and be esteemed and regarded in law as of the established religion of the State, and on a petition to the legislature shall be entitled to be incorporated and to enjoy equal privileges. That every society of Christians so formed shall give themselves a name or denomination by which they shall be called and known in law, and all that associate with them for the purposes of worship shall be esteemed as belonging to the society so called. But that previous to the establishment and incorporation of the respective societies of every denomination as aforesaid, and in order to entitle them thereto, each society so petitioning shall have agreed to and subscribed in a book the following five articles, without which no agreement fir union of men upon presence of religion shall entitle them to be incorporated and esteemed as a church of the established religion of this State:
1st. That there is one eternal God, and a future state of rewards and punishments.
2d. That God is publicly to be worshipped.
3d. That the Christian religion is the true religion
4th. That the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are of divine inspiration, and are the rule of faith and practice.
5th. That it is lawful and the duty of every man being thereunto called by those that govern, to bear witness to the truth.
And that every inhabitant of this State, when called to make an appeal to God as a witness to truth, shall be permitted to do it in that way which is most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience. And that the people of this State may forever enjoy the right of electing their own pastors or clergy, and at the same time that the State may have sufficient security for the due discharge of the pastoral office, by those who shall be admitted to be clergymen, no person shall officiate as minister of any established church who shall not have been chosen by a majority of the society to which he shall minister, or by persons appointed by the said majority, to choose and procure a minister for them; nor until the minister so chosen and appointed shall have made and subscribed to the following declaration, over and above the aforesaid five articles, viz: "That he is determined by God's grace out of the holy scriptures, to instruct the people committed to his charge, and to teach nothing as required of necessity to eternal salvation but that which he shall be persuaded may be concluded and proved from the scripture; that he will use both public and private admonitions, as well to the sick as to the whole within his cure, as need shall require and occasion shall be given, and that he will be diligent in prayers, and in reading of the same; that he will be diligent to frame and fashion his own self and his family according to the doctrine of Christ, and to make both himself and them, as much as in him lieth, wholesome examples and patterns to the flock of Christ; that he will maintain and set forwards, as much as he can, quietness, peace, and love among all people, and especially among those that are or shall be committed to lids charge. No person shall disturb or molest any religious assembly; nor shall use any reproachful, reviling, or abusive language against any church, that being the certain way of disturbing the peace, and of hindering the conversion of any to the truth, by engaging them in quarrels and animosities, to the hatred of the professors, and that profession which otherwise they might be brought to assent to. To person whatsoever shall speak anything in their religious assembly irreverently or seditiously of the government of this State. No person shall, by law, be obliged to pay towards the maintenance and support of a religious worship that he does not freely join in, or has not voluntarily engaged to support. But the churches, chapels, parsonages, globes, and all other property now belonging to any societies of the Church of England, or any other religious societies, shall remain and be secured to them forever. The poor shall be supported, and elections managed in the accustomed manner, until laws shall be provided to adjust those matters in the most equitable way.
All true, right, wrong, indifferent it was a major player in how early Americans viewed their state of being.
Roguish Lawyer
06-04-2011, 16:39
All true, right, wrong, indifferent it was a major player in how early Americans viewed their state of being.
Absolutely correct
Roguish Lawyer
06-04-2011, 16:47
This is an area in which I have read a great deal, although I did it many years ago. Here are some sources interested people might want to read if you haven't already (I am amazed by how many of these things are now on-line, found them all with google very quickly):
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwfr.html
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/histdox/fedpapers.html
http://www.constitution.org/afp/afp.htm
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/texts/hobbes/leviathan-contents.html
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/texts/locke/locke2/locke2nd-a.html
http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-House-Divided-Interpretation-Lincoln-Douglas/dp/0226391132
FWIW, some of state constitutions themselves are available here others are available at the Avalon Project. There, one can find how the framers of the various state constitutions viewed the intertwined issues of church, state, race, and religious freedom. For example, South Carolina took a clear position on Catholicism and Judaism by sanctioning the practice of Protestantism for all. That is, except for the 43% of the population who happened not to be white. They were forbidden to learn how to read or to write or to assembly lest they pursue their "wicked designs and purposes".
Yeah I remember this, wasn't there a civil war or something?
Don't like revisionist historyQP PRB
With respect, all historical inquiry is an exercise in revisionism. It has been that way since Thucydides squared off against Herodotus.
Roguish Lawyer
06-04-2011, 17:16
QP PRB
With respect, all historical inquiry is an exercise in revisionism. It has been that way since Thucydides squared off against Herodotus.
I think this is a fair point. The slavery provisions of the Constitution are a real challenge for those who want original intent to be a core principle of constitutional interpretation. Harry Jaffa's book, which I posted an Amazon link for above, may be the best attempt to address this issue. At least I thought it was 20 years ago when I was deeply interested in this stuff.
Warrior pen
06-04-2011, 19:03
Sorry for my bad English. :o
In Italy:
2009
The European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg upheld the action brought by a Italian town of Finnish origin has determined that the presence of crucifixes in classrooms is:
"A violation of the right of parents to educate their children according to their beliefs"
also a violation of
"Freedom of religion of the pupils"
2011
Second and final ruling of the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg:
"Italy has not breached any law and the crucifix can be exposed in Italian schools"
It is surprising that the European Court to intervene heavily in an area very closely linked to 'historical identity, cultural, spiritual, of the Italian people. :eek: :mad:
"Religion must never be used as a source of conflict"
"Christians and Muslims, together with believers of every religion, are called to renounce violence in order to build a humanity-loving life, to grow in justice and solidarity"
Pope John Paul II.
"Peace is a gift from God, and a project to be implemented, the result of a process of purification and elevation of cultural, moral and spiritual life of every person and people, in which human dignity is fully respected."
Pope Benedict XVI
Unfortunately that is still the 'ancient Roman said ... "Si vis pacem, para bellum" ... :lifter
QP PRB
With respect, all historical inquiry is an exercise in revisionism. It has been that way since Thucydides squared off against Herodotus.
In that we see it thru our own eyes and experience.
When authors mislead purposely by misquoting or ignoring evidence that is blatant revisionism.
I am not arguing religion or rightness/wrongness. Simply that religion/God were important to the founders and the founding documents reflect that.
The primary concept of our freedoms eminate from this belief of God given rights not those given by Kings and Monarchs.
That's it.
When authors mislead purposely by misquoting or ignoring evidence that is blatant revisionism.Then what is to be said about those founders who ignored the abundant evidence that many of their every day practices were contrary to the values they professed? By not addressing the contradictions contemporaneously they--not the historians who study them and offer critical interpretations--undermined the legitimacy of those values.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/03/texas-senator-blasts-judges-decision-to-forbid-public-prayer-at-high-school/?test=latestnews
It appears the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals has reversed the ruling that started this thread. Personally, I am glad to see it.
Then what is to be said about those founders who ignored the abundant evidence that many of their every day practices were contrary to the values they professed? By not addressing the contradictions contemporaneously they--not the historians who study them and offer critical interpretations--undermined the legitimacy of those values.
Still not on the subject I was discussing.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/03/texas-senator-blasts-judges-decision-to-forbid-public-prayer-at-high-school/?test=latestnews
It appears the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals has reversed the ruling that started this thread. Personally, I am glad to see it.
As am I.
colmurph
06-05-2011, 08:52
I don't understand how this is legislating from the bench -- separation of church and state. People want to pray in school...go to a private one. I went to a high school where an awful lot of my graduating class didn't pray in Jesus's name.
You need to read and UNDERSTAND the Constitution. There is nothing there about separation of church and state, it only implies that the U.S. Government will not have a "State Religion" and be a Theocracy. This is clearly an infringement on their rights to free speech. Free speech to a liberal means you can burn the US Flag but you cannot pray? The Supreme Court can interpret the Constitution but I don't think that a Circuit Court Judge has any business legistlating from the bench as this buffoon clearly is.
If your personal beliefs are that fragile that you would suffer "irreperable harm" from such simple words, then perhaps you should take a harder look at yourself rather than point the finger at others.
"Buddha only gave you so many rocks."
CPT Remo Butler before a jump in high wind. :D