View Full Version : MFF Dogs??
Does this look like someone jumping from 30K??
Would the handler and dog jump without any thermal protection??
U.S. Military Member Mike Forsythe, and his dog, Cara, break the world record for "highest man/dog parachute deployment" by jumping from 30,100 feet in this undated image released by the Canadian company "K9 Storm Inc."
The New York Times and other United States media have reported that a military canine accompanied Navy SEAL Team Six commandos into a compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan in a raid that killed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.
I don't have access but here is the link..
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/05/science/05dog.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=canine%20osama%20bin%20laden&st=cse
Originally posted by JJ_BPK:
Does this look like someone jumping from 30K??
Would the handler and dog jump without any thermal protection??
It could be, the tail gate on the A/C is usually not open too long and as soon as your toes leave the tailgate the adrenalin starts to flow and warms you up fast. :D
The only instances where I have been really cold on a straight freefall jump were while in a helicopter with the doors open the entire time and while civilian skydiving in a Twin Otter or similar A/C where, again, the door was open during the entire flight.
I cannot tell if the dog is on oxygen or not. I would assume that since the human is on oxygen, the dog would need to be also. Looks more like a vanity photo, good for publishing out in the open.
I wonder how much tail wagging affects descent?
Papa Zero Three
05-07-2011, 18:42
Does this look like someone jumping from 30K??
Would the handler and dog jump without any thermal protection??
I don't have access but here is the link..
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/05/science/05dog.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=canine%20osama%20bin%20laden&st=cse
I can 100% vouch for the jump, I was there. However, Mike F.(jumper) has never been in the military. Mike is/was a FEMA dog handler and that is his dog Cara in the picture. I worked with Mike in developing the harness and a POI for doing this some time back. The photo is from the WFFC circa August 2004. The jump was done from 30,100 feet, if you look at the photo close you can see the altitude on his altimeter when the shot was taken. This was done as a proof of concept after the harness was developed. Equipment used was Mike's civilian tandem rig and O2 equipment from HALOjumper.com and Mike Mullins king Air. After the 30 min prebreath on the ground they had a 15 min ride to altitude and jumped. Temperature on the ground that day was in the high 100s and it was in the teens/20s if I recall correctly. Mike had a makeshift vet O2 mask for Cara while on the plane but no bailout bottle at the time for the freefall. I do believe he had these little overshoes(paws) to cover cara's pads up on that jump and doggles for her eyes. As soon as they landed Cara's vitals were taken and everything was normal. Like all dogs, when she was put on the ground she shook herself a bit and then started wagging her tail like nothing had happened.
Team Sergeant
05-07-2011, 19:02
It could be, the tail gate on the A/C is usually not open too long and as soon as your toes leave the tailgate the adrenalin starts to flow and warms you up fast. :D
The only instances where I have been really cold on a straight freefall jump were while in a helicopter with the doors open the entire time and while civilian skydiving in a Twin Otter or similar A/C where, again, the door was open during the entire flight.
I cannot tell if the dog is on oxygen or not. I would assume that since the human is on oxygen, the dog would need to be also. Looks more like a vanity photo, good for publishing out in the open.
We did a 26,250 jump on Bragg, warm on the ground, not too bad while falling, but my friggin hands were frozen by the time I landed!
Only 30 min prebreath??? Wonder why?
Also he's not moving that fast if he wearing a drogue chute......
Mike is/was a FEMA dog handler and that is his dog Cara in the picture.
FEMA!? Is FEMA expecting to have to do a HALO jump into a disaster area? :confused:
Pat
Ret10Echo
05-07-2011, 19:46
FEMA!? Is FEMA expecting to have to do a HALO jump into a disaster area? :confused:
Pat
We could tell you, but we'd have to lock your head in a safe...
I can 100% vouch for the jump, I was there.
Thank you very much for that little nugget of history,, It's amazing what knowledge is available here..
:lifter
We could tell you, but we'd have to lock your head in a safe...
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit safe cracking! :)
Pat
Papa Zero Three
05-07-2011, 22:30
FEMA!? Is FEMA expecting to have to do a HALO jump into a disaster area? :confused:
Pat
No, actually there is a back story there and it was I who brought it to Mike, who just so happened to be a FEMA dog handler and in the skydiving industry at the time. But that story is one that is best reserved for a more appropriate audience.
Golf1echo
05-08-2011, 00:29
Here is chilly jump with K9
Here is chilly jump with K9
Just to correct the caption, Austrian special forces ( Jagdkommando ), not Norwegian SF.
greenberetTFS
05-08-2011, 07:19
An Army chief of staff labels Special Forces soldiers 'fugitives from responsibility,' too odd for the regulars
Posted By Thomas E. Ricks Friday, March 11, 2011 - 10:58 AM Share
I had no idea that an Army chief of staff would feel so anti-Special Forces, and would say so. When I was up at Carlisle I read the oral history that Gen. Harold K. Johnson, who preceded William Westmoreland as Army chief, gave in 1973, and this jumped out at me:
The Special Forces...were what I would describe as consisting primarily of fugitives from responsibility. These were people that somehow or other tended to be nonconformists, couldn't get along in a straight military system, and found a haven where their actions were not scrutinized too carefully, and where they came under only sporadic or intermittent observation from the regular chain of command.
Of course, Johnson was speaking a few years after the biggest scandal in Special Forces history, when Col. Robert B. Rheault, the commander of SF in Vietnam, was charged by the Army with murder, only to get the charges dropped because the CIA said it would not allow its people to testify against him. (Rheault supposedly was one of the inspirations for the Marlon Brando character in 'Apocalypse Now.')
But Johnson also was speaking a few years after My Lai, and you don't see him condemn all infantrymen because of that.
Big Teddy :munchin
Is this from the Highly Classified K-9 CQB Program. Or just Dogs getting the Sh$#t scared out of them.
Is this from the Highly Classified K-9 CQB Program. Or just Dogs getting the Sh$#t scared out of them.
I say both!! :eek: :D
Eagle5US
05-08-2011, 13:30
Equipment used was Mike's civilian tandem rig and O2 equipment from HALOjumper.com and Mike Mullins king Air. After the 30 min prebreath on the ground they had a 15 min ride to altitude and jumped. Temperature on the ground that day was in the high 100s and it was in the teens/20s if I recall correctly. Mike had a makeshift vet O2 mask for Cara while on the plane but no bailout bottle at the time for the freefall.
30 min pre-breath and then 15 minutes to get to 31K? Hell it took me 20 minutes to get to 12,500 yesterday, and then the JM started looking for the DZ to get a spot. Not to mention, the "period of useful consciousness" for a human at that altitude is around 1:30 - 2 minutes after rapid decompression (i.e. no O2) / about 4 minutes till your O2 sats are hovering around 67% (from my last chamber ride) if on O2 and then remove your mask. No clue what it would be for a dog...
Good on 'em for getting the shot - but damn the execution was certainly not within the normal range of "accepted practice" from the info given...
Papa Zero Three
05-08-2011, 14:32
30 min pre-breath and then 15 minutes to get to 31K? Hell it took me 20 minutes to get to 12,500 yesterday, and then the JM started looking for the DZ to get a spot. Not to mention, the "period of useful consciousness" for a human at that altitude is around 1:30 - 2 minutes after rapid decompression (i.e. no O2) / about 4 minutes till your O2 sats are hovering around 67% (from my last chamber ride) if on O2 and then remove your mask. No clue what it would be for a dog...
Good on 'em for getting the shot - but damn the execution was certainly not within the normal range of "accepted practice" from the info given...
Let me clarify more:
Mike Mullins has the fastest King Air in the USA and he flies it like he stole it, the spot at WFFC is pretty standard for civilian skydiving operations with the exception of the multiple A/C flying at one time; it's not like military spotting by any means. The jumpers and the dog were on a standard 6 man console while on the aircraft during the climb. They used HALOjumper.com's O2 equipment which is all the same military stuff we use and the owner used to be the Cdr at the HALO school awhile back so everything is done by the book. The only one who didn't have a bailout bottle was Cara the dog. Aside from Cara not having a bail out bottle,everything else about that jump was as by the book as one can get in the civilian world.
As a side note, Mike Mullins also has his own onboard O2 system with full face masks as he does a lot of high altitude jumps for civilians and those jumps do not follow our protocols as far as pre-breathing and procedures goes.
P03 - How did they Dog take the jump, altitude, opening, ETC? Do you know how she is doing now.
Papa Zero Three
05-08-2011, 15:20
P03 - How did they Dog take the jump, altitude, opening, ETC? Do you know how she is doing now.
Dog did fine, no issues at any stage of the jump. We took the dogs vitals as soon as she landed and she was normal across the board, like it was a normal day for her. As far as I know, cara is still doing fine. She's logged a few more jumps since then, how many total I don't know.
Here is another shot of Cara doing a jump.