View Full Version : GI Jane for real?
I guess the saying "Life imitates art" turns out to be true
http://ebird.osd.mil/ebfiles/e20110411814319.html
x SF med
04-12-2011, 08:41
Linky no worky without a .mil addy... any help for those of us without?
New link for e-bird challenged people.
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/04/navy-all-jobs-open-to-women-secnav-041111w/
Maybe he's awaiting the results of that Australian military gender study. ;)
Richard :munchin
I see something behind the story that was not fleshed out......
".....“So, that planning is underway in terms of how that would work,” he added. “Part of it is what lessons were learned with women on the SSBNs and the SSGNs. Let’s get a little experience first before we move out on that.”......."
That bit was dropped in the middle of a longer statement but begs the question "Why did you say that? Is there something that has come up about women on SSBNs and SSGNs? What lessons were learned?"
What lessons were learned?"
Don't let them drive the damn things? :eek: :rolleyes:
Richard :munchin
Maybe he's awaiting the results of that Australian military gender study. ;)
Richard :munchin
How about the
....Israeli
.....UK
.....Canadian
.....Germany
.....Russian
....ETC,,ETC... ETC
1stindoor
04-12-2011, 11:47
That does it...I'm going to fight to make sure all men have the opportunity to serve on a CST or FET if they feel up to the challenge. For too long already we have been discriminated against simply due to our gender. I can see the press release now... “It’s my notion that men should have the same opportunities as women in the Army.”
Hey maybe the started this already with the new AFPT.. or Combat Readiness Test (CRT). I really think people in higher places have been on this downward hill for sometime.
Women in Combat arms??? A good blog LINK (http://www.cnas.org/blogs/abumuqawama/2011/03/new-apft.html) here
Interesting....how come "combat exclusions" don't apply to female Army, Navy & Airforce combat pilots?
Dozer523
04-16-2011, 07:18
Interesting....how come "combat exclusions" don't apply to female Army, Navy & Airforce combat pilots? Maybe something to do with all that running and dodging, load-bearing, i'm-up-i'm-seen-i'm-down, rolling in the dirt, closing with and destroying the enemy?
I don't know.
The Reaper
04-16-2011, 21:08
Interesting....how come "combat exclusions" don't apply to female Army, Navy & Airforce combat pilots?
Ground combat.
TR
Dozer523
04-16-2011, 23:02
Do you think if the navy allows women to become a seal, other services will allow women to become PJ's/line Infantry (Army and marine corps)/Rangers/Army Special Forces/ marine recon/force recon ?
They call it the Navy because it's not the Army.
The problem isn't that women can't physically do the things required to operate a submarine (That problem had to do with sleeping arrangements) or for that matter do the things required to fly a plane. Even as the SECNAVY acknowledges (you go gurl) the problem may be meeting the physical standard of being a SEAL.
(what, girls can't go to the gym for hours instead of rehearsing actions on the objective?)
greenberetTFS
04-17-2011, 05:26
[QUOTE=Dozer523;386885] Even as the SECNAVY acknowledges (you go gurl) the problem may be meeting the physical standard of being a SEAL.
I don't know about that,especially after seeing Demi doing those "one handed push- ups",can't tell me that broad wasn't in damn good shape......... :eek:
Big Teddy :munchin
I found this on a BLACK OPERATOR web site.. It is pro-ported to be the latest version of TRADOC revised Army Physical Fitness Test, as an alternative to station #2 "Individual Movement Techniques"..
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81439935/
The video show a couple recruits and their reactions to the new test..
This alternative should be gender neutered..
:munchin
Team Sergeant
04-17-2011, 16:58
I dunno, I think I'd rather have a woman sharing my foxhole than some gender confused male. Glad I'm retired......;)
I dunno, I think I'd rather have a woman sharing my foxhole than some gender confused male. Glad I'm retired......;)You would NOT believe the # of males getting their finger nails done and eyebrows arched in Iraq.:eek:
Stay safe.
You would NOT believe the # of males getting their finger nails done and eyebrows arched in Iraq.:eek:
Stay safe.
There will come a day when an NCOER will read, "Maintains a high level of personal grooming, respected amongst his peers, exceeds standards for color coordination. Feng Shui is strong, promote immediately."
greenberetTFS
04-18-2011, 07:00
I dunno, I think I'd rather have a woman sharing my foxhole than some gender confused male. Glad I'm retired......;)
I concur.........;)
Big Teddy :munchin
The Reaper
04-18-2011, 08:50
I'll take a gay competent soldier over a straight idiot in my foxhole anyday Sir.
Based on what experience?
How many years have you been on active service?
Have you actually ever spent time in a foxhole?
TR
I'll take a gay competent soldier over a straight idiot in my foxhole anyday Sir.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/04/15/barney-frank-bares-all-for-playboy/
Playboy calls the interview “a candid conversation with the maverick congressman about America’s economic crisis, gay rights, the Middle East, and his real problem with the Republican Party.”
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/04/15/barney-frank-bares-all-for-playboy/#ixzz1Jt3wXLDj
I think I'll wait to see what the great and wonderful Barney Frank will have to say about it.:munchin
Somebody here trying to give the Depue Improved Individual Fighting Position a bad name?
It's been the DIIFP ever since way before mpower was born.
The Reaper
04-18-2011, 16:18
Sir I'm basing it on my opinion that a soldiers sexual preference in no way has any affect on their ability to soldier.
Though it might make using french sniping tactics kind of interesting.
Opinions without experience are dangerous things. Kind of like the utopia of socialism.
Sex affects many human interactions, especially in the age group of young soldiers.
You might want to turn your SA up and start watching where you tread.
Or I can just get you a bigger shovel.
TR
greenberetTFS
04-18-2011, 16:49
Opinions without experience are dangerous things. Kind of like the utopia of socialism.
Sex affects many human interactions, especially in the age group of young soldiers.
You might want to turn your SA up and start watching where you tread.
Or I can just get you a bigger shovel.
TR
I don't know TR,why is youth wasted on the young?...........;)
Big Teddy :munchin.
Sir I'm basing it on my opinion that a soldiers sexual preference in no way has any affect on their ability to soldier.
That is usually known as bias. Your statement begs another question: How do you know that a soldiers sexual preference in no way affects their ability to soldier? Been around many homosexuals?
frostfire
04-20-2011, 16:30
Another point not readily observable is certain anatomical difference: One gender is more prone to foreign contamination/leakage, the other to plugging. it is what it is. An old marine recon friend told of one training in swampy environment so long and so deep that he literary had growth "down there.":eek: Had he been the opposite gender, he believed he would have died from urinary tract infection sequela.
Based on UTI cases that I see here on female soldiers, who already work at a rather clean environment, I wouldn't want to see the aftermath after a few days in the swamp. Of course, any swampy-like portion can always be removed frm Ranger, SEALS, usw training...another double standard can't hurt :rolleyes:
AngelsSix
04-24-2011, 03:02
Another point not readily observable is certain anatomical difference: One gender is more prone to foreign contamination/leakage, the other to plugging. it is what it is. An old marine recon friend told of one training in swampy environment so long and so deep that he literary had growth "down there.":eek: Had he been the opposite gender, he believed he would have died from urinary tract infection sequela.
Based on UTI cases that I see here on female soldiers, who already work at a rather clean environment, I wouldn't want to see the aftermath after a few days in the swamp. Of course, any swampy-like portion can always be removed frm Ranger, SEALS, usw training...another double standard can't hurt :rolleyes:
The problem with women constantly coming down with UTI's has nothing to do with a dirty or clean work environment (I've been in plenty of dirty ones), as much as it has to do with unprotected sex. Most people don't want to acknowledge that. Some people are just nasty. Trust me on that.:rolleyes:
Women are not physically capable as men are period! I had a CA chick attached to my team in the Stan. Who for some reason was allowed to be a gunner on one of our GMV's every once in a blue moon. By all means she was probably the one of the most in shape women in the military I have seen. Crossfit chick who can max her pt test and physically perform over 95% of the women out there in the military. One day while we were doing maintenance on our weapons and vehicles, me and a buddy asked her to replace a 50 cal can (The 200 RD type in the 40mm ammo can), also not in kit, and we timed it. Needless to say 10 minutes later she was physically unable to do so and never she again touched that gun.
gits,
I've seen that event time-and-time-again! I had too threaten an Iraqi male with bodily harm onetime.
"I'll just bow out of this thread before my BP goes sky-high....":cool:
Stay safe.
What interesting times we live in. Homo cowpokes and warriors. Rambo broads. Posers galore.
Hey, if you don't have a real birth certificate, does that make you a poser? :munchin
Originally quoted by Dusty:
What interesting times we live in. Homo cowpokes and warriors. Rambo broads. Posers galore.
Hey, if you don't have a real birth certificate, does that make you a poser?
?Hoo joo callin a pozer?
18576
Team Sergeant
04-24-2011, 14:37
Another point not readily observable is certain anatomical difference: One gender is more prone to foreign contamination/leakage, the other to plugging. it is what it is. An old marine recon friend told of one training in swampy environment so long and so deep that he literary had growth "down there.":eek: Had he been the opposite gender, he believed he would have died from urinary tract infection sequela.
Based on UTI cases that I see here on female soldiers, who already work at a rather clean environment, I wouldn't want to see the aftermath after a few days in the swamp. Of course, any swampy-like portion can always be removed frm Ranger, SEALS, usw training...another double standard can't hurt :rolleyes:
frostfire, I don't see an MD in your profile? You go and get a MD and didn't tell anyone?:munchin
If not keep the medical opinion to your field of expertise. I've worked in an ER also and have seen women with UTI's but as for what causes them I've no idea.
frostfire, I don't see an MD in your profile? You go and get a MD and didn't tell anyone?:munchin
If not keep the medical opinion to your field of expertise. I've worked in an ER also and have seen women with UTI's but as for what causes them I've no idea.
No MD here but as a female with about 10 years experience in austere conditions both damp and dry for extended periods of time (mostly Africa and Latin America) and 49 years of age, I can safely say -- no UTIs -- ever. So maybe that is a dead thread unless an actual MD has empirical evidence on it.
I never held a combat MOS, but as a young soldier I would have jumped at the option if I thought I could be of use. I say this because I knew that an exception for one competent woman might make the military need to deal with 10-fold incompetent ones so perhaps not worth the collective effort to open up combat arms to females.
One thought for the active duty QPs to consider. You are in jobs and situations that are extraordinary. Your challenges may occasionally be better served with a female attached to your team. The better trained they are and the better understand what you need from them, the better (IMHO) your chance of success in the mission.
Again, as a female soldier who qualified on a 50 cal, it seems like an unusual use of resource to take a female CA and put her on a 50 cal and expect her to perform equally to a combat MOS QP, but maybe a good thing to be able to support.
Just a few thoughts after reading this thread. Happy Easter, all -- especially to those deployed. Stay safe.
Surgicalcric
04-24-2011, 15:33
...it seems like an unusual use of resource to take a female CA and put her on a 50 cal and expect her to perform equally to a combat MOS QP, but maybe a good thing to be able to support...
We shouldn't expect those who are outside the wire with us to perform to the same standards? I cant believe that was said...
If they (women wanting to be attached to SOF, of every flavor) want to be with the guys on combat patrols they should expect to be tested and be capable performing certain tasks just like the men (ie: firing the crew served weapons systems, barrel changes, reloading, timing/head-spacing, firing their individually assigned weapons, buddy carries, etc...) If they cannot perform they are no longer an asset, regardless of what super-duper female only skills they think they possess, but are a liability.
This same standard applies to the male support personnel who think they have what it takes...
One standard!
Crip
Team Sergeant
04-24-2011, 17:50
No MD here but as a female with about 10 years experience in austere conditions both damp and dry for extended periods of time (mostly Africa and Latin America) and 49 years of age, I can safely say -- no UTIs -- ever. So maybe that is a dead thread unless an actual MD has empirical evidence on it.
I never held a combat MOS, but as a young soldier I would have jumped at the option if I thought I could be of use. I say this because I knew that an exception for one competent woman might make the military need to deal with 10-fold incompetent ones so perhaps not worth the collective effort to open up combat arms to females.
One thought for the active duty QPs to consider. You are in jobs and situations that are extraordinary. Your challenges may occasionally be better served with a female attached to your team. The better trained they are and the better understand what you need from them, the better (IMHO) your chance of success in the mission.
Again, as a female soldier who qualified on a 50 cal, it seems like an unusual use of resource to take a female CA and put her on a 50 cal and expect her to perform equally to a combat MOS QP, but maybe a good thing to be able to support.
Just a few thoughts after reading this thread. Happy Easter, all -- especially to those deployed. Stay safe.
I can teach a 10 year old how to shoot a .50, drop mortars, or how to emplace a claymore. What they would lack and most non-combantants lack is the mindset to kill. And not just kill but to bring the fight to the enemy and make him die for his cause and his country.
Being able to fire a weapon does not make one a warrior. We have discussed this on this board before, and most agree, the training for warriors actually starts at a very young age. It's part of a mindset, that you either have or have not. ;)
frostfire
04-25-2011, 12:13
frostfire, I don't see an MD in your profile? You go and get a MD and didn't tell anyone?:munchin
If not keep the medical opinion to your field of expertise. I've worked in an ER also and have seen women with UTI's but as for what causes them I've no idea.
TS, with all due respect, MD or not, it is within my field of expertise. Pathophysiology is part of my education, training, and daily practice. Additionally, I have to educate soldiers on preventative measures. Thus, knowing causal factors is necessary for a competent educator.
Having said that, and in response to Angelsix, yes, I must admit I made a case of correlation equals causation. My mistake.
Nevertheless, UTI is more prevalent in women than men. That is an empirical fact.
"Causes of a Urine Infections/Urinary Tract Infections
This bacterium normally resides in the bowel but will cause the symptoms of urinary tract infections if it manages to reach the bladder via the urethra (tube that transports urine from the bladder outside of the body). The reason it is so much more common in women over men, is that the urethra is much shorter in women and the opening is closer to the anus than it is in men."
http://www.d-mannose.me.uk/urinary-tract-infection.htm
http://www.urologycentersalabama.com/uca-urology-topicsUrinaryTractInfection.php
http://www.videomd.com/WhyDoWomenGetMoreUTIsThanMen-fv-2530.aspx
And how it relates to combat (as opposed to swampy) environment:
"OIF/OEF deployed female Soldiers have nearly twice as many GU health problems as those at home duty stations"
http://www.4militarywomen.org/WIM09Presentations/Steele.pdf
"Urinary tract infection was another frequent diagnosis, especially in the field."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3103020
Utah Bob
04-26-2011, 16:14
[QUOTE=Dozer523;386885] Even as the SECNAVY acknowledges (you go gurl) the problem may be meeting the physical standard of being a SEAL.
I don't know about that,especially after seeing Demi doing those "one handed push- ups",can't tell me that broad wasn't in damn good shape......... :eek:
Big Teddy :munchin
Stunt triceps. ;)
"I swear, that cruise liner was not parked when I backed the carrier into it"
IMO, mission and proven capabilities should dictate who goes and who stays.
Richard