View Full Version : Radicalized American Muslims
http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/12/20/incoming-house-homeland-security-chair-plans-hearings-muslim-radicalization
Representative Peter King (R-NY) says he'll call for hearings into the radicalization of Muslim Americans when he takes over as chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security in the new congressional term.
In an interview on FOX's "America Live," King said "We have to break through this politically correct nonsense which keeps us from debating and discussing what I think is one of the most vitally important issues in this country. We are under siege by Muslim terrorists and yet there are Muslim leaders in this country who do not cooperate with law enforcement."
And he also notes a rise in terrorist recruitment in the United States saying, "We have the reality that Al-Qaida is trying to recruit Muslim-Americans, and yet we have people in the Muslim community who refuse to face up to this."
King cites foiled terror plots to bomb Times Square and the New York Subway, the 2009 Fort Hood shootings, and arrests of who he calls "homegrown Muslim terrorists" in Texas, Chicago, Virginia, New Jersey, San Diego and Portland, Oregon as examples of the type of radicalization on which the hearings would focus.
But some Muslim groups have said such hearings would be an anti-Muslim witch hunt and lead to an era of McCarthy-type hearings.
"Rep. King has dedicated years of his career peddling extremist rhetoric and baseless claims concerning the Muslim community and its leadership," said Faiza Ali, community affairs director of the New York chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations. "Instead of promoting counterproductive strategies that risk alienating partners within the community, Rep. King would better serve our nation if he actually engaged mainstream American Muslim leaders and organizations on issues related to national security."
But the congressman says he'll use the hearings to drill deeper into the divisive issue and points out that Muslims themselves are most susceptible to being victims of terrorism. "The immediate victims are Muslims themselves, whose sons and daughters could end up being killed as suicide bombers," he said.
Good, glad to hear it.
But some Muslim groups have said such hearings would be an anti-Muslim witch hunt and lead to an era of McCarthy-type hearings.
So why is it that no one remembers that McCarthy was right?
Good, glad to hear it.
So why is it that no one remembers that McCarthy was right?
Perhaps the biggest recruiting source for radical Muslims is in the prisons. This is a huge problem which is not receiving the attention it deserves and will bite us in the ass if we don't address it.
and yes, Joe McCarthy was right....jd
So why is it that no one remembers that McCarthy was right?
He was certainly right you can gain political prominence by playing on the fears of the American people.
He was certainly right you can gain political prominence by playing on the fears of the American people.
I was preparing an argument, but I checked your profile, and saw that you live in San Francisco.
I exercise frequently, but not in futility.
:D
He was certainly right you can gain political prominence by playing on the fears of the American people.
Are you categorizing those who find Islamic supremacism distasteful, as well as those who have legitimate concerns over the Global threat of Jihad, as fear mongers?
I was preparing an argument, but I checked your profile, and saw that you live in San Francisco. I exercise frequently, but not in futility.
Robert Heinlein once wrote, " I never learned from a man who agreed with me."
FWIW, as an Army brat my formative years were spent in the vicinity of Ft. Sam Houston, TX, and the metropolis know as St. Joseph, Missouri. To my surprise there are stereotypes about those regions as well.
I would very much like to hear your argument on this topic, if it is possible to overlook my proximity to Beserkeley and affinity for the World Series Champion San Francisco Giants....;)
Are you categorizing those who find Islamic supremacism distasteful, as well as those who have legitimate concerns over the Global threat of Jihad, as fear mongers?
T-Rock,
No, not in the least, I generally agree with Rep. King and share concerns about global jihad. A wise Irishman once said, " Only two types of people are really fascinating, those who know everything, and those who know nothing." Most of us, myself included fall somewhere in the middle. I know a few things, the Emancipation Proclamation was a good thing, getting my girlfriend a vacuum cleaner for Xmas is a bad idea, and if you outlaw guns only outlaws have guns.
I do not know if Sen. Joe McCarthy was right. The tactic of labeling political opponents subversives or worse was old in the days of ostracism in Athens. Case in modern point, the whimsical argument obviously anyone who criticizes Obama must be a racist. On the one hand the Soviets were certainly spying on us, and as recent events demonstrated the Russians still do. On the other hand fortunately in this country breaking the law is illegal, not differences in opinion.
IMHO conspiracy on such a grand scale requires a sustained level of competence I am not young enough to believe in. McCarthy's net impact, whatever his motivations, resulted in targeting and adversely affecting a great number of Americans who weren't subversives, and damaged the very fabric of our democracy and freedoms. I believe while we should vigorously combat both the internal and external threats of Islamists, without precision and discipline, we risk falling into witch hunts that only help our enemies, CAIR included.
............I do not know if Sen. Joe McCarthy was right.......
And that is why it would be hard to have a discussion about him with you. You believe what you were told.
His ideas were proved right. The libs of the day and the MSM painted him as a nutcase - and many to this day believe he was - but he was right about the level of infiltration by the Communists.
He might have gone about his "cure" in the wrong way but in a way it did awaken America to a threat.
And that is why it would be hard to have a discussion about him with you. You believe what you were told.
His ideas were proved right. The libs of the day and the MSM painted him as a nutcase - and many to this day believe he was - but he was right about the level of infiltration by the Communists.
He might have gone about his "cure" in the wrong way but in a way it did awaken America to a threat.
akv;
Sorry I didn't get back to you last night. I go to bed early-chickens.
One of the incidents I believe Pete refers to is the VENONA "assault", and how it relates to McCarthy.
To understand better the correct perspective on McCarthy, using Google or your favorite search engine, correlate the information you find there as pertains to operation VENONA with the admonishments of McCarthy, and it will give us a good basis for discussion; as of right now you seem to be somewhat uninformed on the subject.
I do not know if Sen. Joe McCarthy was right.
I’m of the opinion both Yuri Bezmenov and Joe McCarthy were right…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LacINAOTQ4I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4k6b1_YG3Y
And I believe Representative Peter King is right too…
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=us-special-envoy-to-oic-lauds-turkeys-imam-hatip-system-2010-12-09
http://www.meforum.org/2045/fethullah-gulens-grand-ambition
First taxpayer funded Gulen school in Hawaii
http://mokapustemschool.org/
http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2010/12/madrassa-pops-up-on-us-marine-base-.html
:munchin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFOnv3xiKPU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQLIa-p7xNs
Facts concerning VENONA can be found here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20060614231955/http://www.nsa.gov/publications/publi00039.cfm
The debate of what VENONA reveals and does not reveal continues among those analyzing its contents and Historians.
As far as Senator McCarthy goes, the man was a political opportunist whose self-aggrandizing grandstanding and rabid bullying tactics possibly did far more harm to our on-going efforts to combat the actual threats presented by the former Soviet Union than have yet to be identified and studied by Historians - not to mention the dangerously unnecessary threat to American civil liberties his antics actively promoted.
Being a little bit correct neither makes him correct in much that he said or did, nor does it make what he did 'right'...and to view the behavior of Joe McCarthy to have been similar to that of a Paul Revere like figure was as dangerously misleading then as it would be today.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Should folks like Keith Ellison and Jihad Saleh Williams, the coordinator for the Congressional Muslim Staffers Association, who vetted Obama’s affirmative action program to get more Muslims into the White House, be afforded the luxury of having a hand in vetting those appointed to key security posts?
Facts concerning VENONA can be found here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20060614231955/http://www.nsa.gov/publications/publi00039.cfm
The debate of what VENONA reveals and does not reveal continues among those analyzing its contents and Historians.
As far as Senator McCarthy goes, the man was a political opportunist whose self-aggrandizing grandstanding and rabid bullying tactics possibly did far more harm to our on-going efforts to combat the actual threats presented by the former Soviet Union than have yet to be identified and studied by Historians - not to mention the dangerously unnecessary threat to American civil liberties his antics actively promoted.
Being a little bit correct neither makes him correct in much that he said or did, nor does it make what he did 'right'...and to view the behavior of Joe McCarthy to have been similar to that of a Paul Revere like figure was as dangerously misleading then as it would be today.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Thanks for the link....
McCarthy's tactics ultimately did more damage than success to the efforts to stop communist infiltration, that's not in doubt and not the premise of this point. As a politician his tactics could never have had the impact needed precisely because too often politicians work their public forums where self aggrandizing is a way of life. McCarthy should have been shut down thereby allowing other agencies the ability to address the issues successfully.
Otherwise, what I'm suggesting and what I believe others are suggesting is that the issue itself, “communist infiltration throughout the US infrastructure”, was legit and needed to be addressed. As a result of McCarthy's tactics, he himself became the focus of scorn more so than the issues he tried to address, all to the benefit of the communist agenda. I for one do not equate Joe McCarthy to Paul Revere. I don't equate him to be a Benidict Arnold either....jd
...the issue itself, “communist infiltration throughout the US infrastructure”, was legit and needed to be addressed.
Nobody was denying that issue and, as the VERONA files have shown, we knew all that and the matter was being addressed...as was their addressing our efforts to infiltrate their infrastructure.
But IMO giving McCarthy any sort of credit for his flagrantly exploiting the obvious in the way he did only gives legitimacy to his actions and fosters an acceptance of them with which I disagree.
Richard
.........But IMO giving McCarthy any sort of credit for his flagrantly exploiting the obvious in the way he did only gives legitimacy to his actions and fosters an acceptance of them with which I disagree.
Richard
Communism was so hip with the snob crowd before McCarthy - not so much after. I'll give him dredit for that. He shined the light on the roaches.
Kinda like eco-terror is hip with the save the world folks these days.
If my house is on fire, I appreciate your yelling "Fire"; I'm unconcerned with your technique.
http://www.amazon.com/Blacklisted-History-Senator-McCarthy-Americas/dp/140008105X/ref=sr_1_1/104-9033580-9419151?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194476941&sr=1-1
The above link is an ad for a great book on the subject. "McCarthyism" is a liberal/conservative point of contention nearly as polarizing as abortion.
The "fire" metaphor really doesn't accurately portray the situation because it completely disregards the damage caused to innocent citizens and the fundamental principles/rights from McCarthyism. Nobody is negatively affected when someone yells "fire" and there is actually a fire in the house.
The big issue is determining whether or not McCarthy's method and resultant success is worth the cost of the adverse effects on the citizens who were innocent as well as the challenges to citizen's rights and the justice system caused by focusing on accusations without proof. I don't know the answer to that. But, I would argue that due to the polarizing nature of McCarthy's tactics the US did in fact benefit by propelling the Supreme Court, which wrote a series of decisions that improved civil liberties through the late 50's and into the 60's after the McCarthy era.
Nobody was denying that issue and, as the VERONA files have shown, we knew all that and the matter was being addressed...as was their addressing our efforts to infiltrate their infrastructure.
But IMO giving McCarthy any sort of credit for his flagrantly exploiting the obvious in the way he did only gives legitimacy to his actions and fosters an acceptance of them with which I disagree.
Richard
Indeed much was known and speculated about communist activities and intentions. Not so much though was being done, especially as far as the Republicans were concerned at that time. Under the Roosevelt and Truman admins the Soviets had pretty much been given Eastern Europe after the war; China had just fallen to Mao; we were caught completely flat footed in Korea; and Alger Hiss and the Rosenburgs were busted for spying for the Soviets. Most Republicans and many Dems including the Kennedys thought the world was going to hell in a handbasket and were very happy to let McCarthy take point on subversive activities issues. Unfortunately, they too should have been looking into the evidence, as well as the loose cannon leveling the charges, McCarthy. Ultimately, a public spectacle was made and eventually crushed because the man on point was out there flappin, and nobody reeled him in.
I doubt anyone desires giving legitimacy to his methods and I would concede that this could be construed. Also, I wouldn’t want to be seen as a McCarthyite or a champion for his methods. But, McCarthy led flawed charges over legitimate concerns.
I just hope AG Holder (ugh) keeps things in perspective regarding radical muslims, and other concerns....jd
greenberetTFS
12-21-2010, 12:49
I just hope AG Holder (ugh) keeps things in perspective regarding radical muslims, and other concerns....jd
Will never happen!......... :mad: I also thoroughly agree with Richard!.........;)
Big Teddy :munchin
LongWire
12-21-2010, 13:32
From reports from my wife who flew from Seatac to Vegas last week, we are being tested!!!!!
Some things happened on her plane that went unreported let alone unaddressed because the cause was by a Muslim female. The Flight attendant specifically told my wife that it happens all the time, they can not say anything because it would be profiling and that we are being tested!!!!!!
Dusty and Pete,
As mentioned the VENONA documented the real threat of Soviet espionage. It was the Cold War, and both sides were fighting to win. As both Uplink5 and Richard posted, McCarthy's bullying tactics even if you give his motives the benefit of the doubt did a great deal of harm, VENONA confirms we already knew what the Soviets were up to and were addressing it. If anything, actual subversives caught in the net, those who were truly dangerous, could have escaped further scrutiny due to the public's distaste for witch hunts. The breadth of those he targeted and accused is staggering. Frankly it makes sense the KGB/GRU would recruit from the American Communist Party, I am less sympathetic to liberals in Hollywood, but this does not justify violating their civil rights. McCarthy also went after the US Army, in some cases even the defense attorneys of those he targeted and reporters who disagreed with him among others. Ironically for someone targeting communist infiltration, his tactics mirrored exactly those of a zealous commissar. The granolas are always protesting something, but what's telling is the censure he received from the conservative sources and factions in America.
Dusty I hear your fire analogy, IMHO there is a difference between yelling fire, or hollowing out the supporting pillars of a man's house to install smoke detectors laced with TNT. We are judged by our actions not our intentions.
You guys, thanks for clearing stuff up about McCarthy. Glad to know the government had things well in hand and we had nothing to worry about.
I guess I can stop worrying about radical Islam in the US. The government is on the job and taking care of things.
I've researched the issue extensively, and have determined for myself that the persecution of McCarthy was unnecessary and that his warnings were indeed grounded in fact.
Both sides of the issue have been disinformed to some extent, but regardless of what is reported about him regarding his technique, I think he's been unfairly trashed, and actually did the Country a great service.
You can call me a weird motherfucker if you want to.
Incidentally, you'd be right in several regards.
Non-sexual, of course. :D
He was certainly right you can gain political prominence by playing on the fears of the American people.
Not what I meant, but enough folks have already addressed it. I was referring to the fact that...Yes, Virginia, there were communists in Hollywood. And elsewhere.
You can call me a weird motherfucker if you want to.
Incidentally, you'd be right in several regards.
Non-sexual, of course. :D
You're on a roll. :p